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The 5 Laws of Gold: (aka the conspiracy of the rich)

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posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Loungerist
But as you said,you don't understand them in their entirety so I was trying to get you to present your own definition of "creating money"(not the link's),which is not actually what is done so far as I understand it. I was trying to remove the phrase "creating money" from the discussion if that's not really what is meant. Because since you've already agreed that we cannot ALL be rich at the same time I assume you don't actually mean creating money in the literal sense as MWM appears to.

Basically I was just trying to nip further confusion in the bud.


I see what you're saying. The creation of money could actually be snipped from the discussion, as it really has no bearing on how one can rise to wealth from the morass of poverty.

However, as I understand it, money is created in two ways, physically (as in, at a Federal Mint), and virutally (while money is loaned out). It is destroyed either physically (either naturally, or through a Federal Facility), or virtually (when a loan is repaid).

In the case of virtual creation, it works kind of like this (please forgive me as I butcher a very complex policy). A bank makes a loan to Bob Smith, for $1000. As is usually the case, the loan will not be given out all at once, but rather held in an account at the bank, to be drawn against.

1.) Bank = $1000, Bob = $0.
2.) Bank = -$1000 -> Bob's new account +$1000, Bank net = $0

The Bank doesn't want to let this money sit, so until Bob starts to collect on it, they are going to provide another loan. However, now that Bob has an account, they are required by the Federal Reserve to maintain a certain percent (say 10%) of all account totals within the bank. Thus they can now only loan out $900 to Jim Jones, who opens a new account at their bank.

3.) Bob's account balance = $1000, Jim's account balance =+$800.
Bank Reserves = $180.

Bank now has 2 accounts totalling $1,800, from an original amount of $1000. $800 has been "created" out of thin air for the purposes of these loans.

This money, of course, doesn't stay in the accounts, but eventually gets withdrawn and thrown around the economy for a bit, but by that time, other people have deposited money enough to cover the withdrawals. By the time those people who just deposited want their money out, other people will have deposited, loans will be repayed, etc...

However, this money is more like faerie gold. It disappears eventually. The loan, when paid back, removes that money from the economy, and is used to fuel the reserve and withdrawal demands of yet more customers.

That's as best as I understand it at the moment. Hope that clears it up somewhat.




posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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I had this thread bookmarked for later reading, and judging by the date of the original post, it must be around over a year since I bookmarked it.

Shame on me for not coming back to this excellent thread sooner - I really must look through my old bookmarks more often.

WATS vote for you thelibra - thank you for some sound advice in this thread.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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My family are financial geniuses, we have absolutely zero debt what so ever. And we buy stuff all the time. Its all thanks to saving and debit cards.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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Good advice BUT where can someone get compound intrest in this day & age?
Don't forget that inflation is insane and currency devalues, the loss of purchasing power of the dollar in whatever country is purposely shrinking and that is trully a conspiracy of th Banking Elite.
It truly is good advice to pay yourself first.
But we live in the days & age of the socialistic / communist graduated income tax.
And I can practically agree that something is going to be engineered to the stockmarkets, money markets & banks in order to prevent the Babyboomer generation from ever cashing in. In fact debt is the means to control society.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by VelvetSplash
WATS vote for you thelibra - thank you for some sound advice in this thread.


Thank you very much! My intent wasn't to get WATS as rather to accomplish 3 things:

1.) Remove the assumption that just because someone is rich, that they are evil.

2.) Remove the assumption that people can only become rich through ill-gotten gains.

3.) To allow my friends on this board to some day become rich themselves. Because the more "good" rich people, the better off society will be.

I don't think poor people have much capacity to change the world. They're too busy trying to survive. The reason that rich people control the world is because they don't have to focus their energy on survival. They have time to persue other interests, like world domination...or improvement.

Me personally, when I'm rich, I intend on living as healthy as wealth can afford, with as much fun as I can stand...and world domination, of course, but in a fun, healthy way.



Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Good advice BUT where can someone get compound intrest in this day & age?


I'm not an advertiser, or trying to sell anything. Figuring out what investment opportunities suit your needs is largely up to you. My personal recommendation is to pick up the most recent issue of "Money" magazine and read through the entire issue. While you need to balance their advice against your own needs and abilities, I've found it to be a pretty solid publication that remains largely unbiased, or at the least is extremely educational about financial planning.


Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Don't forget that inflation is insane


Incorrect. At 4.32%, Inflation is currently right about where it should be considering what's happened within the housing market the last few years. Additionally, you can expect that with all the Fed rate hikes within the last month, that it will begin to drop off to below 4% in the next couple of months. Don't forget that a healthy rate of inflation is generally between 1% and 3%.

inflationdata.com...



Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
and currency devalues, the loss of purchasing power of the dollar in whatever country is purposely shrinking and that is trully a conspiracy of th Banking Elite.


Again, incorrect.

There isn't a grand banking conspiracy. They don't NEED one. When you're already so filthy stinking rich that other people come to you asking for money, you don't need a conspiracy, all you have to do is keep charging them interest and carefully screen your potential clients and adjust their interest rate based upon the risk of whether or not they'll pay you back, then you don't need a conspiracy to become even richer.

A banker's goal is to make money. If anything, they would want the value of the dollar to increase, so that more people would save money in their banks, which would allow the banks more money to lend out, to make more money on interest. In a devalued dollar, people are less likely to save their money in banks, and instead spend it on living expenses.

I know I'm probably pissing in the wind with this, but you need to accept that bankers WANT a strong healthy economy far more than the average citizen, because their entire livelihood depends upon it. They have zero interest in devaluing the dollar.

Now, a GOVERNMENT might try to devalue the dollar of another country, in order to throw it into economic turmoil, but to claim Bankers are behind the devaluing dollar is like saying Engineers are behind the obesity problem in America. I'll give you a while to figure that one out before explaining.


Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
It truly is good advice to pay yourself first.
But we live in the days & age of the socialistic / communist graduated income tax.


No, we don't. We're about as far removed from socialism/communism as you can get. Even China is pretty far away from communism now.

Income tax itself is debateable in its merit, and people on both sides of the line argue as to the pros and cons of it. It's not a conspiracy either, it's just a method for taxation, which is a neccessary evil if you ever want your government to be able to do anything for you. The debate between income tax versus value added tax versus sales tax is not only fascinatingly educational but is also one we can pretty much assume will NEVER be resolved.

