The Absolute Power of Christianity!

Originally posted by shaunybaby
it has nothing to do with christians forcing their beliefs on me, or respecting my/their views. not sure where you got this from?

This whole thread is about the forcing of the Christian docrtine upon the public, and our reactions to it.

so because it's a religious document it cannot be deemed as ignorant?

First of all, what are they ignorant of?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
read up about the slaughtering of cathars...maybe you could read up on who did the slaughtering too.

That still doesn't explain where in the Bible it tells us to do so. Because individuals do something in the name of their religion, we are supposed to accept their actions as scripture? Some may believe they should follow an individual other than Christ, but I am not one of them. So, in short, I don't care what some people in the past might have done in the name of my religion, if my religion does not support what they did, then they manipulated the religion to gain personal power. Scripture holds weight with how I live my life, others mistakes or manipulations do not.

Originally posted by junglejake
That still doesn't explain where in the Bible it tells us to do so. Because individuals do something in the name of their religion, we are supposed to accept their actions as scripture? Some may believe they should follow an individual other than Christ, but I am not one of them. So, in short, I don't care what some people in the past might have done in the name of my religion, if my religion does not support what they did, then they manipulated the religion to gain personal power. Scripture holds weight with how I live my life, others mistakes or manipulations do not.

the only reason your religion doesn't act out now is because there are laws today that govern us. before there were just the monarcy and they would decided everything, and could use religion or the bible as their excuse. although clearly leaders of countries are aloud to act on god's will, and kill in the name of god, and kill the ''evil ones''...george bush being the prime example.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
This whole thread is about the forcing of the Christian docrtine upon the public, and our reactions to it.

actually the 'absolute power of christian/forcing their beliefs' at the start of the thread is supposed to be satire?

First of all, what are they ignorant of?

ignorant of other gods and religions.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the only reason your religion doesn't act out now is because there are laws today that govern us.

That's funny, I thought it was scriptural. Where in scripture, again, does it say to kill in Christ's name?

And yes, the subject of this thread is satirical. Seems like people assume the mere presence of a cross will floor individuals and force them to become Christian.

Originally posted by junglejake
That's funny, I thought it was scriptural. Where in scripture, again, does it say to kill in Christ's name?

''They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman''. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

'If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through'. (Zechariah 13:3)

''you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

'If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst'. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

Yep, didn't see Christ mentioned in any of that. As I said, there are specific incidents that are mentioned, and there are also cases of the death penalty imposed by the Levitican Law unto the nation of Israel. Christ also freed us from the law, if we but put our faith in him. As I posted earlier today in one of those inconsistancy dealy-os:

Galatians 5:1-6:

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

are you trying to prove to us that god exists because you say so? maybe you have become so religious because you feel guilty about your sins and all the bad things you've done in your life, and feel somehow you need to be guided to be kept away from that?

I am saying that God exists because the Bible says that He does, and because I believe in what It says, that I have a relationship with Him the Creator of the universe!
How else would you explain all of those “coincidences”? Let me repeat myself- there have been too many of those “coincidences” to be mere coincidence. “…and His sheep follow Him because they know His voice.” John 10:4

I have nothing to be guilty of. God has forgiven by every sin.
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

This whole thread is about the forcing of the Christian docrtine upon the public, and our reactions to it.

I’m not trying to force anything on anyone. I’m just trying to get you to see the Truth.

Consider a blind man who was walking towards a steep cliff. Wouldn’t you do everything in your power to get the man to change his course to safety?

Originally posted by junglejake
Yep, didn't see Christ mentioned in any of that. As I said, there are specific incidents that are mentioned, and there are also cases of the death penalty imposed by the Levitican Law unto the nation of Israel. Christ also freed us from the law, if we but put our faith in him.

i didn't say jesus told them to go and kill. i said the bible did, which is true. however, apparently george bush gets memos from god telling him to go get the evil ones.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i didn't say jesus told them to go and kill. i said the bible did, which is true. however, apparently george bush gets memos from god telling him to go get the evil ones.

I don't usually do this, but:

Originally posted by junglejake
That still doesn't explain where in the Bible it tells us to do so. Because individuals do something in the name of their religion, we are supposed to accept their actions as scripture? Some may believe they should follow an individual other than Christ, but I am not one of them. So, in short, I don't care what some people in the past might have done in the name of my religion, if my religion does not support what they did, then they manipulated the religion to gain personal power. Scripture holds weight with how I live my life, others mistakes or manipulations do not.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
however, apparently george bush gets memos from god telling him to go get the evil ones.

...the fruit of faith; turning men into fruits. (unfortunately, nuclear armed fruits)

Originally posted by just me 2
I am saying that God exists because the Bible says that He does, and because I believe in what It says, that I have a relationship with Him the Creator of the universe!

nice basis for your argument... 'i believe in god, because the bibles says so!' classic

How else would you explain all of those “coincidences”? Let me repeat myself- there have been too many of those “coincidences” to be mere coincidence.

a coincidence is a coincidence. a string of coincidences, hence more than one, doesn't mean you have to relate them to god. i don't get why so many people use the excuse to believe in god that there are too many coincidences? if a person won the lottery one week and again the next, would that therefore be too much of a coincidence?

