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The Absolute Power of Christianity!

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posted on May, 26 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Shonet1430
This is about wisdom though and is being personified as a woman.


Exactly & absolutely.


Originally posted by Shonet1430
Of course!!! It because of our "binah"...intuition, intelligence, understanding which is also the root of "build" as women were built and not formed so we're closer to G-d's ideal!! Practice makes perfect!!!!!!


LOL
. Refreshing perspective.


Originally posted by Shonet1430
One of the seven female prophets!!!!


Perhaps an area I could devote more study.


Originally posted by Shonet1430
The Hebrew uses cling in lieu of united which I think fits much better. I like this verse because it shows that human males are to be different than the other males as he wants to be with his wife; also it shows that the ideal in the garden was monogamy.

Proverbs 31:10 "What a rare find is a capable wife! Her worth is far beyond that of rubies."


Much appreciated Shonet.
I neglated to include that one. I'm intereted in more of what you have to say too.




posted on May, 26 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by riley
I thought the bible was the word of god..?


Yeah, and?


Originally posted by riley
Are you saying this section can be dismissed?


Not at all! Are you saying what I've presented can be dismissed?


Originally posted by riley
Marriage vows used to require the woman to say 'obey' and I think the man was meant to say cherish or protect [I can't remember which].. why was not the man required to obey?


I do not know. My speciality is with God and His word, not cultural decisions.


Originally posted by riley
Your comparison is flawed. The attitudes towards women were layed out in the OT.. not by the NT.


I beg to differ per your posts. You yourself have quoted the New Testament in 2 places and are claiming Paul's letters to individual churches are the law of all mankind eternally.


Originally posted by riley
Not equally punnished.. Eve was additionally punnished with the pain of childbirth and menstration for tempting Adam. I know we have discussed this before and you said she was actually 'blessed' but the bible clearly states otherwise.


They were both punished. Separately but equally. Personally, I think having a child is a blessing. One that a man could never know. Yes it's painful, but anything worth having is a struggle. Sorry if you still feel you got the short end of the stick, I don't know if there's anything I can say or do to change that.


Originally posted by riley
That is your morality- not reflective of everything in the bible [you'd be one conflicted person if it was] as you obviously do not agree with Paul..


Oh I agree that Paul made the best possible decision in his position. It's really important to understand what exactly was going on in those churches at that time. Paul has a lot of really great things to say and even find him liberating in the rights of women (he said they didn't have to get married, which at the time was the most important and expected thing in their lives according to their environment). You're right, I would be remiss to dismiss Paul.


Originally posted by riley
he obviously thought women should be seen and not heared.


Hehe, that's how he solved his problems it seems, yes. Jesus had a much more open approach in listening and accepting women as God's creation.


Originally posted by riley
Now many throughout history have interprited this same quote in the negative- this is when the bible is used as a weapon to dominate.


I'm not responsible for those who claim to be "Christian" and do not wish to hear any further. My responsibility extends to myself and helping those wishing to be true Christians according to God.


Originally posted by riley
My point is you can find quotes that may support women in the bible.. but having fully read it from a woman's perspective.. the majority of quotes concerning women are negative and promote oppression.. as for wisdom being reffered to as a 'she'.. it's probably the same thing as calling a ship or tornado 'she'- usage of the term may've been just a reflection of the language used at the time [providing it was correctly translated] rather than paying homage to womankind.


Wisdom is not an object. It is not driven nor is it a disasterous weather pattern. It is sought by those who desire for truth. There's no mistake on the translation, see where it talks about a wife and other female traits in Proverbs.


Originally posted by riley

Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Need more? I got more.

That does not negate the mysoginist quotes.. I can find more as well- wanna be here all day and go tit for tat with bible contradictions?



I've already addressed yours. Would you care to address mine?

[edit on 26-5-2005 by saint4God]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by riley

I guess what the bible says depends on which parts you want to pay attention to or ignore:


Not really if one does the research behind the verses.


1 Corinthians 11
3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.


A woman's hair was the equivalent to nudity.


