There is something i cant quite comprehend. How is it that religion, christianity to be more specific doesnt allow abortions when GOd himself, with his MASTERPLAN, does it all the time?????

How many people have had miscarriages? This is only regarding people who have had them without any reason. How is it that people who go in for an abortion get flamed,but when GOD decides to flush a fetus down the toilet everyone jsut says " Oh thats ok.....lets try again" or "GOD knows what he is doing"

Someone please explain the difference between the two cuz i am totally confused.

From what I understand (which admittedly isn't much when it comes to female repro) is that miscarriages are mainly the result of medical and/or biological abnormalities. Abortion on the other hand is the purposeful termination of a pregnancy, the taking of a life, in the minds of anti-abortion supporters. Which, in Christianity, violates one of the ten commandments.

There are several mentions in the Bible of God preventing women from having babies.

Genesis 20:18 - For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.

1 Samuel 1:5,6 - But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb. And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.

Ezekiel 20:26 - And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

Or killing or allowing killing of young children even from the womb.

Isaiah 13:18 - Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

Hosea 9:14-17 - Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.

Not to say I condone abortion, Just to state there is a type of precedence in the Bible.

Phae

I was reading the explanation saying that these occurances are medical as abortions are intentional. This is true in reality. But! What you need to understand is that christianity is not reality. In their minds, God creates every individual life, and terminates them as well at his choice of time.

That means, if God chooses to kill a baby in the mothers womb...which he must do according to the insane christian belief system, then it would be an abortion in our definition. An intentional kill. After all, god makes those decisions 100% of the time. So, what is the difference between, GODS ABORTION, and ours?

That is the point of this thread started by ludacris.

Now, I want to add something. I am not a woman. However, I do not support abortion at all. Unfortuneatly it is of my opinion that abortion is one of those rare situations, where anyone with a right mind can see where a woman may be better off after having one. If a birth was to result in her own death, if the birth was the result of rape...ect. Anyone can comprimise at some point when it comes to this issue. In reality, the first response was correct, that abortion is intentional while a miscarraige is medical and not by choice (usually). But that is reality, and christian minds do not reside in reality.

Originally posted by Phaethor
Not to say I condone abortion, Just to state there is a type of precedence in the Bible.

Phae

Nor do I condone eating a dung sandwich... but uh when in Rome.

Isa 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? [hath he] not [sent me] to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

Originally posted by Partyof1
From what I understand (which admittedly isn't much when it comes to female repro) is that miscarriages are mainly the result of medical and/or biological abnormalities.

Not always. That's what's told to grieving parents to help them get through the loss... but medical science can't always find a reason for a death.

Another HORRIBLE tragedy is when the baby gets the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck and strangles in the womb. I read about one of those a few days ago ... we have our first grandbaby due soon and that story has just haunted me. These aren't that uncommon.

Before modern medicine, many more mothers (and babies) died from things like this.

Originally posted by RANT

Nor do I condone eating a dung sandwich... but uh when in Rome.

Isa 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? [hath he] not [sent me] to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

That is just sick. But truly the Bible says many things. There are those that simply state that the Bible says killing children in the womb is wrong but there are cases where it was done. And obviously eating ones own dung as well.

Phae

I find it amazing that people try to measure God to mere men. God is just in his punishment, and abounding in Love.

LuDaCrIs, how are we suppsoe to know that the miscarriage was not the result, or punishment for an ealier sin, like adultery?

We do not know Gods will, nor will mere mortals ever be able to.

Abortion is differnat because people try to "Play God" in taking a life for thier own selfish reasons. in fact, a majority of abortions are used as a form of Birth control. I talked to one person who fools around a lot, and when a girl comes up to him saying she's pregnant, he gives her $50 and tells her to go to the "Chop shop".

With the rise of casuel sex, and the irresponsibility of youth this has become a major problem. But I personally have a spiritual delemma of allowing for legislation to Ban abortion which will open up unregulated back alley abortian clinics.

Originally posted by Jehosephat

LuDaCrIs, how are we suppsoe to know that the miscarriage was not the result, or punishment for an ealier sin, like adultery?

We do not know Gods will, nor will mere mortals ever be able to.

God is a fair and loving being....am i right?

