Collapse of the world; over average unintentional statistics

originally posted by: SeektoUnderstand

I can use infinite comparisons all day and still not one justifies these actions

If you're referring to the hysteria and over-reaction to the relatively small number of Covid-19 deaths in the United States of America, here's why it's occurring:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: SeektoUnderstand

I've noticed a lot of cashiers lashing out at people for protecting themselves. I found it absurd until I realized exactly what you are pointing out: cashiers are over exposed, under protected and under appreciated.

It's only natural to feel fear when one sees other members of their herd display a behavior they aren't that could pertain to one's own survival. When one is exposed to so many and aren't taking measures themselves their subconscious starts to panic "omg all these people have masks and I don't and can't even get one now." If one does not find a suitable adaptation the threat then the brain kicks into self preservation mode, causing one to obsess on and mock others for having the protection they want.

The panic of not having something needed to survive becomes a much more immediate threat to ones health than the virus so the brain prioritizes dismissal of the threat over taking action.

Source: working as a cashier through Swine Flu (I refused PPE and almost died from it) and psychology class with an instructor that was really into herd psychology

Eta: I feel like it's also worth noting that those same people in PPE are treating cashiers like lepers so they are easy targets.

originally posted by: trollslayer
a reply to: AutomateThis1

Perhaps it might be worth considering that those people in PPE have to get some things for their survival from the public and have been told specifically by their doctor to wear PPE (like my pregnant wife and I) because they are one of over 60+% of Americans with comorbidities that can make the virus turn fatal very quickly.

Eta: lots of healthy people have to wear PPE so they don't contract the virus and give it to at risk family or coworkers

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Yes, the comical idiosyncracies have me amused as well. I think a lot of people are struggling to maintain an illusion of control and that's why they're going nuts with disinfectent wipes and toilet paper. Some people are creatures of comfort that never had to do without.

a reply to: SeektoUnderstand

So what are you REALLY trying to say without fully exposing your depraved heart? Come on. Don't be shy.

You know damn well that it isn't about the number of people infected; it's about the numbers needing hospital level care at the same time. That has been made clear to you by myself, and many others. You know it. But you refuse to engage on that level and you refuse to incorporate it into your argument/position.

I can easily recognize and acknowledge that hospitals are being overwhelmed elsewhere, and it will very likely happen here.... But I don't have to belittle and minimize the very real suffering to know these Draconian measures are neither necessary nor appropriate. I can cite chapter and verse (or should I say "article and section") on the enumerated rights that are being violated, as well as the Natural Rights being violated (under the 9th of course). I can offer plenty of other possible ways to mitigate the very real issues without denying they exist, belittling others, or violating Constitutional rights.

Historically, I can also point out that the Founding Fathers were very well aware of plagues and still didn't make an exception to our rights for pandemics, although they were far less prepared for it.

But that's not what you are doing. You ignore the issue and cry about people instead of rights. You cry about percentages instead of the Constitution. Whine, cry, moan, groan....

Quite frankly, all this focus on sick people, instead of power-grabbing political critters, tells me that you would gladly use the same anti-Constitutional methods if it benefited YOU. By using people's suffering (or the lack thereof) to justify your cause, you are making it very clear that you don't really have a problem with these Draconian measures, you have a problem with who it benefits.

a reply to: carewemust

Sorry, Rush Limbaugh is wrong on this one.

Obviously this is far more dangerous then we are allowed to know.

I conclude that this is a top level bio-weapon that was accidentally released. It may be designed to mimic the normal flu to go undetected during flu season. Once flu season is over and everyone seems to have recovered or avoided catching the flu, it re-emerges and people start dropping dead in huge numbers.

Hopefully this is not the case, but I can't otherwise justify risking the entire system in a vain effort to try and contain this thing.

originally posted by: SeektoUnderstand
176 people a day die from “accidental” drug overdoses in America alone.......
Unintentional death stats (lowest probability)
Compared to the 107 people a day that have died from Covid-19 in THE WORLD! .....
107 people a day so far over 4 MONTHS


So again I ask you.... DO WE COLLAPSE ALL ECONOMIES OVER PROBABILITY????????

I can use infinite comparisons all day and still not one justifies these actions

I’ve been using this train of thought all along when I think about this at scale.

So many other things kill people at a materially higher rate than CV19.

I read a stat the other day that something like 7-7.5k humans die daily in the US. That’s like one death every 12-15 seconds. And those deaths (until very recently) had zero to do with CV19. So in two days - just going about our normal business - more pass away in the US alone than the totality of the deaths related to CV19 globally (deaths as reported).

Makes me think that CV19 is either:
1. Way worse and more concerning than reported and we’re in the dark to stop further panic.
2. It’s a bio weapon of some sort (ours or theirs)
3. It is having the exact intended effect - killing off those who are weaker, transferring power to governments, economically decimating small business, investors, etc. with the aim of making more people dependent on the government.

