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What do you think the threshold for the actions we see from the government should be

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posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 03:08 AM
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First let me say no matter how many other threads you started this one is asking the HARD LOGICAL question that most sides of this discussion REALLY DONT WANT TO CONSIDER much less answer.

because that would remove two factors/lines of thought that IMO SHOULD NOT be used.

One is EMOTION and two is "unsubstantiated PREDICTIONS"

First alot of comments and justifications used are based on pure emotion. Like "how can you be against old or young people", "how can you be ok with more deaths", "how can you not want to protect your family " and other such things.

Look people are GONNA DIE. In fact alot of diseases like "the common flu" kill over 61 THOUSAND people a year and we dont bat an eye or take actions like this.

right now as of 2:44am CST the current infected IN US count is 104,256 and deaths is 1,704.

in world the infected count is 598,094 and deaths is 27,371.

with this lead in I go to point two UNSUBSTANTIATED PREDICTIONS

We are CONSTANTLY being bombarded with PREDICTIONS of "10 percent deaths in the millions", "hospitals overwhelmed", ect and this is used as continued justification for the draconian actions CURRENTLY BEING TAKEN.

before we go further let me say at first when we DIDNT KNOW anything about corvid19 the initial actions of travel bans and stopping people at the boarder was quite justifed.

but now since we KNOW HARD FACTS not only of what this disease is, who is most vulnerable (and WHY) , and most important, CONSTANT HARD NUMBERS updated DAILY .

I use this site www.worldometers.info...

we can also go back and follow trends AS THEY HAPPENED, why most people died (factors of some type) , and compare them to the "predictions"

but yet we STILL CONTINUE to use the same predictions that have NOT COME TRUE under "we havent seen all of it yet"

well I have a calculator on my computer and phone and can take HARD NUMBERS to see what the percentage is.

Now add we can look up other pathogens that while not in same virus family (so PLEASE STOP SAYING IT ISNT THE FLU AS A DEFENSE) have the SAME EFFECT and in some cases covid is less harmful to the young and healthy than the common flu.

we can then go to the uncomfortable TRUTH is the numbers of the corvid19 are NO WHERE NEAR the numbers of the common flu that happens every YEAR in the US alone.
the numbers of infected, hospitalized, and deaths in the US are not even close to the world totals much less the local totals.

then the harder question (as you ask gambler) is how do you justify over 61 THOUSAND people DYING and . CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations.

but we didnt claim "medical facilities overwhelmed" , "shortage of ventilators", and we needed to stay in place/quarantine/shut down all non essential business/six foot rule/police enforcement of state gov orders, ect.

but on the hard data of in USA 104,256 and deaths is 1,704 we take all these actions.

In fact when one actually (as revealed by the latest press conference from the white house) the claims of medical being overwhelmed is not true in alot of areas and further how many are really needing aid vs the panic. but I digress.

The end result is not if but HOW MANY jobs are lost, businesses closed down, and even harder FUTURE CUTS/TAXES to make up for the money in the stimulus package.

along with there is no REASONABLE WAY you can say the economy is just gonna "spring back" anytime soon.

so back to your quesiton... how many deaths are worth it.

the cold hard truth is it isnt how many ACTUAL deaths or hospitalizations are you willing to take

but far worse and unconfortable.

how many lives (economically, educationally, and businesses) in the MILLIONS are you hurting/destroying based not on HARD ACTUAL NUMBERS but on a particular disease.

If its the common flu...61 THOUSAND people DYING and . CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations.

many are and the local , state , and federal are ok with it

if its corvid19 the actual numbers (with rates of new staying IN USA pretty constant of infected/mortality of less than 1 percent) USA 104,256 and deaths is 1,704 those deaths alone are more important.

or more bluntly/anti pic.

you look into your loved ones faces and say if you sick or die from the common flu, you are not important.

scrounger




posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ScepticScot



How many deaths are you willing to accept before action? Or are you not willing to answer your own question?


actually you have answered your own question and dont even realize it..

you personally (by your comments and lack thereof in the past) show that YOU ARE OK with 61,000 DEATHS IN USA as long as its the common flu.

but if its the corvid19 with USA deaths is 1,704 it isnt acceptable.

even taking into account there WILL BE more deaths by ACTUAL GROWTH RATE of infected vs death wont even come close in USA to the common flu.

common logic dictates it isnt the amount for you BUT THE ACTUAL DISEASE , based not on actual numbers but faulty predictions.

or more bluntly
sorry XX relative, you died from common flu... it isnt that bad
XY relative you died from corvid19... stop everything in the USA and to hell with who living it hurts.

scrounger



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: scrounger

Thank God you exist on the internet and not in real life. Big talk.



