The Absolute Power of Christianity!

Excitable_Boy, you used two extreme examples to make a generalization of the whole. By that logic...

Every German behaves like this:


Every African American behaves like this:


Everyone from Wisconsin behaves like this:


Every communist behaves like this:


Everyone from China behaves like this:


etc, etc. You give me a group, I can give you an example of a nut that claimed to be part of that group. Does that mean the nut represents the mentality and beliefs of everyone in that group? You make the call.

Finally, to address some other aspects of your post...Every Christian is the born again variety. Hence John 3:3. Jesus was a mortal prophet? Then He was a false prophet and needs to be completely ignored. Unless, of course, you think the Bible twisted the information Jesus said and you have some kind of time machine that lets you know exactly what he did and did not say/do. Well, that or you just pick and choose in order to make a God or prophet that resembles yourself.

Kudos to Al Davidson for the Burtrand Russell quote. My guess is that most christians wouldn't know Burtrand Russell if he flew thjrough the air and slamed into their bible about which most of them know absolutely nothing relevant.
What fundies ignore is that the complaint from those who read, fundies call them liberals, is the annoying penchant of the true believer to badger innocent people with their superficial belief system. Oh, they're passionate enough and quote scripture while knowing less than nothing about when and by whom said scripture was rewritten, let anone anything about whatever proprietary purpose the particular revamping might have had.
It should be simple to understand that people do not want to be pounded by some individuals misunderstanding of whatever topic escapes them.
skep

Originally posted by skep
It should be simple to understand that people do not want to be pounded by some individuals misunderstanding of whatever topic escapes them.
skep

Ironic.

Originally posted by skep
Kudos to Al Davidson for the Burtrand Russell quote. My guess is that most christians wouldn't know Burtrand Russell if he flew thjrough the air and slamed into their bible ...
skep

Well, thanks but, I can't take full credit it for it - some other member used it in one of his/her posts and I just "stole" it because I liked it so well.

In the interest of full disclosure, I actually don't know a lot about Bertrand Russell, myself. I have read only excerpts of his work. I can generally agree with a lot of what I've read of his work.
Wikipedia - Bertand Russell

Originally posted by skep
Kudos to Al Davidson for the Burtrand Russell quote. My guess is that most christians wouldn't know Burtrand Russell if he flew thjrough the air and slamed into their bible about which most of them know absolutely nothing relevant.

Heh, heh. Go Al!

How many souls did Burtrand save again?


"Occupation?"
"Stand up philosopher."
"What?"
"Stand up philosopher. I coalesce the vapors of human existence into a viable and meaningful comprehension."
"Oh, a BULL$#*^ artist!"


[edit on 2-12-2005 by saint4God]

I suppose it would be convenient to stick a 'fools hat' onto anyone who has dared to question the dogma of the Christian Faith. However, when doing so, care should be taken as to who is the target of the mockery.
Also, it might be better for those who do the mocking to, at least, get the name right.

Bertrand Russell has written 70 books, between 1896 and 1975, exploring those ideas which are the meat and potatoes of modern life. His work stands out among other great philosophers because it relates to everyone.

Preface excerp: History of Western Philosophy ISBN0-04-109016-0

Philosophy, from the earliest times, has been not merely an affair of the schools, or of disputation between a handful of learned men. It has been an integral part of the life of the community...

For a selection of more Bertrand Russell quotes, see here

In keeping with the intent of this thread; The Absloute Power of Christianity, I would like to add this quote from the same aforementioned book, History of Western Philosophy:

pg. 311 The Christian religion, as it was handed over by the late Roman Empire to the barbarians, consisted of three elements: first, certain philosophical beliefs, derived mainly from Plato and the Neoplatonists, but also in part from the Stoics; second, a conception of morals and history derived from the Jews; and third, certain theories, more especially as to salvation, which were on the whole new in Christianity, though in part traceable to Orphism, and to kindred cults of the Near East.

.

Originally posted by masqua
I suppose it would be convenient to stick a 'fools hat' onto anyone who has dared to question the dogma of the Christian Faith.

