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The Absolute Power of Christianity!

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posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
I do not believe you have more insight into these things than I.


I believe you have more insight in some areas, and I have more insight in others.


Originally posted by spamandham
Nor do I have any reason to suspect ancient men did either.


Ah, so because you haven't experienced God yet, there's no way anyone else could've possibly either?


Originally posted by spamandham
So the answer to your question is, the consequeces are irrelevant until the basis is established. For all I know, this is all a grand experiment to extract the freethinkers - the diamonds in the rough, and dispose of all others. Are you willing to take that chance?


I am a freethinker, so there is no danger to me.


Originally posted by spamandham
The better assessment is that I am unwilling to trust in what appears to be BS.


If it appears to be, then you do not know. If you do not know, why do you preach against it?


Originally posted by spamandham
He has the knowledge and power to accomplish that.


Sure He does, but He isn't going to run your life for you. Why would He create a race of mindless zombies?


Originally posted by spamandham
Are you calling his omnipotence or omniscience into question?!


I've done no such thing.


Originally posted by spamandham
I don't reject god because 'i love sin'.


I understand that. Since you have a heart, I believe this is true. If you didn't have a heart, we would not be having this conversation.


Originally posted by spamandham
I doubt I'm more of a sinner than the average Christian, and I also understand that from the Christian meme perspective, sin doesn't really even matter.


Sin does matter. It certainly may be the case that you sin less than some Christians. But then again, what's the difference between 703,582 sins and 708,568 sins? Should one "qualify" for heaven while the other does not? God cannot accept 1 sin into His presence, so somebody's gotta pay the bill. Are you going to let Jesus (who has more than enough) pay that tab or will you be looking into your wallet to see if you have enough? Rhetorical question, just something to think about.


Originally posted by spamandham
I reject god because the term is undefined or incoherent, and there is no credible evidence. I reject leprechauns too.


How many times are you going to say that before getting up and going to get proof? Is there a great number of people here who truthfully insist leprechauns are real and know the path to find them?


Originally posted by spamandham
I've wasted too much of my life on this already. I will continue to try to learn, but my default assumption is 'false', as it should have been all along.


Now we're getting to the bottom line, which is what I'm most interested in. What did you trust and how did it fail you?


Originally posted by spamandham
You and I have discussed this many times already. By now I would expect you to know a little about me.


I think I still have much more to learn.


Originally posted by spamandham
The boogey man shows up after you have died, and snatches your soul into hell. God allows this because the boogey man has a treaty with god. Are you ready to believe yet?


Oh, by boogeyman, you mean Satan? Yeah, he did show up to the party. Sorry, thought you were talking about a character that doesn't exist.


Originally posted by spamandham
By the way, the proof that you believe is a cashiers check for $1000 made out and mailed to me. Better safe than sorry don't you think?


I don't understand. Can you re-phrase?


[edit on 27-12-2005 by saint4God]




posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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Posted by Azza:

quote: Originally posted by Fromabove
Even science takes faith. It takes faith to believe in atoms and then to search to prove them. All things take a degree of faith. It's just a matter as to how you apply that faith.

Fromabove
_______________
.....OK seriously.....

Faith has little to do with approximations and the successive falsifiable tests that back them up. please think more.
________________________________________


Faith has everything to do with anything. Cities are built on faith. You actually have to believe you can accomplish something before you try to do it. Faith is your belief in action to do it or receive it. Faith alone does not make it so. If I believe I can flap my arms and fly, I may believe that I can fly, but it doesn't make it so. So if I believe there are such things as atoms, it will take faith to keep at it till I can show that there is. Faith in science works like this. A belief. A hypothesis. A theory. A fact or proof. Your faith pushes you onward to show the results. Even Darwin must have had faith to believe he was on to something or he would have given up and went back home. Faith in God works like this. A belief. A demonstration. A proof. Not all science is accepted and not all religion is accepted. As for my part, I have seen miracles science could never explain. I've actuall seen diseased people healed. I've seen demons forced out of people. I've seen multiple times answer to prayer. Not because I am any different than anyone else but because I believe. But so I have my evidence from my faith. And whether you trust in science or God, all things take faith. The approach is the difference.

