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The Absolute Power of Christianity!

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posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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Spamandham, read my posts. If Hitler had read the Bible and understood what "You shall not murder" means he would have been kooky nut case but rather harmless. I really like how people tend to disect the speech of another but only use bits and pieces of it. So there be some on this thread that say we Christians need to "go into the Bible study" and stay there. I don't think so..... no, I'm sorry to inform you that I have a voice too. Saint4God, your ways are noble but Spam and Madness couldn't really care. They think your an idiot but they won't say it cause "big brother" may be watching them. If Spam insults me I could care less about it. It is his point of view against mine. But if he slams my God, I will tell him as best I know the error of his ways. You know I don't hate Spam or anyone else. But they think we are the cause of the evils in the world and not the force preventing them. They need to be told the truth.

Atheist to Christian;

Question: Who created God?
Answer: I'll ask Him when I see Him.

Christian to Atheist;

Question: Who created the universe?
Answer:
"We're sorry... if you would like to make a call........."

Do I hear a buzy signal ? Can you hear me now ? The answer to my question is seriously wanting. Wait... I think I hear someone thinking.


Fromabove




posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
If Hitler had read the Bible and understood what "You shall not murder" means he would have been kooky nut case but rather harmless.


Perhaps he read the part where god commanded genocide against the Middianites instead. There really is no debating whether or not Hitler was a Christian. He was. His antisemitism was wide spread among Christians in his day. It was only after the horrors of the holocaust were revealed that hearts began to change.


Originally posted by Fromabove
Saint4God, your ways are noble but Spam and Madness couldn't really care.


I think you'll find that you will not generally receive more respect than you show others - it's part of that golden rule thing your supposed to be adhering to.


Originally posted by Fromabove
They think your an idiot but they won't say it cause "big brother" may be watching them.


I don't think Saint is an idiot. You're confusing my opinion of you with my opinion of Saint.


Originally posted by Fromabove
But if he slams my God, I will tell him as best I know the error of his ways.


Is your god so weak that he needs you to defend him? Let's try an experiment from the Old Testament then.

God of Fromabove, if you are real strike me dead right now. Go on now, I dare you.

Hmmm. I still seem to be here. Maybe he just doesn't listen to me, why don't you give it a try and ask him to strike me dead to prove his power just like he dead in the old testament.


Originally posted by Fromabove
But they think we are the cause of the evils in the world and not the force preventing them.


Actually, I don't think Christians are better or worse than anyone else in terms of behavior. I think the Christian meme is dangerous though.


Originally posted by Fromabove
Christian to Atheist;

Question: Who created the universe?
Answer:
"We're sorry... if you would like to make a call........."

Do I hear a buzy signal ? Can you hear me now ? The answer to my question is seriously wanting.


Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

[edit on 20-12-2005 by spamandham]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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i have a question to ponder.......if you are christian are you not sapposed to follow the religious laws set out to the jewish? were these also not the teachings of jesus as he was jewish? have you read the torra (spelling)?



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham
I don't think Saint is an idiot.


Thanks spamandham
, but I'm still crazy right? I find that word to have an aura of compliment that I rather enjoy.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by plague
i have a question to ponder.......if you are christian are you not sapposed to follow the religious laws set out to the jewish? were these also not the teachings of jesus as he was jewish? have you read the torra (spelling)?


Good question. Jesus addresses these very well. The book of John is a good start, then Matthew, then Isaiah, then perhaps Acts and Corinthians. That should be a good progression to follow what the law is about.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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The Torah is actually the first 5 books of the Bible. Christ came to earth to fulfill the law. Paul makes it clear in several of the Epistles that if we place our faith in the Law, then we will be judged by the law. If, on the other hand, we place our faith in Christ, then we will be judged by Christ's forgiveness.

On that note, however, Christ did reiterate 9 of the 10 commandments. We are called to follow all 9 of the commandments he mentioned (the Sabbath is the Jews, and was a shadow of Christ and therefore has been fulfilled and need not be followed by Christians) with an emphasis on loving God and our neighbors.

The Levitican Law, such as purification rituals, sin offerings, and kosher laws is no longer applicable. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, and now the Holy Spirit will make our sins known to us. This was also emphasized by Peter's vision of the veil being torn and all the animals coming out with Christ telling him (again, three times) that he must eat of all foods of the earth right before he was asked to go to a non-Hebrew's house to talk God with em.

So no, Christians are not called to follow all the laws of the Torah anymore.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
is this the absolute power you speak of, corruption?




