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Some things that many Christians believe of "Lucifer" are similar to Christ in The Gospel of John

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posted on Mar, 23 2020 @ 09:38 PM
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Lucifer came down from Heaven as Light


"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." - John 3:13


"What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" - John 6:62


"I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness." - John 12:46



Lucifer claims to be God


"Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" - John 14:8-9


"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." - John 10:33



Lucifer does not agree with Yahweh-Jehovah and does not follow his commandments


"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day." - John 5:16

"Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them." - John 9:16


"Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? ...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - John 8:5-7



The old testament god did not want human beings to eat the fruit and have knowledge of good and evil nor to eat the fruit of life to have eternal life according to Genesis 3:22-24, but according to The Gospel of John, Christ wanted people to know the difference between good and evil and to never die:


"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." - John 3:20


"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." - John. 7:7


"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." - John 8:12


"...I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" - John 11:25-26



Let's not forget that the serpent said this:


"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." - Genesis 3:4-5


"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:14-15


Lucifer speaks of a newer view of God rather than the Yahweh-Jehovah old testament based view



"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." - John 1:18


"All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." - John 10:8-9


"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6


"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?' Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." - John 14:9-10


"O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me." - John 17:25


"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." - John 18:36


The old testament god is a man of war (Exodus 15:3), but Christ says that His Kingdom is not of the world or His Servants would have fought to defend Him from being handed over by The Jews to be Crucified (John 18:36)


Christ says that He gives a New Commandment and that His Disciples are known by their Love one another (John 13:34-35), not by violence or stoning people as the old testament commands.




If you tell Christians that your God is The God of Light who came down from Heaven as a Being of Light, into the world of darkness to bear Light and be The Light of The World and to help people become Children of The Light (John 12:36) and to teach people to Love Others and to teach people to ignore following the violence in the Old Testament and that The Real God does not teach people to be violent and that those who follow the violence of the old testament and kill people are children of the devil (John 8:44), many might claim that you are tricked by "Lucifer" and not following Christ even though those these things are taught by Christ according to The Gospel of John.


What do you think of these similarities?






posted on Mar, 23 2020 @ 10:22 PM
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It’s pretty jumbled, hard to follow and disorganised
Satan was an angel who fell.

Christ is God who came down to be seen, physically
Satan fell,,was cast out, hides

Jesus told His followers to stop their violence, religion, and to love others
Did Satan say or teach that.

Jesus did follow the Hebrew Mosaic law
Jesus didn’t follow the Pharisees laws, big difference, human laws made in addition to Mosaic law
You need to study that

Jesus healed and forgave sin
Did satan

There is a New Testament covenant
There is a Old Testament covenant
Do you understand that

Christ is coming again, there will be blood, violence and war
It has to all end.
It’s not going to be pretty

The Old Testament God was loving, caring and concerned. War was His last choice.
Go read Jonah, many books show God not wanting to harm people
Today many people, complain God doesn’t, didn’t stop the Nazis, Stalin, ISIS, evil, then complain in the Old Testament when God did stop evil empires



posted on Mar, 23 2020 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman



Christ is God who came down to be seen, physically
Satan fell,,was cast out, hides


The similarity is that many Christians believe that they both came down from Heaven as light and claimed to be God. There is a difference is that one is said to have "fell" while the other was said to have "came down", but my point was that people can easily think that someone was worshipping "Lucifer" and not "Christ" according to their belief systems if they just focus on the similarities.





Jesus did follow the Hebrew Mosaic law



No He didn't, at least not completely, which is one of the reasons why The Jews saw Him as bad:


"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day." - John 5:16


"Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them." - John 9:16


"Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? ...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - John 8:5-7




Jesus healed and forgave sin
Did satan



No, which is why I didn't mention that as a similarity.




There is a New Testament covenant
There is a Old Testament covenant
Do you understand that



I'm aware that there are a collection of writings called "The Old Testament" and a collection of writings which are called "The New Testament".





Christ is coming again, there will be blood, violence and war
It has to all end.
It’s not going to be pretty



Well that's one belief system, usually inspired by the book of revelation, but how does that relate to the topic (similarities between beliefs of Lucifer with beliefs of Christ according to The Gospel of John)?






The Old Testament God was loving, caring and concerned. War was His last choice.