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 03:29 AM
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originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: scrounger

Thank God you exist on the internet and not in real life. Big talk.




Meh, trump supporters they're special.
edit on 28-3-2020 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 03:39 AM
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Well, I think the answer is simple. As long as they SAY they know a lil something about a lil something, sound super smarts about it and they can produce sooper dooper official ID cards to back it up, we should obv let them take away as many freedoms as they want.



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 03:58 AM
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I want to bash the government and preach less governmental power...but when I need the government I want to ask why they are not better prepared and stronger.

Dont Rely on the government is what eveyone says

Until you have to....



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: scrounger

Thank God you exist on the internet and not in real life. Big talk.



now that you got that off your chest do you feel better?

good

now tell me EXACTLY point by point what you find wrong?

I presented HARD VERIFIABLE FACTS along with one exact reference where those facts come from

then pointed out that a common flu death is not held in same regard as corvid19 death.

you got (whats that word) triggered and decided spewing emotional rant substitutes for debate

scrounger



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: Bloodworth
I want to bash the government and preach less governmental power...but when I need the government I want to ask why they are not better prepared and stronger.

Dont Rely on the government is what eveyone says

Until you have to....




If this all goes pair shaped what exactly do you think your government can do for you ?



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:01 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: scrounger

Thank God you exist on the internet and not in real life. Big talk.




Meh, trump supporters their special.


um exactly where did i mention trump in my comment?

oh thats right

throw out "trump" like other overplayed cards and expect to be taken seriously.

smh

scrounger



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:04 AM
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a reply to: scrounger

We're supposed to believe that with your capitols mixed in with your rant you're not an emotional wreck?

It's a hard time for all us matey, chill.



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:06 AM
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originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: scrounger

Thank God you exist on the internet and not in real life. Big talk.




Meh, trump supporters their special.


um exactly where did i mention trump in my comment?

oh thats right

throw out "trump" like other overplayed cards and expect to be taken seriously.

smh

scrounger



This time seems to be hitting trump supporters the hardest right now as they've been led to believe this is a nothing burger until now.



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:08 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: scrounger

We're supposed to believe that with your capitols mixed in with your rant you're not an emotional wreck?

It's a hard time for all us matey, chill.


sigh

again not debating on points presented

just a rambling diatribe with personal attack

sad really sad

your better than this
or is it you cant debate the facts so go with the attack

or just a troll?

hmmmm

scrounger



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:11 AM
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a reply to: scrounger

Debate with you, lol good one...



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:12 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Bloodworth
I want to bash the government and preach less governmental power...but when I need the government I want to ask why they are not better prepared and stronger.

Dont Rely on the government is what eveyone says

Until you have to....




If this all goes pair shaped what exactly do you think your government can do for you ?


What they can and cant do is one thing..
Can those bastards be trusted though.

I just find it strange so many politicians have gone on the air and stated things about the virus like they are facts.
In my experience, within the 1st month, one cannot make any determination because there just has not been enough time.
It takes months .
I have a friend who works statistics for stuff like this and has been asked to map and come up with details about death statistics in NYC.
I asked how things are going, are things going up or down.
She said to get any accuracy and to see when this things declines she would need more time and more numbers.
As of now you cannot determine a spike or decline, too early..



posted on Mar, 28 2020 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: Bloodworth

Im not taking any stock in what those Muppets are saying, I listen to know what they are saying but any judgement I make is based on the medical professionals take on it and it ain't pretty, one of my family is a surgeon on the front lines and he ain't mincing words, it's bad, we need to be vigilant right now, those talking heads only care about the bottom line, the economy. You and I are numbers on a screen and are collateral damage to our elected leaders when they mess up.
edit on 28-3-2020 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



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