You can also rest assured that no one ever likes paying taxes, but would probably like the lack of government services even less.


Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
And I can practically agree that something is going to be engineered to the stockmarkets, money markets & banks in order to prevent the Babyboomer generation from ever cashing in. In fact debt is the means to control society.


No, no, no... You've got the wrong picture. Please re-read the thread. Nothing is being artificially engineered to hold anyone back in terms of riches. Fact is fact. If you set aside 10% of your income in an interest bearing account, and keep upgrading your interest rate as your pennies accumulate, you WILL end up rising up in a free capitalistic economy.

The people who WANT you to be in debt don't even want you to be in debt the same way you're thinking of. No successful credit business can possibly survive if their customers are all too poor to pay them back the money they were lent. Yes, they WANT to lend you $100, but they want you to pay back that $100 plus interest. That's how they make money. The do not make money by charging off the account and selling it to a collection agency. Collection agencies, likewise, want you to pay back more than they paid to gain your account.

No one WANTS you to be in debt till death, that's a common misconception. They want you in debt until right BEFORE your death, and then they want your accounts paid in full.

Additionally, none of my creditors have any sort of power over me. So long as I pay them on time, I am protected by law. Even if I don't pay on time, I am protected by law. If I can't pay the full amount, I am protected by law. There are so many options it is insane. But the ultimate reality is that if you've borrowed so much money that creditors can legally control your life, then you dug that pit for yourself, and rather than blaming them for it, you need to climb out, one saved penny at a time.


Due to recent interest in this thread, I'm going to take the banner back up and see about some new material. Please let me know if you have any financial related questions, concerns, or situations. While I can't guarentee I'll have all the answers, I can at least try, or point you in the right, realistic direction.



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 03:22 AM
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I'm pretty poor. I live from pay check to pay check on 2 part time jobs. How much money should I save before opening up a savings account? I always have 1/4th of my pay checks gone by the end of the month. Maybe take 10 percent of my next checks aside and then later open up a savings? (but I noticed you slammed putting money in the mattress, maybe I'll put it in a sock lol)



posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 12:23 AM
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Great thread. Richest man in Bablyon is a classic, and I believe they are sound principals that work.


You can probably open an account with like $100, but maybe even less, you should go fund out. Save 10% of your pay until you have the minimum required and go open an account, then deposit 10% of your pay into and go from there



posted on Oct, 24 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Ritual
Goto whitehouse.gov and look up the social statistics in the United States. The average income is 28,000$ USD. That is what a private makes in the Army. That is pathetic.


The member is banned, but his statements remain utterly idiotic. As a private in the Canadian Forces, after expenses - all of them, food, lodging, etc- I'm keeping 1370$ CND. That's more than most people who have better jobs are able to keep of their paychecks. I have no debts, no credit cards, and money just sitting around doing NOTHING.

What should I put it towards, since like 80% of my cashy-monies are going into a savings account? is there a better, more interest-intensive place to put it while I'm off subduing folks?

DE



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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ARgggh... I'm sorry folks, I'm terrible at getting timely replies out on this thread for some reason. Here's my belated responses, I hope they help.



Originally posted by EddyX
I'm pretty poor. I live from pay check to pay check on 2 part time jobs. How much money should I save before opening up a savings account? I always have 1/4th of my pay checks gone by the end of the month. Maybe take 10 percent of my next checks aside and then later open up a savings? (but I noticed you slammed putting money in the mattress, maybe I'll put it in a sock lol)


It doesn't truly matter what percent you put aside, as long as you always put aside an amount. My grandfather's favorite riddle to ask me as I grew up was "How do you move a mountain with nothing but a spoon?"

It wasn't until after many years of being asked this frustrating question at seemingly very inappropriate moments that I finally found out the answer.

"One spoonful at a time".

You won't move a mountain in one day, it seems like an insurmountable task, and you never have a big enough shovel. But it's entirely possible with consistancy and patience.

If 10% is too much, try 5% for a while, with 10% as your eventual goal. If 5% is too much, it's time to evaluate exactly where your money is going, and why. Account for every penny. Do you spend money each day at lunch, buying fast food? If so, are you aware that for the same price as one fast-food biggie meal you can provide yourself an entire WEEK worth of lunches that take only minutes to prepare each night? Do you grab a jo' at the local Starbucks each morning? Try brewing your own wake-up juice. For the price of one Starbucks Latte, you can get a month's worth of Folgiers. It's not the big expensive luxuries that eat up your money, but rather the accumulation of little things each day, every day, over the long course of time. Just like savings, actually.

Most banks will allow you a free savings account with zero minimum as long as you have a checking account with them. Otherwise it's somewhere around a $100-200 minimum in the U.S.... I have no idea what other countries require. Once you have a few hundred just sitting in the bank (which happens pretty darn quick), you will be amazed how much money just starts showing up.

Money is a lot like sex or a job. When you need it, you can't get it to save your life. But once you have plenty, everyone wants to give it to you. If you can just manage to save enough and not touch the money, you will literally start wondering to yourself where all this money is coming from, because it just magnetically seems attracted to itself. Think of it like mass and gravity. The more you have, the more will want to hop on board.



Originally posted by DeusEx
I'm keeping 1370$ CND. That's more than most people who have better jobs are able to keep of their paychecks.


You are absolutely correct. You would be amazed how little wealth people with MUCH better paying jobs have. By wealth I mean "liquid assets". There's a lot of people who make the mistake of thinking that "living high" (fancy cars, jewelry, electronics, etc) is the same as being wealthy. In point of fact, those things mean squat and sell for only a fraction of their value when most needed. What really matters is cash, accounts, and holdings, at least as far as "wealth" goes.



Originally posted by DeusEx
I have no debts, no credit cards, and money just sitting around doing NOTHING.


Hmmm... get a couple of credit cards. Don't use them much, but occasionally buy a burger or something really cheap to pay off, to keep it active. Set up automatic billpay withdrawal. Let them keep upgrading your credit limit but don't use it. When you're a civvy again, you are going to need a good credit line to buy a house, get a loan, anything like that, and nothing builds credit faster than a card you keep paid down but active.

2 years of no late payments on 4 items (like car payment, rent, credit card, etc) is ideal.

Plus, in the event of an emergency, it gives you a redzone buffer. I do not, however, recommend using the CCs to buy luxury items, groceries, gas, etc.