Fromabove



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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fromabove

faith = Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

therefore science has NOTHING to do with faith. science has mountains of logical proof and material evidence. god has no logical proof and/or material evidence.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
therefore science has NOTHING to do with faith. science has mountains of logical proof and material evidence. god has no logical proof and/or material evidence.


Wow...Do you really believe that? Are you able to look at a cell, a leaf, a quantum reaction, and not see how incredibly perfect the designs are? Are you not able to see any order in the universe? Does life not amaze you in both its complexity and its simplicity? Do you not see the sheer unlikelihood of any kind of life developing anywhere, much less higher life forms capable of reasoning, discovery and philosophy? Does it not amaze you that, while entropy is attacking all condensed matter, life somehow rejects this scientific principle and manages to form order out of chaos?

Do you really think there's no material evidence of a designer of the universe?



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Wow...Do you really believe that? Are you able to look at a cell, a leaf, a quantum reaction, and not see how incredibly perfect the designs are? Are you not able to see any order in the universe? Does life not amaze you in both its complexity and its simplicity? Do you not see the sheer unlikelihood of any kind of life developing anywhere, much less higher life forms capable of reasoning, discovery and philosophy? Does it not amaze you that, while entropy is attacking all condensed matter, life somehow rejects this scientific principle and manages to form order out of chaos?

Do you really think there's no material evidence of a designer of the universe?


Very good Jake. The principles that you listed above each individual must figure out. The complexities of these type matters is what makes it so very interesting.

Many scientists are after the ole "GOD particle" ya know. It will be very interesting in the coming years whether they have the ability to pinpoint what that particle is. Many are scientists with a very firm belief in GOD and a creator.

I am wagering, however, that they are never quite able to isolate the particle. This is the energy that keeps things up and running, brings order from chaos, etc.

Many like to argue with really no basis that science and GOD don't go together. GOD would not have given man the ability to solve many problems if he wanted it any different.

I guess he is looking for "bonafide" truth. I suggest looking in the mirror.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

Wow...Do you really believe that? Are you able to look at a cell, a leaf, a quantum reaction, and not see how incredibly perfect the designs are? Are you not able to see any order in the universe? Does life not amaze you in both its complexity and its simplicity? Do you not see the sheer unlikelihood of any kind of life developing anywhere, much less higher life forms capable of reasoning, discovery and philosophy? Does it not amaze you that, while entropy is attacking all condensed matter, life somehow rejects this scientific principle and manages to form order out of chaos?

Do you really think there's no material evidence of a designer of the universe?


Very good Jake. The principles that you listed above each individual must figure out. The complexities of these type matters is what makes it so very interesting.

Many scientists are after the ole "GOD particle" ya know. It will be very interesting in the coming years whether they have the ability to pinpoint what that particle is. Many are scientists with a very firm belief in GOD and a creator.

I am wagering, however, that they are never quite able to isolate the particle. This is the energy that keeps things up and running, brings order from chaos, etc.

Many like to argue with really no basis that science and GOD don't go together. GOD would not have given man the ability to solve many problems if he wanted it any different.

I guess if one is looking for "bonafide" truth. I suggest looking in the mirror.




posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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I'm not really sure what you mean about the "God" particle, unless you're referring to the theory of everything (one type of energy/force governing everything). If that's the case, it's been discovered, just not universalized. Over the past 40 years we've seen electrical and magnetic forces tied together as one type of force, then the weak force was tied in, creating the electro-weak force. Physicists are very close to tying the color force (aka the strong force) with these two, though the actual proof is years away as there aren't even plans to develop a particle accelerator with the power to rip quarks apart yet. Then, all that remains is tying gravitational force in with the other 4 for a universal energy governing all the universe. As of now, we don't have the means by which to test gravitational theories, so that theory may have to wait a while, especially if it turns out we're completely wrong in our understanding.

