The Absolute Power of Christianity!

Glad to hear you're still with us on this thread.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
When President Truman dropped Atmoic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki he killed millions of innocent men women and children. Now at frist this may seem like soemthing terrible, but when you consider what he prevented its not that bad. He in effect stopped World War II, saving more lives than were lost. Do you see my reasoning?

I do. I've tossed this one around in my head for many years. I'm not able to give a lovely answer that will wrap the situation in a nice neat package. Anyone would be correct in saying that I would make a lousy military commander. Still, the job is there and it is necessary to fill it, isn't it? Or is it? Have you ever seen the movie Hero?



I cannot tell you what I'm not told (else it'd be just my opinion) but I can tell you what I am told which is this:

"You have heard that is was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:43).

I am incapable of loving and killing another person.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I was talking about assisted suicide.

My bad. Okay, doctors being punished for assisted suicide? For me, it's like putting a gun in jail for being involved in a robbery. Just how I see it. The only reason I can think of a reason why anyone would want to jail a doctor is by vengeance (stating neglect or some other poor counseling) for loss of a loved one. This too I think is wrong. A physician is a highly specialized mechanic for the body, not a moralist, psychologist, counselor, etc. that I'm aware of.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
That should be their choice to make.

People make bad decisions sometimes. Over a decade ago, I contemplated suicide. If there was even one person who encouraged that I should, then most likely I would've. In retrospect, that would've been a huge mistake. I had no idea the impact that would've had on my parents, what few friends I have, now current spouse and child. As Jimmy Stewart represented, "It's A Wonderful Life", though I did not see that at the time.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy

Originally posted by saint4God
Rather, we're making the decision on that child's fate before giving her/him a opportunity to decide for themselves. That's where I think we're committing the error.

Well once he has the ability to reason, its illegal for him to make that desicion.

You're absolutely correct. The question is though, does a person who commits suicide concerned about what is 'illegal'? S/he has no charges to answer for. Abortion means the child has no opportunity to make that decision on their own.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Thats my point, its not being used as intended.

And a good one too. Therefore I think it's each of our individual responsibility to recognize when the system works and willingly obey when it makes good sense. Here's a prime example. Do we drive:



in order to avoid a:


(this was taken from a road I travel twice a day. Hardly anyone drives under 80.)

or do we interpret the sign as:


Because it's infringing upon our 'freedom' in our rights as individuals?



JJ, thanks for picking up the question of translation on the last page. Well said!

[edit on 2-9-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i think if someone wants to be put out of their misery, and believe there not to be any worse misery ahead if this 'act' is carried out, then by all means they should have that 'choice'.

Being on the verge of suicide myself, I could not stand idly by to watch someone else about to make a serious mistake (see above post).

Originally posted by shaunybaby
that's really what it's all about 'choice'. problems start to arise when you have people who can no longer communicate, and can you assert 100% that this is what she/he would want. by all means life is important and we should cherish it, but i think in certain circumstances we've just got to say 'just kill me now'...'get it over with'.

I hear ya and believe me understand where you're coming from. It was exactly what I was thinking when I was drawing up the plans for my own demise. See, my fear was not death, but failing in the attempt and having to live through yet another embarrassment. Did I kill myself? Obviously no. Do I regret my desicion not do? Absolutely not. Hi, my name is saint4God, and I'm a recovered suicidal person. I had a problem. Thank you God, parents, and friends for not letting me make the wrong choice.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
it's the same scenario as abortion, that right and wrong case. however, if we lose our 'choice' to choose if we have an abortion or not, or the choice to die when we want, then we lose the essence of our human selves. that choice should still be available, and when that choice is made some people will think it's the wrong one and some people will think it's the right one, but as long as the choice is there, i'm happy.

The problem is one person's choice negates another's.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by saint4God
Rather, we're making the decision on that child's fate before giving her/him a opportunity to decide for themselves. That's where I think we're committing the error.

i believe this to be a very, very strange comment to make. when in fact would a child be capable of saying 'yeah, i wish i'd never been born'. that's a phrase used, as we all do sometimes in moments of anger or frustration, but we never 'mean' it. however, if a child 'really' did mean it, and perhaps thought to himself, 'it would have been better if my mum got an abortion'...exactly what age is a child ready to make a decision like that.

