Italy says 99 percent of those who died of Covid-19 had other illnesses

originally posted by: trollz

More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions

just three victims, or 0.8% of the total, had no previous pathology. Almost half of the victims suffered from at least three prior illnesses

The average age of those who’ve died from the virus in Italy is 79.5

All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions.

the country’s death rate closer to the global average of about 2%

Source

We have some new information coming out of Italy about the deaths of those infected with Covid-19. Once again, we can see that the danger of this virus is being blown massively out of proportion. The overwhelming majority of people who are dying are elderly people with other pre-existing conditions; in fact, ALL of the victims who died under the age of 40 had other serious existing medical conditions. Only 3 victims total, THREE, had no previous pathology. The people dying of this virus are the same people at risk of dying of any other virus, like the flu.

This virus is not some global humanity-ending apocalypse.

That's a red herring argument.

Except for a few nut jobs, nobody ever said this virus is a humanity-ending apocalypse. What professional epidemiologists have been saying pretty consistently is that this is a big deal--much bigger than seasonal flu.

The study released a few days ago by the Imperial College is probably the most authoritative and most up to date modeling to date and is the basis of the UK government's response plan.

www.imperial.ac.uk...

One of its conclusions is:

"In the most effective mitigation strategy examined, which leads to a single, relatively short epidemic (case isolation, household quarantine and social distancing of the elderly), the surge limits for both general ward and ICU beds would be exceeded by at least 8-fold under the more optimistic scenario for critical care requirements that we examined. In addition, even if all patients were able to be treated, we predict there would still be in the order of 250,000 deaths in GB, and 1.1-1.2 million in the US."

1.1 million deaths in the US out of a population of 330 million means 1 out of every 300 residents dies, probably within about the next year. For comparison, in WW2, the US had 418,500 military and civilian deaths spread out over 3 years out of a population of 140 million, or 1 out of every 335 residents. During WW2, about 20% of the nation's economic activity was redirected to support the war effort. That's the scale of what we're looking at.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

That's the fatality rate.

As far as I've been able to tell, your chances of developing a severe illness are the same no matter your age with the possible exception of children. And if you develop a severe case, you are going to end up in the hospital. At that point, what saves you is your age and you health. Young healthy people can beat severe illnesses from this with medical care while the older folks and/or those with comorbidities are at an extreme disadvantage.

originally posted by: oriondc
Of course they did. There’s a lot of old, sick people in Italy and their healthcare system isn’t the best. I’m sure that’s why it was specifically targeted out of the countries in Europe.

We’ve shut down the world because 9,000 people have died in three months. (150,000 people die per day of natural causes and 12,000 people died just in the US from H1N1). This is just about instituting authoritarian measures on the population and virtually nothing about any virus. Travel restrictions will never be lifted, these two rounds of checks will turn into universal basic income, and ta-da we’re living in the communist/totalitarian state the Deep State has wanted for decades.

You really should make a thread on this

a reply to: ketsuko

I'm fairly sure there's at least some correspondence between severe cases and deaths but that was an assumption you're right. It could be mostly random as to who develops severe symptoms. I haven't seen any data on that specific topic though, if you have any sources please share.

a reply to: oriondc

originally posted by: oriondc
Of course they did. There’s a lot of old, sick people in Italy and their healthcare system isn’t the best. I’m sure that’s why it was specifically targeted out of the countries in Europe.

We’ve shut down the world because 9,000 people have died in three months. (150,000 people die per day of natural causes and 12,000 people died just in the US from H1N1). This is just about instituting authoritarian measures on the population and virtually nothing about any virus. Travel restrictions will never be lifted, these two rounds of checks will turn into universal basic income, and ta-da we’re living in the communist/totalitarian state the Deep State has wanted for decades.

We knew they were up to something:

They are coming for your guns, now more than ever. Is a catastrophic event imminent?

a reply to: The2Billies

I never offended you did I? I said it sounded crazy and I'd be most likely take it with a grain of salt.

The first link you provided discounted the HIV/Covid hybridisation itself from what I'm gathering. I'm not a virologist so I'm unsure of how much actual fact checking I can accomplish although with time on my hands the last few days I have looked up viral binding processes and how they attack cells. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

I just hope when the truth comes out in 5-20 years you will come back and apologize.

I'm not apologizing for being somewhat sensible, it's not exactly my first rodeo when it comes to doom and gloom.

I'm well aware of China's lack of regard towards human rights and respecting what most would call a bit humanity. I've been vocal about that for years. However even if China is lying completely about it's infection rates this virus is a terrible way if culling any population. It's just not achieving that level of calamity anywhere. All I ever find when researching that avenue is misinformation, down right lies and propaganda. Often from people who thrive on fear, profit from it.

Sometimes it's just people who love attention... I've dealt with that here in regards to Ebola a few years ago.

I'm aware of the social credit score system. I'm also aware that Wuhan has been a main site for biological research for atleast 50 years. Personally I think China is going to suffer a huge downfall over the coming months financially and I know that poverty is indiscriminate and a killer.