So is that what the God particle is, and if so...Well, my question would be is that energy actually God, or just created by God to keep the Universe He designed functioning correctly?



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
therefore science has NOTHING to do with faith. science has mountains of logical proof and material evidence. god has no logical proof and/or material evidence.


Wow...Do you really believe that? Are you able to look at a cell, a leaf, a quantum reaction, and not see how incredibly perfect the designs are? Are you not able to see any order in the universe? Does life not amaze you in both its complexity and its simplicity? Do you not see the sheer unlikelihood of any kind of life developing anywhere, much less higher life forms capable of reasoning, discovery and philosophy? Does it not amaze you that, while entropy is attacking all condensed matter, life somehow rejects this scientific principle and manages to form order out of chaos?

Do you really think there's no material evidence of a designer of the universe?


for every universe that is perfect there are an infinite number of universes that cannot even support themselves and blink out of existence the second they are created. it follows logically that the only universe in which we could notice the perfection is the only one we could exist in. understand?

i do believe there is no evidence for a designer because i do not believe a designer exists. also, the designer would need a designer/creator, thus creating a paradox.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Ah, so because you haven't experienced God yet, there's no way anyone else could've possibly either?


I have experienced "god". I have had the same experience when I was a Catholic, a Southern Baptist, and now and atheist. If this experience is in fact communion with god, then he doesn't limit it to those who believe one thing vs. another. I have no reason to believe those who tell me otherwise, and direct experience to contradict such claims. If you wish to claim these experiences are god, and you also claim god concerns himself with your beliefs, it's up to you to reconcile why so many people of diverse beliefs have such experiences.

The simplest explanation of course is that such experiences are natural and provide no evidence at all of anything metaphysical.


Originally posted by saint4God
I am a freethinker, so there is no danger to me.


You acknowledge you might be wrong? I guess I hadn't percieved that.


Originally posted by saint4God
If it appears to be, then you do not know. If you do not know, why do you preach against it?


I guess I don't consider it preaching to call people on the carpet for making unsubstantiated outrageous claims, nor do I consider it preaching to openly state my positions, particularly when I've been asked to do so. However, I am as certain of the nonexistence of god as I am of the nonexistence of leprechauns. Could I be wrong on either or both counts? Yes.

I do not accept the concept of absolute certainty, except when it can not be avoided, and in regards to definitions.


Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by spamandham
He has the knowledge and power to accomplish that.


Sure He does, but He isn't going to run your life for you. Why would He create a race of mindless zombies?


Does god have the knowledge and power necessary to convince someone who has high but not insurmountable standards!? - "yes" or "no"?

No coersion is necessary on his part, nor is it required that he turn me into a zombie. All he has to do is unambiguously show up to the party - a simple feat I would think for an omni^3 being.


Originally posted by saint4God
It certainly may be the case that you sin less than some Christians. But then again, what's the difference between 703,582 sins and 708,568 sins? Should one "qualify" for heaven while the other does not?


You're missing the point. The point has to do with me not god. I reject god because there's nothing credible to indicate the existence of such beings, not because I love sin or the other usual apologetic nonsense that presume you already believe.


Originally posted by saint4God
How many times are you going to say that before getting up and going to get proof?


I have proven it to my own satisfaction already.


Originally posted by saint4God
Now we're getting to the bottom line, which is what I'm most interested in. What did you trust and how did it fail you?


Why do you presume there was a failure of trust? I lost faith via knowledge not because of some emotional catharsis.


Originally posted by saint4God
Oh, by boogeyman, you mean Satan?


No, the boogeyman is not satan. The boogeyman is an actual man.


Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by spamandham
By the way, the proof that you believe is a cashiers check for $1000 made out and mailed to me. Better safe than sorry don't you think?


I don't understand. Can you re-phrase?