War is not a choice for someone who truly believes in non-violence (teachihgs such as, turn the other cheek, love enemies, forgive, put down the sword for those who pick up the sword will be ended by the sword).





Go read Jonah, many books show God not wanting to harm people
Today many people, complain God doesn’t, didn’t stop the Nazis, Stalin, ISIS, evil, then complain in the Old Testament when God did stop evil empires



Stopping someone or groups of people from harming others, is not the same as genocide and murder. An all-powerful merciful god would know of other options that doesn't include massive suffering and murder.


I don't refer to the old testament god as "God" (with a big G). Anyway, this is sort of going off topic from the original post: similarities between beliefs of Lucifer with beliefs of Christ according to The Gospel of John.


edit on 3-23-2020 by lightofgratitude because: Edited some of the wording of the post



posted on Mar, 23 2020 @ 11:03 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

LOL this is easy to close down, who did the "Christ" see fall from heaven? Keep in mind this takes two different beings...I'll wait

Remember this took place WHILE Christ was already here and was something he seen with his own eyes.

edit on 23-3-2020 by ArchangelOger because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2020 @ 11:33 PM
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The teachings of Jesus were not like Lucifers actions. The Israeli priests worked on the day of rest getting ready for the services, they also preached which was working too.

I see no connection between lucifer and Yashua. Other than they were created by the same supreme consciousness.

Remember, Jesus could communicate with satan, that means he could interpret the language of god and angels. Not many people have that ability, they pray and nobody answers them. Think about What "god is the word, the word that is not spoken means".



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: ArchangelOger




LOL this is easy to close down, who did the "Christ" see fall from heaven?



That story isn't mentioned in The Gospel of John. I think you're confusing The Gospel of John with The Gospel of Luke.



There are similarities between Christ, specifically in The Gospel of John, with some beliefs that some Christians hold about Lucifer (those similarities are mentioned in the original post).



a reply to: rickymouse





The teachings of Jesus were not like Lucifers actions.



So Lucifer obeys Yahweh-Jehovah by obeying The Sabbath and believing in stoning people to death by The Law of Moses? Not according to most Christians' beliefs about Lucifer.



Neither did Jesus (as mentioned in the original post):


"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day." - John 5:16

"Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them." - John 9:16


"Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? ...So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - John 8:5-7




I see no connection between lucifer and Yashua.




The similarities are in the original post. There are similarities between some of people's beliefs about Lucifer and some of the things that The Gospel of John says about Christ.





edit on 3-24-2020 by lightofgratitude because: Fixed spelling errors



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 01:01 AM
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So, what's wrong with Lucifer?

The best place to hide something, is where you know people won't look for it... by making it look like a "demon" or the "devil", they have been able to hide the other side of the story. The occult teachings are aware of this, and there is much about it that is fascinating.


Though associated with Satanism, a philosophy based on the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism differs in that it does not revere merely the devil figure or Satan but the broader figure of Lucifer, an entity representing various interpretations of "the morning star" as understood by ancient cultures such as the Greeks and Egyptians. In this context, Lucifer is a symbol of enlightenment, independence, and human progression and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish Talmudic figure Lilith.

Luciferians generally support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have both positive and negative consequences, and to actively influence one's environment is a key factor.

The Luciferian philosophy in recent years has been defined in a collective foundation, known as the "11 Luciferian Points of Power", authored by Michael W. Ford. The basis of Luciferian philosophy cultivates and encourages individuality, self-determined choices based on strategic application and continually seeking to enhance the Will via overcoming challenges. Luciferianism is philosophically practiced with the continual cycle and process known as Liberation, Illumination and Apotheosis.

For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one's ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration as well as humanity's savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.


Source

I bet a lot of ATS folks would resonate with that last paragraph.


Lucifer wasn't such a bad dude.

~Namaste
edit on 24-3-2020 by SonOfTheLawOfOne because: linky



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 02:05 AM
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This part:
"they shall take up serpents..."

it's about raising the Kundalini, which is actually two snakes that work with each other to unblock the horns(chakras).