We all reach mental maturity at different levels. The age of reason is typically between 9 - 15 from what I've heard from a counselor. I hope they never say that and mean it, but I do know it's a violation to make that choice for them.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
this then goes back to previous statements i've made about 'children' in church, the children of christian parents, who are taken to church before they can make any sort of rational decision about their future.

This rings clear as a bell. I think you and I have a lot in common shauny. I was forced to go to church when I was a kid, before the age of reasoning. It caused me to hate Christianity (including God) because it was boring, long, seemingly pointless, and one-sided. Years later in search of anything beyond human capacity, I found God though spent my studies at home. Sometimes I was 'into it', sometimes not. It wasn't until several years later that I showed up at a church with any consistency because they didn't seem to excite me or activate me in a useful way for both the church and I.

As a Christian and a parent, here's the two possible dialogues I have with my child:

#1
Me: Do you want to go to church with me?
Kid: Yeah.
Me: Cool, we'll go tomorrow.

#2
Me: Do you want to go to church with me?
Kid: Nah.
Me: Aight.

I know, I know, I should be saying "alright" instead of "aight" but we have a house rule that you can use slang IF you know the proper word too.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the lies we are told as children...santa, tooth fairy, don't watch too much tv or your eyes will go square, and many more. most lies adults tell us when we are young are to provide an 'illusion'. when you find out santa isn't real, most of the fun of christmas is gone, you no longer sneak downstairs and wait. or perhaps looking at the tags on christmas presents on christmas eve and seeing ones from santa already there...you just put two and two together. the same with the tooth fairy, don't tell you parents you lost a tooth, and your tooth will be eaten by tiny bacteria before you get 50p. so as a child, when you're being told all these little lies, why then would you take your christian parent's word for it, that christianity is true?

You're absolutely correct. I am unable to lie to my child. Then, I get the backlash of "WHAT?! Do don't let them have any fun with santa/easter bunny/tooth fairy/etc. ? Sheesh, I'd hate to live in your house..." but you know what? She does not have any less fun than any other kid. She knows these things are fictional stories like pretend drawings on a piece of paper or a cartoon. She could choose not to believe me if she wanted and hope for santa/toothfairy/etc. but when she finds out they don't exist, she will not look at me disappointmented. There's a tremendous amount of trust that builds up when you tell a child the straight answer even though it's a heavy one for their age.

Example:
Kid: Do aliens exist?
Me: I do not know. They haven't bothered to say hello to us if there are, and aren't hostile if they know we're here because we're still here.

Kid: Do witches exist?
Me: Yes, I know a few and grew up with more. They don't wear pointy hats, ride broomsticks and cackle evilly. At least, none that I've met.

Kid: Do ghosts exist?
Me: I believe forms of ghosts exist, though I've never 'seen' one. I believe that everyone beyond the human world has a definate good or evil about them. You do not need to be afraid of them though, this house is under good protection. (Notice my use of the words 'I believe' when there isn't first hand experience to rely upon)

Kid: Is thunder really God bowling?
Me: No. Where'd you hear that?
Kid: Summer Camp.
Me: Ah. Sometimes kids make things up to explain things they don't understand. A lot of times it's just for fun and using their imagination.

The benefit I'm finding is she has no problem coming to me for any questions because she knows she's going to get a straight answer. She comes to me with complex problems and situations which is surprising since I usually kept things to myself as a kid. Hopefully she'll continue to do so throughout her years.

All very good points Shauny, and at the heart of the matter too. I enjoy these discussions most of all. Tough questions, making one think. I don't have all the answers, I'm just saying I know who does and He has an open-door to talk to Him.