I asked a legitimate question. Has anyone an answer?

Originally posted by masqua
However, when doing so, care should be taken as to who is the target of the mockery.

I happened to like the movie. Oh yeah, I forgot, Christians aren't allowed to engage in comedy.

As far as getting the name right, I copy pasted it as it was in skep's post so I'm not to blame for that one. You're pretty quick on the observation, but it was used to illustrate a point.

As far as the "History of Western Philosophy", I'd recommend to readers to read many sources of history to make an accurate assessment. The ones that don't make sense should be clearer.


[edit on 2-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
How many souls did Burtrand save again?

[edit on 2-12-2005 by saint4God]

I'm sorry, I didn't know this was a serious question. The honest answer would be... I don't know.

How many souls has Pat Robertson saved, Saint?

Originally posted by masqua
I'm sorry, I didn't know this was a serious question. The honest answer would be... I don't know.

That's a fair answer. I'll go as far as to say 0.

Originally posted by masqua
How many souls has Pat Robertson saved, Saint?

Also 0.

Is any of this starting to come into focus yet to anyone? (Hint: we've been talking about who has the power to save a soul all throughout this thread)

Originally posted by saint4God
Is any of this starting to come into focus yet to anyone? (Hint: we've been talking about who has the power to save a soul all throughout this thread)

I'll stick out my heretical hat on that one, saint, and I mean you no disrespect by this, But I think that the only person who can save a soul is the very one who believes there is such a thing.

It is only a person who accepts the reality of the soul within who is indebted to take care of it. It is some one like this who thinks twice about doing what they know is wrong, like lying or stealing, for example.

I truly do believe in the soul...it is my personal connection to the Creator. How I live my life and interact with others will be reflected in my soul and so I try to live my life accordingly. I know this is not the Christian way, but it is mine.

Finally, to address some other aspects of your post...Every Christian is the born again variety. Hence John 3:3. Jesus was a mortal prophet? Then He was a false prophet and needs to be completely ignored. Unless, of course, you think the Bible twisted the information Jesus said and you have some kind of time machine that lets you know exactly what he did and did not say/do. Well, that or you just pick and choose in order to make a God or prophet that resembles yourself.

First of all.....why can't a prophet be mortal? Why does that make him a false prophet? A prophet has to be immortal? That makes no sense. The Bibile is full of mortal prophets...they are false?

Secondly, this thread is called THE ABSOLUTE POWER OF CHRISTIANITY? What absolute power? And what does POWER have to do with religion? This is where you people get scary and freaky! Power? Power over what? Just the fact that you all have to prove your power shows you have NONE! The Buddhists quietly believe what they believe and dont' slam it down anyone's throats and that my friend is power. The power of FAITH! If you have faith, then you should take comfort in that...why feel the need to shove it down the throats of everyone you come in contact with? If this is what you do, you must sub-consciously be trying to prove it to yourself...because you do not truly have faith in your nonsense. You are using it as a crutch to make up for some flaws, defects or just plain nasty behavior going on in your life!! Asin, what's in your closet?

The early "Christians" turned Jesus into the Messiah to start their new religion and try to conquer the world with it. That's why supposed "Christians" have killed non-Christians since Christianity began in the name of Christianity? This makes sense? The Bible says "Thou shall not kill"...but, Christians have been killing non-Christians since Christianity began. Example....suppposed Christians came to the "new world" to turn the "savages" into Christians. If they didn't, they killed them. This is what a good Christian does? It seems the Born Again Cultians have created their own Bible which states "thou shall not kill another Christian....anyone else is fair game." GET A CLUE!!

You people are freaky cult members and should be slapped!

Originally posted by masqua
I'll stick out my heretical hat on that one, saint, and I mean you no disrespect by this, But I think that the only person who can save a soul is the very one who believes there is such a thing.

