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The 5 Laws of Gold: (aka the conspiracy of the rich)

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posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by RANT


I agree that from the most limited of perspectives one may apply a very retarded view of the world ignoring all integral relationships and think "profit" is a matter of spontaneous creation, with no loss of energy or negative economic impact elsewhere...

But I choose not to be retarded.


Rant I really hate to say this, but I have just lost all respect I have for you, which it may surprise you to know was actually quite a bit, despite our differences.
Your financial success, or mine or the libra's does not negatvly impact anyone else. Period.
You, the libra or I becomming wealthy does not hinge on another becoming impoverished. To say any different is to show a fundamental lack of understanding of economics.


[edit on 14-3-2005 by mwm1331]




posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Your financial success, or mine or the libra's does not negatvly impact anyone else. Period.
You, the libra or I becomming wealthy does not hinge on another becoming impoverished. To say any different is to show a fundamental lack of understanding of economics.


Given that I'm at the disadvantage of drawing upon all of human history for my understanding of how one accumulates and consolidates wealth, perhaps you could invest some time and energies in explaining the fresh perspective that:

Everyone can get rich. Not just anyone, everyone.
As not even thelibra is asserting that any longer.

Let's establish the groundwork that "rich" is a relative term subject to the decreased purchasing power of inflation.

In the case you didn't mean what you said...


Originally posted by mwm1331
True not everyone can attain wealth on a bill gates level but so what? That does not mean that everyone can not starting from zero retire wealthy, which was really what the principles the libra posted were about.
(bold added)

But rather you meant anyone, I've already conceded something similar myself earlier in the thread about advancing personal wealth via these disciplines.

In that case, the only disagreement remaining is my saying the consolidation of wealth necessitates a vacuum of wealth...somewhere, and I suppose you saying it doesn't.

If we're on the same page up until there, let's explore that.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by RANT]



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 07:43 AM
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No rant I mantain everyone can become wealthy.
Everyone.
However that wll not happen, not because it cant, but becuase most are unwilling to make the sacrfices necessary t achieve it. However the limiting factor is not opportunty, itis peoples desire to sacrifice.
There is no second law of thermodynamics when it comes to money Rant, Money is created all the time.
Now that does not mean that some will not be richer than others, there will always be those on the top, and those on the bottom, however there is no reason why the bottom can not be redifined. That is to say no reason that everyone could not have at least the same wealth as the middle class do today.
No dont get me wrong those people would still be on the bottom in relation to everyone else, however that bottom would no longer be quite so depressing.



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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The next portion I would like to work on is paying off debt.
We'll start with a a question from el_illumbrato...


Originally posted by el_illumbrato
maybe u should clear ur debt 1st BEFORE you start saving just so ur not wasting money on interest?

thats what im trying to do. All my other money is invested in books


Speaking personally, I've never considered money spent on books as a waste, though unless one is collecting rare books, they cannot truly be considered an investment in the monetary sense. An investment in knowledge, however, certainly... but moving onward...

Debt is indeed a liability that must be paid down. Not neccesarily paid off, because there's good debt, and there's bad debt. First, in brief, the difference between them:

GOOD DEBT - One example of Good Debt is when you have a balance where you have made regular, timely payments, never late, for at least a year, and the total amount of all your debt owed, combined, is less than 25% of your total credit limit from all sources. This is considered the optimal situation for Purposes of lending (such as a house). It is a good idea to have at least three "Credit Lines", which is basically the above, but from 3 different sources. They need not be a credit card; a credit line can be a house payment, rent, utility bill, financing on something from a store, car payment, phone bill, or anything where there has been an agreement to pay X amount, regularly, for over a year, and is in your name. If you are partnered with someone, and place their name as an authorized user, it allows them to share that credit line, without hurting your credit (unless they then run up your bill and refuse to pay it). If your name is not on the line of credit, you cannot use it.

One might think that having zero debt is better than having 1-25% debt. While this is philosophically true, such does not apply in the world of business. One must "prove themselves currently worthy in order to be considered for more credit, or a loan. Knowing this, should you pay down that Sears card, or Visa, or whatever, to a zero balance, do not close the account. You can keep the balance at zero, and maintain that same line of credit, for up to a year before it starts to be considered less and less. So, perhaps once a year, put something on the card, and pay it down. This is the fastest way to improve your credit short of a new social security number. And since that's illegal, I'll let someone else go into that.