I fear China will lose more citizens due to poverty, India too. If this is a culling then they genuinely have the foresight of a goldfish. Which I know is not true.

My spider senses ain't tingling yet, again I mean no offense nor have I came with an offensive tone. I'm merely stating I'm unconvinced as of yet.

Annnnd so what?

Take a look around you and realise that probably 40% of the population probably has an underlying condition, either known or unknown, like, age, heart, diabetes, how about all the fat asses(not me I'm just chubby) as an example.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ketsuko

I'm fairly sure there's at least some correspondence between severe cases and deaths but that was an assumption you're right. It could be mostly random as to who develops severe symptoms. I haven't seen any data on that specific topic though, if you have any sources please share.

There are 2 strains at least, maybe more, the 1st was more deadly, the 2nd mutated one spread easier but not as deadly..so I hear.

The only reason why age has a part in this is because older people typically have more preexisting conditions then younger and if any age group has these then maybe they better bunker down while the rest of the world moves on more normally.

Corona Bologna: The Truth Begins to Leak Out in Italy — The Overwhelming Majority of Deaths Are Linked to Other Illnesses

The president of the Italian Higher Institute, Silvio Brusaferro, said that medical records indicate: “There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies.” He acknowledged that the average age of death was over 80 years old and that the majority of them had serious chronic diseases. He said that only about 100 medical records have come from the hospitals throughout Italy. The entire country of 60-million people has been locked down despite the fact that the majority who died actually expired from other diseases that have nothing to do with Covid-19. -GEG The government of Italy, as everyone knows, has locked down the whole country of 60 million people. So how many Italians have died from COV? Even by the standards of the useless and misleading diagnostic tests? Ready? As far as the Italian Higher Institute of Health knows, at this point: Maybe two. Maybe. Try to wrap your mind around that. Good luck. Seems the president of the Italian Higher Institute has some smarts. He understands that people who already have other serious health conditions, which have nothing to do with COV, can and do die from those other conditions, regardless of the fact that they’ve tested positive (on useless tests) for COV. He gets it. I predict a great future for him. If he keeps shooting his mouth off, he might find himself working as a weed puller in a forest. Or he might suddenly be diagnosed with the virus and find himself in isolation. Grit your teeth and plow through this piece from Rome, 13 March 2020, Agenzia Nova: “Coronavirus: ISS [Italian National Institute of Health]: in Italy there are only two deaths ascertained so far due to Covid-19” (Italian, English) “There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies. This is what emerges from the medical records examined so far by the Higher Institute of Health, according to what was reported by the President of the Institute [Istituto Superiore di Sanità (ISS), Italian National Institute of Health], Silvio Brusaferro, during the press conference held today at the Civil Protection in Rome. ‘Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years – 80.3 to be exact…The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of [other non-COV] diseases’, but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge. The president of the ISS has specified that ‘little more than a hundred medical records’ have so far come from hospitals throughout Italy.”

The sick get even more sicker and die?

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

Sorry, but the world shouldn't stop spinning because old folks are scared.

So. Maths.

According to Google there are 49.2 million people aged 65 or over in the USA - 15 % of the population.

According to the National Health Council, 40 million US Citizens have chronic health conditions.

Some of those may overlap, so lets split the difference and use a 60 million figure

Assume a 3% fatality rate - that's 1.8 million who could die

Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security says there are 100,000 ICU beds in the USA.

So... potentially 1.7 million people could clog up hospitals overwhelm the medical system and cause absolute chaos

Imagine you are out in your car, have a serious accident and need emergency life saving treatment, but you can't get it because everything has gone to #. The hospitals are overwhelmed, the staff are sick themselves from viral overload and suddenly, on your deathbed you realise that you thought this was about 'old folk being scared'

Maybe its not you, maybe its your wife, or your kid. Same difference.

Maybe you might want to get your head out of your backside now and understand how serious this might be instead of coming across as a selfish prick?

a reply to: zosimov

i opine the captions on both are false - but hey - doom porn

a reply to: ignorant_ape

I made those captions. What is false about them? Haven't you or someone you've known been to the doctor's office with a cold or flu before?
Did your doc wear a hazmat suit?

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: The2Billies

But as one in the Senior age range, I can tell you it is terrifying for us.

Sorry, but the world shouldn't stop spinning because old folks are scared. The damage it is doing to world economies at this point is astronomical, likely to result in many people being reduced to poverty and will even lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths of younger working people as a result. As I've said a hundred times now, this panic only makes sense if there's something we're not being told about the virus. .

I just realized that this is the case. The closures of all the businesses and all the people being laid off is mainly to protect the Baby Boom generation over their fears of death.

The disease has taken the greatest toll on Italy's elderly population. Figures released Thursday by the Health Institute of Italy indicated that 86% of fatalities were among those aged over 70. People aged 60 to 69 made up a further 10% of the deaths.