You really do like taking things out of context and then calling people to task for the new meaning you've applied to the phrase, don't you? This is what, the fourth time you've used the subject of this thread out of context in this thread and the third time I've pointed it out to you? Or has it been more?


i like to be a bit over the top, it's my style. i know it seems irrational and out of context, but it is provacative for many.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
One day a man said, those awful Jews, why don't we just get rid of them, after all it's got to be there fault, right? They prosper and they have things and we don't. Let's kill'em all! It is this kind of madness that those who can't stand the thought of God that brings evil into the world. And it's true of those that do so in the name of God as well so I don't excuse anyone. This is why it is important to actually read the Bible so that we don't keep doing the same evils over and over. Why is it that we Christians have to listen to all the filth that others spew out daily and have to sit back while others blaspheme our God in Heaven or or Lord and Savior. Why should we? What gives you the right to tell me that you get to say what you wish but I have to be silent? What gives you the right to say who you want to vote for but we cannot? You're all so afraid of my God that you feel the need to silence Him and us because you can't stand it. Kill all the Jews! Get those Christians! Is'nt amazing to all how you unbelieving God hating, anti-Christian people feel the need to fight God all the time? Let's lay heavy taxes on them! Why? who do you think takes care of the poor, the government? Why don't you ask those that freely give why they do it?
But I do have good news for the Godhaters, so here this. You will get the chance to do all those evil desires against us Christians when Antichrist comes fully to power. But I still warn you that in the end you will fail when the Christ you can't stand comes back to the Earth to rule it. Madnessinmysoul again gave the quote about the infinate stupidity of man. So again I can't stress this enough. I leave that saying to you to consider so that I don't again have to be accused of calling any stupid.

Fromabove



Wow, how come you haven’t been banned?

I honestly don’t hate god, because I don’t believe god exists , therefore nothing to hate. I’m not anti-christian, I’m anti-christianity (and MANY other religions) because I see it as nothing more than a way to turn people into puppets.

Also, people have been saying that the second coming is nigh for about the last 1960 or so years, so don’t hold your breath.



Originally posted by Fromabove
Saint4God, I would like to enquire something. When do you believe it's right to just stand up for God? All the well meaning and loving consideration that you give these people are good but, don't you think that when they not only don't care about what it is you say but then go on to say "There is no God" or "The word of God is a lie" that you need to stand up against speech with the truth. Spamandham was not having a dialogue about religion and science or he wouldn't feel the need to cast it to the ground the way he does. True dialogue can have differences yet allow for a respect for each others ideals. When someone kicks you in the noogies, he's not trying to share his love with you, he's hating you and doing damage to you. Neither Spamandham or Madnessinmysoul can offer a counter arguement as to how the universe came to be or how it is that atoms floating around in a mish-mosh of universal soup somehow gained intelligence and said, let us becaome a thing that lives and thinks. A discussion on thiese things would end up supporting us not them. But I'm sorry, somehow I can't just sit here and allow such speech go unchecked without standing up for my God who lives and is above all. You know I don't want to offend but that's what it ends up as when you have to resist evil in the world, they are offended. Now watch the next things they say and you'll understand what I mean. And don't forget the excuse they give as to who created God. They think they are free and clear because they say they don't know where God came from. I ask them;

Who created the universe ?

Fromabove


Are you watching what I’m saying, are you holding your breath fromabove?

I wonder about the creation of the universe, however, I don’t believe it was created by something else. Why? Because you can’t prove how that something else came to be, therefore tis (yeah, old school right there) unscientific. spamandham and I cannot tell you how the universe came to be, but can you tell us how god came to be?

Oh, you said you’ll ask god, so you can’t tell us?

Same argument you use against us can be used against yourself. First rule I learned about debating: Don’t give your opponents ammo.



Originally posted by junglejake
Fromabove, foolish and blind as Spamandham's comments may be, there are several people who hold this circular argument to maintain there is no God and no moral absloutes because the culture has taught them that to say there are moral absloutes is hateful because it tells some people that they're wrong and shouldn't be doing something. In order to justify that perspective, you have to believe there is no God and ignore any contradictions that may arise as a result.


You can’t deal in absolutes because it makes you irrational. Some situations are tricky. What would you do if you had to kill your entire family to stop them from dropping a nuke on downtown tokyo? Morality is relative because different situations require different mindsets. My circular argument for the lack of god is the same as the argument fromabove gave for the existence of god.




However, I am sure there are those here who are reading through this thread who are on the fence on the issue. Spamandham, while not looking for answers himself, nor willing to be challenged or learn something new, raises questions that the people who are on the fence may want answered. Saint, therefore, takes the time not because he thinks spamandham will be convinced of the Truth (though it could happen), but because of the silent majority reading the thread.


Assumption of righteousness and truth is one of the greatest crimes of arrogance anyone can commit.


In conclusion, christians, please move for the banning of fromabove, because he is the best example I can find of the hated christian. He does nothing more than further my case.

