UFO Evidence - A Closer Look at Peculiar Patterns in UFO Sightings

The Military lies when it wants to cover something up like UFO's. There is no reason on Earth or above it to believe anything the military brass says about UFO's since they are obviously lying about it. Twining is never going to come out and say "Oh yeah, of course we have a saucer in our possession."

Blanchard did that and look how fast he got shot down. But of course he did get a raise after that. How special.

a reply to: JimOberg

You could have simply quoted special report 14 :

”The possibilities for inaccuracies are great because of the inability of an observer to estimate visually size, distance, and speed.”

Of course there is no ‘undeniable proof’ in the public domain in terms of alien artefacts or alien DNA. And of course you can speculate that the 700 cases even Quintanilla could not solve are all misinterpretations.

But to quote Ruppelt:

”If you try this type of speculation on hundreds of sightings with `unknown’ answers, the probability that the speculative answers are correct rapidly approaches zero.”

So, should science at least not pay a bit more attention? Listening to radio waves only yielded one ‘wow’ signal. Observations in our own skies at least 700 under intense scrutiny.

Yet, any typical mainstream scientific treatment of the question ‘is there intelligent life out there’ will highlight SETI and scoff at UFO sightings. In the light of this 700 : 1 ratio this is strangely irrational.

I recently watched a lecture on the subject on Youtube where the presenter (a physicist) stated we might be able to develop a warp drive in the next 1000 years. A 1000 years is nothing on a cosmological time scale. Yet he chuckled at a question about UFO’s. Probably never took the time for a serious study.

I agree there is a "flight pattern", but I think it's simular to marine migration. Many creatures in the ocean move to warmer or colder locations to mate. What if these orbs/ufos are a silicone type based life that usually lives the the Earth's core, only pushing up through volcanos or fresh water springs to mate, or a type of meiosis due to a cooler temperature. They are probably in a liquid state in the core but are able to change their state in the atmosphere.

I applaud any deep research or thought, pro or con, into the subject so flag for that.

UFOs are a visual phenomena and there's no doubt they exist. In that, people can and do visually misidentify objects. And there are some unusual sightings. But hardcore believers need to understand it's a huge leap to go from 'that's a UFO' to 'that's a UFO being piloted by aliens' (or whatever your belief). Be comfortable leaving it as an unknown until physical evidence might show otherwise. If you speak authoritative on aliens being here as a fact because of personal experience, then be accountable for that statement with your evidence. Otherwise understand outside of your world, it is not a fact. So this all-knowing and sometimes outright rude 'we just dont know the real truth' attitude I keep seeing, is unwarranted.

Creating an organized database of all of these cases and a common thread that might run throughout may give supporters of the ETH more hope. But in reality, does nothing to effectively argue your other element of the claim, what is piloting them. Two different problems.

Another issue, once UFOs or aliens are removed from just visual sightings and cross into on-Earth interactions, it changes the argument. Claims now have to be met with confounding physical evidence. Evidence has to be expected and reflect the thousands of stories. This only needs to happen once. People will say "they" are simply too smart to be caught or leave behind evidence, yet you have claims of implants, crashes, trace evidence, bodies, a history of ancient involvement so on with nothing that stands up to any real scrutiny.

Separate the two issues.

originally posted by: jeep3r
I have read many times, maybe too many times, that ufology as a whole suffers from a lack of evidence.

Excellent composition and thanks for the well thought out detail.

To your above point the single greatest barrier to belief in any subject is the lack of personal experience. Unfortunately, too many people remain closed minded to the extent they create an inability to have an objective and open mind to possibility.

I know this to be fact because this was me prior to my first encounter.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
I applaud any deep research or thought, pro or con, into the subject so flag for that.

UFOs are a visual phenomena and there's no doubt they exist. In that, people can and do visually misidentify objects. And there are some unusual sightings. But hardcore believers need to understand it's a huge leap to go from 'that's a UFO' to 'that's a UFO being piloted by aliens' (or whatever your belief).

Isn’t it simply a process of elimination a la Sherlock Holmes?
To quote Twining and special report 14 again:

The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and action which must be considered evasive when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects are controlled either manually, automatically or remotely.

All but about 40 unknowns were classified as such solely because they were reported to have performed maneuvers that could not be ascribed to any known objects.

If (1) some UFO’s are vehicles that are controlled and (2) they perform outside of the envelope of human technology then who or what is controlling them?
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth”.
Basically, this conclusion does not depend on whether they are piloted by aliens or not.

UFO witnesses often simply say “I know what I saw and I don’t know what it was”. They typically do not make any hard claims about it being extraterrestrial but about the way it looked and behaved. Yet the typical response of mainstream science is to lay the burden of evidence on the witness and then look the other way, to their radio antennas. A remarkable response for scientists who are looking for proof of alien life. Not all scientists act this way but it is the knee jerk reaction of mainstream science.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
Another issue, once UFOs or aliens are removed from just visual sightings and cross into on-Earth interactions, it changes the argument. Claims now have to be met with confounding physical evidence. Evidence has to be expected and reflect the thousands of stories.