The thing about Lucifer or Daystar and Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus Christ, Christ Michael, Christos, the two are supposed to be brothers, put in charge of this 3rd density. However, Krishna is also the same being.
I think they are the same entity, because "All Paths Lead to Me -Krishna to Arjuna – Bhagivad Gita"
Lucifer likes to play with words, so looking at scientology, "thetans",
you wouldn't normally connect these "thetans" unless you say it aloud, which then becomes "Satans", which shows his humor, and at that time, once you know what's going on here, you connect thetans to the people that were on the previous planet, Tiamat's sphere Atlantis, that was hit by a very powerful iron thunderbolt. This created the asteroid field, all those people were thrown into the abyss (space), and we are here to collect them and bring them back.

The Christos even made a way with Buddhism too, Called The “Thunderbolt Vehicle” or “Diamond Vehicle”.

If you want the Raw intelligence you have to embrace all the ancient stuff, it has everything that's missing from being removed, revisioned, misinterpreted, used to weaponize, used to ultimately Confuse, as Confusion is the darkside's truth. such as this: "They will pick up snakes".
which caused people to think speaking in tongues and dancing around with poisonous snakes was a grreat idea.



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 02:15 AM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

It’s pretty clear that you havnt a clue what you are talking about
No discussion, just blat

I can’t be bothered if you can’t use your God given intelligence to understand the basic concepts of Christianity


If you don’t even understand there are 2 covenants, well that reflects poorly on everything else you argue



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but in 2 Peter 1:19, in the old Latin Vulgate Bible, it uses the word "Lucifer" in reference to Jesus Christ and and to "Satan".


2 Peter 1:19 Latin Vulgate:



et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris.



English:



We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:




There were even Christian bishops called Lucifer, such as, Lucifer of Cagliari in Sardinia who was against the heresy of Arianism. Arianists, as well as Muslims, did not believe that a man can be God, so they denied the divinity of Christ, and denied that God can appear in human form. The Easter Prayer (The Exsultet) which is sung in Latin, uses the word "Lucifer" for Christ. Many Christians do not know much about the early history of Christianity.



Those who follow The Light of The World shall have The Light of Life (John 8:12) and shall be Children of The Light (John 12:36). The Sons of Light who follow The Light of The World, The Disciples of Christ are recognized by their Love (John 13:34-35).



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 02:48 AM
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Satan is never referred to as Lucifer in the Bible. The Bible does refer to the ruler of Babylon as Lucifer, or "shining one" "son of the dawn." This prophecy was directed toward Babylon and foretold its fall at the pinnacle of its power to the Medes and Persians.



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 03:46 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman





If you don’t even understand there are 2 covenants, well that reflects poorly on everything else you argue




I didn't deny that there were 2 covenants.


Also, what does that have to do with the similarities mentioned in the original post?



a reply to: ApocalypseRising




Satan is never referred to as Lucifer in the Bible



Jesus is referred to as Lucifer in 2 Peter 1:19 in The Latin Vulgate. That's a bit off topic, though because this is not about "The Bible", this is just about commonly believed things that many Christians believe whether or not it's in The Bible, compared to one book only: The Gospel of John.



This is about The Gospel of John's portrayal of Jesus that are similar to those commonly held believe systems that many people have of "Lucifer".
edit on 3-24-2020 by lightofgratitude because: Added in a quote



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 05:46 AM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

Hebrew and Greek translated into English, your argument is both ignorant and dumb
It’s childish
edit on 24-3-2020 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: lightofgratitude

The similarity is that many Christians believe that they both came down from Heaven as light and claimed to be God.

Seems to me you are just taking things out of context and creating similarities tat either don't exist or are meaningless.

Dahmer and Ghandi are similar. They are both human. They are both said to have eaten food. They are both believed to have breathed air. They also both pissed and crapped. It's Eerily similar.



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude


I hope this isn't too off-topic, but in 2 Peter 1:19, in the old Latin Vulgate Bible, it uses the word "Lucifer" in reference to Jesus Christ and and to "Satan".

You do not understand just as Jerome did not understand as he tried to translate the Hebrew to Latin. The Latin Jerome used was the common Latin of that day which was the Vulgate Latin. Jerome used the Hebrew MSS till he came into the
Psalms and then he had much confusion in understanding much of that work. So this is where Jerome then used the Greek rendition of their MSS to help him understand how to express the Hebrew into Latin. Now this led to the confusion of Psalms 14:12-15 and this confusion led to the word [name] Lucifer.