Thank you, you've been a terrific audience.


[edit on 20-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 08:46 PM
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Man would you look at you atheists go! Screaming and yelling all over the place. Spamandham, God doesn't have to strike you down now at this instant, He is patient and will wait till you come to Him. Madness, first Spamandham calls me stupid and now you too. I'll have to look over my posts to see if I called you that in the context you mean it. I don't need to say I know where God came from, I can see the universe. You can not get something from nothing. This is a fact. If the universe is here, it got here by some means. You can not explain it. That's not my fault. God does not exist in the physical as we do. We are from this universe. We come from Him. Hey, here's a thought, try it out. Let's say you go to sleep and you have a dream, any dream. It's one of those vivid dreams so real you can actually feel taste, etc. In what part of the brain does it come from? OK, let's say a certain portion made for the purposes of dreaming. Now when you dream, everything you do and see is actually inside your head, right? The whole universe you see and feel at the time exists only within the confines of your brain. Now say you walk for a hundreds of miles in your dream or fly off to Alpha Centari. Yet you never really left your head. But then you talk to people for a long time, how is this done, I wonder. Are the things in the dream real or are they perceptions of things as they appear. Consider that this whole universe is held together by the thought and will of a consciousness vast beyond anything known to the universe. Christians know all this as the "Word of God" that holds it all together. The universe is held together by force of the will of God. I know the universe is made. I exist in it. I percieve it is divinely made. So, I have an answer to give you. You cannot give me any answer and say "I don't know". And you openly call me stupid? One has to wonder and marvel.

Fromabove



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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When those who cannot carry on any type of discussion where they are always right, and where their own ideas prevail, they move for silencing of dissent. What you hear from Madnessinmysoul is the crux of all hatred and war. He would love to shut my mouth because he cannot give the answer to the question. He, and friends on board have called me insulting names, slandered my God because they can't stand any reference to Him, and has accused me and my fellow believers of all the evils of the world!

You will not hear me asking anyone to silence them. This is the difference between those who cherish truth and freedom and those who do not. Take note everyone and beware of how you speak to them cause they can't take it. This is a forum where opinion and dissent is allowed. God forbid they ever gain political office lest they ban free speech.

Fromabove



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Thanks spamandham
, but I'm still crazy right?


Of course! But that has nothing to do with your intelligence or demeanor.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
Spamandham, God doesn't have to strike you down now at this instant, He is patient and will wait till you come to Him.


I'll just have to take your word on that, seeing as there is nothing of substance to base it on. Your god doesn't seem to be up to the challenge of smiting me tonight.


Originally posted by Fromabove
Madness, first Spamandham calls me stupid and now you too.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. First you call me a stupid fool, and then you commit libel (aka false witness). If you can't back up this claim, you are a liar.


Originally posted by Fromabove
You can not get something from nothing. This is a fact.


Interesting conclusion considering that nothing does not exist, and thus you have nothing to base it on. (not to mention this is a strawman anyway).


Originally posted by Fromabove
If the universe is here, it got here by some means.


...therefor Jesus died for your sins - brilliant Einstein. Maybe you should apply for the Nobel prize.


Originally posted by Fromabove
And you openly call me stupid?


...another act of libel.



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
I can see the universe. You can not get something from nothing. This is a fact.

I know the universe is made. I exist in it. I percieve it is divinely made. So, I have an answer to give you. You cannot give me any answer and say "I don't know". .


Carl Sagan --Cosmos p.257

"In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from. And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and decide that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that God has always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?"


Why must God be the only possible answer? The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. With all that we dont know about the vast Universe that you can see, and those possibly that we can't, "I dont know" seems to me to be the wisest answer.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Charlie Murphy]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Carl Sagan --Cosmos p.257

"In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from. And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and decide that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that God has always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?"


Why must God be the only possible answer? The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. With all that we dont know about the vast Universe that you can see, and those possibly that we cant, "I dont know" seems to me to be the wisest answer.


I would agree that saving a step and believing that the universe has always existed would be the logical thing to do if the scientific evidence pointed to such a premise. With the evidence for the Big Bang theory however, most scientists would agree that the universe has only been in existance for a finite amount of time. If the universe has only been in existance for a finite amount of time, then it is logical to assume that there is an eternal force that caused the Big Bang, otherwise it would be an uncaused cause.

I may not be expressing myself correctly since I'm rushing to go to sleep, but I hope you get the basis of what I'm saying.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
With the evidence for the Big Bang theory however, most scientists would agree that the universe has only been in existance for a finite amount of time


The Big Bang was the conversion of energy to mass and matter, so it wouldn't really be a starting point, just the Universe in a different form. I think Sagan meant the Universe in what ever form could have always existed.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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It's been a good number of pages, so I wanted to reiterate that it's good to be here and appreciate you all for being here. This is both the most important and my favorite topic to talk about not only in the world but throughout history. I'm grateful for all the kindness and provocative thinking brought to the table.