BAD DEBT - Bad Debt is any debt you are not making payments on, or have made late payments on within the last year. It's also debt where your owed amount exceeds 25% of your total credit limit. In short, don't run up your credit cards, and don't pay late. Now, most companies only report if you are late by 30+ days. However, there are exceptions. One of which is your apartment complex or mortgage company. Never be late on those. They hurt your history the most. Car payments typically only report if you are more than 30 days late. Credit cards, it varies. But the fact of the matter is that you should always pay on time, because one single missed payment starts that credit line over again, and you'll need to make timely payments for a year.

HOW THIS AFFECTS YOU - Good debt, bad debt, so what, it's all debt, right? Wrong. Debt is a lot like deeds; bad ones count 100x more than good ones. So why even bother trying? For the same reason that you try to be a good person, because you presumably want to better yourself. If you can pay off your bad debt, and maintain several lines of good debt for a year, you will find people begging to give you credit. Do it for two years, and people will beg to give you a loan. Do it for seven years, and you might just have the limit removed from some of your credit cards.

The better your credit, the more people want to extend credit to you, because they know you will pay it back in a timely fashion.

Now, assuming you're convinced, let's focus on how to pay off debt. Here's the steps, I assure they are quite possible, and that they work, but the discipline is up to the reader.

HOW TO PAY OFF BAD DEBT AND PAY DOWN GOOD DEBT - Before reading this, you need to be following the 5 Laws of Gold, and the 7 Cures for a Lean Purse. If you are setting nothing aside for yourself in the interim, you are losing out on all the interest you can accrue. Saving, and setting aside that 10% for YOU, before you pay anyone else, is vital to a healthy financial future. If you can't even find 10% to set aside (maybe 5% instead), then this next part will need to be adjusted accordingly. However, it is recommended you use these percentages. I can personally vouch that it works extremely well.

  1. Budget 20% of your income to pay off debts - In addition to the 10% you use for savings, you need to set aside 20% to pay off bad debt. Surviving on 70% of your income may seem like a daunting task, but if you have truly budgeted correctly, you should find that you waste more than 30% of your income anyway. So instead of wasting it, better yourself with it. Rather than buy a $5 cup of Starbucks each morning, try just brewing a pot of coffee at home, and using a plastic go-cup. Things like that add up, every day, and can be put to much better use. The important part is to have the 20% ready to go.

  2. Allocating the 20% - 20% doesn't sound like much, but it adds up tremendously well. However, the wisest way to use it is sometimes a question. Should you pay off one at a time, or divide it up evenly among all your creditors? The answer depends upon your situation.

    • If you owe any charge-offs that you have not been making payments on, then you would do well to split that 20% into 10% (into another savings account) and 10% to go towards regular payment of other debt. With the remaining 10% of the debt money, start accumulating enough that you can call and make an offer to pay off your debt for, say 25%, but actually able to haggle up to 50-60% if needed. You agree to pay that lump sum only if they'll agree to cut you a deal (covered later in this post)

    • If you have no charge offs, just late payments (or more than 25% owed) - Then divide the 20% among all your creditors, as best you can, and let them know that that is the maxmimum payment per month that you are able to make at the moment. As long as you are paying SOMETHING, regularly, every single month, then at the very least, you can turn it into Good Debt.

    • Your Finance Charges are extremely costly on a couple of items (like high-interest credit cards) - If you have a 15+% finance charge on a credit card, you are paying $15 for every $100 you owe on that card. Owe $400? Your debt goes up $60 per month. Pay it down ASAP! Devote all 20% to paying down your balances on these cards until there is practically nothing on the card, and then stop using that card and get one with a lower interest rate. After these horrible money burners are taken care of, you can focus on your slower debts.

  3. Pay in a timely manner, always - I cannot stress this enough. The longer you pay in a timely manner, the better your credit is regardless of what or how much you owe. If you can't afford a payment that month, then call their office and see if you can arrange for lower payments or a partial payment to play catchup the next month (assuming it was just a bad month). But do not wait until after the payment is late to do so, otherwise they can report it however they like. If you contact them beforehand, and arrange a partial payment, you can usually avoid it being reported on your credit record.

  4. Make your debt work in your favor. - Always be working towards "Good Debt", with the lowest possible finance charges. As you pay your debts, people will start offering you credit cards. If it requires a monthly charge to get the card, forget it. Shred the paper and then throw it away. If, however, they offer it to you free of a monthly service charge, then go ahead and open the account, put a meal on it, and remember to pay off the balance next month. Boom. You've just activated a new line of credit, which raises your credit limit (thus making it easier to owe less than 25% of your total credit limit). I fully at admit, this is an illusion, it's a big smoke and mirrors ploy, but that's unfortunately exactly how credit works. Your credit limit is metaphorically the measure of trust that other companies have in you. The higher your limit, the more they trust you. The more they trust you, the more banks and lenders will trust you when you want to buy a house or car.