Lucifer does not exist in the Hebrew MSS and is very misleading. Most Christians are led to believe that Lucifer managed to wage war against The Most High EL and exist in being the Lucifer in the New Testament. Not true at all. Firstly all celestial ones who are against The Most High are Satan's. These Satan's that first rebelled against God are all imprisoned in Sheol till the last day and that includes their leading Satan of all Satan's. Lucifer does not exist nor has he ever existed. Jerome did not understand this and did believe that the Satan of all Satan's was the one that he [Jerome then named Lucifer].

Now I am not saying that there are not Satan's that do influence people even today but they are not the fallen angels of the first rebellion. They are the spirits of the second invasion of the children of the ones called Great Giants or Nephiylim and Eloiuds. These came to us in the days of Jered in the sixth generation of Adam towards the flood of Noah. Jesus did battle Satan's but none of them were a Lucifer. They were an assortment of Satan's just as we have today.
So what is my purpose in this rant? I am trying to explain to you why most all translators have used the Greek rendition of the Satans who were expelled in the Psalms account.

The following is Hebrew to English and not Greek to Latin To English as most all translators have used.

Posted by Dr. Stephen Pidgeon on Thursday, December 15, 2016

Quote
Isaiah 14:12-15
In our decadent, modern world, there are many who claim to be followers of Lucifer. These Luciferian minions (and they are Legion) are convinced they worship the chief fallen watcher – who actually is known by another name, and they believe that their leader Lucifer is identified in Scripture. A little news for the Luciferians: no such name exists in Scripture. The name was inserted by Eusebius to spin a Latin understanding on a difficult Hebrew text.
So you see the text typically set forth as ““How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!”
Compare that with the text as set forth in the Eth Cepher:
Yesha’yahu (Isaiah) 14:12
How are you fallen from heaven, O Heylel, son of the howling morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!
Let’s take a look at the Hebrew, shall we?
14:12 (איך) Eyk (נפלת) naphaloth (משׁמים) ma’shamayim (הילל) heylel (בן) ben (שׁחר) shachar (נגדעת) na’gadaoth (לארץ) l’eretz (חולשׁ) cholash (על) al (גוים) goyim.
Rather than get into the grit of the Hebrew, let’s take a look specifically at the word (הילל) heylel which was the word interpreted by Eusebius as Lucifer (followed 1599 GNV, 1611 KJV, NKJV, DRA, WYC) day-star (followed by ASB, ESV, ISV, Message) or morning star (followed by AMP, CEB, CJB, NASB, NIV).
Only the Orthodox Jewish Bible and the Eth Cepher set forth the name Heylel (Heilel OJB).
It is worth noting that the word (הילל) heylel (Strong’s H1966) appears only once in Scripture, and as a result, we see a construct which is assumed to arise from the root (הָלַל) halal, (Strong’s H1984) meaning to shine, which of course then lends to the conclusion that the word heylel should be described as the shining one, which then becomes the morning star, or the day star. But the word for star in the Hebrew is (כּוֹכָב) kokav (Strong’s H3556).
However, the use of the letter heh (ה) is often a prefix, meaning the. If this is the case in the use of the word (הילל) heylel, this creates the word h’yalael (spelled הילל). This gives us the word the yalal (יָלַל), (Strong’s H3213) meaning the howling.

Therefore, the passage would read: How are you fallen from heaven, the howling son of morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!
Unquote

Lucifer does not exist.



posted on Mar, 24 2020 @ 07:15 PM
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There are least two or three mentions that mention Lucifer even though the bible never really use the name, all the while Satan mean Adversary.

Ones about one of the Kings of Babylon or linage, who conquered the Hebrews,Nebuchadnezzar or a sons being beaten, that he had such held a high status or reputation, an was defeated by Cyrus, from Persia I think.

Then there is mention of the Morning Star, which gets translated alot, but it supposed to ether mean Shining One or Lght Bearer, all the while Lucifer is from Latin.

There is even a passage about Jesus claiming he is the Morining Star, and the House of David. Oddly enough, not sure if it accurate or not, but Serpent in early hebrew supposed to mean Shining One as well.

O yes, in latin, Jehovah supposed to start with an II an the child of revelations is actually Venus.
edit on 24-3-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 02:25 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04



Seems to me you are just taking things out of context and creating similarities tat either don't exist or are meaningless.