If you truly believe in the boogeyman, you will send me $1000 as proof. I'm one of his agents. If you don't prove your faith, he will drag you to hell when you die. Better safe than sorry, right? We can set up a payment plan if need be, but you best hope you don't die before the last payment is made.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
Faith has everything to do with anything. Cities are built on faith. You actually have to believe you can accomplish something before you try to do it. Faith is your belief in action to do it or receive it. Faith alone does not make it so. If I believe I can flap my arms and fly, I may believe that I can fly, but it doesn't make it so. So if I believe there are such things as atoms, it will take faith to keep at it till I can show that there is. Faith in science works like this. A belief. A hypothesis. A theory. A fact or proof. Your faith pushes you onward to show the results. Even Darwin must have had faith to believe he was on to something or he would have given up and went back home. Faith in God works like this. A belief. A demonstration. A proof. Not all science is accepted and not all religion is accepted. As for my part, I have seen miracles science could never explain. I've actuall seen diseased people healed. I've seen demons forced out of people. I've seen multiple times answer to prayer. Not because I am any different than anyone else but because I believe. But so I have my evidence from my faith. And whether you trust in science or God, all things take faith. The approach is the difference.

Fromabove


Please break up your posts, paragraphs mate, paragraphs.

Ok, now for definitions
: Faith
religion: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

complete confidence in a person or plan etc; "he cherished the faith of a good woman"; "the doctor-patient relationship is based on trust"

Science! No scientist has irrefutable faith in a hypothesis, some may be more confident than others, none are so deluded that they exclude every other possibility, resting their "faith" in one. Also, Nothing may be "proven" per say, only supported

In the Famous words of Kerry Packer after being dead for 8 seconds, "The good news is there is no hell. The bad news is there is no heaven"



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
I have experienced "god".


I didn't say experienced "god", I said experienced God.


Originally posted by spamandham
I have had the same experience when I was a Catholic, a Southern Baptist, and now and atheist. If this experience is in fact communion with god, then he doesn't limit it to those who believe one thing vs. another. I have no reason to believe those who tell me otherwise, and direct experience to contradict such claims. If you wish to claim these experiences are god, and you also claim god concerns himself with your beliefs, it's up to you to reconcile why so many people of diverse beliefs have such experiences.


If you don't see the difference in the statement I've made above, then the point is moot.


Originally posted by spamandham
The simplest explanation of course is that such experiences are natural and provide no evidence at all of anything metaphysical.


Explain away. Must be nice to dismiss things not understood.


Originally posted by spamandham
You acknowledge you might be wrong? I guess I hadn't percieved that.


I've been wrong many times, and probably will be wrong again many times in the future. There is one thing that I know though.


Originally posted by spamandham
I guess I don't consider it preaching to call people on the carpet for making unsubstantiated outrageous claims, nor do I consider it preaching to openly state my positions, particularly when I've been asked to do so.


Very well then, if you agree I'm not preaching, then I'll say neither of us are doing so. I'll also add to that an apology for saying this was the case.


Originally posted by spamandham
However, I am as certain of the nonexistence of god as I am of the nonexistence of leprechauns. Could I be wrong on either or both counts? Yes.


A respectable viewpoint, no doubt.


Originally posted by spamandham
I do not accept the concept of absolute certainty, except when it can not be avoided, and in regards to definitions.


Even the things we see are not certain when we depend on our perceptions.


Originally posted by spamandham
Does god have the knowledge and power necessary to convince someone who has high but not insurmountable standards!? - "yes" or "no"?


Yes. I'm living proof. Will He make that decision FOR them? Not likely.


Originally posted by spamandham
No coersion is necessary on his part, nor is it required that he turn me into a zombie. All he has to do is unambiguously show up to the party - a simple feat I would think for an omni^3 being.


Did you send an invitation?


Originally posted by spamandham
You're missing the point. The point has to do with me not god. I reject god because there's nothing credible to indicate the existence of such beings, not because I love sin or the other usual apologetic nonsense that presume you already believe.