I have nothing to be guilty of. God has forgiven by every sin.
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

my point exactly about you feeling bad about your sins and lifestyle before christ. you even admitted you hadn't acted too well in your life, with all the sins etc...just so happened you joined a religion where all your sins are revoked

This whole thread is about the forcing of the Christian docrtine upon the public, and our reactions to it.

I’m not trying to force anything on anyone. I’m just trying to get you to see the Truth.

i didn't write that quote ''whole thread is about forcing etc etc''...

as for your comment...''i'm not forcing anything on anyone, i'm just trying to get you to see the truth''.

you're not forcing it on me...but you want me to see that you're right and your beliefs are true...?

Consider a blind man who was walking towards a steep cliff. Wouldn’t you do everything in your power to get the man to change his course to safety?

since when do you ever see a blind person walking toward a cliff...did he lose his stick or guide dog?

or are you suggesting that i'm in someway blind to your beliefs?

let me stress it is not up to 'you' to do everything in your power to change that person's course.

[edit on 11-10-2005 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by junglejake
I don't usually do this, but:

Originally posted by junglejake
That still doesn't explain where in the Bible it tells us to do so. Because individuals do something in the name of their religion, we are supposed to accept their actions as scripture? Some may believe they should follow an individual other than Christ, but I am not one of them. So, in short, I don't care what some people in the past might have done in the name of my religion, if my religion does not support what they did, then they manipulated the religion to gain personal power. Scripture holds weight with how I live my life, others mistakes or manipulations do not.

i normally do this as no one seems to get what my post is about or completly misses the point... ''that still doesn't explain where in the bible is tells us to do so''... i believe i pointed out numerous quotes that were probably followed a little too closely by some believers. i never said that you also led your life by those quotes. you asked me where in the bible it said...and i showed you where.

[edit on 11-10-2005 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by shaunybaby

First of all, what are they ignorant of?

ignorant of other gods and religions.

To be ignorant of other gods and religions is to not know about them. I don't think you can stereotype a whole religion so as to make all of its adherents ignorant upon a particular subject.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
To be ignorant of other gods and religions is to not know about them. I don't think you can stereotype a whole religion so as to make all of its adherents ignorant upon a particular subject.

the bible states that any other god is not to be idolised, and is hereby deemed satanic and false. doesn't matter what god or religion, or how much you know or don't know about them...the bible tells you they are satanic and false. that's ignorant. but that seems to be good ignorance, as it's part of your beliefs as a christian, it's part of the job title etc... that's like a member of the kkk saying hating black people isn't racist...it just comes with the job.

Know your enemy?

To the Bible quotes, they all came from the Old Testament. Those that were not specific commands were part of the original Israeli Law. While it would be a legitimate question to ask Jews why they don't still follow that, I demonstrated through the fulfillment of scripture (i.e. the New Testament) why those laws no longer hold true. As a result, Christians are not to follow them. We are commanded to obey our nations laws by Christ, unless they go against God. That passage in Galatians, along with several others, shows that not killing is not going against God. That is also the reason I put that "(in context)" comment in there. While it may appear as though those passages are in context as quoted, the entire book must be taken into account for scripture to be interpreted correctly. In its full context, those verses do not tell us to kill any longer.

JJ,

In your opinion, how much of the OT applies to today's Christian? I have used the Sermon on the Mount to discredit the old "Eye for an eye..." mentality before, however, until now I thought that most Christians followed the OT as much as the NT.

you're not forcing it on me...but you want me to see that you're right and your beliefs are true...?

They (my beliefs) are true. Just because you don’t believe in the God of the Bible does not make Him any less true. If you stand on the freeway, and say, “I don’t believe in trucks” but sooner or later, one is going to hit you!

Consider a blind man who was walking towards a steep cliff. Wouldn’t you do everything in your power to get the man to change his course to safety?

I will pray that God will open your eyes! (Not to mention your heart, mind and soul too!)

let me stress it is not up to 'you' to do everything in your power to change that person's course.

Mark 16:15 “He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.”

Matthew 28:19
”Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

I'm just obeying my Lord and Savior!

Originally posted by just me 2
They (my beliefs) are true.

you claimed you're not forcing your beliefs on anyone? you're forcing the fact that your beliefs are true and mine therefore are not true.

Just because you don’t believe in the God of the Bible does not make Him any less true. If you stand on the freeway, and say, “I don’t believe in trucks” but sooner or later, one is going to hit you.

first blind people walking off cliffs...now trucks, not believing in them and one hitting you...i love your hypotheticals.

I will pray that God will open your eyes! (Not to mention your heart, mind and soul too!)

you're not gonna force anything on me, other than what you believe is true, and your prayers...so far there's not much more you could force on me, other than a leaflet about your church perhaps.

Mark 16:15 “He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.”

does that translate as force everyone to listen or merely help others believe?

[edit on 11-10-2005 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by DogWasCat
JJ,

In your opinion, how much of the OT applies to today's Christian? I have used the Sermon on the Mount to discredit the old "Eye for an eye..." mentality before, however, until now I thought that most Christians followed the OT as much as the NT.

good point.

the way JJ put it was as if christians didn't need the OT, why then do they print the bible with both...would save on paper and reading time if it was just the NT. but then again all the prophecies about jesus are in the OT, so they don't agree with some parts but the on parts like prophecy in the OT they do agree on.