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TA-ANALYSIS: Pentagon Roughly Outlines Free Iraqi Troop Losses

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posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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The Pentagon has revealed in very general terms the troop looses amoung the current free Iraqi miltary and police forces. They've announced that they are seeing causualty rates that are about twice as high as those of American soldiers in Iraq. No specific numbers were given out. However, estimates reveal that this means around 1,000 iraqi troops have been killed since July of 2004.
 



story.news.yahoo.com
Iraqi security forces are dying at twice the rate of U.S. soldiers in the country, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told a congressional panel Thursday. Gen. Richard Myers told the House Armed Services Committee that has held true since last July 1.
During the same period, about 518 U.S. soldiers have been killed in combat, while about 140 more have died in accidents or otherwise outside of combat. Overall, more than 1,500 U.S. forces have died since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
Rumsfeld said 142,000 Iraqi personnel have now received some training and equipment. That includes 80,000 police and security personnel and 60,000 soldiers, officials said. A smaller number are considered capable of performing counterinsurgency operations.





Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Without any pre-war rates to compare this too its perhaps not as informative as one would like. However its interesting to note that that around a thousand iraqi soldiers have died fighting insurgents, whereas slightly more americans have died fighting the insurgents. On the other hand, there's a big time scale difference, and if the rates remian the same, then the death count will be well biased torwards the iraqi side of the column. Perhaps this in and of itself will result in more determination to fight the insurgents, and to root out insurgent plants withint the IP and military.
I have also read that minimum estimates of civilian deaths in iraq during major ground combat operations (based on hospital death reports for hostpitals that didn't treat soldiers) is around 3,000. This means a surprisingly small death toll for the invasion and holding of an entire country. Previous battles in that part of the world resulted in death tolls of equal number. Some have argued that the low death toll overall has lead to a strengthened insurgency.
Regardless, the loss of life is tragic and completely unecessary. The Insurgents have in less than a year killed nearly as many native Iraqis as they have killed Americans. Perhaps this will necessitate a change in their tactics to focus on Americans rather than Iraqis, to hold public opinion steady.

Related News Links:
www.dod.gov
www.iraqigovernment.org
story.news.yahoo.com
www.news24.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Shiite Opinion on Bombings in Iraq
Round 1. KrazyJethro V deeprivergal: Iraq




posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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At the rate the Iraqi troops and public workers are dying is going to become the must highest risk job in the entire country after occurs the government officials.

I imagine that their pay should be in the highest and best pay jobs also, after all this men have families, wives and children, who is to take care of them when their main bread maker is not longer there?

Is so sad, I hope they have some program or benefit available.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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I do not know for sure but I imagine that the reason the Iraqi's are dieing more than US soldiers are, is ability. The US soldiers are better trained and outfitted than the Iraqi soldiers and police. Also the Insurgents/Freedom Fighters see these Iraqis as traitors. An easier target, is still a target probably.

Phae



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I have also read that minimum estimates of civilian deaths in iraq during major ground combat operations (based on hospital death reports for hostpitals that didn't treat soldiers) is around 3,000. This means a surprisingly small death toll for the invasion and holding of an entire country. Previous battles in that part of the world resulted in death tolls of equal number. Some have argued that the low death toll overall has lead to a strengthened insurgency.


Depends on their classification of a civilian.
Any male of military age may not be considered a civilian.

There were an estimated 6,000 deaths just during the November assault on Fallujah and I really doubt all of them were insurgents.

Back on topic.
I wonder if that number of Iraqis killed is leaving out recruits who were killed in massive numbers by roadside bombs.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
At the rate the Iraqi troops and public workers are dying is going to become the must highest risk job in the entire country after occurs the government officials.

This is a measure of the troops and police, not the civilian workers. Should police and military forces fighting insurgents not have the highest death rate in the population?


Is so sad, I hope they have some program or benefit available.

I'd imagine they must if people are still working for it.


phaethor
I do not know for sure but I imagine that the reason the Iraqi's are dieing more than US soldiers are, is ability

I find that unlikely. They are unarmoured and their vehicles are also unarmoured. The terrorists know this too and will target them because they are 'softer' than teh US soldiers.
But I agree that they definitly are not as well trained as the US troops, I just think that the supply side has to have a huge affect also.


aceofbase
There were an estimated 6,000 deaths just during the November assault on Fallujah and I really doubt all of them were insurgents

I don't know what the numbers from the Fallujan Episode are, but that was outside of timeframe of the civilian war deaths from the combat operations.