My guess is it’s point number 1 coupled with concerns about overrunning our/the global healthcare system - which is a real concern from my POV.

We’ll probably never (officially) know.

originally posted by: EnigmaChaser

originally posted by: SeektoUnderstand
176 people a day die from “accidental” drug overdoses in America alone.......
Unintentional death stats (lowest probability)
Compared to the 107 people a day that have died from Covid-19 in THE WORLD! .....
107 people a day so far over 4 MONTHS


So again I ask you.... DO WE COLLAPSE ALL ECONOMIES OVER PROBABILITY????????

I can use infinite comparisons all day and still not one justifies these actions

Makes me think that CV19 is either:
1. Way worse and more concerning than reported and we’re in the dark to stop further panic.
2. It’s a bio weapon of some sort (ours or theirs)
3. It is having the exact intended effect - killing off those who are weaker, transferring power to governments, economically decimating small business, investors, etc. with the aim of making more people dependent on the government.

My guess is it’s point number 1 coupled with concerns about overrunning our/the global healthcare system - which is a real concern from my POV.

We’ll probably never (officially) know.

I'll add a couple of other possibilities:
4. It started out as an issue in Wuhan and picked up by the media as an attention grabbing story. The story got out of control, not the virus. Yes, it causes death but I'm not going to repeat what so many others have said about statistics. Why is this 24x7 news?
5. This is a test. A test by some actors trying to see how the masses can be manipulated by using the media. Maybe it's Russia! Maybe China or the CIA. Who knows. If it is a test, those who started it probably can't believe how effective it is.

In the end, I agree, we'll probably never know. Heck, we're still supposed to believe Epstein hanged himself.

a reply to: Nyiah

Actually I think that is what they are doing. They are buying time.

They will keep everything shut down for a few weeks as to not devastate the healthcare sector, build up supplies, medicines, ventilators, temp hospitals, etc.

Then when "peak #2" hits they will be at least semi-ready.

They see Italy and understand that we cannot allow that to happen here. We will have to see Italy peak and start declining before we have an idea of what we are dealing with.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Nyiah

Actually I think that is what they are doing. They are buying time.

They will keep everything shut down for a few weeks as to not devastate the healthcare sector, build up supplies, medicines, ventilators, temp hospitals, etc.

Then when "peak #2" hits they will be at least semi-ready.

They see Italy and understand that we cannot allow that to happen here. We will have to see Italy peak and start declining before we have an idea of what we are dealing with.

I think you’re right that Italy is the case study.

Despite all of my reading, I still don’t have a great answer for why Italy has been hammered as they have.

There’s been talk about:
- lack of taking the virus seriously
- not heeding warnings and isolating people sooner
- concentration of geriatric populations in the north
- the weather/season
- lack of medical infrastructure

And more.... but how much different is Italy than the balance of Western Europe? Italy isn’t some “sh!t hole” third world country. It’s a first world, technologically advanced, modern society.

So why is it they are taking this one on the chin like no one else? Still seems odd to me.

But, I agree, Italy is currently the case study of the “worst case scenario” - when they peak out that data/the why behind it will be very useful.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: EnigmaChaser

originally posted by: SeektoUnderstand
176 people a day die from “accidental” drug overdoses in America alone.......
Unintentional death stats (lowest probability)
Compared to the 107 people a day that have died from Covid-19 in THE WORLD! .....
107 people a day so far over 4 MONTHS


So again I ask you.... DO WE COLLAPSE ALL ECONOMIES OVER PROBABILITY????????

I can use infinite comparisons all day and still not one justifies these actions

Makes me think that CV19 is either:
1. Way worse and more concerning than reported and we’re in the dark to stop further panic.
2. It’s a bio weapon of some sort (ours or theirs)
3. It is having the exact intended effect - killing off those who are weaker, transferring power to governments, economically decimating small business, investors, etc. with the aim of making more people dependent on the government.

My guess is it’s point number 1 coupled with concerns about overrunning our/the global healthcare system - which is a real concern from my POV.

We’ll probably never (officially) know.

I'll add a couple of other possibilities:
4. It started out as an issue in Wuhan and picked up by the media as an attention grabbing story. The story got out of control, not the virus. Yes, it causes death but I'm not going to repeat what so many others have said about statistics. Why is this 24x7 news?
5. This is a test. A test by some actors trying to see how the masses can be manipulated by using the media. Maybe it's Russia! Maybe China or the CIA. Who knows. If it is a test, those who started it probably can't believe how effective it is.

In the end, I agree, we'll probably never know. Heck, we're still supposed to believe Epstein hanged himself.

Point 4 very well might be right.