Originally posted by DeusEx
What should I put it towards, since like 80% of my cashy-monies are going into a savings account? is there a better, more interest-intensive place to put it while I'm off subduing folks?


Excellent question.

First and Foremost, a savings account is crap. Use it only to park money long enough to move it elsewhere.

It's a good safe place to keep your money that earns you about three-tenths of one-percent at a good bank. That's horrible. Money devalues at a rate of about 50% every 10-20 years depending on economic times. You are technically losing money every day your money sits in a savings account but not as money money as you lose if it's in no account at all.

As far as where to invest your money after it's parked in savings, you need to consider these things:

  • How quickly can you get to your money in the event of an emergency?

  • How much would you need in the event of an emergency?

  • What kind of penalty will you incurr by withdrawing early?

    "Safe" accounts, where your money is very liquid (able to be got sooner than later) is going to have a much smaller Return on Investment (ROI) than a non-liquid account. The rule of thumb for getting the best ROI is "the more money you put down, and the longer it sits there, the more you will get."

    That said, the next thing to consider is what kind of savings are you looking towards? I personally diversify into three types of savings:

    Short-Term - Savings accounts, money market accounts, these are accounts I keep less than $5000 in. Typically it has less than $1000. This is money I expect to get used at the drop of an emergency, such as a car engine blowing out, replacing tires, doctor visit and medicine, fixing house stuff that breaks, etc. Don't plan on this making you any money, instead think of it as your parachute when the floor drops out from under you. Think of the low interest rate as your rent for that money being held for you. Sure, it grows, but maybe at a dollar or two per month at best.

    Medium - Money I intend to go into long-term investments down the road. Downpayments on a house, the kids college education, a new car (which is not, by the way, an investment, but still an expense to save for), and other multi-thousand dollar items that eventually must be bought. This sort of savings is what is known as "parked" money. This is money that really looks like it's making money, but in truth is only barely keeping pace with inflation. Money Markets, Mutual Funds, S&Ls.

    Long Term - Money I won't see for a loooong time. Roth IRAs, Trust Funds, Diversified long term Stock Portfolios, and so forth. This is what will make me the millionaire next door.


    Now, if you are looking to play the stock market, stop. Before you invest a single dime, you need to first read some Warren Buffet, and adopt his philosophy to investing. In very very short form, his strategy is the same that's worked for centuries. Buy Low. Not "Buy Low, Sell High", because that implies sitting watching the ticker to see when it bottoms out and when it peaks. That is an idiotic strategy that will only cause heartache.

    1.) Buy Low.

    2.) Continue to Buy Low till the market gets better.

    3.) When the market is in terrible times and stocks are plummeting, buy low.

    4.) When the market is doing great and golden, don't buy.

    5.) Give each stock a good 7 to 14 YEARS before deciding if it's a dog that isn't going anywhere. Even then, if you can afford to keep it, do so.

    6.) Finally, wait until the next "good market cycle" before deciding to cash in on your stocks.

    The absolute most vital key to the stock market is the same as saving. Put your money into it, be patient, don't touch it, don't even look at it for years on end. Don't put money into it you will need next week. Don't gamble. Don't try for the quick prize. DIVERSIFY over multiple industrial sectors.

    Finally, put about 1-5% of your "investing" money into gold at a time when the market is doing well. The value of gold is typically inversely related to that of the stock market. So if the market is doing well, you can buy gold on the cheap. When the market goes to crap, you can usually cash in your gold. Also, don't buy "paper gold", buy actual gold-metal, and keep it in a very solid fire-proof safe. In the event of complete and total economic collapse, people will revert to what they know, and what they can touch, and in almost every civilized culture, gold has been the standard of value for centuries, at least until the virtual dollar came about. In a world where virtual is no longer a possibility, gold will be the next currency.



  • posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 12:37 PM
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    Originally posted by thelibra

  • Those who are poor, choose to be.



  • Sorry to be a pain in the butt but that is the most asinine, idiotic statement I have ever heard and its utter bull ! That by far is the most insensitive, arrogant pile I have ever heard hear at ATS.

    You should be ashamed !! There are BILLIONS of poor people on Earth and you say they all CHOOSE to be poor ???

    Get a clue and wake up ! obviously you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

    and yes I read the whole thread..including your backpedaling on that statement......but its too late..you said it...and its total crap !
















    [edit on 25-10-2006 by Alpha Grey]



    posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 02:15 PM
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    Originally posted by Alpha Grey
    You should be ashamed !! There are BILLIONS of poor people on Earth and you say they all CHOOSE to be poor ???

    Get a clue and wake up ! obviously you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

    and yes I read the whole thread..including your backpedaling on that statement......but its too late..you said it...and its total crap !



    Cool. Kiss off, then, and find another thread. Ta-ta. Go be poor while you're at it.

    I addressed this question fully, several times, within the thread. And frankly, the first people to ask were far more polite and mature about the wording than yourself. I clarified. I expounded. I made exceptions. If you choose to act like an ignorant little child you are absolutely entitled to, but if you insist on attempting to derail this thread again, I will submit a complaint against your trolling.

    If, however, you had bothered to actually think about what I said, and perhaps had the education to understand it, you would know that, yes, in fact, if someone who is born into a free market economy with the same physical and mental faculties as the average Joe, if those people are poor, they choose to be.

    Yes, sometimes bad things happen. And not everyone is born into a free-market economy, and not everyone is born with the mental or physical capacity to work or ever hope of learning basic math.

    But if you can hold a job, if you can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and you live in a free market economy, you CHOOSE to be rich or poor. If you refuse to work, if you refuse to save, if you refuse to budget, if you refuse to invest in long term goals rather than instant gratification, then you CHOOSE to be poor, and your post is a glaring example of the type of person that chooses that route, because you've also CHOSEN ignorance. Bravo! Go be poor.



    posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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    Originally posted by thelibra
    Cool. Kiss off, then, and find another thread. Ta-ta. Go be poor while you're at it.

    I addressed this question fully, several times, within the thread. And frankly, the first people to ask were far more polite and mature about the wording than yourself. I clarified. I expounded. I made exceptions. If you choose to act like an ignorant little child you are absolutely entitled to, but if you insist on attempting to derail this thread again, I will submit a complaint against your trolling.

    If, however, you had bothered to actually think about what I said, and perhaps had the education to understand it, you would know that, yes, in fact, if someone who is born into a free market economy with the same physical and mental faculties as the average Joe, if those people are poor, they choose to be.