  5. Once your debt is all "Good Debt", keep it that way - It should be easy to maintain "Good Debt" once you have it, because you will have become used to living off 70% of your income, and now you suddenly have another 20% to work with. Add to your savings with it, or use it for more improvements, put it towards whatever you will or want, but whatever you do, don't go back to bad credit, because no one cares if your credit used to be spotless. They only care if it's been spotless for the last 2-7 years.


    That's it for my advice on paying off debt. I hope it makes sense. If you have any questions, as usual, please ask. The next segment will probably be posted tomorrow, but I'll be able to answer questions today.




    [edit on 3/14/2005 by thelibra]



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Despite your obstinance...


Originally posted by mwm1331
No rant I mantain everyone can become wealthy.
Everyone.


You have just conceded not everyone can become "rich" and joined thelibra and I where we were on page one of this discussion before you came along... See the following and understand the shift in premise.



Now that does not mean that some will not be richer than others, there will always be those on the top, and those on the bottom, however there is no reason why the bottom can not be redifined. That is to say no reason that everyone could not have at least the same wealth as the middle class do today.


That's not rich. I have always maintained the poor and middle class are more similar and fluid than the rich, and for all intensive purposes interchangable, intrinsically affiliated, and alligned of interest. That the poor can achieve this modest standard of living is not in contention. In fact, it's the Democratic platform. Thanks for your support.

Here's the real argument (off topic as it is... sorry Libra)...


There is no second law of thermodynamics when it comes to money Rant, Money is created all the time.


Please explain. I don't see how money is created without the resulting force of inflation making it's creation irrelevant, or a necessitated "correction" to any temporary bubble. I'm talking value, quality of life, purchasing power... not dollars in pocket.

In fact, the concept of money creationism
defeats the concept of free market competition doesn't it? What are we competing for but each other's money?

And to the extent it is not created at all but rather taken from someone, where do I get a dollar if not from someone else? In the pure example of "interest" from a bank, that's not spontaneous generation and you know it.

I make $1 in interest on my $100, the bank makes $9, and my neighbor loses $10 in his mortgage payment. That's where my dollar came from. The house always wins, while the rest of us take turns winning and losing.

Hopefully, you can apply this to the macro yourself with an example like Wal-Mart consolidating wealth specifically on the failure and empoverishment of others.

This whole prescription of 5 laws though really isn't a universal one, it's for the poor. I get that more now. Be frugal, sacrifice... learn your place even ... and you'll get there.

You're not of the entreprenuerial class. You're not of the wealthy class. You don't even belong in the free market competition (where some win and some lose) for you are bound to lose. No. Don't compete. Submit. Slow and steady, while you make the rich richer....and you'll get there. We of the NWO promise.
Let the other fools part with their money (with some getting quite rich) while you plod along for decades in support of the system.


Yeah, I'm feeling this.



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
Please explain. I don't see how money is created without the resulting force of inflation making it's creation irrelevant, or a necessitated "correction" to any temporary bubble. I'm talking value, quality of life, purchasing power... not dollars in pocket.

In fact, the concept of money creationism
defeats the concept of free market competition doesn't it? What are we competing for but each other's money?


On the Federal Reserve and the Banking System
ingrimayne.saintjoe.edu...

How Banks "Create" Money
ingrimayne.saintjoe.edu...

It's really complicated, and I don't pretend to understand it in its entirety, but basically banks create money when they loan it out, or when checks are written and a central bank is used, and money is destroyed when loans are repaid.



Originally posted by RANT
Hopefully, you can apply this to the macro yourself with an example like Wal-Mart consolidating wealth specifically on the failure and empoverishment of others.


Yes, and this is a negative example of how wealth is generated. There are, however, positive examples of how it is generated. Regardless, it's a Darwinistic system, survival of the fittest. If the competing stores offered the same quality merchandise at lower prices, then Wal-Mart would go out of business.


Originally posted by RANT
This whole prescription of 5 laws though really isn't a universal one, it's for the poor. I get that more now. Be frugal, sacrifice... learn your place even ... and you'll get there.


I must disagree. As previously pointed out, even the rich need to follow the 5 Laws or else they will lose their wealth. This is the reason that some of yesterday's Forbes 50 are now Forbes 500, or worse.

The 5 Laws of Gold are not some cure for poverty, they are a style of living. Don't think of them as "How to get rich" but rather "How to manage my money". If you become rich from them, and then stop, you will lose your wealth. If you continue following them, you will remain wealthy.

