The Absolute Power of Christianity!

genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

beginning of the first account of creation.

genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

beginning of the SECOND account of creation.

genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

humanity is created

genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

a man is formed, creating humanity, AGAIN.

get it?

two seperate accounts.

antigovFZ777

Freedom of religion means FREEDOM of religion.

Sorry if i messed up in a few places, im sure you can figure out my point.

The question isn't whether or not you are free to express your religion. The question is whether, as a taxpayer, I am obligated to help pay for your expression of religion. I'd rather not be.

Another question is whether a government entity really needs to express any religious sentiments. Where in our governmental codes is it mentioned that religious expression is part of the government's job? It isn't, and I don't want to help pay for it.

damn straight, why should i have to pay for all of that religious spending?

also, why can't we tax these $multimillion megachurches that are as big as malls? i don't think a tax-free starbucks is required for any religion to properly worship, so shouldn't religious extravagence be taxed?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
also, why can't we tax these $multimillion megachurches that are as big as malls? i don't think a tax-free starbucks is required for any religion to properly worship, so shouldn't religious extravagence be taxed?

On the one hand, exempting religious facilities from taxation really is special treatment based on religion, which is unconstitutional.

At the same time, taxing them interferes with the free excercise thereof and could also be considered unconstitutional.

This one is a constitutional can of worms either way, but I'm willing to err on the side of freedom rather than the side of tax revenue.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
wait, how is there light without any lightsources? i mean the passage of time, how do you mark day or night without any lightsources?

Maybe God had a digital watch . Think about it, we can tell the difference between day and night without going outside, right? Why would it be challenging to the Creator of the universe?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and would the earth just be floating there, not orbiting anything?

Egads! Are you saying God didn't follow our understanding of Physics?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
damn straight, why should i have to pay for all of that religious spending?

You don't (unless you're providing offerings). Tax exempt means the government is not PENALIZING churches in the way they penalize commerce. Reason why is after your next statement.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
also, why can't we tax these $multimillion megachurches that are as big as malls?

Believe it or not, most churches have a very active role in charities, community support, and aide abroad. If they're not doing that, then I agree they need to get their behinds in gear. Easy for me to say though since I'm not a church.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i don't think a tax-free starbucks is required for any religion to properly worship, so shouldn't religious extravagence be taxed?

When Starbucks starts going non-profit and distributing free healthy food and drinks, perhaps they should be exempt too. Until then, you're paying for the CEO's new Lamborghini Diablo.



No, my pastor doesn't drive one . I don't believe he's overpaid for having the title Dr. before his name. And for the rest of us? Yeah, we're paying, not getting paid.



[edit on 19-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by spamandham
On the one hand, exempting religious facilities from taxation really is special treatment based on religion, which is unconstitutional.

I don't think the issue is about religion as it is about non-profit organizations. It's true there are exploits in some non-profit organizations, but that's why we now have quarterly reports and government audits. If you don't believe there aren't officials from the goverment who 'visit' the pews on Sunday morning, then they're doing a great job at remaining incognito. Rest assured, our government is there, and I think it's a good thing too because they have an agreeable critieria.

Originally posted by spamandham
At the same time, taxing them interferes with the free excercise thereof and could also be considered unconstitutional.

This one is a constitutional can of worms either way, but I'm willing to err on the side of freedom rather than the side of tax revenue.

That's a good way of looking at it. I'd not seen it that way before

Only one thing is infinate to man and it is stupidity. That being said. Search for God all you want, but you cannot find Him in any Physical sense. To say there is no God is to be a fool because this universe is not eternal. It is not infinate. But it is here and we are in it. Yet what put it here is God. God is not of this universe because it was created by Hm. I don't need to know so much how God began, because He left a footprint for me to know that He is. It is called the universe. One will deny God because he can't touch God, yet the same person will attempt to say that the universe was always here and is ever changing. What Bunk! This is to say that the universe suddenly began to exist and that it is eternal. Yet there is no God?
Those who deny God can never find Him. He will not talk to you. The only words you will hear will be from scripture, but you will deny that too. Yet you breathe air you cannot see, and you know good and eveil and cannot touch either with your hand. How much more foolish is it to say there can be no God who is Creator. Science works like this, you have a theory, you for a hypothesis, conduct a test, and take not of the result. Faith is from the heart and only through trust can you understand God.
As for Simon666, he is exelent in stupidity because not only does he worship a fallen angel and a defeated advasary, but he knows there is a God, but chooses to do evil anyway. Atheists, they really know there is a God because they both fear Him and fight against him daily. The science believers, they shopuld know there is a God by the complexity of human existance alone, yet they are lost in all their intelligence.
My opinion ? Yes, God is real. It is God alone who created the universe and all that is in it. He even created Simon666 and gave him a soul. Christianity in it's true form is about the truth of God, the need for redemption by the blood of Christ, and of loving others because it is the right thing to do and nothing more or less. Those who fear Christianity do not love, and want nothing of God and only justify their own ways. They don't even realize that they have blinded themselves from ever knowing God. Yet when they die, then they will know and believe but it will be too late for them all. I leave you with this thought.