    Yes, sometimes bad things happen. And not everyone is born into a free-market economy, and not everyone is born with the mental or physical capacity to work or ever hope of learning basic math.

    But if you can hold a job, if you can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and you live in a free market economy, you CHOOSE to be rich or poor. If you refuse to work, if you refuse to save, if you refuse to budget, if you refuse to invest in long term goals rather than instant gratification, then you CHOOSE to be poor, and your post is a glaring example of the type of person that chooses that route, because you've also CHOSEN ignorance. Bravo! Go be poor.




    I have never ignored anyone here at ATS but you are the first. maybe you should proof-read your threads before you put out a statement like that.....as for my education and what or what not I can understand.....that has NOTHING to do with it. I understood your thread fine....but you I do not......you offend someone and when they speak out about it you push them away with a


    Cool. Kiss off, then, and find another thread. Ta-ta. Go be poor while you're at it.


    You are ignorant and arrogant. Go ahead and report me as a troll......evidently you cannot take the heat from your own statements and need someone to protect you from yourself. As for me "derailing your thread"......Trust me...I will never read any of your threads again.....that ignorance I can do without.














    [edit on 25-10-2006 by Alpha Grey]



    posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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    (edited by TheLibra for attempt at a more civil response)

    [edit on 10/25/2006 by thelibra]



    posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 05:42 PM
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    I need to make something very clear before this thread can continue. I am in no way trying to insult the poor. I have no idea if I've ever made this clear, but I grew up poor, became homeless, and it got worse from there. I am now middle class and rising. Do you have any idea how overjoyed I am? And how desperately I want to share how I got there?

    I didn't win the lottery, I didn't have a rich relative take me in. I didn't even get a leg up. The only thing that got me out of it was listening when someone said "Learn this, you'll make more money" and if someone said "Do this, and your money will grow". Not everything everyone told me was true. In fact, just about everything that was in any way quick was a scam.

    What worked was showing up for work every day, budgeting my money, and always setting aside a minimal percentage of my pay, for me, before anyone else, to save. To grow. And when it grew enough, to upgrade it.

    I didn't start with thousands of dollars, or even hundreds.
    When I first started saving it was pathetic. $20 a month. It was all I could squeeze out, and that was with every conceivable luxury item I could drop. But the next month I realized since I'd budgeted my money well, I'd actually spent less money, and could put that towards savings as well. After two months, I'd found enough of a pattern that I could judge most of my life's costs to within a $5 range, from that point on, I found that I actually could set aside about $100/month. What the hell?

    Life isn't one big thing. It's a lot of little things. And they add up to an enormous amount. Months aren't one solid unit of time, they are a collection of days. $100 is about $3.00 a day. If you budget your money wisely, maybe you won't even scratch out $3.00 a day, maybe you can only scratch out 25 cents a day. That's pretty poor. $7.50... right there. If you are hard pressed to squeeze out 25 cents a day, then $7.50 is going to seem like a fortune. You're going to look at that can of quarters and wonder how the hell you got all that money? What are you possibly going to do with it?

    Put it away. Don't touch it. Hide it. If you can in any way shape, or form, get it to the bank, because they can guard it better than you can. Save it for a year. $90. But you know what? You aren't going to stay only saving $7.50 a month. You're going to be excited, because for the first time in as long as you can remember, you've got $7.50 sitting right there, in cash!

    That's the biggest and hardest test right there, though, isn't it? Not spending it. If you keep your resolve, and don't spend it, then in less than 2 years, at 25 cents a day, you've got enough for a semester at a junior college. Learn something. The poorer you are, the more your single greatest investment will be in education.

    If you took all $180 saved in 2 years, and spent it to learn an in-demand trade that will allow you to save $180 in one month (which I was able to do earning minimum wage), then at the end of the next two years you will have saved $4,320. That is more than most people I know have ever had in their bank account that wasn't already spoken for, but for you it would be over $4,320 you could do anything with.

    But fortunately, what you really choose to do with your money is not to spend it, but instead, have it make you more money. So you find a modest 5% return investment account. From that point on, your $4,320 is generating $302.4+ per year!

    Four years later and your interest alone, from one year is almost double what you were capable of saving in your first two years, just being generated out of thin air, because that's how interest works over time.

    And since you are constantly expanding your skills in your free time, and learning new ways to budget money, you find you can do more with what you earn, rather than what you wish you earned. So at the end of 6 years, from the moment you started saving one miserable quarter per day, you are now in an elite group of savers who enter the 7-11% interest rates that you only see with $10k down.

    From there your imagination can take over, I'm sure. And the reality is that it works this way whether you are talking about a penny a day or a hundred dollars a day. Money has to follow the laws of math. The math doesn't lie, it just doesn't.

    Six years ago all I knew is that I was tired of being poor and I was ready to listen and learn how to become rich. I didn't have to cheat, steal, sell, harm, or even break a single law. There has never been an ethical question in my mind about what I did to get where I am, I simply listened when someone tried to give me good advice, and did the legwork on my own.

    For someone to choose not to be poor, one cannot just lament the fact and wish to be rich. Instead, what one does is actively persue the most proven path of least resistance to becoming better off. That path is not only through savings and interest and budgeting your money, but constantly seeking to learn how to do all of those things even better than you were doing it before.

    That is what I mean by the poor choosing to be poor. I hated being poor, and if someone had said "do you want to be rich?" I'd have said yes. Who the hell wouldn't? But it wasn't until I decided, until I actively made the choice to do what it took to not be poor, did things ever start to improve.



    posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 04:18 PM
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    theLibra:

    I started reading this thread quite some time ago and was completely impressed. It is sound, logical advice that makes complete sense. I only wish I had advice like this when I was young… perhaps I wouldn’t be up to my ears in debt.

    I just purchased a copy of "The Richest Man in Babylon" for myself and plan on reading the book and abiding by it's principles from here on out and then passing this information on to my kids when they get older so that they have solid footing to start their path to personal wealth.

    I just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread, for summarizing the book, and for all of your advice. Thanks!

    Edit: I also especially want to commend you on your rise from rags to middle class! Your spirit and enthusiasm is awesome. It's great that you're now trying to help others. You have a great story. It's not easy what you've done and I congratulate you on your success!