It's sort of like religion, in a way, only you have tangible results. It's a way of life, if your money were considered alive.


Originally posted by RANT
You're not of the entreprenuerial class. You're not of the wealthy class. You don't even belong in the free market competition (where some win and some lose) for you are bound to lose. No. Don't compete. Submit. Slow and steady, while you make the rich richer....and you'll get there. We of the NWO promise.
Let the other fools part with their money (with some getting quite rich) while you plod along for decades in support of the system.


Yeah, I'm feeling this.


Okay, for five minutes, pretend we live in a fantasy world where there are no puppeteers, or NWO, or Reptillian Psychic Vampires from Atlantis. Please. Just...pretend that all that is fantasy.

Now, let's take an even bigger leap of faith, and assume that maybe the monetary system and the 5 Laws of Gold work just because it's a good system, and that it's tried and true.

The Laws still work, for the same exact reasons, either way. Not everything has to be part of a bloody conspiracy.



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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The Libra.



Really good posts, well written. I agree with you on money management and budget being the key.

I'm 18, pay for my own place in Oxfordshire (England, rather expensive area)(although my parents took out the loan for the house), go to College, 5days a week, have enough time to work and enjoy my life and I'm learning to drive and finance a 1998 BMW.

If you can budget and you're willing to work your ass off it can be done. I get no money from an outside source. None what so ever and the only money I owe is the one for the house, that's in my parents names. (I've been paying it since I was 16.)



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Hey Libra,
I agree with your basic premise that anyone can improve their situation, but the devils advocate in me has to ask;

how does posting ideas which are the equivalent of, "buy low, sell high" prove any of your statements ?

I don't think its a revelation that US citizens enjoy upward mobility. What does that have to do with how the fed was set-up or how int'l bankers orchestrate or encourage wars to their own benefit ?

how does a sub- saharan african orphan of aids get any gold to begin with when the first concern is living through the day ?


(btw, my favorite money book is think and grow rich, napoleon hill or the greatest salesman in the world, Og Mandino)

[edit on 14-3-2005 by syrinx high priest]



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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The point of that book is independance, and through independance a far better lifestyle. Wealth isnt just the amount of money in your bank account. it is being able to take time off work, to travel, to explore, to contribute to your social passion; homeless, hungry, aids, whatever. Wealthy people attract not for the monetary value alone. It is because wealthy people are doing what they want, they are interesting to be around, and invest in their interests.

The Economic principles laid out in this book are very very old. There are wonderful sumerian tablets with similar principles; taking out a loan is as easy as sex. Paying it back is as difficult as giving birth, and many more to instruct young people how to manage their money. America sucks at teaching its citizens to be financially independant.

If you doubt what the book instructs, try it for one year. What do you have to lose? nothing. On the other hand you could change your life within the space of a single year.



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
On the Federal Reserve and the Banking System
ingrimayne.saintjoe.edu...

How Banks "Create" Money
ingrimayne.saintjoe.edu...


If clicking either of those links destroys my "sophisticated" understanding of high finance (all of which comes from Frank Capra movies)... then I'm not equipped to handle the repercussions.



Originally posted by thelibra
Okay, for five minutes, pretend we live in a fantasy world where there are no puppeteers, or NWO, or Reptillian Psychic Vampires from Atlantis. Please. Just...pretend that all that is fantasy.


Or rather pretend Old Man Potter is a big teddy bear, and just wants to see me get ahead. Okay.


Now, let's take an even bigger leap of faith, and assume that maybe the monetary system and the 5 Laws of Gold work just because it's a good system, and that it's tried and true.


This is my general non-skeptical approach to all infomercials. I buy everything I see or read. Especially if prefaced with "Five Easy Steps... Guaranteed" because then I know it's truly a philanthropic enterprise designed to advance humanity. Or when anonymous people bearing witness on the internet claim no ulterior motive. Also a sure sign I can trust them.



The Laws still work, for the same exact reasons, either way. Not everything has to be part of a bloody conspiracy.


Of course not, at least not a conspiracy of intent. But in the most neutral sense of the word, everything is part of a "conspiracy" or at least has causal implications. And this is either a way to "work the system" or it's a way to "work you" or most likely a combination of both. Not to be offensive about it, just to explain where I'm coming from... but we do have a literature forum. You put this in the NWO forum in part as evidence there was no NWO, right? Should you get no argument or counter evidence to that assertion?

I'll argue with anybody by the way just to advance and illuminate both sides of an issue. So it's nothing personal or that I necessarily hold a firm position on this either way... I'm just vetting it.



