Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60

I'm starting to think this is much worse than what they're telling everybody like Morgan Freeman in Deep Impact with E.L.E. or it's being severely overblown.

Israeli medical doctor Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines.

www.jpost.com...

They say most cases are mild but if that's the case why are all of these Hospitals being overrun? I think a lot of these cases are going unreported as Coronavirus and they are just letting people die but not reporting it as Coronavirus. The Government would then have more alarming numbers and that's why it seems like an overreaction.

My family in Ohio called me and Governor Dewine is shutting everything down but essentials. The problem is, Ohio only has 351 cases, 83 hospitalizations and 3 deaths.The population in Ohio is 11.69 million. That's .00003% of the population who has it and when it comes to deaths that's .00000025% of the population. Ohio had 1,068 car deaths last year and we didn't shut down the highways.

I can understand caution but either they're not telling us something or it's a huge overreaction.

a reply to: neoholographic

Placebo effect? Tell everyone they are going to die and they run for help around other people that are actually sick? Drive through testing because a lot of people think they have it when they don’t.

One thing you don’t hear is how many test come back negative.

a reply to: iwanttobelieve70

That's a nocebo.

On topic . There's definitely a lot they aren't telling us.

Quick example calculation, you can patch it up to your own states data:

ICU rate: 5% (pessimistic estimation, might be 2-3%)
ICU beds (Germany-wide): 28,000
ICU beds available for COV-19 patients: 50% of that, 14,000 (the rest is for traumapatients and other normal ICU-patients)
ICU time per patient COV-19: 7 days (rule of thumb right now)

This means that every day about 2,000 new patients can come into Germanys hospital ICUs.

By 5% of the infected, this means as long as we stay under 2,000/0.05 = 40,000 new infections PER DAY, we are in the clear.

With an increase of 30% per the last days, Germany will reach the limit in 8-11 days. After that, it's TRIAGE TIME!
This is under the preclause that there are no additional actions to decrease the exponential curve. Right now, it seems to slow down, a little bit.

a reply to: neoholographic

Not treating anyone over 60, oh boy if there's truth to that it's way worse than we think.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Ohio had 1,068 car deaths last year and we didn't shut down the highways.

I can understand caution but either they're not telling us something or it's a huge overreaction.

Well, for one thing, car crashes aren't contagious ..

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Or under 60 no big deal?

They say most cases are mild but if that's the case why are all of these Hospitals being overrun?

a reply to: neoholographic

In my rural community, the closest hospital has 14 respirators. Our hospital system isn't designed for a pandemic level event.

If 3-4 people die in highway accidents everyday, they're dead. ☹ They aren't needing weeks of care. If your hospital gets 3-4 cases each day of this virus, in a few weeks, it could become overehelmed, then regular services come to a halt. Then someone who could have been saved after a highway crash dies because there's no where to treat them.

If the infection rates are slowed, then the hospitals don't become overwhelmed, and this is a temporary crisis followed by a recession, not a full blown plague event followed by ...who even knows?

a reply to: iwanttobelieve70

What...

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: neoholographic

Not treating anyone over 60, oh boy if there's truth to that it's way worse than we think.

I think so to.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: neoholographic

Not treating anyone over 60, oh boy if there's truth to that it's way worse than we think.

I'm buggered then .

Bally

a reply to: bally001

Not sure the people will accept this...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Of course not. We just have to wait and see.

Bally

There is honest reporting going on but for the moment not everyone seems to want to hear it.

This is a sky news report on the impossible situation doctors find themselves in in Bergamo, northern Italy



Warning: some may find this difficult to watch.

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
a reply to: neoholographic

Placebo effect? Tell everyone they are going to die and they run for help around other people that are actually sick? Drive through testing because a lot of people think they have it when they don’t.

One thing you don’t hear is how many test come back negative.

Look at the video above// . Doesn't look like they are making it up to create better caution.

a reply to: neoholographic

Your OP is exactly why I wrote this thread: Coronavirus: Preventing/Fighting Pneumonia with Conventional, Nutritional and Natural Remedies

Pneumonia is the most common complication and the most severe, and probably accounts for the most deaths. It can be avoided if the cough/virus is treated properly to begin with.

The health officials should be telling us how to do so, but they aren't. So I did.