    [edit on 16-11-2006 by mecheng]



    posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 10:01 AM
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    Originally posted by mecheng
    I just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread, for summarizing the book, and for all of your advice. Thanks!


    I'll pass the thanks on to my father. He's the one who finally figured out how to get me to read the book. Since then, I've given it away as Christmas, Chanukah, Birthday, and other gifts. Some chose to read it, and others chose to use it to balance out a short table leg. Those who read it and applied it have already seen success comparable to (or even better than) my own.

    The truest thanks is in application of the knowledge, but I know my father will appreciate how far his advice has spread.


    Originally posted by mecheng
    Edit: I also especially want to commend you on your rise from rags to middle class! Your spirit and enthusiasm is awesome. It's great that you're now trying to help others. You have a great story. It's not easy what you've done and I congratulate you on your success!


    Thank you very much, that means a lot to me. I can't afford to give all my money away to the poor, but maybe I can show them how to give their money to themselves.


    ...and now, some of the long-promised updates that I keep meaning to get together in one post...

    Things I Learned the Hard Way

    DISCLAIMER: Please don't consider these as advertisements, they're just things I've found that worked for me. Also, some of these specific

  • Online Savings Account - Your short-term savings account should charge you no fees, have no minimum, have a near zero-delay for funds withdrawal, and offer a competitive rate. You cannot trust the bank to tell you if their rate is competitive, you can only compare it to other banks. Most brick and mortar banks offer only a fraction of a percent (like 0.35%) for even their best plans. Thus, I'm rather fond of online savings accounts, which due to their decreased costs can offer much higher rates. HSBC, for instance, offers a 5.05% interest rate for savings in America, which is very competitive, even against higher risk accounts like Money Markets. However, when choosing an online bank you want to make absolutely sure that: they have a "real" building, in the same country as you, preferably within driving distance, that they are insured, that they have good reviews, and that there isn't a class action suit against them. Provided you can find an online savings account that meets all these criteria, it makes an excellent jumping board to higher tier interest earners, once you have accumulated monies in the thousands. About $2500 should do nicely to step up to the next level.

  • Ginnie Mae - Ginnie Mae accounts are excellent for medium to long-term investing. A small personal Ginnie Mae account requires about $2500 USD down, depending on which firm you open the account with, which buys shares into the Ginnie Mae market, like a stock. This stock price will fluctuate in the vicinity of $10/share, and will only change by pennies through the months, up and down. The share price of a Ginnie Mae is not what makes you money. What makes you money is the rather healthy dividends it pays out on a monthly basis. I earn, on average, about $25-100 per month from the dividends alone, which pretty much just get automatically re-invested, so my dividends always get a little larger each month. Ginnie Maes are based off of the real estate market, but are incredibly stable because what you are actually buying with an individual Ginnie Mae account is a small piece of a multi-million (usually at least $25-50mil) mortgage firm or conglomerate of firms. However, remember the housing market is cyclical, so to truly get the most out of your money from a Ginnie Mae, you're going to want to leave your money in there on the scale of years, perhaps even decades. This is considered an excellent place to park your money up to about $10,000. Once you have about $10,000 in a Ginnie Mae, it's time to start using your dividends to buy stocks. There are many places you can buy a Ginnie Mae from, but American Century has, in my opinion, some of the best customer service, and answered all questions I had fully.

  • The Stock Market - After you have $10,000 just sitting around gaining dividends and interest, it's time to start putting the rest of your savings into stocks. The stock market is intimidating to the new investor, exciting to the day trader, and predictable to the practiced trader. It is where you will ultimately see your highest returns. Do not put a penny into the stock market you cannot afford to go without. If you put money you can't afford to lose into the stock market, I absolutley gaurentee you WILL desperately need it when it is at it's lowest value, and you will probably take a loss. I also cannot recommend enough that you read and understand Warren Buffet before you invest, however, I will try to summarize his philosophy to investing. The market is cyclical. It will have ups and downs, but in general, the momentum is always averaging out in an upward direction. You should spread your investments out across multiple industry sectors (such as metals, agriculture, textiles, etc), and just keep buying at a steady pace. When the market is doing horrible, and ignorant or desperate investors are dumping their shares, and the price of your stock drops to half of what you bought it for previously, consider it a sale on stock. The market always recovers given time. So instead of panicking, put the same amount of money into buying as you always do and smile that you're getting 2 for 1 shares now. The business cycle goes in about 7 year periods. This is how you tell if you have a dog stock. If a stock you have does not increase in overall value after 7 years, it is a "dog" or, non-performer. It is okay to sell your stock at this point and reinvest in another, more promising option. Don't sell your stock in less than 7 years. The exception to this rule is if a company is filing for bankruptcy or is rumored to be considering it. Many bankruptcies now void all shares of previous held stock (like K-Mart did before its re-emergence and subsequent takeover by Sears). I learned that the hard way. The important thing to remember though, is that you should be diversified enough across all industries that you don't really care if ONE of your stocks isn't doing well, because your other 19 are probably doing okay...unless the market is down, which is always great news for the smartest investors. However, this illustrates why you should NEVER invest a penny into the stock market that you can't live without. You might have to wait 7, 14, or 20 years or more to see the sort of Buffet-like massive returns. Buffet didn't make his billions by day-trading the hot volitile stocks. He did it through decades of slow and steady investment of funds he'd never have to liquidate in an emergency.

  • Gold - Gold stays inversely valued to the stock market for some reason. When the market is doing poorly, gold goes up in value. When the market is doing well, gold goes down in value. As best I can tell, it's psychology. Stocks are intangible thoughts represented on pieces of paper. They have value because people think they have value. Gold, on the other hand, is a tangible object. It will always be rare (at least for the forseeable future), and it will always be desired by someone, and is universally exchangeable between countries. Once you start investing in stocks, if the market is doing decently or better, take 5% of that money and buy gold with it, and wait for the stock market to tank. When the inevitable recession hits, wait for the gold to rise up in value, then sell it for a profit, and use the profits to buy more stock. This way you not only make a profit from your gold, you also get to buy more stock during its discount days than you otherwise could.


    Next post is on what to look for when buying a house, I promise. I'm almost done writing it.



  • posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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    I read this whole thread and all I could find was sound financial advice from thelibra.


    What exactly is the conspiracy here? The NWO is surely not made up of people saving 10% or whatever of their salary a month?

    The NWO is made up of Super-rich individuals. Ten percent of the population holds 2/3 of the wealth. Rags to Riches stories are mostly mythical. The fact remains that a large part of income is inherited not earned.