Man cannot save themselves, whether they believe they have a soul or not. I'll explain why after this next statement:

Originally posted by masqua
It is only a person who accepts the reality of the soul within who is indebted to take care of it. It is some one like this who thinks twice about doing what they know is wrong, like lying or stealing, for example.

True. Even moreso, a wrong can be something we fail to do that we should...or even a thought could be wrong. I wonder how many wrongs I've committed in a day? 50? 25? Let's say it's only 3, I'd be practically a walking angel. Over a year's time, that's over a 1,000 wrongs. At an average life-span of 70 years, that's more than 70,000 wrongs! What would a judge do to me if I were brought into court with more than 70,000 violations of the law on the books?

I truly do believe in the soul...it is my personal connection to the Creator. How I live my life and interact with others will be reflected in my soul and so I try to live my life accordingly. I know this is not the Christian way, but it is mine.

I think our lives and interactions are a reflection of our soul and am not sure why this wouldn't be the Christian way. What you're saying here seems to fit well with what's in the Book too.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
First of all.....why can't a prophet be mortal? Why does that make him a false prophet? A prophet has to be immortal? That makes no sense. The Bibile is full of mortal prophets...they are false?

No, but none of the prophets in the Bible claimed to be God.

Secondly, this thread is called THE ABSOLUTE POWER OF CHRISTIANITY? What absolute power? And what does POWER have to do with religion?

You really have to read the initial post to understand how tongue in cheek the subject was. The contention is that the assault on anything Christian would lead one to believe that folks like Newdow believe that the very sight of a Christian symbol is enough to convert someone. So again, tongue in cheek, read the initial post before condemning the subject of the post.

The early "Christians" turned Jesus into the Messiah to start their new religion and try to conquer the world with it.

Wow...That really didn't work very well for any of the early Christians getting tossed to lions, executed, exiled, etc. by Roman authority, did it...

It seems the Born Again Cultians have created their own Bible which states "thou shall not kill another Christian....anyone else is fair game."

Ahh...Being a born again Christian myself, how many people have I killed? Where in my translation of the Bible state that? Where in the 5,646 posts on this website have I made this claim? You're speaking of the group as a whole. That either makes you a bigot or accurate. In order to not be a bigot and be accurate, you have to apply the same model to every individual. Apply it to me.

GET A CLUE!!

Indeed.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
First of all.....why can't a prophet be mortal?

We're not talking about a prophet, we're talking about Christ.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Why does that make him a false prophet?

Because He said He is the Son of God, would be resurrected, was resurrected, etc. I'd recommend the book of John to help explain.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
A prophet has to be immortal? That makes no sense. The Bibile is full of mortal prophets...they are false?

No, but only Jesus was the Son of God.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Secondly, this thread is called THE ABSOLUTE POWER OF CHRISTIANITY?

Yes, it is.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What absolute power?

The power of God, who saved those who believe in His son Christ Jesus.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
And what does POWER have to do with religion?

This power is the gift of eternal life.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This is where you people get scary and freaky!

Don't worry, it's not people who have the power.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Power?

Yes. That's what we're talking about in this thread, hence the title.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Power over what?

Death.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Just the fact that you all have to prove your power shows you have NONE!

Your right that we have none and we cannot "prove" to any satisfaction. All we can do is direct those wanting the gift of eternal life to the One who does have the power and can give it.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The Buddhists quietly believe what they believe and dont' slam it down anyone's throats and that my friend is power.

I'll take eternal life over that any day, and as JJ has pointed out (and many of us here) we're not slamming anything down anyone's throats.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The power of FAITH! If you have faith, then you should take comfort in that...

Faith in what?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
why feel the need to shove it down the throats of everyone you come in contact with?

I guess this question wasn't directed at me.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If this is what you do, you must sub-consciously be trying to prove it to yourself...because you do not truly have faith in your nonsense. You are using it as a crutch to make up for some flaws, defects or just plain nasty behavior going on in your life!! Asin, what's in your closet?

That's an interesting judgement. Please go on doctor, tell me more about me. I'd like to hear it.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The early "Christians" turned Jesus into the Messiah to start their new religion and try to conquer the world with it.