In a nutshell, keep your upper torso elevated at least 45°; calm but do not completely suppress the cough; and, steam yourself and your environment -- vaporizers, baths and showers, hot drinks, etc.

a reply to: neoholographic

I am perplexed about Italy. Why is it so bad there? The countries right next door are nowhere near as bad. I don't get it. Maybe it's a genetic thing or a different virus. IDK

I am also apprehensive over the reaction in the states to this. I am all about precautions but shutting the whole place down? It doesn't make sense. As you stated, there are many, many diseases and mishaps way more dangerous than this virus. Why the reaction?

Since this is ATS, my favorite hypothesis' so far are:
- this is a test run to see how much over reach TPTB can get away with
- a ruse to hide a gigantic market correction
- a smoke screen to distract from something else
- or maybe humans are really that panic prone, the media went too far
- all of the above

a reply to: Boadicea

I had a former Surgeon General in my state come speak to my Sunday School class (60 people between 65-90) about this when it started. He is retired and was called onto the state task force. Just a few days ago he bugged out in his RV and told everyone he was going somewhere isolated and quit the task force.

I asked about all the things you talked about for pneumonia care. He said none of this mattered.

The virus is not your normal pneumonia.

It actually "eats"/destroys the lining of the lungs. Being upright helps you breathe but does nothing for the pneumonia nor does it stop the virus from entering and destroying your lungs. All the rest you mentioned does help with conventional pneumonia. But NOT with coronavirus because of the way it works to actually destroy lung tissue. That is why patients who have recovered from the worst all have permanent lung damage that shows up on MRI's.

Thanks for the hints. But this is way worse than they are telling us for sure. This is a virus that appears to be clearly designed to kill mostly the elderly and those with multiple health problems which are quite costly to socialist/communist countries.

Interesting it originated near a bio-weapons lab, in a country overwhelmed with elderly, in a society that revers it's elders and would riot/revolt if there were a "non-natural" solution to the problem.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: neoholographic

I am perplexed about Italy. Why is it so bad there? The countries right next door are nowhere near as bad. I don't get it. Maybe it's a genetic thing or a different virus. IDK

I am also apprehensive over the reaction in the states to this. I am all about precautions but shutting the whole place down? It doesn't make sense. As you stated, there are many, many diseases and mishaps way more dangerous than this virus. Why the reaction?

Since this is ATS, my favorite hypothesis' so far are:
- this is a test run to see how much over reach TPTB can get away with
- a ruse to hide a gigantic market correction
- a smoke screen to distract from something else
- or maybe humans are really that panic prone, the media went too far
- all of the above

Political Correctness www.defendevropa.com... ct/

Right after Trump stopped flights from China, Italy went into full PC mode and had a nationwide effort for people to hug as many Chinese people as they could find. Especially if they were directly from China. Even Mayors of major cities went public telling people to do this. www.socialmediaasia.com...

If this wasn't a PC racist effort, I don't know what is. I'd have been offended as a Chinese person to have a white person run up and hug me out of the blue, in a condescending effort to show they weren't afraid of me. Especially if I was from a culture where this behavior was totally unacceptable. But that is unthinking political correctness for you.

Also the Italian kissy culture. You always hug and cheek kiss everyone. To not do this is a grave insult when meeting someone you already know. tuscantraveler.com...

The Italians basically found as many infected people from China as they could - kissed and hugged them - becoming carriers - then went around their daily lives infecting loved ones and spreading it at a rate that doesn't happen in less demonstrative countries.

The problem in Iran where they are digging mass graves is the way they eat socially. Food is often put in the middle of a group and everyone uses their hands to dig the food out of the middle. This is cultural and very polite in their society. www.intrepidtravel.com...

Germans touch as little as possible and things are bad there, even Merkel has it, but not as bad as kissy Italy where they initiated a nationwide "spread the virus campaign" on social media with their Political Correctness run amok.

The US is somewhere inbetween with social hugging among close friends, hand shaking as a basic requirement of business etiquette. I think this will end with the virus.

a reply to: The2Billies

Oh wow. Thank you for sharing that. I sure don't like hearing it, and I sure don't want to believe it, but I can also see that it could be true.

I would still go ahead and do all of it, just because it's better than doing nothing, and may just help. It can't hurt anyway, and may make you a little more comfortable... well, perhaps less uncomfortable.