As I've said before, I don't believe you love sin. What I'm trying very desparately to get across is that you're showing a no motivation to find Him, yet seem to have ample motivation to tear Him down at every opportunity.


Originally posted by spamandham
I have proven it to my own satisfaction already.


You have proven He exists? Or are you easily satisfied that he doesn't?


Originally posted by spamandham
Why do you presume there was a failure of trust? I lost faith via knowledge not because of some emotional catharsis.


*knocks* That's a pretty tough wall you've built up there. Mind letting down the drawbridge so I can come in to talk?


Originally posted by spamandham
No, the boogeyman is not satan. The boogeyman is an actual man.


I've not met him then, but know the origin of the name. He should be dead by now, unless someone else picked up the name.


Originally posted by spamandham
If you truly believe in the boogeyman, you will send me $1000 as proof. I'm one of his agents. If you don't prove your faith, he will drag you to hell when you die. Better safe than sorry, right? We can set up a payment plan if need be, but you best hope you don't die before the last payment is made.


I thought we weren't talking about Satan. God is the only one with the authority to send a person to Hell, not some dead guy. I don't have faith for faith's sake. I have faith IN the son of God who gave me eternal life. The boogeyman is powerless to take that away. And Satan too.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by spamandham
I have experienced "god".


I didn't say experienced "god", I said experienced God.


"God" is not someone's name, nor does it refer to a specific deity. Just becase I no longer presume such things doesn't imply I never have.


Originally posted by saint4God
Explain away. Must be nice to dismiss things not understood.


I understand them as well as you do I suspect. I have no idea how many times you and I have had this same conversation. It's time for you to accept what I've told you or write me off as a liar.


Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by spamandham
You acknowledge you might be wrong? I guess I hadn't percieved that.


I've been wrong many times, and probably will be wrong again many times in the future. There is one thing that I know though.


If you deny you could be wrong about that one thing, then you are not the freethinker you claimed to be.


Originally posted by saint4God
Very well then, if you agree I'm not preaching, then I'll say neither of us are doing so.


I agree that I have not witnessed you preaching on this board.


Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by spamandham
Does god have the knowledge and power necessary to convince someone who has high but not insurmountable standards!? - "yes" or "no"?


Yes.


Well then, my time will come if you're right.


Originally posted by saint4God
As I've said before, I don't believe you love sin. What I'm trying very desparately to get across is that you're showing a no motivation to find Him, yet seem to have ample motivation to tear Him down at every opportunity.


He can overcome my lack of motivation if he is omni^3.


Originally posted by saint4God
You have proven He exists? Or are you easily satisfied that he doesn't?


I have proven to my own satisfaction that God (happy?) does not exist as an objective reality. God exists only in the minds of believers. (or gods for polytheists)


Originally posted by saint4God
*knocks* That's a pretty tough wall you've built up there. Mind letting down the drawbridge so I can come in to talk?


You don't get it, the bridge is down.


Originally posted by saint4God
I've not met him then, but know the origin of the name. He should be dead by now, unless someone else picked up the name.


...well at least you are demonstrating a willingness to short shrift the patently absurd in some cases...



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
"God" is not someone's name, nor does it refer to a specific deity. Just becase I no longer presume such things doesn't imply I never have.


Actually it is the title that does refer to the specific deity. If you had an experience with Him, I see no reason to not acknowledge that. I don't worship Satan yet will refer to him from time to time. I've heard quite a bit about Zeus, Krishna, and Bhuddha, yet do not put them in quotes. Even Satan and his crew have been recorded talking about God and Jesus (even quoting scripture).


Originally posted by spamandham
I understand them as well as you do I suspect. I have no idea how many times you and I have had this same conversation. It's time for you to accept what I've told you or write me off as a liar.


I've not called you a liar sir.


Originally posted by spamandham
If you deny you could be wrong about that one thing, then you are not the freethinker you claimed to be.