[edit on 2-9-2005 by saint4God]

what is religion? seriously. not everyone considers themselves a part of a religion. does it mean these people just have never had an experience that made them think they could be wrong? because all the time i hear people had a near death experience and then they became religious. or they had some sort of godly experience and thus became religious. what about the people that aren't religious...are their minds just not open? because usually if you're not cured at a faith healing rally (which is actually everyone) then you are blamed for not allowing god to heal you.

my mind was open for 18 years, never did i have any sort of experience that made me think there might be a god. is that then my fault? should i be condemned to hell just because of that?

usualy religion uses the unexplanable to explain why what they believe is true. i have a friend, she really believes in god, and she says shes spoken in tongues and also gave me a story how one time she couldn't use her legs, etc and told me it was the holy spirit. so this is how god reaches us?...disables us and makes us speak in funny words?

it's like someone saying they were abducted by aliens and then woke up in their bed etc. some people may make it up for attention, yet some probably really do believe it happened. it's just the same as someone saying they had an experience with god. maybe they didn't but in their mind they think they did. if anything religion is more physchological than it is reality. my friend also has two parents, both are chirstian, her brother also chirstian and surprise surprise...she also turned out christian. not muslim, not hindu...christian. a religion that has as their saviour some long haired white very feminine looking man...yeah that's what jesus would have looked like

Thankfully, when I was a youngin', I never had to deal with those illusions. Not entirely, that is.

"Ok, put the tooth under your pillow and the tooth fairy will take it and replace it with a dollar"

"Is there really a toothfairy, mom?"
"...No, no there's not."
"Will I still get a dollar"
"Yep"

That's the one I remember, but apparently all the others followed the same route. It was talked about, but when directly questioned, the truth came out. I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I've found that most ex-hippie parents react this way. The still hippy parents seem to maintain the illusion, but I only have one example of one of those in my life, and she would add more to the illusion to the point where the kids would think it's so unbelievable it must be true. Dunno why that is.

As a result, I came from a different perspective growing up. I was raised to be a skeptic. To question everything until you knew it to be false. I've said this several times on this site, but I'll say it again because it's pertenant. This is why I almost scramble to questions on ATS that I don't have the answer to in regards to something I believe. I am looking for that evidence that will prove my belief false. Hey, if I am wrong about Christianity, I want to know, because I'll be wasting my life otherwise. Thing is, I haven't found any proofs that I'm wrong. Sure, there's theory and conjecture, but let's face it. When you're presented with a theory against your own with little or no evidence, which side are you going to fall in? Especially if you've tested your theory time and time again and found it to not be lacking? If you think this is BS, I ask you to check out several evolution threads.

If you read through the whole thread that I link to in my signature, you will see how this principle was applied to my discovery of Christianity. Christ is no easter bunny, and He's no Santa Claus[e ], He's a historical figure, according to many archelogical and historical records. At that point you have to explore more yourself. What you find may shock you and rattle your beliefs to their core.

Oh, and saint, it's "aite"

Originally posted by junglejake
Christ is no easter bunny, and He's no Santa Claus[e

], He's a historical figure, according to many archelogical and historical records.

Name a single credible archaeological or historical record that contradicts the position that Jesus is a myth. If you can not produce any, then the records refer to also do not add any significant weight to the position that he was a historical figure considering the magical mystical aspects of the stories.

Originally posted by saint4God
Anyone would be correct in saying that I would make a lousy military commander. Still, the job is there and it is necessary to fill it, isn't it? Or is it? Have you ever seen the movie Hero?

No, I havent seen it but my friend told me it was a good movie. I can understand a need for police, but the only reason for a military, is because of our enemies military. Maybe my view is a little biased because I dont live in a third world country, I just dont understand how countries could still be fighting each other in the year 2005.

Originally posted by saint4God
I am incapable of loving and killing another person.

What if your wife/child, or anyone you loved was in pain and asked you to put them out of their misery? I dont mean to put you on the spot with an uncomfortable question, but this is the situation that the doctors were in.

Originally posted by saint4God
Over a decade ago, I contemplated suicide. If there was even one person who encouraged that I should, then most likely I would've. In retrospect, that would've been a huge mistake.

I think everyone's thought about it at one time or another. Not necessarily killing themselves, but the what would happen if they did. When I was depressed awhile ago I thought about it. I knew it would create more sadness then it would stop. The funny thing is, nowadays I couldnt care less about what I was so worried about before.

Originally posted by saint4God
You're absolutely correct. The question is though, does a person who commits suicide concerned about what is 'illegal'? S/he has no charges to answer for. Abortion means the child has no opportunity to make that decision on their own.