" Congress shall not make any laws concerning religion, nor
shall they prohibit, forbid, deny, or prevent the free exercise
thereof"

Fromabove

Excuse all my type errors.

From above

I think you had a lot of great things to say, but care about you as a brother/sister so much that I wanted to point out the not-so-great things to say to help you grow and consider:

Originally posted by Fromabove
As for Simon666, he is exelent in stupidity

I've never heard any benefit in calling someone stupid, nor do I believe this statement to be true. There's a verse about judgement, but I'm sure you're familiar with it. (Matthew 7)

Originally posted by Fromabove
because not only does he worship a fallen angel and a defeated advasary, but he knows there is a God, but chooses to do evil anyway.

This has been the case since time began. Before I knew God personally, I did it, and I think most certainly you had done the same, knowing deep down there was God and yet denied Him. If not then, then even now you and I sin, do we not? We know what sin is and that it's displeasing to God, yet we catch ourselves during or after it. Why is that? "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23. You, me and Simon have that in common, so there's not much use in saying there's a massive difference in nature. The difference as you say, is accepting a redeemer who pays the debt of these wrongs in full. Neither of us deserve heaven, it is a gift and we've received it gladly, so help share the gift with as many people as you can...including Simon. If he still rejects, fine, but be there to help wherever possible.

Christianity in it's true form is about the truth of God, the need for redemption by the blood of Christ, and of loving others because it is the right thing to do and nothing more or less.

This is a good way of going about it I think.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Fromabove
Excuse all my type errors.

From above

The 'type errors' are excusable. The vitriolic nonsensicle babbling is not.

You come riding into town calling people fools and stupid, calling other positions bunk, and presenting lame strawman arguments, and you think that anyone is going to take you seriously? Ignorance denied.

Well... when I say stupid it's in this light. If I understand that running through a stop sign will get me killed but I am willing to do so anyway, I should consider this stupidity. The fool has said in his heart, "there is no God for me.." Saint4God, you and I may know what it's like to have our hearts forgiven, but to hear and understand and then reject it cause it's not your cup of tea is nothing but being foolish with life. Spamandham, you see everything from the norrow viewpoint of a physical universe. You would think that if there were God scientists would discover it? No, I don't think so. The law you stated in that the universe is in continual eventual slow down and decay is actually true. The universe is limited and "passing away"and that must drive you batty. Still, you cannot prove God does not exist by showing me the universe and some babble about how matter seems to know how to put everything together such as humans all by itself, without any plan or design, but I can show you the universe and it testifies that it is a creation made by God. So complex that there is no excuse. Denying God will never make Him go away. You'll only be running a stop sign.

By the way Spamandham, I didn't just blow into town, I was always here, and it's only when I feel I need to add my voice to others that I do.

Fromabove

Thanks for the clarification, though I still believe by your definition we're all stupid (or do stupid things). Maybe going easier on others and ourselves will be better received. We all get slapping hands throughout our day. By being the helping hand, that's when people begin to take notice, no? I think you have a right message otherwise.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by saint4God]

This one is a constitutional can of worms either way, but I'm willing to err on the side of freedom rather than the side of tax revenue.

I don't know. It seems I'm paying for Christ Presbyterian Church, and Christ Presbyterian Academy to have two full size gymnasiums, a top of the line football field, a tremendous soccer facility..yet they don't pay taxes?

Gee, I can't even paint the inside of the house we've had for 15 years. Give me some exemption so I may paint, or tax these behemoths.

When one turns on the Trinity Broadcasting Network and watches a gentleman speak of who to elect, etc I consider these churches and this network's tax exempt status kaput.

Thankyou Saint4God. I think you probably understand that it is not my intention to condemn anyone, nor is it my desire to judge anyone. It's that the stakes between life and death are very high and sometimes it takes strong words to wake up some. The feeding of the poor and helping of those in need are the real life meaning to the Christian. Yet it can't be underestimated the importance that Jesus talked about hell and the wages for sin. When He had to openly rebuke others He did so when they made accusation against God the Father or the Word of God, that is, things pertaining to God Himself. He didn't hate them but He did point out their errors. He needed to overturn the tables of the money changers, and call a viper a viper if need be. But He also sat with those who were most lost, even as we do. Simon666 and Spamandham and those like them don't understand who we are and why. They don't understand why we attempt to reach out to them. In this world it's easy to hate and have contempt for others. Anyone can do that, but how many can love and firgive and give to others just because it's the right thing to do? Jesus was willing to suffer for us all and His teachings are what we strive to follow. It is good to help others and give them a hand, but sometimes some will need a wakeup call and a rebuke. It is not you that they are insulting, or me, but our Father in Heaven that they fight against. If we don't warn them and they choose to continue in their fight against the God they deny, they will lose. Especially if they die in that state. Jesus has said that He will deny those who deny Him. Can you imagine putting your trust and life in the men of science who have just begun to scratch the surface of creation with their minds. Science will not be a defense at the judgment. And they say "there is no hell!" yet anyone ever having a nightmare knows how real it seems while you're in it. But they don't ask how come you can see, feel, and react to others in dreams that are in the mind of a man. When we leave this body that we now have, they don't realize that they will be going to another place for the soul to stay. For you and me this is Heaven because of Jesus. For those who reject God and die it is hell. It is real even though they deny it. The soul of man is alive and accountable to God. The question is, where are we going. My message today to those that deny is, if you don't believe in God or Jesus then I invite you, no, I challenge you to ask that God, if He be real that He would show you beyond any doubt. That he would make it impossible to refuse Him. Is there any reason why anyone could not at least ask God to reveal Himself to them. Jesus stands at the door and knocks. Invite Him in and ask Him to be real to you. Your life will never be the same. I know this because I was once an atheist and trusted in evolution. But when I finally understood I chose God. Now I know I will never die. I will change but I will never die. Since we are not promised that we shall wake up tomorrow, let us consider our destiny today.