    How fixed is class position in the supposedly hyper-fluid "land of opportunity?" The best current research determines, the Journal reports, that "at least 45%" and "perhaps as much as 60%" of "parents' advantage" is "passed on to their children." If you go with the 60% estimate, Wessel notes, then rich peoples' inherited edge - and poor peoples' inherited disadvantage - go back as far as five generations. That happens to take us back to the end of the Civil War and the constitutional abolition of slavery.

    www.zmag.org...


    The NWO is real. Social class wars are real.

    Note: I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad a few years back. It’s content is very similar to the book your referring to.

    Here’s another excellent no-nonsense article on finance: Freethinking about finances


    [edit on 17/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



    posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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    First, two quick definitions:

    Salability - How likely someone will be to make an offer on a house in their price range. A fresh coat of paint, a well-manicured lawn, clean windows, etc, will all increase the salability but not the value.

    Value - POTENTIAL Price charged for purchase of the home. Your home might technically have increased in value by $30k in one year (ours did, w00t!) but if no one is buying houses in your area for more than a certain amount, there's a good chance you won't sell at full value.

    People will always need homes. But will they want YOUR home? Whenever you buy a house, buy it with the idea that you will, one day, be selling it. Rental properties are a nice source of income, but to tell the truth, they are a poor long-term investment. They take too long to pay themselves off, they have lower property value, and they bring down the property value around themselves. If you want to get into the rental-property game, do so with properties that you have already paid off that have little hope of selling otherwise, and then resign yourself to the fact that it will most likely be trashed on a regular basis between customers. While I'm certain there are exceptions to the rule, people who rent a house just don't care for it to the same degree as those who are buying a house. There's a huge difference between living in a place knowing you can move out and not owe tens of thousands of dollars, and knowing you might have to live there the rest of your life. You will almost always do better to buy a home, rennovate it, and then resell it for a higher price. There is no solid way to guarentee that it will increase in value, but you can stack the deck in your favor by doing the following:

  • Be choosy before you buy - Don't be afraid to look at literally dozens of houses before buying. Ideally, your house should be on a street where people park their cars in the driveway or on the garage. A lot of cars parked on the sides of the street is an immediate red flag of a declining neighborhood. It's also a pain in the arse to drive down and very unattractive. Be sure the neighbors keep their lawns maintained. Because most homeowners do their lawns on the weekend, this makes Mondays one of the best times to look at houses. If, on a Monday, the neighbors' lawns look like crap and cars are parked along the side of the street, find another neighborhood to buy a house in. These may seem like shallow and trivial things, but the world judges books by their cover. If your neighborhood looks run down and crowded, it decreases your house's ability to sell, no matter how nice the people are. You will also want the house to be close to schools and a religious establishment, regardless of whether you have kids, intend to have kids, or are religious. The reason is because it keeps your location within markets that do not decrease the value. People as a rule, will not avoid buying a house just because it's close to schools or a church. They might, however, avoid buying it if it is too far from either.

  • Surrounding area - try to make sure that everyday markets are within a brisk walk or a very short drive. Good things to have within several blocks of your home are: grocers, pharmacies, hardware stores (you WILL need one almost as often as grocery stores), elementary school, junior high, gas station, a park, and a post office. If any one of those things aren't relatively close, you have not only signed up for years of invconvenience, but will have removed yourself from consideration by many future buyers. Our home is roughly equidistant from all of those things. Things to have within a 5-10 minute drive are: freeways (or whatever passes for a major avenue in your area), hospitals, high schools, college or junior college, shopping malls, and other places that produce a lot of noise, but would have the potential to need visitation on a regular basis. Places you want MORE than 10 minutes drive from you are: stadiums, amusement parks, airports, train tracks, and other places which produce an enormous amount of noise, on a consistant basis, that you would rarely need to visit. This all may sound very complex to try and work out, but to tell the truth, most residential and commercial sections are designed with this in mind, and if you acquaint yourself well with the area you're considering buying, you will get a much higher and faster increase in land value.

  • Avoid Apartment Complexes - This gets it's own number because it is so terribly important. Don't buy a house near an apartment complex. This is nothing against anyone who lives in an apartment, we've all lived in one at some point or another, and we probably all had horrible neighbors in the apartments who played their music outside, blasting loud, at all hours of the night and morning. We've probably all dealt with the ever-present problem of parking in the apartments, of homeless rooting through the dumpsters, of people's apartments getting broken into, of constant vandalism on the premises, the constant car-alarms going off...and if you haven't experienced any of these things, you aren't living in an Apartment, you're living in an upscale community living area.... but guess what? One day that upscale place will be run down, and it won't be torn down, it'll just get sold to whomever is willing to foot the bill. Simply put, no one wants an apartment complex next to their house. They KILL the land value. If an apartment complex gets erected near your house, it's time to consider selling within the next year or so, or turning it into a rental property.

  • Physical Condition - MOST important is to check the physical condition of the house. If you have the perfect location, but the house is crap, either tear it down and build a new one or look elsewhere, otherwise you're looking at a money pit.

    1.) First priority goes to the foundation. You should have at least a couple of inches of foundation visible ABOVE the soil line. You might find some occasional uniform rusty holes here and there. Typically that's fine, it's just where reinforcing rebar was slid into the foundation and the filling either came out or never went in. Typically it's just covered over with some concrete or filler, so it's not a question of structure. What you DO need to worry about are VERTICLE cracks. Horizontal cracks aren't nearly as bad, but still might merit some investigation, but vertical cracks in the foundation are usually indicative of past or present foundation problems. If you see the crack from the foundation has traveled up the wall and follows the brickwork, then demand to see the paperwork of whoever repaired the foundation, and have a CPE (Certified Professional Engineer) examine the foundation and see if it's stable. Almost every house has a foundation problem at some point, which is normally fine, provided they are repaired CORRECTLY. A botched job, or worse yet, sinking land, should be an immediate "NO" on buying. So, in essence, don't let foundation WORK be a deal breaker if done correctly and the land has stabilized, but be wary of it and GET A CPE to sign off on it. They cost about $200, but that's a helluva lot less than several thousand.