Heard anything about #metoo recently? Epstein? HRC? Obama? Email scandals? DOJ subpoenas? Pedo rings? Nope - nothing. Allllll of that went away. All of it - to be forgotten as we now have a bigger fish to fry.

a reply to: Boadicea

I even made a post regarding what you claim I am “unable” to argue.....You were saying?

I’ve hit this from almost every angle in the last 2 days on here..... it doesn’t make any sense to justify this widespread “actual” financial destruction and cause hysteria that is ruining people’s ability to critically think.....
all this over the “chance” that hasn’t come to “overburden” a hospital system that has seen a “minimal” uptick in patients?
BUT bet those insurance companies still want their checks, and the government still wants you under their wing

"average unintentional statistics" - I might take issue with the unintentional part, but this is exactly the point - why is the media creating a hysteria over these numbers?
Got flu in late January, got a antibiotic from the doc, wife comes down with 104 temp hospitalized 5 days: screening test for flu: negative Influenza A test: positive Influenza B test: negative. The screening test is worthless, waste of money, must be a big-pharma bonus-able item for somebody in management. Tamiflu taken (late), discharged, home recovering.

Up to now it now looks like COVID19 testing comes in two flavors: 50-80% false positives and %45 false negatives, take your pick for the desired propaganda result. Hopeful these newly available test kits are more reliable, but have doubts since a cheap influenza screening isn't very reliable after a number of years.

Texas not yet locked down, but it doesn't matter since I only go out for food, drugs, doctors appointment, cash machine. Got the last Monday in Dallas for the gym and favorite diner to be open, shutdown occurred at 5pm. Lot's of friends out here behind the pine curtain are really bristling about restrictions, and down right ornery when it comes to 'martial law' 'lockdown' or other such measures. Guess I'll have to stay exercised by jumping to conclusions, chasing tales, and running amok like everyone else on social media.

ganjoa

How is it that on a site who's motto is "deny ignorance, that you find dumbest threads.
Why don't you take a trip to Lombardy region in Italy and see for yourself why societies are shutting down?
Or you could stay put in USA and watch SHTF in a week or two. Than you will finally understand what is happening

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

It just happened to land there first and take root. But yes, they are the case study for us as they are experiencing the same hurdles as we will.

Asia has had to deal with numerous smaller outbreaks and are far better prepared than we are. They also treat early with anti-virals.

The West simply will not do that because they don't have the supply and manufacturing capability to do so. Thus they are reserving anti-virals for the most critical of cases (generally compounding the problem since early treatment would prevent numerous hospitalizations and ICU admissions).

If we would or could test and treat early with with anti-virals, this would have So Much less impact.

There are so many comparisons about the number of Covid patients requiring hospitalization be so much lower than the number being hospitalized for the flu and other causes. Give them Covid on top of whatever serious health issue they're already fighting puts the 'over-the- top' response in a little more perspective.

Can our hospitals afford to add another layer of illness to what they deal with on a normal basis? Only time will tell.

originally posted by: SeektoUnderstand
a reply to: Boadicea

I even made a post regarding what you claim I am “unable” to argue.....You were saying?

Yup... numbers and statistics representing people suffering. Nothing about how it violates Constitutional Rights, nor which enumerated rights, much less Natural Rights. Nothing about how these Constitutional violations very much hurt the many while (perhaps) benefiting the few. Nothing about these measures being taken to prevent overwhelming hospitals -- NOT to prevent deaths. Nothing about alternative voluntary measures that could serve the same purpose without trampling everyone's rights.

I’ve hit this from almost every angle in the last 2 days on here.....

No, you haven't.

...it doesn’t make any sense to justify this widespread “actual” financial destruction and cause hysteria that is ruining people’s ability to critically think.....

No, it's not. But I don't justify my position by the number of people who have died, or by who is dying. If it's wrong, it's wrong. But by taking this stand, you are justifying such actions if a certain number of people have died... how many is that? How many need to die before you are demanding these Draconian measures? Or is it about who? Who are the people who deserve this fate? And who are the people that you would demand such tyranny for?

...all this over the “chance” that hasn’t come to “overburden” a hospital system that has seen a “minimal” uptick in patients?

"Minimal" according to your sources. I provided two other sources -- including one from the CDC -- that said otherwise. At this point, anyone can provide sources (even "experts") to say what they want.

The truth is, we don't have the hard numbers to come to any definitive conclusions regarding averages, peaks, totals, etc. We know that numbers are being withheld under HIPPA and privacy concerns for the patients. We have no idea how many people who had been hospitalized/died were actually infected with coronavirus, but their deaths were attributed to a flu. There are so many holes in the data we could drive a fleet of Mack trucks through it.

BUT bet those insurance companies still want their checks, and the government still wants you under their wing

Of course. That's a given. But don't leave out Big Pharma.

a reply to: infolurker

Careful with the numbers coming from Italy and Europe in general:

www.abovetopsecret.com...