Fromabove

Just a note for Madmanacrosswater. Politics and religion are forever joined, just ask Jesus. We exempt churches and their speech because of the Constitution, so you need to change the Constitution to lay a heavy tax burden on the behemouths. But if you need paint, ask the behemouth an see if they will freely give you all that you need.

Fromabove

Originally posted by Fromabove
If I understand that running through a stop sign will get me killed but I am willing to do so anyway, I should consider this stupidity.

Blindly taking the word of ancient anonymous mystics regarding things that make no sense at all can hardly be considered "wisdom". But you're not satisfied to bask in your own sense of superiority, you have to take it further and personally insult other posters.

If I called you a stupid fool for believing the bunk you believe, I'd get a warning no doubt.

Originally posted by Fromabove
The fool has said in his heart, "there is no God for me.."

Paul was a fool trying to defend his position against those who rightfully mocked is fanatical delusions. You have no reason to accept what he wrote except that it's been handed to you as 'scripture', and you blindly swallow that without question. The thought that some (or all) of the books might be nothing more than the writings of men never crosses your faith.

Originally posted by Fromabove
You would think that if there were God scientists would discover it? No, I don't think so.

Yet in spite of your own admission that god leaves no evidence to be found, you still think you know the inner workings of this being that you can't even verify exists. ...and I'm the fool?

Originally posted by Fromabove
The universe is limited and "passing away"and that must drive you batty.

Not really. The fact that neither you nor I nor any other human has all the facts regarding the universe in no way implies that a magic narcissistic sky daddy poofed it into existence. And even if you accept that the universe was "created", that in no way implies that such a creator in any way resembles your conception of it.

I don't feel the need to invent or latch onto fairly tales to fill in holes in knowledge. I see nothing wrong with saying "I don't know".

Originally posted by Fromabove
Still, you cannot prove God does not exist

You can't prove leprechauns don't exist.

Originally posted by Fromabove
but I can show you the universe and it testifies that it is a creation made by God.

No you can't. That argument only works on those who believe there is an objective purpose behind our existence, which of course implies a purpose giver. Such arguments are circular.

Originally posted by Fromabove
By the way Spamandham, I didn't just blow into town, I was always here, and it's only when I feel I need to add my voice to others that I do.

We're all so much more enlightened by your decision to jump in.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I don't know. It seems I'm paying for Christ Presbyterian Church, and Christ Presbyterian Academy to have two full size gymnasiums, a top of the line football field, a tremendous soccer facility..yet they don't pay taxes?

How are you paying for them?

You still won't understand that I am not calling you foolish or stupid. I told you what the word of God has said about people like you. It is after all it's the word of God you really hate is it not (yes, this is a question). You and I do not agree. Yet you go off on a temper tantum because you thought you could slam God and everyone was going to give you a pat on the back. I can just imagine that you probably tossed up the room in a tizzy fit. I don't expect you to believe in God, but I will give my opinion when I want to if you can give yours. Science is not the "end all". Trust in your evolution theories. Trust in a handful of myth makers we call scientists who claim they have the answers about life. They know nothing that they can't see. I was not here to talk about Leprickhans (excuse spelling) or who's a fool or not. I am only here to say that God is real, you cannot prove He is not, and to stand up for what is the truth. I'm not throwing things around the room and sandblasting you, but you are so upset in fighting a God you claim doesn't exist. I know I ruined your day, but so be it. In the end we still disagree. If you want to dish it out learn to handle what comes back.

Fromabove


PS Also, I don't always pay for it, sometimes I buy it and then just give it away.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Trust in a handful of myth makers we call scientists who claim they have the answers about life. They know nothing that they can't see.

Whoa hey *cough cough*

Originally posted by Fromabove
...about people like you.

I know I ruined your day, but so be it.

It's hard to hear the message with all that static.

Please don't think believers are judgementally uncompassionate spamandham.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by saint4God]