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 02:35 AM
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Rant you still seem to miss the point about creating money.
The libra is correct every single time a bank lends money it is in fact creating money.
Your example of walmart is both incorrect and inept, yeswalmart doesput some busnesses out of business, however that is the natural way of things, competition you know. A word you democrats hate to hear

However to look at how money may be created simply look at microsoft, they created not only money, but an entire market (with a little help from apple) Which had never prevously existed along with all the wealth of opportuninties and jobs which come with it.
Now on to our main point of contention can everybody be wealthy? yes.
However that will never happen, simply becuase most aren't willing to do the work required.
You posted about how this was nothing more than way of ssayng "your a slave get used to it" Untrue, the simple fact is you cant "get rich quick" it doesn't happen ever. I know I know it sure seems to happen, people who go from rags to riches overnight, but in every single case you will find that they have been working on those riches for many years.

However your biggest fallcy is still in beliveing that the poor are poor de to a conspiracy to keep them down rather than thier own choices.
Now do not misunderstand me, I am not saying that they consiously choose to be poor as such, rather than the natural and inevitible consequences of thier day to day choices consign them to poverty. Everytime a poor man goes down to the local pub he is making a choice which keeps him poor. Everytime he spends 15-20 bucks on a CD he is making a choice which keeps him poor. Everytime he goes out to dinner at a restarant rather than staying home and cooking he is making a choice whch keeps him poor, and every single time he votes democrat he is makng a choice which keeps hm poor. Now you may believe Rant that my last comment was a unecessary political dig, it was not. But the fact is it is the democratic intinatives which in large part are responsible for the poverty in America today.
High taxes, social support which reduces a mans self suffeciency and most importantly the atttude of entitlement. When a man thinks the world owes him a living he can never climb out of the hole he is in. When he believes he is being held down he is in fact holding hmself down. You see Rant, what you fail to understand is that the only thing which can hold a man down for more than a little while is himself.If he refuses to be held down nothing in this world can keep him there. There is no vast rght wing conspiracy to keep the little man little, there is only the little mans inabillity to understand what he needs to do to get bigger.



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
I'm 18, pay for my own place in Oxfordshire (England, rather expensive area)(although my parents took out the loan for the house), go to College, 5days a week, have enough time to work and enjoy my life and I'm learning to drive and finance a 1998 BMW.

If you can budget and you're willing to work your ass off it can be done. I get no money from an outside source. None what so ever and the only money I owe is the one for the house, that's in my parents names. (I've been paying it since I was 16.)



Excellent, Odium! (And everyone else who has posted their support or personal experiences with these ideas) These principles really do work.



Originally posted by syrinx high priest
how does posting ideas which are the equivalent of, "buy low, sell high" prove any of your statements ?


Actually, that's not the equivolent at all. What I am stating, in brief, is that one should learn to save, learn to budget, and always look for ways to make your money and your assets more profitable, and you will, in time, become rich.


Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I don't think its a revelation that US citizens enjoy upward mobility. What does that have to do with how the fed was set-up or how int'l bankers orchestrate or encourage wars to their own benefit ?


It isn't. Coincidentally, it's also not about Grays, Psychic Vampires, Black Triangles, the Illuminati, or the Masons. Odd... one would expect all those things in a thread about the conspiracy of the rich... How extremely unoriginal of me.


Originally posted by syrinx high priest
how does a sub- saharan african orphan of aids get any gold to begin with when the first concern is living through the day ?


I don't know. In a similar fashion, there will probably not be any whales saved by this thread either. Nor will this post save us from the 2012 meteor. However, I have it on good authority that, assuming we survive through whatever people think will destroy the world on a semi-yearly basis, that one will need money to get by, and what this thread does cover is how one can ensure a steady financial future in a capitalist economy.



Originally posted by toolmaker
If you doubt what the book instructs, try it for one year. What do you have to lose? nothing. On the other hand you could change your life within the space of a single year.


It's true. I am asking no one to buy anything (except possibly a book, but if you have a library card, you can read it for free). I don't want anyone's money (except my own, of course), and I've got zero agenda here except that I'm out to prove that you don't have to be a part of a conspiracy to be wealthy.



Originally posted by RANT
Or rather pretend Old Man Potter is a big teddy bear, and just wants to see me get ahead. Okay.


(blink) Errr... sure. Whatever gets you to continue reading. I kinda prefer the idea of being wealthy without losing one's soul as being a motivator, but if an old guy and a teddy bear do it, then more power to the teddy bear.