Why is it that a baby fetus has to suffer and get aborted when the adult has done the sin? What does that fetus have to do with anything???? The fact of the matter is: GOD creates that fetus, and then he decides to jsut flush it. Why even bother creating it in the first place? How can you possibly think this is fair or loving for that matter.

for all we know that fetus could be granted an early entrance to heaven. we simple do not know and making any assumptions is just to show you own arrogance

Jehosephat, you sound ridiculous.

How do YOU know it isn't God's will to KILL the unborn? Why doesn't the "we don't know God's plan" go both ways, HMMM??

My point is that you can't speculate on God's will one way or the other, so your doing so is ridiculous.

As for the "possible punishment for earlier sin," why punish the unborn one? I bet you would also say that aborting the product of a rape is wrong, so what's the difference? More bass ackwards Christian logic...

Simple, textbook answer that i cant beleive isnt here already:

God works in Mysterious Ways!

Obviously total crap, but provides a get out clause for every atrocity that happens.

Originally posted by truthseeka
How do YOU know it isn't God's will to KILL the unborn? Why doesn't the "we don't know God's plan" go both ways, HMMM??

My point is that you can't speculate on God's will one way or the other, so your doing so is ridiculous.

As for the "possible punishment for earlier sin," why punish the unborn one? I bet you would also say that aborting the product of a rape is wrong, so what's the difference? More bass ackwards Christian logic...

No it is perfect christian Logic that ever kid learns at confirmation.

1. The basics most everyone has trouble understanding is that God works to bring people to faith, while others choose to reject him and go to hell. God does not cause people to Go to hell. All we know is that God is just, and any punishment that is handed out is deserved.

2. I can certainly specualte a lot more then you can since I have studied the bible and can use exmaples from taht to make an opinion or statement of fact

3. Punishment for earlier sin is for the Original sin, or the Sin that Adam and Eve performed in the garden of Eden. No one can escape it, unless they turn to the faith.

4. Yes, choosing abortion in ANY case is wrong.

The differnace is allowing Sinners to perform the act, or to allow God who is without sin, nor causes sin to act.

in the christian faith abortion is considered murder. it is not right to compar it to miss carrages because taht would be like comparing a serial murder to a man getting cancer. misscarrags and such are a natural occarance this by no means can be compared to abortion. i myself have no real opion on abrtion but i do belive that comparing it to the lord's divine plan is very wrong.

Well God committed worse than abortion, he allowed a child to be born and because of the father's sin; raping a woman married to someone else, God decided to punish the father and mother by killing the child.

Obviously he does not see the spawn of a rapist in the same light as the anti-abortionists.

David and Bath-Sheba.

Originally posted by takemeout
it is not right to compar it to miss carrages because taht would be like comparing a serial murder to a man getting cancer. misscarrags and such are a natural occarance this by no means can be compared to abortion. i myself have no real opion on abrtion but i do belive that comparing it to the lord's divine plan is very wrong.

How exactly is a miscarriage a "natural occurance" and seperate from GOD's divine plan. Isnt the miscarriage part of that divine plan?

I dont understand your reasoning.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Obviously he does not see the spawn of a rapist in the same light as the anti-abortionists.

David and Bath-Sheba.

That was about David's conspiring to Murder and commiting adultery. As punishment the offspring was taken by God away from David, even tho david repented.

Ludacris, you are trying to portray misscarriges as God performing abortian. In a sense putting God at fault for commiting aboritions. God does not commit sin, it might seem like adouble standered to you becasue it is if you try to bring God to the level of humans.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Ludacris, you are trying to portray misscarriges as God performing abortian. In a sense putting God at fault for commiting aboritions. God does not commit sin, it might seem like adouble standered to you becasue it is if you try to bring God to the level of humans.

Thats exactly wat i am trying to say. You have shown me no reason to beleive its no true other than saying its GOD; he doesnt commit sin. It most definetly is a double standard. Does anyone else here agreee???

Well, Jehosephat, I don't remember where in the bible I read this, but I read a passage where God REPENTED! Now how does someone who never sins repents?

And as for the natural explanation, I thought that God created nature? By that logic, if your loved one gets sick, you shouldn't pray for them because it is natural and out of God's hands. Like I said, more bass ackwards logic...