Italy's Death Toll: CNN

So 96% of those dying from Covid-19 in Italy are age 60 and older.

So we are shutting down everything and harming all younger generations to protect the Baby Boomers from dying. The president is a Baby Boomer, Biden is a Baby Boomer. And they are all willing to destroy the lives of all other generations and destroy the economy just to save the Baby Boom generation from death.

If I was a conspiracy theorist. I would say it is engineered to rid the world of the vulnerable who need expensive long-term care, whether medical, social, or both...

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Or indeed, a plot to overturn the world economy in one fell swoop & usher in the Universal Basic Income - in the UK the government is subsidising private income to the tune of 80% of existing wages.

Amd as others have noted, quite possibly a means to protect the elder fearful of death. Is it selfish to oshut down the world because older people are scared of losing their retirement years?

That said, my 30 yr old brother is very, very unwell with the virus, so possibly there is no conspiracy, and this is a perfectly natural, albeit a hideous viral outbreak which is claiming the weaker members of society as might reasonably be expected.

a reply to: vonclod
More aggressive not more deadly. Completely different. In addition the researchers who saw the strains said it's more likely to be due to reporting and data capture than it is actually mutated.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: The2Billies

But as one in the Senior age range, I can tell you it is terrifying for us.

Sorry, but the world shouldn't stop spinning because old folks are scared. The damage it is doing to world economies at this point is astronomical, likely to result in many people being reduced to poverty and will even lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths of younger working people as a result. As I've said a hundred times now, this panic only makes sense if there's something we're not being told about the virus. I believe there's a very high probability the virus was bio-engineered and leaked from the level 4 lab in Wuhan, there's also some indications that CV19 could have long term health implications. If any of that turns out to be true then I would agree this sort of heavy handed response is warranted, but there is absolutely no reasonable argument to justify risking economic collapse otherwise.

As harsh as this message is, I don’t think it’s wrong.

~7.4k people die in the US daily.
www.indexmundi.com...

And there’s been 275 deaths for CV19 in the US total:
www.worldometers.info...

So really it should be society carrying on and those at risk - pick an age cut off of 60/65/70/75 - should be required to shelter in place. Not the other way around. Said differently - and using an example provided earlier - finding childcare is a pita but it’s better than losing your job, most all socialization, cratering the global economy, etc.

Now - that said - I’ve come around on my thinking for why the sheltering is necessary:
~7mm people in the US are immunosuppressed
www.cnn.com...

If those folks all contracted the disease, and 5% of cases are severe or worse - that means 350k people would potentially need hospitalization.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: The2Billies

But as one in the Senior age range, I can tell you it is terrifying for us.

Sorry, but the world shouldn't stop spinning because old folks are scared. The damage it is doing to world economies at this point is astronomical, likely to result in many people being reduced to poverty and will even lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths of younger working people as a result. As I've said a hundred times now, this panic only makes sense if there's something we're not being told about the virus. I believe there's a very high probability the virus was bio-engineered and leaked from the level 4 lab in Wuhan, there's also some indications that CV19 could have long term health implications. If any of that turns out to be true then I would agree this sort of heavy handed response is warranted, but there is absolutely no reasonable argument to justify risking economic collapse otherwise.

As harsh as this message is, I don’t think it’s wrong.

~7.4k people die in the US daily.
www.indexmundi.com...

And there’s been 275 deaths for CV19 in the US total:
www.worldometers.info...

So really it should be society carrying on and those at risk - pick an age cut off of 60/65/70/75 - should be required to shelter in place. Not the other way around. Said differently - and using an example provided earlier - finding childcare is a pita but it’s better than losing your job, most all socialization, cratering the global economy, etc.

Now - that said - I’ve come around on my thinking for why the sheltering is necessary:
~7mm people in the US are immunosuppressed
www.cnn.com...

If those folks all contracted the disease, and 5% of cases are severe or worse - that means 350k people would potentially need hospitalization.

There’s about 900k hospital beds - of all kinds for all people (think neonatal, burn units, cardiac units, etc.) with ~a 65k occupancy rate per the cdc:

www.cdc.gov...

That leaves 315k beds - of all types - available.

That leaves us short by 35k beds. Just for CV 19. And that’s only looking at cases where we know the person is immunocompromised. There’s likely many more cases where someone is immunocompromised but they don’t know it. Let’s assume there are 500k people - or about .14% of the population - don’t know they have a pre-existing condition. I bet that number is a little low but Even so - that’s another 25k people. Now we’re 60k hospital beds short.

You are where I’m going with this...

The world - not just the US - doesn’t have the medical facilities to treat all these people and handle the normal flow of patients they would otherwise intake.

That’s the crisis that’s looking to be avoided.

Now, do I think there’s more to this we’re not being told? Oh yeah. No doubt based on my personal experience.

But the ability to treat all of these people is a real concern - regardless of any other suspicions.

^sorry - weird double post.