Then I would be a lair for claiming I do not know that which I know. Freethinker and liar are not the same term. Freethinker means being flexible with what is uncertain and pondering the things that are not known. At least, that's what I thought it meant, but I'm open to other definitions



Originally posted by spamandham
I agree that I have not witnessed you preaching on this board.


Thanks!
I'm glad we're on a conversation level.


Originally posted by spamandham
Well then, my time will come if you're right.


I hope so. I'll do the best I can to help.


Originally posted by spamandham
He can overcome my lack of motivation if he is omni^3.


There's that "expecting a handout" way of thinking again. This may come as a shocker, but He's the one who is God, erego we would need to go to Him. I don't know how much more plainly I can put it.



Originally posted by spamandham
I have proven to my own satisfaction that God (happy?)


Yes, thank you. I know who we're talking about now.


Originally posted by spamandham
does not exist as an objective reality. God exists only in the minds of believers. (or gods for polytheists)


Wind analogy. I'm sure there are places in the world where one feels no wind.


Originally posted by spamandham
You don't get it, the bridge is down.


Good! Let's explore that. Having faith is not logical, though you claimed to have it at one time. Therefore your decision to believe there is a God was emotional, was it not? Also, you'd mentioned a period of mourning afterwards. Was that not emotional? Now, let's talk about the emotion that was present in-between. If there was emotion before and after, than logically there was emotion during. The Bible presented facts to you about God. You'd said you'd read other books that had "facts" against God. Side-by-side you needed to make a decision then. That decision was: Do you believe the Bible and the information presented that supports it or do you believe the other "facts" that seem to contradict it. Your heart was not won over by facts, because beliefs are not logical. We'd discussed before about the unfairness of the unsaved receiving an eternal punishment. Was there a friend or family member that you were close to and lost because they were not saved? Did this have any impact on your further research for "the truth" outside of what you understood to be true?


Originally posted by spamandham
...well at least you are demonstrating a willingness to short shrift the patently absurd in some cases...


Thanks!
Now if you said that by sending $1,000 you would truly believe in your heart that God exists and His son is to be trusted for salvation, then I would've been counting my pennies. Heaven is the ultimate free gift, so it'd be worth me parting with a few green pieces of paper to share it with someone else too.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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I'm not really sure what you mean about the "God" particle,


Well, I had a link and in my computer illiteracy lost it bringing it over here. It is called the "Higgs Boson" I believe. Something to do with mass, and what is holding everything together. It is very interesting reading. Just do a search on "God Particle", or "Higgs Boson". You write like you understand a lot of that type stuff.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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saint4God, what if my "god" demands you send me meat(my organisation helps the needy) and participate in incest?

you know, ala Cain and Abel

we are worshiping the same "god" no? just my interpretation varies, I of course place a higher value on meat than the bible
it just tastes better. Also my "god" condones and even advocates contraception and safe sex

(please forgive me if my post sounds flippant, I'm just trying to use this as an open forum for discussion)



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
for every universe that is perfect there are an infinite number of universes that cannot even support themselves and blink out of existence the second they are created. it follows logically that the only universe in which we could notice the perfection is the only one we could exist in. understand?

i do believe there is no evidence for a designer because i do not believe a designer exists. also, the designer would need a designer/creator, thus creating a paradox.


...And what evidence do you use to support your infinite universe theory?



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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alright, for the record. i invite the great omni^3 being to my new years eve party.

what shall i do if this being doesn't show up?

ATTENTION god or jesus (though it is actually Yeshua, but lets not argue semantics) please show up to my party.

now if an omni^3 can't respond to this invitation, i'm deeply disappointed.

it'll be a great party, and you can do that water to wine thing if you want!

it may sound ridiculous to invite god to a party, but it sounds more ridiculous that god couldn't come to my party, or a least tell me that god has made a commitment to go to another party. probably one at the playboy mansion...



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 05:41 PM
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Note to self: Read through thread before replying to folks...