Originally posted by RANT
This is my general non-skeptical approach to all infomercials. I buy everything I see or read. Especially if prefaced with "Five Easy Steps... Guaranteed" because then I know it's truly a philanthropic enterprise designed to advance humanity. Or when anonymous people bearing witness on the internet claim no ulterior motive. Also a sure sign I can trust them.



I'm not sure how to read this, as tone of voice is somewhat removed in a textual format, but I'm just going to hazard a guess that this was a tad bit tongue-in-cheek.

Rant, if I were trying to be an infomercial, I'd be putting up an 800 number, or leaving an address where people could contact me for "more info", or selling something, or trying to get something out of this.

The only damn thing I'm getting out of this is carpal tunnel, and a bit of frustration at having to re-explain myself over and over again.


Originally posted by RANT
but we do have a literature forum. You put this in the NWO forum in part as evidence there was no NWO, right? Should you get no argument or counter evidence to that assertion?


Ah, no, actually. I put this here as evidence that you don't have to be a part of the NWO to become rich. Big difference. I leave myself open to the possibility that there is an NWO, but I completely reject the blanket idea that all rich people are evil, or that the NWO keeps people poor. Ceterus Paribus, people keep themselves poor. They don't need some NWO to do it for them. That's like trying to blame the media for ignorance.


Originally posted by RANT
I'll argue with anybody by the way just to advance and illuminate both sides of an issue. So it's nothing personal or that I necessarily hold a firm position on this either way... I'm just vetting it.


And I appreciate the dialogue, I really do. However, some fresh material, or questions related to the actual thread would prevent me from having to type the same thing over and over. I'd understand if it were several different users saying the same thing, or if you weren't someone whose intellect wasn't exactly up to snuff. However, it's just you, you're quite intelligent, but you just keep touting the same lines about the NWO.

If you can appreciate the idea for what it is, then rather than being contrary for the sake of being contrary, perhaps you could be contrary in a way that actually advances the topic of this thread?


Originally posted by mwm1331
However to look at how money may be created simply look at microsoft, they created not only money, but an entire market


Well, technically, they didn't create money, they created jobs. Lots and lots and lots of jobs. Especially in tech support. They created a lot of millionaires, but non-lending institutions don't actually create money (at least not legally). Now indirectly, I suppose one could say that the jobs created more demand for banks, and those extra banks created more money.


Originally posted by mwm1331
However your biggest fallcy is still in beliveing that the poor are poor due to a conspiracy to keep them down rather than thier own choices. Now do not misunderstand me, I am not saying that they consiously choose to be poor as such, rather than the natural and inevitible consequences of thier day to day choices consign them to poverty...

...the only thing which can hold a man down for more than a little while is himself.If he refuses to be held down nothing in this world can keep him there. There is no vast rght wing conspiracy to keep the little man little, there is only the little mans inabillity to understand what he needs to do to get bigger.


The political stuff snipped out, I agree with this 100%. I suppose you could almost call the idea of this thread a conspiracy of the poor to become the wealthy, to turn the pyramid upside down. Or perhaps the "hourglass" would be a better metaphor, as it's more of a rearrangement of individuals, rather than an inversion of everyone's status.

Riches can be suddenly gained, through luck or inheritance, but without the knowledge and practice of the 5 Laws of Gold, that money will either disappear just as quickly, or dwindle slowly over time, due to poor investment.

This knowledge gives you an advantage over the man who is born rich, because unless the "Born Rich" learn these laws, they will one day be just like the rest of the poor.



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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Nice post thelibra(though I'd disagree with some parts),but what does it have to do with the NWO?




Originally posted by mwm1331
No rant I mantain everyone can become wealthy.
Everyone.


Are you saying that everyone,simultaneously,can be rich at a given time?



However that wll not happen, not because it cant, but becuase most are unwilling to make the sacrfices necessary t achieve it. However the limiting factor is not opportunty, itis peoples desire to sacrifice.


Well you're right that it will never happen,but I don't know how you reached your conclusion as to why.



There is no second law of thermodynamics when it comes to money Rant, Money is created all the time.



If money can simply be created then how can capitalism work?



[edit on 15-3-2005 by Loungerist]



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Loungerist
...but what does it have to do with the NWO?


I actually adressed this in the very first post of this thread, and many many times afterwards in response to RANT's posts. Rather than retype the reponses, it'd be easier just to go back and read them. In short, it's arguing against the case that you have to be part of the NWO in order to become wealthy, and attacks the idea that the NWO keeps people poor.


Originally posted by Loungerist
If money can simply be created then how can capitalism work?


It doesn't. That's why the U.S. fell to the Soviet Union, and why Cuba became such a powerful nation. After the entire world was blanketed in Communism, with only tiny pockets of Capitalistic nations left, it should be obvious why it never worked.