Well of course suicide doesnt have any consequences, but attempted suicide does. I still think abortion should still be legal, but not as lax as it is now. All necessary precautions should be taken, and it should be a last resort. To make it illegal though is to take away a person's freedom.

Jake-

Originally posted by saint4God
JJ, thanks for picking up the question of translation on the last page. Well said!

I know what your saying but there wasn't just a Bible that said-The Original Copy. I was under the impression the contents of the Bible was collected from scrolls and such and combined into one. The Bible itself doesn't necessarily have to be translated for its contents to have been translated.

Darkness himself, Charlie Murphy



[edit on 5-9-2005 by Charlie Murphy]

Originally posted by junglejake
As a result, I came from a different perspective growing up. I was raised to be a skeptic. To question everything until you knew it to be false. I've said this several times on this site, but I'll say it again because it's pertenant. This is why I almost scramble to questions on ATS that I don't have the answer to in regards to something I believe. I am looking for that evidence that will prove my belief false. Hey, if I am wrong about Christianity, I want to know, because I'll be wasting my life otherwise. Thing is, I haven't found any proofs that I'm wrong. Sure, there's theory and conjecture, but let's face it. When you're presented with a theory against your own with little or no evidence, which side are you going to fall in? Especially if you've tested your theory time and time again and found it to not be lacking? If you think this is BS, I ask you to check out several evolution threads.

If you read through the whole thread that I link to in my signature, you will see how this principle was applied to my discovery of Christianity. Christ is no easter bunny, and He's no Santa Claus[e

], He's a historical figure, according to many archelogical and historical records. At that point you have to explore more yourself. What you find may shock you and rattle your beliefs to their core.

the thing is maybe there's no evidence or facts right now that will change your beliefs. but what facts and evidence did you exactly find that made you a christian? was it the prophecies? the miracles performed by jesus?

the problems with the prophecies are that they are not fulfilled by jesus, but fulfilled by the four gospel authors, of which never knew or met jesus. so if you want 'proof' you cannot look at prophecies. the same goes for the mircales performed by jesus, absolutly no evidence suggests he ever performed miracles, other than the four gospels. jesus was not the only self-proclaimed 'messiah' around at that time, he was not the only person to be killed for being-so. he was found guilty of performing fake miracles and of being a fake messiah, thus was executed.

also perhaps what is wrong is when you find sites like this

www.skepticfiles.org...

i love his spelling of ''comet'', changed in to the lesser known version of ''commit''.

this page offers some fantastic disinformation, some misinformation and above all absolutly no evidence whatsoever to back up the claims. the problem?...it's the fact that christians and creationists will go on there and to them that's 'proof' that they are right. it's the same as going to church as listening to everything as word for word proof and fact, which it most certainly is not.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Jake-
I know what your saying but there wasn't just a Bible that said-The Original Copy. I was under the impression the contents of the Bible was collected from scrolls and such and combined into one. The Bible itself doesn't necessarily have to be translated for its contents to have been translated.

You make a good point. The scrolls, however, were originally written in Greek. There are actually thousands of old transcripts of the gospels and epistles from way back in the day still in existence today. In about 250 BC the old testament, aka Torah, was translated from Hebrew to Greek. 200 years before that it had been translated from Hebrew into Aramaic. Both times were to account for the prevalent languages spoken and read by the Jews. At the time Christ came, Greek was the standard "learned" language, used for most writing at the time in the area of Israel.

The Pauline Epistles, Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Luke, and the book of Acts are all dated from 45-63 A.D., while the Gospel of John and Revelations may have been written as late as 95 A.D.

We also have, of course, the authenticity. How well can these manuscripts be trusted? There are, as I said, over 5,600 ancient manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament. In comparison, the general source of Roman history, Tacitus' Annals of Imperial Rome, which is dated about 116 A.D., has only one remaining copy, yet is held as true.

There is still the question of a gap between 63 A.D. and 125 A.D., the earliest date a manuscript from John exists (named P52). There are, however, letters that corroborate the New Testament Gospels from church leaders sent to one another, including those epistles written by Paul, who actually signed them in his own hand. The events were known at the time, even if we don't have copies of the original Gospels. Papyrus does not hold up very well.