Dahmer and Ghandi are similar. They are both human.



There's a difference between two human beings being similar as human beings who eat, and two beings who are both said to come from Heaven as Light and claim to be God.


a reply to: Seede


2 Peter 1:19 wasn't written in Hebrew. The oldest texts are in Greek and uses the Greek version of the name Lucifer is "Phosphoros". The Latin Vulgate uses the Latin version of the name "Lucifer". Both means "Light-Bearer" in their respective languages and both are titles for "The Morning Star". 2 Peter 1:19 refers to Jesus Christ as (Lucifer/Phosphoros/The Morning Star), not the devil.


This is a bit off topic though because my original post is about similarities of some believe of Lucifer with how Jesus is portrayed in The Gospel of John, not other books.


a reply to: Specimen88


I specifically want to focus on The Gospel of John and how that Gospel's portrayal of Jesus has some similarities to some beliefs about Lucifer, not Jewish Old Testament verses or The Book of Revelation.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

I'm having some difficulty at what you are trying to convey here.

Well that's thing about the O.t an the timing around when the N.t, the name or title of Luicfer did not really exist. The idea of Luicfer might of an was based primarily on Satan, but probably been around prior and might correlate to another, Prince of Air. Thing is though it almost like the Satan an Lucifer are two entirely different characters, symbolically.

I'm guessing your just trying to point out the disbelief an accusations of Jesus being considered a false messiah or god, all the while being a believer an trying to separate the n.t from the old. Also Jesus calling himself Lucifer ironic.
edit on 25-3-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Specimen88

I'm having some difficulty at what you are trying to convey here.



Similarities between commonly held believe of Lucifer and some of the things mentions about Jesus according to The Gospel of John.




Well that's thing about the O.t an the timing around when the N.t, the name or title of Luicfer did not really exist.



We know it existed when 2 Peter 1:19 was written since it uses the Greek word for Lucifer The Morning Star "Phosphoros" in reference to Jesus Christ and the Latin Vulgate which became the most popular Bible at one point when Latin was more popular, actually uses the word "Lucifer" (Latin version of Phosphoros).


However, I want to stay focused on The Gospel of John. This post is not about the origin of the name Lucifer or who Lucifer may or may not be according to The Old Testament. This is about commonly held believe about Lucifer and some similarities to some of the things that are said of Christ in The Gospel of John.




The idea of Luicfer might of an was based primarily on Satan, but probably been around prior and might correlate to another, Prince of Air.


In Greek and Roman beliefs, Lucifer was just The Morning Star, a god, and was not seen as a devil or a rebellious being who fell from Heaven against goodness, so the idea of Lucifer was not based off of the Biblical view of Satan but the word "Lucifer" (or "Phosphoros" in Greek), just happened to be used a few times and in 2 Peter 1:19 it was used in reference to Jesus Christ.




Thing is though it almost like the Satan an Lucifer are two entirely different characters, symbolically.



They are, but more than two. There are different beliefs and views of Satan just like there are different beliefs and views of Lucifer. Also, Jews do not have the same view of Satan as most Christian denominations even though they believe in some of the books in The Bible that some Christians also believe in (referred to as "The Torah" or "The Old Testament")


The idea that Satan is evil and fell from Heaven comes mostly from The New Testament. Many Jews still have a "Book of Job" type of view, where Satan is bad for humans since he brings temptation but he is not evil to Yahweh-Jehovah since he is under his power and is a part of his plan. Also, Satan can move around the world and go back to Heaven just like angels in The Book of Job, which is how he went to Heaven and had a discussion with Yahweh-Jehovah about Job and how he got permission to test Job.


[quote≤]
I'm guessing your just trying to point out the disbelief an accusations of Jesus being considered a false messiah or god,


Getting back on topic to the comparisons of commonly held beliefs of Lucifer to the way Jesus is portrayed in The Gospel of John...


The Jews accused him of not being of God for breaking a Commandment of Yahweh-Jehovah, which was the commandment about the Sabbath (John 9:16), they even wanted to kill Him for working on The Sabbath as commanded by The Olde Testament (John 5:16) and called Him blasphemous for claiming to be God (John 10:33).