All joking aside. It works because money is also destroyed. Though whether more is created than destroyed, or vice versa, varies per so many circumstances as to be almost incalculable. It basically breaks even.



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra

I actually adressed this in the very first post of this thread, and many many times afterwards in response to RANT's posts. Rather than retype the reponses, it'd be easier just to go back and read them. In short, it's arguing against the case that you have to be part of the NWO in order to become wealthy, and attacks the idea that the NWO keeps people poor.


I read your posts but I guess you're referring to some other incarnation of the NWO theory than I'm familiar with,because so far as I know it's not an attack against the poor so much as an intent to keep power in chosen places. And it deals with a level of rich far beyond what your post was about.





All joking aside. It works because money is also destroyed. Though whether more is created than destroyed, or vice versa, varies per so many circumstances as to be almost incalculable. It basically breaks even.


Sounds like redistribution and not creation or destruction to me. How exactly are you defining "creating money" here?



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Loungerist
I read your posts but I guess you're referring to some other incarnation of the NWO theory than I'm familiar with,because so far as I know it's not an attack against the poor so much as an intent to keep power in chosen places. And it deals with a level of rich far beyond what your post was about.


I'm glad we're on the same page. However there are some under the impression that the NWO does everything from eating people's babies to keeping people poor, and that only those selected by the NWO will be allowed to be rich, etc...etc... Basically, everything that people used to blame on Satan, they now blame on the NWO.

This post is to address one specific aspect that people keep blaming on the NWO: the fact that other people are rich, and they aren't. What I'm attempting to prove is that, in a capitalistic economy, if someone has the ability to earn a wage, they have the ability to become rich, using budeting skills, savings, and making one's life profitable.

I know this probably sounds like common sense, and your lips are already forming around the letters D, U, and H. But, believe it or not, there are a lot of people on this board who would rather think that there is some global conspiracy designed to keep them as poor drones for eternity, and blame them for everything, rather than actually take control of their life and excercise a little frickin' discipline.


Originally posted by Loungerist

by thelibra
All joking aside. It works because money is also destroyed. Though whether more is created than destroyed, or vice versa, varies per so many circumstances as to be almost incalculable. It basically breaks even.


Sounds like redistribution and not creation or destruction to me. How exactly are you defining "creating money" here?


Again, this is addressed earlier, in a response to Rant, on this same page, with two links to sites that explain it in great complex detail, as well as a brief summary of what it means. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'd just like to be able to advance the topic past something already covered.



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra
Assuming no change in my wage, for the rest of my life, I will have $1.7 million dollars in liquid cash in 35 years. How many of you can say the same thing, right now?


The only problem is that in 35 years you will need approximately $4 million to have the same buying power of $1.7 million--though $1.7 million is not bad!



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by thelibra
Again, this is addressed earlier, in a response to Rant, on this same page, with two links to sites that explain it in great complex detail, as well as a brief summary of what it means. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'd just like to be able to advance the topic past something already covered.


But as you said,you don't understand them in their entirety so I was trying to get you to present your own definition of "creating money"(not the link's),which is not actually what is done so far as I understand it. I was trying to remove the phrase "creating money" from the discussion if that's not really what is meant. Because since you've already agreed that we cannot ALL be rich at the same time I assume you don't actually mean creating money in the literal sense as MWM appears to.

Basically I was just trying to nip further confusion in the bud.



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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the point is that we like to heap blame on the rich and b;lame the rich for da evils of the world, one thing else do u know the positive thinking , could help us in awway achieve financial independence. How many of us heard ppl near to us, or even ourselves, lambast the rich? hmm, just my $$ million dolar though



posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
The only problem is that in 35 years you will need approximately $4 million to have the same buying power of $1.7 million--though $1.7 million is not bad!


Ah, a very good point indeed. True enough, though it's an entire world better than the couple of hundred dollars a month social security will be sending you. Also, keep in mind this is only through one single method of savings, the Roth IRA.

Which brings me to today's topic of discussion on this thread:

DIVERSIFYING, UPGRADING, AND EXPANDING YOUR SAVINGS

Many people are under the impression that savings is savings, and any interest you get will be pretty small compared to what is placed into it. While in the beginning this is true, after a relatively short amount of time, your monthly interest payment should be greater than or equal to what you actually put into it.
Try not to think of your savings as a static entity that grows cobwebs, but rather think of every penny in savings as an worker in your employment. You want some of your workers to produce long term results that pay off big in the end. You want some of your workers to go into producing results for expansion of the business, and you have your grunt workers brining in the pennies until they get promoted.