The book of Acts was written before 67 A.D. It details eye witness accounts of the beginning history of the church. It also includes persecutions and martyrdoms, which are mentioned repeatedly. Yet three me, Peter, Paul, and James the brother of Jesus' martyrdoms are not mentioned in Acts. They took place in 67 A.D. Also, the church in Jerusalem played heavily in the book of acts, but the city was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. The book ends with Paul under house arrest in Rome. He was martyred in 65 A.D., 1 year after Nero blamed the burning of Rome on the Christians.

The Gospel of John also claims to be written by a disciple. That's important, because the followers of Christianity were referred to as apostles except the 12 who traveled with Christ. Recent archeological evidence has confirmed both the existence of the Pool of Bethesda and that it had 5 porticoes, as mentioned in John 5:2. It seems unimportant, but this incidental information leads to believing that the author knew of the pool, and had seen it. Since the Pool of Bethesda was destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., it would lead one to believe the book must have been written before.

Darkness himself, Charlie Murphy

Hehe you give yourself far too much credit I enjoy these conversations with you because they get me to go deeper into my faith and beliefs. Now how could darkness its self do that?

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
No, I havent seen it but my friend told me it was a good movie.

I highly recommend it. I cannot say how it pertains to what we're talking about without giving the movie away.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I can understand a need for police, but the only reason for a military, is because of our enemies military. Maybe my view is a little biased because I dont live in a third world country, I just dont understand how countries could still be fighting each other in the year 2005.

Totally agreed.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
What if your wife/child, or anyone you loved was in pain and asked you to put them out of their misery? I dont mean to put you on the spot with an uncomfortable question, but this is the situation that the doctors were in.

Where there is life, there is hope.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I think everyone's thought about it at one time or another. Not necessarily killing themselves, but the what would happen if they did. When I was depressed awhile ago I thought about it. I knew it would create more sadness then it would stop. The funny thing is, nowadays I couldnt care less about what I was so worried about before.

Exactly! At the time it seems like there's no possible good outcome except death, but getting through it, I can clearly see the only possible bad outcome was self-inflicted death.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Well of course suicide doesnt have any consequences, but attempted suicide does.

Is the result of an attempted suicide a punishment though or an attempt to help? What I thought was most astounding is when my spouse had attempted, the psychologist said "go home, live your life". Though grateful, wondered if 'society' really cared. Didn't look like it to me.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I still think abortion should still be legal, but not as lax as it is now. All necessary precautions should be taken, and it should be a last resort. To make it illegal though is to take away a person's freedom.

What is a last resort?

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Darkness himself, Charlie Murphy

Hello darkness, it's me again. Remember last time? My you're awfully subtle these days, are you feeling well?

Originally posted by junglejake
You make a good point. The scrolls, however, were originally written in Greek. There are actually thousands of old transcripts of the gospels and epistles from way back in the day still in existence today. In about 250 BC the old testament, aka Torah, was translated from Hebrew to Greek. 200 years before that it had been translated from Hebrew into Aramaic. Both times were to account for the prevalent languages spoken and read by the Jews. At the time Christ came, Greek was the standard "learned" language, used for most writing at the time in the area of Israel.

in reference to the temple in jerusalem: "The building was, according to the author Epiphanius, supervised by Aquila, who is otherwise known as a rabbi who translated the Bible into Aramaean and Greek" from the hebrew

"But as one who had become embittered in mind over how he had suffered dishonor, he was puffed up with vain jealousy, and having cursed Christianity and renounced his life [after death in Heaven], he became a proselyte and was circumcised as a Jew. And, being painfully ambitious, he dedicated himself to learning the language of the Hebrews and their writings. After he had first been thoroughly trained for it, he made his translation. He was moved not by the right motive, but by the desire to distort certain of the words occurring in the translation of the seventy-two."

www.livius.org...