Originally posted by junglejake
The Torah is actually the first 5 books of the Bible. Christ came to earth to fulfill the law. Paul makes it clear in several of the Epistles that if we place our faith in the Law, then we will be judged by the law. If, on the other hand, we place our faith in Christ, then we will be judged by Christ's forgiveness.


Especially, I'd like to thank JJ for this post. You've summed up in one paragraph what it'd take me many to explain. I was a little confused as to whether the law was fulfilled or abolished according to the Epistles but this here clarifies what I'm reading. Going back through, it's a snug fit now and makes a much more logical flow.

No matter what is said, I do care about you all. Let's be candid, but also seriously consider what each other is saying, so long as they are seriously considering before speaking themselves. And so, let's get on with it today
.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Also, people have been saying that the second coming is nigh for about the last 1960 or so years, so don’t hold your breath.


People have been saying that the second coming is nigh for 2000 years, actually. As Jesus explains, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - Matthew 24:36


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Same argument you use against us can be used against yourself. First rule I learned about debating: Don’t give your opponents ammo.


Ah, so you are playing games. I'm not here to play games.




Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You can’t deal in absolutes because it makes you irrational.


Why? My shirt is absolutely red.


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Some situations are tricky. What would you do if you had to kill your entire family to stop them from dropping a nuke on downtown tokyo?


You take the high road and try to prevent both
. Nobody said the right decision is easy. No matter how "impossible" it may seem, we must try.


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Morality is relative


No it's not.


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Assumption of righteousness and truth is one of the greatest crimes of arrogance anyone can commit.


Believe oneself to be equal or greater than God is one of the greatest crimes of arrogance anyone can commit



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
In conclusion, christians, please move for the banning of fromabove, because he is the best example I can find of the hated christian.


I've said my peace, and you've said yours. Let others use their own brains please.


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
He does nothing more than further my case.


What case?


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Thank you, you've been a terrific audience.


Audience huh? That's what we are to you? When is the "show" over? I'm getting tired of this act.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
Of course! But that has nothing to do with your intelligence or demeanor.


Thanks!



Originally posted by spamandham
I'll just have to take your word on that, seeing as there is nothing of substance to base it on. Your god doesn't seem to be up to the challenge of smiting me tonight.


I'd like to give this one a shot. Assuming that you're at a low-point of faith in your life (or no faith, I don't know), why would God slap you off the earth? Does that sound like something a loving God would do?


[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham


Originally posted by Fromabove
Madness, first Spamandham calls me stupid and now you too.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. First you call me a stupid fool, and then you commit libel (aka false witness). If you can't back up this claim, you are a liar.


Truth is the normal defence against spurious claims of libel. Lawyers' bills tend to deter the frivolous claimant from pursuing them.

Since this entire post seems to be a troll, written purely in the hope of inflicting pain or enraging, I wonder if there is a moderator around? Is this sort of post acceptable?

All the best,

Roger Pearse



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:41 AM
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It goes a little like this. Church and State. By Constitutional Decree they are to be seperate.

Christians want to put the 10 Commandments is Public Places. (I am no opposed to that, actually. Except that it defeats Constitutional Integrity). However, those same Christians would raise protest, even if their structures were/are allowed, if a Pagan Cult asked for and received the rights to place a statue of a dancing Satyr in Public.

In your argument you state that it is TRUE, and therefore it is a FORCE. If so true, and such a force (just to play the other side here, before the personal attacks start ensuing) then why cry foul when a different view lobbies for the same limelight you are seeking?

By the way, which Christianity are we arguing here? Catholsism? Babtist? Southern Babtist? Episcopellian sp? Mormon? Church of God? Nazareene?There are more CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS than flavors of tea, and more RELIGIONS than grains of sand. This is partly why so many people DON'T BELIEVE in RELIGION, becuase even the RELIGIOUS CAN'T AGREE. There is no UNIFIED FRONT.

My personal belief is there was once ONE TRUE RELIGION. Then a guy saw how he could benefit from spreading the word and grew jealous of the leader of his tribe. So he bent the story a bit and branched off, so he could be a leader instead of a follower. This happened many times over. Simple things like "It was an Apple!" "No! It was a Pomagranite!" led to divisions of tribes and blood shed. True Religion was forever lost, now merged or even ommitted entirely to be replaced with Agendas and Lies.

Even Christians can't agree on what a Christian is, proven by the seperation of so many different Christian Factions.



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