True, and as expected, there are many trace cases: see here and here for example.

Impressions, burn marks, changes to the soil and to the vegetation, etc.

There are even cases where the impressions were on known materials, which enabled an estimation of the weight of the UFO. The estimated weight to volume ratio in these cases was much higher than that of an airplane, it was closer to the weight per volume of a submarine (see Paul R. Hill, Unconventional Flying Objects). This, again, seems to point to technology outside the envelope of human technology.

Anyone who thinks all UFO's are either natural or man-made are just lying to themselves.

originally posted by: Guest101
Isn’t it simply a process of elimination a la Sherlock Holmes?

It Is NOT. That requires the candidate list being 'selected out' to be demonstrably complete.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
Anyone who thinks all UFO's are either natural or man-made are just lying to themselves.

A touching statement of personal opinion, masquerading as a 'fact'.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
Anyone who thinks all UFO's are either natural or man-made are just lying to themselves.

A statement that could only ever be preached by someone in the pseudo-privileged position of being a self-proclaimed "Knower".

So tell me, SA, there MUST be at least one or two high-profile cases in the last seventy years that you yourself have dismissed as frauds or misidentified. Which are they?

And why did you dismiss them?

a reply to: JimOberg

I absolutely appreciate your insights... Growing up in Brevard County Florida witnessing all the launches from Mercury, to the last shuttle... And watching the moon landing and expecting Armstrong to have to defend himself from aliens... And being bombarded by Hollywood, every light I couldn't ID was a alien space ship 😁. That's how I came to this site so many years ago. I'm so grateful for your posts and how they taught me to question everything and especially my own biased view of what I believed. I just want you to know, you taught at least ONE man objective thinking and I am grateful. I still see lights sometimes, but until I see ET, I won't believe in one lol. Have a nice life.

a reply to: vance

Thanks, Vance …. I have no doubt there are phenomena of genuine interest that are swept up in the UFO reports, making it worth the effort to filter them out. ANYTHING remains possible, even ETI. Here's one of my favorite puzzlers:


www.jamesoberg.com...
.

originally posted by: JimOberg
a reply to: vance

Thanks, Vance …. I have no doubt there are phenomena of genuine interest that are swept up in the UFO reports, making it worth the effort to filter them out. ANYTHING remains possible, even ETI. Here's one of my favorite puzzlers:


www.jamesoberg.com...
.

. Awesome thanks!

a reply to: JimOberg

I enjoyed the read. My wholly uneducated guess, is not space ships, but animals that are not bound to just Earth. Animals not discovered, who enjoy the water, sky and atmosphere as they please. No reason to speculate this idea, because I just don't know lol. This is what my mind did with the available evidence. 😁

a reply to: vance

Totally agree, I think the majority of ufos are lifeforms, not piloted crafts.

a reply to: StationaryStar

Yes how my mind works it out. If super intelligent, bypass ships lol idk

a reply to: Guest101

Did you actually read the cases on that list or just link it assuming by sheer volume you'll make your point? Too many supporters of this phenomenon do just that, limited research. Some cases claim beings came out wearing furs speaking in another language and worked on machinery, several claims had a large group of beings wearing clear helmets and dark suits stepping out to repair their craft, one had aliens with antennas, and on. Stories likely influenced by the imagination of others in the media (movies, tv, comic books, etc) of the time. It demonstrates the level of research and vetting of those stories. So no matter how ridiculous, anything goes as long as the claim has trace evidence? How do you personally weed out truth from the BS in cases like this? Or do you just flat-out blindly believe it all?

It's nothing new. Trace cases like impressions in the soil, burned foilage, tracks in the snow, etc. are all easily reproducible. Certainly not special circumstances and enough evidence to prove the existence of alien life visiting and landing on Earth. It's weak evidence and the type thing believers of this subject have no choice but to grab onto and argue for. Limited and far reaching evidence. Again, the fact remains, once it crosses that barrier from visual to physical, with claims in the thousands, physical evidence should reflect this.

originally posted by: Guest101
Isn’t it simply a process of elimination a la Sherlock Holmes?

I want to deal in facts, not belief. There are no facts that aliens exist so I cant give it serious consideration. I could be a religious follower and just as easily say in my world they could be controlled by angels. Both being a possibility, since anything is possible. But that would be completely based in belief/faith for both as well.

The article makes several claims which would count as evidence:

- A strange metal block is said to be found at the spot.
- angel hair was said to fall.
- UFO explodes and leaves traces.
- a handful of seeds have mysteriously been delivered to Earth by space aliens.

Any one of these could have had an unbiased scientific study and found to be not of Earth. What happened to that evidence?
You've already had the chance with implants through Patient 17, which failed miserably to prove anything. You had the star child skull that was dragged out and studied for years and turned out to be a deformed childs skull. You had the mummified aliens found in Peru that were a hoax. You had the small mummified remains of Atacama body that was proven to be human. So any evidence found could be freely studied and publically shown, showing there's no ridiculous coverup or government conspiracy.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I agree, there is plenty of BS lying around in the UFO field. It’s pretty frustrating. No need to throw it around, I know where to find it 😉

A process of elimination a la Sherlock Holmes, however, is not based on belief but on logic.