We also have, of course, the authenticity. How well can these manuscripts be trusted? There are, as I said, over 5,600 ancient manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament. In comparison, the general source of Roman history, Tacitus' Annals of Imperial Rome, which is dated about 116 A.D., has only one remaining copy, yet is held as true.

we must remember that we have many books that are excluded from the modern christian new testament. during the time these books were written, judea or palastine was in a state of occupied turmoil. there were many sects of the jews that held messianic claims. (Simon bar Kochba , www.livius.org...) if say, 500 years from now there are 5000 NIV bibles left and only 500 KJV bibles, which is first and most accurate?

looking at history, I wouldn't blame constantine for declaring Christian messianic belief the "Good One". it was one of the only ones that didn't encourage the followers to revolt against the romans.

The Gospel of John also claims to be written by a disciple. That's important, because the followers of Christianity were referred to as apostles except the 12 who traveled with Christ. Recent archeological evidence has confirmed both the existence of the Pool of Bethesda and that it had 5 porticoes, as mentioned in John 5:2. It seems unimportant, but this incidental information leads to believing that the author knew of the pool, and had seen it. Since the Pool of Bethesda was destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., it would lead one to believe the book must have been written before.

OK. given that the person who wrote the gospel of john was around before jerusalem was destroyed in 70. does that mean I can say something about the twin towers in some document I write and expect people 2000 years from now to believe what I say to be true? yeah they may know about the world trade center and know that there were a sect of giant purple people eater followers around the time. but hey, they knew about the twin towers! remember, I am not disputing that Jesus existited, but whether or not he is the messiah and or God. and as far as the history of rome, i'm sure the document that you mentioned is used as the ONLY source. scholars typically recognize that material is often written with some sort of theocological(sp?) or political sway added. that's why we look for multiple sources when writing articles and such. what keeps coming about is that many christians beleive the bible verbatium. they don't try to understand the political climate that existed during christianity's birth all the way to it's being declared the official roman religion. they don't understand that the people who wrote the books were CHRISTIANS! not scholars who were objective in their writings.

this thread name itself doesnt even claim any significance. there is absolutely no power in christianity but power in the god they believe in. people need to learn how to accuse the right way.

church= the people
god= where the real power actually dwells

you can have a life of never attending one church, but this doesnt mean that you cant get through heavens gates. it all boils down to your relationship with the devine of course.

-tombomb

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
this thread name itself doesnt even claim any significance. there is absolutely no power in christianity but power in the god they believe in. people need to learn how to accuse the right way.

And you have to read the post instead of replying to the subject It was a satiracle subject, read the first post.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
this thread name itself doesnt even claim any significance. there is absolutely no power in christianity but power in the god they believe in. people need to learn how to accuse the right way.

church= the people
god= where the real power actually dwells

you can have a life of never attending one church, but this doesnt mean that you cant get through heavens gates. it all boils down to your relationship with the devine of course.

-tombomb

heyyyy. now we're getting somewhere. we can discuss a book or a culture, or HIStory all day. are you really going to prove that you know the right one? but did God give us something other than this book or this church? do faithful people, other than "my god is named this" or "my religion is the best" or "you muosta weara yor moostachia thisawey", really not beleive in the same stuff? don't people really know how to act? love your neighbor, don't want none don't start none, manners, humbleness, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, don't smack the waiter, don't grope women who are opposed to it , etc..etc.





[edit on 7-9-2005 by passengername]

or they had some sort of godly experience and thus became religious.

I had one of these "experiences". I did not become "religious". However, I did always have a strong feeling about GOD, and thus was woken up more to my spiritual side which had just about vanished as my plight in life worsened.

I think one of the keys is one's relationship and understanding of everything that goes on around us. The interrealtion between man, nature, and the planet. In fact, the universe.

One thing I know for sure is that it saved me from total destruction. I really didn't know where I was headed before the event took place. GOD does it in various ways. A way that each individual would understand.

Just remember this. Despite what one sees as the falling apart of this place there IS a place we all head after the end of our physical existence. That much I AM certain of.

One must SINCERELY ask for GOD's help. He will deliver. The time and place unknown till it happens. Some will not know that he has delivered. Some will be confronted(like I was) head on. Why was I picked? I dunno, except I had always felt we were all linked as is everything in this universe.

When we see this blue orb from 200 miles away there are no visible boundaries. The boundaries that we as man have drawn up. This is the planet earth. Third planet from our sun.