Keeping this in mind, let us categorize savings into three main categories:

RETIREMENT SAVINGS: - These are your savings that will be added to, but never withdrawn from until late in life. These funds are sacred, and the only way they pay off is by never touching them until they mature. This is where the bulk of your living money will come from when you are older, and no longer producing any income (unless you love work that much). Examples of this are IRAs and Annuities. You won't be touching these funds until you're ready to quit working, and (probably) have passed age 65, and the minimum balance is usually going to run in the tens of thousands. Interest for these is going to run typically anywhere from 7%-12%.

LONG TERM SAVINGS: - This is where you keep money for years at a time, but is liquid enough to withdraw with a few months notice, or with minimum penalties. This is the sort of savings you would use to make a downpayment on a house, or put the kids through college, or buy a car, or whatever large expense that can be planned for. Examples of this are laddered CDs, low-risk stocks, Mutual Funds, Ginnie Maes, and T-Bills. The minimum balance for the better long-term interest bearers is going to be at least $2,000-10,000. Interest for these is typically going to run 2%-6%

SHORT TERM SAVINGS: - This is a combination pool for funds that you are waiting to graduate to a better account (like a minimum $2500 desposit tier, for instance), emergency cash for things like car trouble, and rainy day impulses, like a new video card. Examples of this are a branch-bank savings account and money market accounts. The minimum balance can be $0-200 in most cases. The interest received from this is a paltry 0.3%-2% in the best of times.


In order to effectively manage your savings portfolio, you need to diversify or concentrate in order to meet your needs on a changing basis. Obviously, the more money you earn, the more leeway one has, one way or the other, but since interest from long and short term savings counts as earnings, you should always be gaining leeway. However, there are a few rules of thumb to consider:

  • The amount that goes into your retirement savings should always be steady. - If there ever comes a time when you absolutely have to skip saving a full 10%, deposit first to the retirement savings, then to short term, then to long term. The reason is that retirement accounts require a very long time to mature, and missing a single deposit can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of interest in the long run. And the reason you would deposit next to Short Term, in lieu of Long Term, is because if times are bad enough that you had to sacrifice saving in one of your three types, then you probably need to have some emergency liquid cash in standby, and you don't want it tied up in Long Term funds.

  • Always go for compound interest when saving, and simple interest when borrowing. - For those who slept through economics and math, compound interest accumulates per a pre-arranged time period, whereas simple interest only earns on the principle. Additionally, compounding periods can vary in their effectiveness. For instance, $5,000 compounded yearly at 9%, for 35 years, yields $102,069.84 whereas the same amount, compounded monthly, earns $115,316.92 - And compounded daily earns $116,635.03

  • Keep your eye on the APY - Today's best Ginnie Mae's accounts may be outdone by tomorrow's Money Market accounts. Though your retirement savings should pretty much always stay in the same place, your long and short term savings should be moved to better percentages when they become available. Your meager $200 savings account will eventually turn into $2,000 with disciplined savings and interest. At that point, it's time to start deciding where you are going to put that money. If you've been keeping abreast of the APY for various funds till then, you should have at least a few months worth of current market experience with the fluctuations in rate.

  • Don't put your savings at risk - If you see a money market account offering 8% interest, you should know something doesn't look right. Either you need to have $50,000 in savings to put into it (if not hundreds of thousands), or the thing is a scam. Keep an eye on APY for a few months, for reputable firms, and have a good idea of what the various account types will yield. If the percent ever looks way too good to be true, it probably is.

  • Don't deposit in foreign banks - This isn't a knock at foreign countries, but rather sound advice for the inexperienced saver. By the time you need to worry about foreign banks, you will already know if you need one. Until then, I recommend staying in your native banking system where you have legal recourse with which you are familiar, should the bank fail or suddenly disappear.

  • Never, EVER, EVER give out your account numbers over the phone. EVER!!! - Have them send you a bill, or go to their office, or something like that. If you have even the slightest doubt about whether or not the request for your account information is legitimate, don't give it until you consult with a bank manager. They are quite well versed in scams, and will be more than happy to provide consultation for no charge.

  • Never stop following the 5 Laws of Gold - You have heard about rich families who are now impoverished? It's because their children didn't follow the 5 Laws of Gold. That simple. Don't believe me? Pick up any book that talks about advice from rich people who stay rich. Invariably they will always quote the same things. Pay yourself first, make your money profitable, make your investments wisely, don't put money into the hands of risk, and don't get scammed or throw it away on a game of craps.


Any questions so far? Need me to go into anything deeper before I move on to the next topic in the thread?



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