Looks like the Corona Virus absolutely came from that lab in Wuhan.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Yeah I was never convinced it came from that market because of some information I heard very early in the outbreak while the virus was still in China. Specifically it was a report from i believe an American congressman warning other congressmen about the outbreak. I dont remember his name I'll see if I can find it for you guys.

This is a great article. Very good read and nicely referenced.

Tom Cotton

Reply to Lysergic.


If you want to go the whole hog it's worse than that, the 2015 experiment did happen, no matter what.
Here's a list of the people involved,

Letter
Published: 09 November 2015
A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
Vineet D Menachery, Boyd L Yount Jr, Kari Debbink, Sudhakar Agnihothram, Lisa E Gralinski, Jessica A Plante, Rachel L Graham, Trevor Scobey, Xing-Yi Ge, Eric F Donaldson, Scott H Randell, Antonio Lanzavecchia, Wayne A Marasco, Zhengli-Li Shi & Ralph S Baric.

It's from the same 'Nature' article I have already posted.
The 2015 experiment was an international one, the actors were international, it was criticised strongly at the time, presumably as something unsafe. I don't care who the actors were, but if they brought this #up of a thing on us, even intermediately, it needs to be investigated fully, and all information fully disclosed.

a reply to: smurfy
It would mean war. Maybe we are already and are just waiting for the threat to be mitigated for a first response.

Leadership may just be waiting for more stable americans to break the news to.

Maybe the facts need to be 100% verified before that sort of accusation can even be made openly. Investigations are no doubt ongoing world wide.

originally posted by: gosseyn
Yeah, the US would never do something like that, they are too humane, and altruist, they care too much for human life.


Give this post a star if you don't believe the above statement.

So you're pushing the Chinese propaganda angle that Covid-19 was smuggled into Wuhan by US soldiers? So they released a virus into China knowing full well it was capable of spreading across the world? Your hatred for the US seems to be completely overriding your ability to make logical conclusions... what really concerns me is just how many stars you received. Seems people enjoy eating up Chinese propaganda.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

I vote liberal democrats, Hillary, in collusion with China.
China released it on their population only after finding a
way to beat the virus. They let it prevail till the US
economy began to tank and suddenly the first country to
host the out break. Has no new cases and it's stocks fell the
least in the world today I believe. The timing with the signing
of Chinese trade agreement even fits.

The Gates foundation is conducting the 201 mock pandemic at
a time when the democrats were desperate to find a way to get
rid of Trump. And they found their last resort if impeachment
failed with Gates. Once the failure was evident the Chinese got
the go ahead from, you guessed it, Madam Hillary. They released it
knowing they could cure it with chloroquine. And the rest is as they say
history.

No new cases in a country with billions of people. Are you kidding me?
Of course the democrats and Chinese had everything to gain by ruining
everything Trump had achieved.

Is there anyone who believes the demtards wouldn't keep trying?
Even their supporters know they would nuke Disneyland to ruin
Trump.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: gosseyn
Yeah, the US would never do something like that, they are too humane, and altruist, they care too much for human life.


Give this post a star if you don't believe the above statement.

So you're pushing the Chinese propaganda angle that Covid-19 was smuggled into Wuhan by US soldiers? So they released a virus into China knowing full well it was capable of spreading across the world? Your hatred for the US seems to be completely overriding your ability to make logical conclusions... what really concerns me is just how many stars you received. Seems people enjoy eating up Chinese propaganda.

I think he/she was using sarcasm, quite rightly too, as history has shown.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

They still have bars where you live ?

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

I dont think you meant to reply to me but Ill take a stab at a reply anyway...

Occam's razor: Occam's razor is a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in logic and problem-solving. It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Now look at the situation, China has a lab that is highly specialized in Wuhan, This is a fact.

Which of the following is most likely;

1: The United states managed to sneak someone into the heart of China with a pathogen without being caught and released it to start the pandemic.

2: Someone at the Lab made a mistake and the virus escaped (how does not matter) starting the pandemic.

Of those two option which is most likely to have occurred, if anyone has a third or 4th or 5th option feel free to add on to the list and lets see if we can narrow it down to the theory with the least amount of assumptions.

a reply to: toolgal462

Excellent thanks! I couldn't find it

a reply to: Irishhaf

IF the US wanted to do that which they would not, too much US capital invested in China despite economic tension's and disagreement's BUT IF the US wanted to do that they would not have chosen Wuhan but Beijing.

But it does not fit the US mode of operation at all, it does fit the history of bad laboratory protocol, poor containment and lax quarantine associated with Chinese biological laboratory's, why are the Chinese developing bio weapons in the first place when other places in the world have scaled back or completely stopped that approach to warfare.

Unless they were planning to actually use these weapon's at some point, I mean what is that with all those ghost city's they built that are now being left to decay complete with ready made office block skyscrapers both suitable for civilian and government use, cinema's, shopping mall's, entertainment complex, sport's venues, housing of a higher standard than most Chinese live in today and all built in the middle of nowhere and left with perhaps a care taker population of just a few thousand in city's meant to house ten's of million's, I do not believe for one moment those city's are just runaway communist policy or building quota's, rather they have a serous intent and are meant to be used at some point to house China's population so are they intending to evacuate to avoid a retaliatory response or to make there infrastructure more resilient by moving half a city at a time and filling these places up.