    2.) Next, check the weep-holes. That's those vertical gaps between the occasional bricks that rest just above the foundation. They allow condensation to "weep" out of the walls and into the ground outside, instead of inside. If they are clogged, see how easily they clean out. If it's just a little bit of grass or dirt, fine. If a full minute's work with a screwdriver doesn't clean it out, something happened in that area to get a lot of crud in there like vermin or termites.

    3.) Check the brickwork (provided there is actually brickwork). How good a shape is it in? Are there a lot of cracked bricks? A few cracked bricks here and there, or a zig-zagging crack in the MORTAR between bricks is perfectly normal. Houses settle, and that's what happens when they do. Also, see how many "extra" bricks they have leftover. There's a chance your brick-type is rare, possibly not even made anymore. It's not critical, but it's nice to have all your brickwork match, should you ever have to patch a hole in your wall.

    4.) Pools. Everyone who doesn't have a pool wants one. Everyone who has a pool hates the maintenance. Ask yourselves just how badly you want a pool. Is it enough to dump THOUSANDS of dollars a year into it? Will it bring your family that much enjoyment? You don't just buy a pool and that's it. Between keeping it filled with water, (they evaporate like mad), chemicals, cleaning the filters, replacing and fixing the pump parts, cleaning the pool itself, you will put thousands of dollars worth of materials and time into the pool from here till the day you don't have a pool anymore. Chances are, if you need my advice on finances, you can't afford a pool (yet), even if you can afford to BUY a pool. Pools will not add to the value of your house. A pool has a small chance of adding to the salability of a house if it's a really nice pool, and if the potential buyer is looking for a house with a pool. For everyone else though, it can actually decrease your salability. A pool is an absolutely terrible investment for a house. If you find that perfect house, and it has a pool, and you buy it anyway, then once you get sick of taking care of the pool you can convert it into an underground shelter.

    (continued next post)



  • posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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    5.) Hire a Home Inspector. This is a fairly late in the game move. Once you've decided you are interested in making an offer it's time to call the home inspector. In some states, this is a requirement before you can buy hazard insurance. Even if it's not a requirement, HIRE A HOME INSPECTOR. They also cost around $200, but it's a lot cheaper than the thousands not hiring one will cost you. In some cases, it'll save your life. One house we looked at looked perfect, was in a great neighborhood, and everything looked fine. Before we made the offer, we hired a home inspector who found that almost all the wall sockets were improperly installed, he found SEVERE BURNS from electrical connections that had arc'd and burnt sheetrock and wood, and the gauge of wire was too thin for all of the large appliance sockets. The house was a deathtrap, ready to go up in an electrical fire. We looked at other homes. A few months back we went driving through that neighborhood again and found a completely new house where the old one was. I can only gues it eventually caught fire and burned to the ground. But on a less frightening note, a home inspector will let you know what needs fixing up, and give you an approximate cost to fix it. He won't fix it himself, but rather give you a ballpark figure to take to the table. Provided you can deal with all the little things the inspector will find, you can add up the figures on the list and ask the sellers to lower the price of the house accordingly. And, once again this bears mentioning, if your home inspector finds foundation work or damage, HIRE A CPE to investigate it.

    6.) Drainage. If you hire a CPE, they can tell you exactly how good your drainage is, otherwise you'll have to eyeball it. Drainage is the angle of the yard compared to the angle of the foundation of the house. Ideally, they should be nearly parallel, with the land dropping away from the house on all sides. A gentle slope downward away from the house will help keep it from flooding, and make it easier to mow. A drastic slope downward away from the house will have fantastic drainage, but will be more difficult to mow, build on, garden in, and you're also more likely to trip and fall, which gets scarier the older you get. However, if the land slopes down TOWARDS the house on one end, it better damn well slope down AWAY from the house on the other side, or you are going to find out what it's like to have several inches deep of water in your house the next good rain you get. If the drainage on the house is bad on more than two sides, find another house.

    7.) Bathrooms. Kitchen. - BE HAPPY on these. They are expensive to change (in the thousands easily) structurally, and even a fresh look with no change in structure will cost hundreds. We are presently redoing our bathroom, doing all the labor ourselves, and I'm looking at $700 for just tile, paint, texture, and misc materials, plus going on about a month of work. Everyone has a plan to upgrade the kitchen, or the bathroom, but trust me, this won't happen immediately, and it will take time, and it will be expensive, and there will always be a million more demands on your money, so when you buy the house, buy with an eye to the future, but make sure you can live with what's there right now in the meantime.

    8.) Little Things: Depending on what you want it for, and the climate in your area, a detached garage can be a blessing or a bane. If you live in Texas and plan on storing your car in the garage, then you want an attached garage. This way you don't have to travel back and forth to the elements to get to your primary area for transporation and storage. And you will be travelling to this area a LOT. However, if you live in San Diego, and you want a game room instead of a place to store your car, a detached garage is preferable, because it gives two social areas: one to be a noisy party area, and the other as a quiet place of rest, seperated by two walls and a lot of air. A storage shed in the backyard does wonders for keeping the garage less cluttered and it also gives you a place to "sneak out back" when needed. That's about the easiest thing to fix. Take a walk around the neighborhood on as many occasions as you can. At night, in the morning, in the afternoon, on weekdays, on weekends... get a feel for the attitude, noise level, and friendliness of the neighborhood. Is the fence in good repair? Do all the gates open and close? Is there adequate insulation in the attic and walls? Are the windows clear or fogged? Are they leaving their old appliances or taking them with (usually they leave the range and the dishwasher). Are the ceilings regular height or vaulted? Vaulted ceilings are pretty, but keep in mind your air conditioner and heater don't care about anything other than the number of cubic feet of air that is in your home. Big vaulted ceilings increase the volume of air by 1/4 to 1/2, or perhaps even 2-3x as much in large multi-story rooms. Two-story houses will also cost a lot more to heat and cool. Does the back yard have a SOLID covered porch? This makes a world of difference for company and grilling and any projects where you need to work outdoors for any length of time.

    9.) Landscaping - Keep it simple. Fancy fancy landscaping will be a pain to upkeep, will intimidate future buyers, and will not add to the value of the house. We would all love to have a backyard like Mr. Miyagi, but most of us would not want to have to do the upkeep on it. Unless you LOVE yardwork (and you won't, after your first year), or can afford a gardener (which is a ridiculously stupid way to spend your money), then I suggest keeping modest in any landscape changes you make or choose. A tasteful flower bed, some trees, and a well-manicured lawn will put future buyers MUCH more at ease than a pond, a mound of giant bushy plants, a waterfall, and so forth. Just remember, everyone's tastes are different, and the more "neutral" your house is, the more your potential buyer will have fun trying to figure out ways they can spice it up and add their own unique touchh to it.