Jesus told them that their father was the devil and that's why they seek to kill because the devil was a murderer from the beginning and his children follow him (John 8:44). Christ said that those who came before Him were thieves but the sheep did not listen to them, and
He came to bring life but the thief comes to kill and steal and destroy (John 10:8-10).


Seeing Lucifer as not following Yahweh-Jehovah's commandments, having powers to seemingly do miracles of God to trick people, coming down from Heaven (John 3:13) and suggesting that He will rise back up into Heaven (John 6:62) and coming down from Heaven into the world as Light (John 12:46) and saying that those who follow Him will never die (John 11:25-26)

These are similarities.



all the while being a believer an trying to separate the n.t from the old.




Correct. I believe in The Commandment of Jesus Christ to Love Others and to not be a murderer,



"Love one another as I have loved you, by this shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another" (John 13:34-35).


"I have told you these things so that my joy may be in you and so that your joy may be complete. This is my Commandment that you love one another as I have loved you. No man has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command." (John 15:11-14).


The old testament commandments of putting people to death for working on the Sabbath, or killing animals for sins or picking up the sword to kill people in wars, even women and young children, is different from what is taught in The Gospel of John.


In The Gospel of John, Christ walked around with the power to forgive sins and healed people and even raised the dead without a blood-sacrifice (He was forgiving sins and healing people, even before He died on The Cross). He taught that the devil was a murderer (John 8:44), that those who came before Him were thieves (John 10:8) and that the thief only comes to kill and steal and destroy but He came to bring life (John 10:10).



posted on Mar, 26 2020 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude


2 Peter 1:19 wasn't written in Hebrew. The oldest texts are in Greek and uses the Greek version of the name Lucifer is "Phosphoros". The Latin Vulgate uses the Latin version of the name "Lucifer". Both means "Light-Bearer" in their respective languages and both are titles for "The Morning Star". 2 Peter 1:19 refers to Jesus Christ as (Lucifer/Phosphoros/The Morning Star), not the devil.

How would you know that Kepha Sheniy was not autographed from Hebrew/Aramaic? Apparently you are not aware that the Greeks under James "The Just" copied their Cepher from the autographs of Hebrews. Shim'on Kepha [Peter] addressed his essay to his synagogue of like minded Nazarene's. Read the intro of Peter's work and then use common sense in determining whether or not it was addressed to Greeks or addressed to Hebrews.

Most all who are not taught by qualified teachers assume that because a copied work was found in a certain language that it was autographed in that language. That is not true at all. Peter was a board member to the first synagogue ever dedicated to Jesus after Jesus died. This synagogue was the same upper room mentioned in the Acts pf the Apostles and James was the Nasi of that synagogue. The Apostle John was second in authority of that movement and Peter was third in command of the movement.

What does that imply? This movement of Nazarene's was very strict in forbidding any influence of Roman or Greek languages or liturgy to be expressed to the Hebrew congregation. The Hellenists were not forbidden to worship but not in the synagogue of James. They were allowed to have their own synagogues until they were reeducated to Hebrew/Aramaic ways of life. To be a Hellenist was to be Roman as that was the common language of Rome at that time. The entire liturgy of the Nazarene movement was Hebrew/Aramaic.

Peter, as we have it now, appears to have been copied in 65 - 68 CE but we have no autographs to show the original work. Without those autographs we can not date the autographs or determine the language of those autographs. At this time of 65-68 CE was before Rome destroyed Jerusalem and Peter was still involved in the synagogue of the Nazarene's. It was also the time of Greek synagogues [under James authority] flourishing and reeducating the Hellenists back to Hebrew/Aramaic

As for translators using the name Lucifer in trying to understand the origin of the war in heaven, is actually given in the
discovered cuneiform of the Kings List and it is not Lucifer. Translators only express what their understanding dictates or what they are taught or forced to express. Their agenda is mostly what their peers dictate to them. Research " The Kings List" for your answer.















































































As Rome sought to eradicate the Nazarene's they made a great error in not being able to include the many Hellenists. This is the reason so much Greek was overlooked only to be found by archeology. Most evidence points to Peter writing his letter to his fellow Nazarenes as is written in 2nd Peter, but no one is certain of the facts. i believe you are looking at this with the eyes of the Roman church which most all denominations are the offspring. I have very strong doubts that Peter was ever a bishop or official of the Roman church.



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