Oh yes. Behold our massively armed army of Christians.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
That's why supposed "Christians" have killed non-Christians since Christianity began in the name of Christianity? This makes sense?

Nope and I'm glad you used "Christians" in quotes because they're not Christians if they do that.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The Bible says "Thou shall not kill"...but, Christians have been killing non-Christians since Christianity began.

What percentage is that again? I think you should've used those quote marks again to say that "Christians" have been killing...

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Example....suppposed Christians came to the "new world" to turn the "savages" into Christians.

Christianity had nothing to do with the mass genocide in the americas. I'm a bit peeved about that too since I have a native american heritage myself. I propose we start amends by giving some of it back. That's a story for another thread though.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If they didn't, they killed them.

Did they now. What book are you reading? I prefer historical fact myself.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This is what a good Christian does?

Absolutely not, but I suspect you already knew that answer deep down.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
It seems the Born Again Cultians have created their own Bible which states "thou shall not kill another Christian....anyone else is fair game." GET A CLUE!!

That would be a big problem, yes. Did you know Jesus had a lot to say about hypocrisy as well? I'm sure you and he could find common ground on that.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You people are freaky cult members and should be slapped!

For preaching non-violence, you sure do have a violent solution.



[edit on 2-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Man cannot save themselves

That would be an opinion, not an absolute.

What would a judge do to me if I were brought into court with more than 70,000 violations of the law on the books?

Eyes of needles and wishful camels comes to mind. I'm sorry to seem callous. but we are responsible for everything we do. I just can't accept that it is fine to lie and cheat because all will be forgiven by the sacrifice of a 'third party'.

I think our lives and interactions are a reflection of our soul and am not sure why this wouldn't be the Christian way. What you're saying here seems to fit well with what's in the Book too.

It snuggles a bit closer to the Creator, actually. The difference being that there is no reliance on the agony of Jesus Christ nailed to a cross. Thereby, it is a heresy to say that a person has a direct link to the Creator through the acceptance of a soul within. Why would we need a church at all, if one only had to look inside to find what some call God?

Originally posted by masqua
That would be an opinion, not an absolute.

Fortunately for me it's God's opinion and not mine.

Originally posted by masqua
Eyes of needles and wishful camels comes to mind.

Oh yes, the rich man...which is immediately followed up with "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." though I'm unsure how this relates. I'm glad we're on Bible-speaking terms, I'd like to delve into that more if you'd like. For those following along, we're discussing Matthew 19:16 - 30

Originally posted by masqua
I'm sorry to seem callous. but we are responsible for everything we do.

Yes, that an important characteristic of God. In reference to God, "Yet He does not leave the guilty unpunished." - Exodus 34:7b

However! The same Book that says that also says, "God is love" 1 John 4:8b, and throughout describes how He does not want to punish us (from Genesis to the Epistles).

He's Holy and righteous meaning He must punish sin, but loves us and does not want to punish us. That's a problem for us, isn't it? God solves our problem in the most amazing way. Through the person of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by masqua
I just can't accept that it is fine to lie and cheat because all will be forgiven by the sacrifice of a 'third party'.

We had a debt we couldn't pay (see example of 70,000 violations in court), so the man who knew no sin paid that debt. When Jesus says "Tetelestai", or "it is finished", that's also a financial term that means "the debt is paid in full". He didn't owe a debt, but was the last of the sacrifices (see Old Testament for what sacrifices were and why they were offered) to finally redeem those who believe. Those who believe need to turn from their old ways and go the right way, not just confess sin. There is no "third party" since Jesus is God the Son.

Originally posted by masqua
It snuggles a bit closer to the Creator, actually. The difference being that there is no reliance on the agony of Jesus Christ nailed to a cross.

The reliance is on the resurrection of Christ to prove that indeed his payment was acceptable.

Originally posted by masqua
Thereby, it is a heresy to say that a person has a direct link to the Creator through the acceptance of a soul within.