I wonder if that number of Iraqis killed is leaving out recruits who were killed in massive numbers by roadside bombs.

You mean leaving out people who were not 'graduated'? Intersting question. There is no mention of that in the article. But remember no numbers of people were given, just an generalized estimate of the death rate.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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There were an estimated 6,000 deaths just during the November assault on Fallujah and I really doubt all of them were insurgents


Estimated by who?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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I don't believe anything coming out of the pentagon. Nothing. I think the total iraqi death toll, civilian, police and military would be staggering if the truth were known.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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Then you'd have to believe our troops were out there destroying entire cities. The estimates given on civillian deaths are very realitsic. 15,000 makes sense. Those estimates don't come from the Pentagon, anyway. They come from independent groups, or the media.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Estimated by who?


Iraqi Red Crescent (their version of Red Cross)



www.answers.com...

November

* The US army take a military attack against Fallujah.
* The Iraqi Red Crescent estimate that more than 6000 civilians are killed in the fighting inside and around Falluja the first three weeks of the battle. 250000 people are reported as being internally displaced as a result of the resumed fighting in the city.
* The death toll for U.S. soldiers was 136 at the end of November.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 11:57 PM
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What a reliable source that site is...

If your source were true, it would make up over 1/3 of all civillian casualties in Iraq. That's highly unlikely. That would have been over 10 times the number killed during the April siege.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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FredT
No specific numbers were given out. However, estimates reveal that this means around 1,000 iraqi troops have been killed since July of 2004.


The Brookings Institute has the following figures:

IRAQI SOLDIERS & POLICE OFFICERS KILLED
June 2004- February 3, 2005
1,342
(Eric Schmitt, “Many Iraqi Troops Not Fully Trained, U.S. Officials Say,” New York Times, February 4, 2005.)


IRAQI SECURITY FORCES RECRUITS KILLED
May 1, 2003 -September 23, 2004
721
(Donald D. Rumsfeldt testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee September 23, 2004.)

IRAQI INTERPRETERS WORKING FOR COALITION FORCES KILLED
January, 2004 -September 18, 2004
52
(Sabrina Tavernise, “Iraqis Working for Americans are in Insurgent’s Cross Hairs,” New York Times, September 18, 2004.)

AMERICAN CONTRACTORS KILLED IN IRAQ
as of December 31, 2004
232
(24 “Quarterly and semiannual Report of the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR),” January 30, 2005.)

NON-IRAQI CIVILIANS KILLED
Total through March 10, 2005
251
(25Numbers for all months based on a partial list of contractors killed in Iraq according to ICasualties.org)

FOREIGN NATIONALS KIDNAPPED IN IRAQ
through March 10, 2005
189

TOTAL NUMBER OF INSURGENTS DETAINED OR KILLED
34,470?
NOTE ON TOTAL NUMBER OF INSURGENTS DETAINED OR KILLED TABLE: General George W. Casey estimate that 15,000 militants have
been killed or captured between January 2004 and January 2005. Cameron W. Barr and Karl Vick, :30 Marines, Sailor Die in Copter Crash in Iraq,”
Washington Post, January 27, 2005.
NOTE ON TOTAL NUMBER OF INSURGENTS DETAINED OR KILLED TABLE: The estimate of suspected insurgents killed or detained since
May is a very rough one. The substantial increase in number of people detained or killed in November and onwards may not imply a huge increase in
people detained or killed but rather that the data improved starting that month. The numbers for suspected insurgents killed or detained from November,
2003 to March, 2004 is not a monthly total, but the projected total given the daily pace of detained anti-coalition suspects only, since we have no data on
how many insurgents were killed during those months.


INSURGENT ATTACKS WITH REMOTELY DETONATED BOMBS
Average number of bomb attacks
End of February 2005: 30/day
Dave Moniz, “Pentagon Reports More Bombs, Fewer U.S. Casualties,” USA Today, February 25, 2004.)
--------------------------------------------
Lot's more information in their PDF
www.brookings.edu...



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