If SETI finds a strange signal, they basically do the same – try to eliminate all possible non-ETI explanations. This is very hard to do in case of radio signals from space since we do not know all possible sources of radio signals in the universe yet. So I think SETI basically does not stand a chance of proving without a doubt that any signal they receive comes from an ETI unless it’s as remarkable as a UFO landing on Times Square.

For objects in our own atmosphere this process of elimination can be easier since we have a good understanding of the speeds and accelerations that can be achieved within our current (and past) reach of physics and technology. If we see vehicles operating beyond that reach, our own technology and natural causes can both be ruled out which basically leads the process of elimination to the logical conclusion that we see technology at work that is not human made.

The only ‘escapes’ from this conclusion are (1) assuming huge misinterpretations by both radar and eye witnesses or (2) fantasizing about the existence of secret super technology that even goes beyond the reach of our understanding of fundamental physics. You see both arguments being used again and again.

You stated there should be physical traces and there are. The problem with these trace cases is the same as the problem with digital videos and photos, and was already indicated in the Condon report:

” The existence of an imprint of odd shape or a circular area of crushed vegetation often can be established. Demonstration of a connection between such markings and strange objects has thus far not been accomplished. Attempts to establish such connection must still depend upon personal testimony.”

“Generally there are no physical tests which can be applied to a claimed saucer landing site to prove the origin of the imprints. Occasionally, the degree of compaction of soil by UFO `landing legs’ is presented as evidence that the force was extraordinary. However, if the compaction could have been achieved by a human with a sledge hammer, for example, compaction measurements are of little significance, since they do not yield information regarding the cause of compaction.”

Traces can be faked, even with a sledge hammer, so it all depends again on whether you trust personal testimony. And that, in turn, depends heavily on whether you think the presence of an ETI in our atmosphere is plausible or not.

An interesting trace case is the Zamora incident, starting at 19:25 in the video below. The whole video is worth a watch, by the way. (The debunker explanation (balloon) was already discussed and debunked earlier by the way: the object went against the wind, which was already stated in the intial investigation reports of the case back in the 60's.)

originally posted by: mirageman

But as J. Allen Hynek once said "I realised we don’t have UFOs........ only UFO reports".

I couldn't agree more, we have lots of evidence with all these reports but it's essentially all based on eyewitness accounts only. Subtracting all the misidentifications and hoaxes, we're still left with lots of unexplainable observations, many of which share some of the characteristics described in this thread (and many others).

To me, and most others on here, this means there is a phenomenon which is definitely real (ie. it exists and manifests itself in the reported ways). Now, if we consider that there doesn't seem to be a way of getting hold of any physical proof, maybe there is more to be discovered in all these patterns that have been reported?

Darting away at tremendous speeds after making a 45 degree inclination, performing a pendulum kind of motion when descending, changing colors in relation to speed, stalling car engines at close range, 90 degree turns in mid-air, UFOs often being described as solid, metallic objects when viewed up close and so on and so forth...

Something's going on here, that's for sure. There are too many similiarities for this to be just a product of our imagination, as far as I'm concerned. So what are we dealing with? Interdimensional crafts or beings? ET or some form of terrestrial or extraterrestrial energy beings capable of putting on such a show? Psyops? Holograms? Alien ships? Black projects?

It could be any of those, or something entirely different altogether. It's as puzzling as it is frustrating at times, but maybe we're overlooking something important in all those cases. Maybe we need to look again, maybe we need to search for additional patterns and correlations. The latter would of course be easiest if we had access to a central database as decribed in the last post of my OP.

Although it's certainly time-consuming and probably also quite expensive, creating such a database would IMO be a great service to the community. The rich data included in all those reports, especially the early cases, are the most vauable resource in ufology. In the end, this data is at the core of what we keep talking about, it's all we have and such a database would probably be the best way to "quantify" the phenomenon. Like that, ufology would have a sound scientific base in terms of organizing all the available information.

originally posted by: karl 12
a reply to: jeep3r

Recognize the research links - kudos on a well put together informative thread.

Pendulum motion is an interesting aspect - solid light and water collection are also other interesting aspects.

I couldn't get back to this thread any earlier but a big thanks to you (and all others) for all the valuable input and ideas. The discussion throughout this thread is really interesting and I haven't even had the chance yet to follow up on all the links (but I'll do that now).

Actually, the pendulum motion (reported in so many cases) is one of the patterns described in the Kelly Hopkinsville incident. This is such a strange thing to mention that I tend to rather believe the eyewitness accounts than what some sceptics suggest (that the Sutton family might have been terrorized by a certain species of huge owls).

Of course one could also imagine that pranksters set up a scene with an object attached to a string, mimicking a pendulum kind of motion when said object would swing slightly to the left and right while it glides down along the string. But when considering the many other reports where a falling-leaf motion has been reported by credible witnesses, in mid-air and at high altitude, this would seem rather unlikely...