    10.) Upgrades - Repairs aside, when you upgrade, first do a bathroom. This will be the easiest job that will encompass the most number of "things to learn", while at the same time increasing your house for the greatest possible amount. Once you have some upgrade work under your belt, THEN tackle the kitchen, then tackle the Master Bathroom. The Kitchen and the Master Bathroom are the two biggest points of value in your house. If they suck, you could have beauty all around and within your house and it wouldn't matter. No one likes to be restless in the restroom, or feel awkward in the kitchen.

    11.) HVAC or Heating, Venting, and Air Conditioning. Is it old or new? What brand is it? Old systems 10-15+ years, depending on the model, will cost you more and more the older they get, both in terms of fixing them and in terms of how poorly they do their job. Look up the brand in the house you're looking to buy. Check consumer reports. Is it good? Will you have to replace it soon? My favorite brand is TRANE, but there's a lot of high-quality energy efficient models out there, and there's 20x as many BAD systems. Do your homework on this one.



    posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 12:35 PM
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    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    I read this whole thread and all I could find was sound financial advice from thelibra.


    What exactly is the conspiracy here?


    You would be correct. That is exactly the point of this thread. There is no "conspiracy of the rich" as far as I'm concerned, because there doesn't need to be. Because interest works the way it does, because math works the way it does, because markets cycle the way they do, the rich don't need to enact any kind of grand conspiracy to keep other people poor. If they do, it's just to be a complete jerk, but to be honest, that's not really enough motivation for most people.


    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    What exactly is the conspiracy here? The NWO is surely not made up of people saving 10% or whatever of their salary a month?


    Actually, yes, that's exactly what wealthy people do, though the percentage may vary according to their means. If they don't, they don't stay wealthy long.



    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    The NWO is made up of Super-rich individuals. Ten percent of the population holds 2/3 of the wealth.


    Yeah... I've heard all sorts of statistics like that, and they all say x-% of the wealth is held by y-% of the people. And not a single one has agreed with any of the other stats.

    But let me tell you... I don't care. I really don't. Their wealth in no way, shape, or form, affects my ability to become rich. If they have even the slightest influence over my ability to gain wealth, it is because they might own a company I have invested in, and their actions as members of the board might temporarily affect the stock price of one of the stocks I own.

    Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Ted Turner are all "Super Rich". What possible, even slightest remote reason could they have for wanting to prevent me from becoming rich? They may want to put my company out of business. They may want to buy my house and develop over it. They may want to buy the services I subscribe to and then cut all the quality to hell...all to further their own nefarious business aims... but why the hell would any of them ever care about whether or not I was becoming wealthy? There simply isn't any rational or logical reason to fear those people unless you decide to start a vendetta against them, and in that case, you kinda would have it coming.

    But say, for some insane reason, that not only did my piddly middle-class arse show up on their radar, but that they decide that I needed to stay poor. Short of having me declared a terrorist to freeze all my accounts and assets, what can they do to stop me from opening a savings account, or buying stocks? What can they do to keep me from ever earning a living at anything? What can they do to keep me from setting aside 10%+ of my earnings? They could pay someone to have me killed, I suppose, but then again, so could my next door neighbor.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that using the existance of Super-Rich, or the imagination of a world-wide conspiracy to keep them super-rich, as an excuse to remain poor, is a serious lack of reason and logic. Can you think of any reason why one shouldn't try to better themselves just because people like Bill Gates exist?


    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    Rags to Riches stories are mostly mythical. The fact remains that a large part of income is inherited not earned.


    I believe you are mistaken about this, according to everything I've read, except where daughters are concerned. The prevelent attitude among the new, first generation rich, according to survey, after survey, after survey, and just about every book I've read is that they will provide their sons with the best education they can, and teach them everything they know about money, but that their fortunes will be up to them to make. They do not, however, feel that the world offers women the same advantages yet, and so in addition to the training they give their sons, they will also give their daughters "seed money" to help them make up for the gender gap inherent in the system. Warren Buffet is another prime example of this.

    Now this isn't to say there's not also Old Money families. But so what? What does any of this have to do with whether or not Joe Blow down the street can become rich as well?

    Rags to Riches is not mythology. I am living proof of this. I wasn't born any luckier, wealthier, or smarter, than any other kid from the bad side of the tracks, but at my present rate of increase, I will be considered wealthy within the next five to ten years, and I will have cheated no one, I will have stolen nothing, I will have been a burden on nobody. What'd I do? I saved. I upgraded my interest rates when I could. I listened when someone gave advice. That's not mythology, it's common sense, and commonly available.


    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    If you go with the 60% estimate, Wessel notes, then rich peoples' inherited edge - and poor peoples' inherited disadvantage - go back as far as five generations. That happens to take us back to the end of the Civil War and the constitutional abolition of slavery.


    Again... so what? How does this in any way affect my ability to improve myself? I refuse to accept or instill a defeatest attitude just because someone's great great great grandaddy thought to sock away some pennies for a rainy day. It has no_effect_upon_me_now.

    I started off with a serious disadvantage, and I went to an even worse state, and yet here I am, climbing up up up...



    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    The NWO is real. Social class wars are real.


    Meh. (shrug)

    So what? The poor have never felt any love for the rich in any time in history. That doesn't give them any excuse to blame them for staying poor. A self-defeatist attitude doesn't bring the rich down, it only keeps the poor man keeping himself down.

    And even if the NWO does exist, frankly, I'd rather be in their good graces, if not actually running the show myself. Life sucks too much at the bottom of the pile to want to go back out of some sort of misguided sense that the poor are in any way more noble than the rich. Lemme tell you, firsthand, they aren't. Human is human is human.



    Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
    Note: I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad a few years back. It’s content is very similar to the book your referring to.


    A good book indeed, with sound advice, but less approachable to the layman than "Richest Man in Babylon".

    Now please don't take anything I said in this post personally, I did the best I could to address the misconceptions rather than you. And obviously, if you've read "Rich Dad..." then you will have seen the sense in a lot of this thread.

    My stance remains that there really isn't a conspiracy of the rich, there doesn't need to be, and that anyone in a free market economy can become rich, regardless of how poor they were born.







     
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