It's interesting that people refer to the Higgs Boson particle as the God particle. I can understand how it could have gotten this name, as without the existence of the Higgs Boson, the Standard Model of physics completely falls apart. However, though a Higgs Boson has not been detected directly, like the gluon there is plenty of evidence supporting its existance from the Higgs field requiring a non-zero value. Otherwise, there is no mass in the universe, and...Well, I'm feeling about 15 pounds per square inch of air pressing down on me right now...

There is another theory that would account for a lack of a Higgs Boson particle called Heim theory.

I guess I don't follow why the Higgs Boson's existence would legitimize God, though...

Azza, your assumption is that everyone is worshipping the same God, just in their own way. This is not scripturally sound in Christianity, though. You're trying to argue with Saint4God with an assumption he does not share. I believe that the place to begin the argument from your perspective would be to parallel Christianity's God's personality with those of other faiths before assuming Saint4God accepts that Allah is the same as JHVH.

Finally, maddness, that was an...Interesting reason for believing there are infinite universes but this is the only one that was perfect for our specific condition. Because you're going to have a party, invite God (He'll be there, but you won't recognize Him), and ask Him to RSVP...

Did you know the sky is really orange during the day when the sky is clear? It's all an illusion the government has created because blue is more soothing and keeps us passive. Understand?

What's my reasoning for that? Well, earlier today I was flinging a rubber band at the wall and catching it. At one point, I flung it a little too hard and had to get out of my chair to pick it up.

What more explanation would you need?



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Azza, your assumption is that everyone is worshipping the same God, just in their own way. This is not scripturally sound in Christianity, though. You're trying to argue with Saint4God with an assumption he does not share. I believe that the place to begin the argument from your perspective would be to parallel Christianity's God's personality with those of other faiths before assuming Saint4God accepts that Allah is the same as JHVH.


perhaps the reason we're worshipping the same god, just in different ways has to do with something in the human psyche, something deep down inside all of us that urges us to hope that something is in control of our random actions, or that good deeds will be rewarded and like wise bad ones punished?

Saint4god does not share my assumption that his "god" is just as valid as mine? well that makes me a sad panda


I was talking about the Old Testament's "god", we're worshipping the same "god"
infact now I worship Thor, the Norse "god"



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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That is one possible theory, true, but I'll explain why I have a big problem with it.

There are actually two levels, one theological and the other more secular. If it turns out you're right and everyone is worshipping the same God in their own way, and that is wholesome and acceptable to God, then why would He have us worship Him in such a manner that says this is completely false?

Another possibility, still in the theological realm, would be that God has always been there and has been making Himself known, but humanity was getting the message wrong. Ancient people saw an earthquake ravaging a land as a message from the Gods, but we now know this is caused by tectonic activity. So, too, have people misinterpreted God over the years, but we now know, through Christ, the proper way to worship Him.

Now, that may sound very arrogant at first. So, too, would stating that Newton's Laws of motion are the only laws of motion to someone who believes that you could, in fact, have an action with no reaction. It would sound arrogant to the person who doesn't understand, but the fact of the matter is, the laws are true and that person's misconception of motion is wrong. So far as I know, and I could be wrong, Christianity is the only religion that can put up an active defense, discussing the issue rather than attacking the questioner, on a scientific, philosophical, theological, historical, and prophetical level. That, in my mind (especially since I did this before accepting the divinity of Christ), holds a lot of weight.

The other, more secular reason for not accepting that all paths lead to God is because of how closely that faith ties in with Western Civilization's culture of moral relativity today. If I went out to find who God really was, and came away from that journey with a picture of God that resembles the beliefs I held going into the search, and that everything I was doing was perfect in this God's eyes I just discovered, I would suspect my pride may have had something to do with that. If I was a college professor and I did that, I would probably be part of the Jesus Seminars.

Those are the primary reasons I reject Unitarian beliefs. The apologetics reason is really the clincher for me, because I went on my own investigation of the evidence and found my own beliefs to be severely lacking after I got past the surface.



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