Christ said, "I am the light". All his teachings are very good. However, this one statement of his carries more weight with me than anything else he said. It is of great signifigance. We are all part of the light. It is what holds this illusion together.

Originally posted by junglejake
Hehe you give yourself far too much credit

I enjoy these conversations with you because they get me to go deeper into my faith and beliefs. Now how could darkness its self do that?

Thanks for the informative post

For an explanation on Darkness watch:My True Hollywood Stories

Originally posted by saint4God
I highly recommend it. I cannot say how it pertains to what we're talking about without giving the movie away.

Ill have to borrow it from him sometime.

Originally posted by saint4God
Is the result of an attempted suicide a punishment though or an attempt to help? What I thought was most astounding is when my spouse had attempted, the psychologist said "go home, live your life". Though grateful, wondered if 'society' really cared. Didn't look like it to me.

Who am I to tell your spouse if it is better to kill herself(correct?) or not? If she has a problem of course we should care, but if she doesnt I feel its not my business. If anyone I knew (closely) committed suicide, I would miss them terribly, but I would respect that it is there choice to make.

Originally posted by saint4God
What is a last resort?

When you dont care anymore about the things I mentioned earilier.

Originally posted by saint4God
Hello darkness, it's me again. Remember last time? My you're awfully subtle these days, are you feeling well?

Again, you'll have to view My True Hollywood Stories.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by saint4God
Is the result of an attempted suicide a punishment though or an attempt to help? What I thought was most astounding is when my spouse had attempted, the psychologist said "go home, live your life". Though grateful, wondered if 'society' really cared. Didn't look like it to me.

Who am I to tell your spouse if it is better to kill herself(correct?) or not? If she has a problem of course we should care, but if she doesnt I feel its not my business. If anyone I knew (closely) committed suicide, I would miss them terribly, but I would respect that it is there choice to make.

While I agree with you that a lost loved one would be missed terribly, how is it their choice to make? What are humans that we have any right to choose what to do with the life God has given us?

Originally posted by equilibrium
What are humans that we have any right to choose what to do with the life God has given us?

If god has given it to you, then it's yours to do with as you choose. If it isn't yours to do with as you choose, then it isn't yours.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Ill have to borrow it from him sometime.

Yes indeed! Unless historical legend isn't your thing. Still a great story though.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Who am I to tell your spouse if it is better to kill herself(correct?) or not?

A compassionate human being to say not to. My spouse is also grateful to be alive after that day.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
If she has a problem of course we should care, but if she doesnt I feel its not my business. If anyone I knew (closely) committed suicide, I would miss them terribly, but I would respect that it is there choice to make.

I understand where you're coming from, but unless you are certain something better awaits on the other side (faith), I don't know how you can feel this way.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
When you dont care anymore about the things I mentioned earilier.

I can't see "not caring" at a single point in time as being a last resort. In that case, all people who have a momentary lapse of depression should off themselves? Does that feel right to you?

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Again, you'll have to view My True Hollywood Stories.

Oh a difference 'darkness'. Nice to meet you Dave.

[edit on 9-9-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Yes indeed! Unless historical legend isn't your thing. Still a great story though.

I thought the preview made it look like Gladiator, one of my favourite movies. Have you seen it?

Originally posted by saint4God
A compassionate human being to say not to. My spouse is also grateful to be alive after that day.

Maybe I should rephrase what I said. I would try to talk them out it of verbally, but I wouldnt physically stop them. Shouldn't it be your right to end your own life? I feel that we should be allowed to do anything as long it doesn't affect someone in a way they dont want to be affected.

Originally posted by saint4God
I understand where you're coming from, but unless you are certain something better awaits on the other side (faith), I don't know how you can feel this way.

With an open-mind admitting, I DONT KNOW what happens.

Originally posted by saint4God
I can't see "not caring" at a single point in time as being a last resort. In that case, all people who have a momentary lapse of depression should off themselves? Does that feel right to you?

Wow, lets back up. I dont recall saying anyone whos depressed should kill themselves.

Originally posted by saint4God
Oh a difference 'darkness'. Nice to meet you Dave.

Do you watch Chapelle show?