Uh...according to what church? I have a direct link with my Creator. In fact, Jesus teaches us to pray to God (our Father), not to him.

Originally posted by masqua
Why would we need a church at all, if one only had to look inside to find what some call God?

Education and fellowship. Arguably you can get the same education on your own but it is good to talk to others about God. It also gives you the opportunity to serve others, and that is certainly pleasing to God as well. Church is helpful in providing the tools to do His work daily. So long as they're a Bible-teaching church, I cannot see much reason not to go. This is coming from someone who only studied the Book at home for many, many years.

[edit on 2-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The power of FAITH! If you have faith, then you should take comfort in that...why feel the need to shove it down the throats of everyone you come in contact with? If this is what you do, you must sub-consciously be trying to prove it to yourself...because you do not truly have faith in your nonsense.

. The real purpose of "witnessing" is to convince the "witness". If these folks took the Biblical approach, they would simply share the "good news" and then wipe thus dust from their sandals for people like myself who don't accept it. They would not hang around arguing about it.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
...but, Christians have been killing non-Christians since Christianity began.

They've also been killing other Christians who have different perspctives. The church of Rome simply killed off competing sects of Christians who they considered heretics.

Originally posted by spamandham

. The real purpose of "witnessing" is to convince the "witness".

No it's not.

Originally posted by spamandham
If these folks took the Biblical approach, they would simply share the "good news" and then wipe thus dust from their sandals for people like myself who don't accept it. They would not hang around arguing about it.

How is that love? What Christian says "I don't give a d*mn about you, go ahead and burn, I'm moving on"?

Originally posted by spamandham
They've also been killing other Christians who have different perspctives. The church of Rome simply killed off competing sects of Christians who they considered heretics.

Test to see if your "Christian" is Christian. Bump him/her up to the following verses:

Exodus 20:13
Matthew 5:21

The Bible itself tells all of us to "Test Everything." (Thessalonians 5:12) which sounds like a precursor to "deny ignorance", does it not?

Originally posted by jake1997
JJ
You certainly hit on one thing I didnt notice before. The largest complaint you hear from liberals is that christians should keep it inside the 4 walls of the church. They dont want it following them out in the public square or in the court room or class room or TV or.....

Why? Its not like christianity is front and center everywhere. But whenever the least little bit shows up, people go nutz. There is plenty of other stuff being FORCED on society. Pick up the paper, turn on the TV. There are million dollar ad campaigns and political agendas being rammed down your throat and you take it lying down.
Along comes christianity with a little bit of convicting by the Holy Spirit and you fly into a rage against it.

hmm

Okay, i'm a recent convert to Theravada Buddhism, but before that i didn't realize exactly how much of your religion was being forced on me.
-i was forced to say God if i chose to say the pledge of allegiance
-i realized exactly how many of the portrayals of "wholesome" families were Christian, and all the disfunctional families were nonChristian
-whenever i watch the news issues concerning Christianity come to the forefront, but they ignore the more pressing story of genocide in Sudan.
-we've been forced to believe things are immoral if someone says it is against Jesus.
-Christians need no proof for religion, but i have to explain my Buddhist belief to anyone that hasn't already had that discussion with me

i challenge you to go up to a nonChristian and ask them "What do most Christians believe in?" and most of them will give you a fairly accurate assessment of mainstream Christianity. then go up to a Christian and ask "What do [Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Scientologists, etc] believe in?" and most of them will you horrible innaccurate portrayls of other religions, and some will get kind of close, and the rest will simply say that they don't know.

is that not evidence that Christianity is being forced down this nation's throat?

--------------------------------------
in addition...

if there is free will, than why is there only one path to God, enlightenment, paradise, or whathaveyou?

why would such a being give us free will just to see how many of us fall in line?

how can you endorse the hypocratic viewpoint of "God gave you free will so you can believe in this."?

i would just like to see why Christianity is right, and why all other religions are wrong, but for the sake of this thread just prove why Theravada Buddhism is wrong and why Christianity is right.

[edit on 3-12-2005 by madnessinmysoul]