And were to these come into a possible deliberate policy that the Chinese whom have caused this (Accidentally I believe) were working toward, whom were they going to use these bio-weapon's against and I do not by the MAD response they already have chemical, nerve and nuclear capability's so why push the biological weapon's, yes there is the argument of being prepared but being prepared is not CREATING new strain's it is studying current strain's and there potential mutation pathway's and developing anti virus and anti bacterial treatment's - that is simply NOT what the Chinese were doing they were/are weaponizing pathogen's which in and of itself is a Hostile act.

Here is an old Australian documentary about ghost city's in China.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: gosseyn
Yeah, the US would never do something like that, they are too humane, and altruist, they care too much for human life.


Give this post a star if you don't believe the above statement.

So you're pushing the Chinese propaganda angle that Covid-19 was smuggled into Wuhan by US soldiers? So they released a virus into China knowing full well it was capable of spreading across the world? Your hatred for the US seems to be completely overriding your ability to make logical conclusions... what really concerns me is just how many stars you received. Seems people enjoy eating up Chinese propaganda.

Well, relax. Propaganda is coming from all sides. Do you believe what is coming from China is propaganda and what is coming from the US is benevolent information ? And if you really want my opinion on all this, I think the virus just really came from wildlife animals that they sell with exactly zero regulations and control. There are videos of markets like that in China and it's just disgusting. Cats, dogs, bats, snakes, rats and other animals I can't even name, guts, blood and filth everywhere etc., so I am not surprised. Not everything is a conspiracy.

My comment was for those who think that a virus is worse than dropping two nuclear bombs on civilians.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

the list is a farce - and manages to contradict itself - multiple times

thats not evidence - its the schreechings of idiots

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Sorry but NO, it is damning and need's to be independently investigated but of course fat chance of that under a communist regime.

That said creating this weaponized strain of a virus IS IDIOCY of the highest order and magnitude of IDIOCY.

Sadly and Shamefully though we can not blame just one nation on this matter, every scientifically evolved nation on earth has a primitive military group that want anything and everything turned into a weapon even if it never get's used, but you know biological warfare is an ancient science (if we may loosely call it that as it patently not science except when science has been perverted to it's cause).

You know something though, despite the badly handled cover up the Chinese staged that cost the lives of some very good - and unlike the makers of this virus Ethical - Chinese doctor's (true scientists not Frankenstein inspired morons) this may not even have been a central government program, China has many groups and faction's within it's own government and also a culture of some trying to impress in order to rise up the party lines which may be responsible for this, I mean what kind of idiot (even if in the seriously unlikely case this did not come from that virus laboratory which it patently did) put's a laboratory that is working on Virus and other pathogen's in a heavily populated city, a ready supply or people to infect and just like kindling on a fire for the virus to spread which it has even if the Chinese are now claiming that it is under control in there nation - which I hope it is as nearly ever single Chinese person is completely of the actions of the few idiot's that perpetrated this disaster and that has now cost how many lives and is set to cost how many more?.

And... this is how they treat Wuhan residents.

originally posted by: dantanna
it should be called the lieber virus

I like either the red plague or the Harvard Lieber virus (HLV1).

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

If, and that's a big "IF", I was inclined to think this virus was a bio weapon, I would suspect Kim Jung Un, North Korea first. After all, he did promise the world a "Christmas gift".

can you link where he stated that?
you might be on to something

originally posted by: HelloboysImbackguy
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan


It was probably disposed of discretly and without proper labels. Some idiot went dumpster diving and then went everywhere.

you made my day with that lol... I used to dive for pizza when I was too poor to afford groceries

a reply to: Rave3n

North Korea says it is preparing a dismal surprise for the American holiday season.
The pariah nation’s foreign ministry warned the US that its patience with nuclear talks is running out, concluding that “it is entirely up to the U.S. what Christmas gift it will select to get.”.

finance.yahoo.com...

North Korean strongman Kim Jong Un failed to deliver his “Christmas gift” — a new missile test, perhaps — by Christmas, but he may yet come through. Yet even if he does, it would be wrong to see President Trump’s dealings with him as a failure.

nypost.com...

originally posted by: Violater1

originally posted by: dantanna
it should be called the lieber virus

I like either the red plague or the Harvard Lieber virus (HLV1).

Nah I Wuhan flu

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

I dont think you meant to reply to me but Ill take a stab at a reply anyway...

Occam's razor: Occam's razor is a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in logic and problem-solving. It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Now look at the situation, China has a lab that is highly specialized in Wuhan, This is a fact.

Which of the following is most likely;

1: The United states managed to sneak someone into the heart of China with a pathogen without being caught and released it to start the pandemic.

2: Someone at the Lab made a mistake and the virus escaped (how does not matter) starting the pandemic.

Of those two option which is most likely to have occurred, if anyone has a third or 4th or 5th option feel free to add on to the list and lets see if we can narrow it down to the theory with the least amount of assumptions.

I've always found Occam's Razor to be extremely flawed, especially in these modern times when logic is most often devoid of facts, and it's a lazy method either way.

However, and this is total hypothesis, the CIA have done some pretty nasty stuff over the years, so possibly not surprising if an element of US authority was responsible. Additionally, IF these Western supplied stories from 'journalists' (I use the term loosely here), that seem to me, mostly have pro-Trump/Anti-Chinese tendencies, are true in regards to nearby labs in Wuhan etc. then it could also be possible.

If you notice though, with both theories, the paradox is still visible between the theories (of which come from agenda driven sources) and presentable facts (of which there are few).

I think governments should focus more on tackling this virus, and the media should be more responsible, if at least they could do that, until the virus is more under control