7 A man ought not to cover his head,


Doing away with the Jewishness.


since he is the image and glory of God;


So the Torah lies?

"And G-d said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. They shall rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the cattle, the whole earth, and all the creeping things that creep on earth.' And G-d created man in His image, in the image of G-d he created him; Male and Female He created them. G-d blessed them...." JPS

"And G-d said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So G-d created man in his own image, in the image of G-d created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And G-d blessed them..." KJV

"Then G-d said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27 So G-d created man in his own image, in the image of G-d he created him; male and female he created them. 28 And G-d blessed them..." RSV

I could go on and on with the different translations.


but the woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.


Woman was a part of man's fulfillment.


Seems women are less 'holier' than men in the eyes of god.


This can't be the farthest thing from the truth. If G-d made both man and woman in his image, how could that be true? G-d has male and female qualities so he thinks of himself as lesser in one half? That's absurd. I'll even go one step further here. When G-d made the male and female stated above, he literally made a dual gendered human that he separated into male and female in chapter 2. So again, both male and female were formed in chapter one so technically one didn't come before the other. If women weren't holy in the eyes of G-d, why did he allow them to lead people? Be prophets? Be a liberator of the Jews? Why did G-d take away the Rosh Chodesh from the men and give it to the women? I'll answer that for you since you probably don't know what it is. Because women didn't participate in the worshipping of the golden calf.


I don't know.. maybe the fact that women used to still have to say "love , honour and obey" only last century.. Saint4god.. how can you say that marriage is suppose to be 'equal' when men didn't even have to say this?


Correction....Christian women maybe and then some who didn't have a religion.


..the logic behind this was Eve being born for Adam [as in possession] ..same idea behind rape being still legal in marriage last century.. thats not 2000 years ago.


Again, Eve wasn't born. And Adam's name means clay, earth and Eve means life. So does that mean men are dirt and women give life?


1 Timothy 2
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.


It's sad how these Jewish men turned.


Can't see the misogynry yet?


From bitter NT writers.


12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.


Another bitter statement as Jewish women are sought for counsel on the Torah. Some marriage contracts specified that women had to teach her husband the Torah as women were seen as closer to G-d.


13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.


Wrong, Adam had both genders and he was formed. Then G-d built Eve from Adam.


14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.


Right because Adam first deceived the woman. Did you forget that part?


15 But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


I'm just going to LMAO at this one.


nope.. that doesn't sound like a single unit.. sounds like a master/servant 'relationship' to me.. where is this equal 'unity' based on mutual respect?


Because you obviously have no knowledge of the Hebrew. Or maybe you want it to be that way. Either way it goes, Eve means life, Adam means earth. Life is higher on the totem pole than earth. Eve's name contains two Hebrew letters in YHWH while Adam has none. The name to live and to be which are the roots of the names of Eve and G-d share the same root. Eve was created in Eden while man was not. He was merely transplanted. And if you want to believe in "original sin," then man brought it, not woman. Adam lied to Eve and he sinned in knowledge. Hers was through ignorance and the reliance on Adam's words. Hence the reason you see the generational curses being that of the fathers and the fathers' fathers.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Some background since we're only pulling out a small section.


I hate when this happens!


The laws from 1776 - 1950-ish didn't cover the Bible, nor do they sufficently do so today!


True but interestingly enough, the Noahide Laws were accepted by the US government that G-d said all of humanity was responsible for!



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Eve was created in Eden while man was not. He was merely transplanted


How does this jive with what you said about them being created at the same time?



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by riley
I thought the bible was the word of god..?


Yeah, and?

Ah.. so you do think women should cover or shave their heads. Okay then.

Isn't dismissing/rebelling against that rebelling against god's wishes?



Originally posted by riley
Are you saying this section can be dismissed?

Not at all! Are you saying what I've presented can be dismissed?

Whats happens when one contradicts the other? Do you just pick and choose which is convenient at the time? eg. I follow 'judge not lest ye be judged' [hey it's wise advice].. but there is someone else here that judges others repetitively with the 'tell the tree by the fruit' loophole.. who decides? That person is still a 'christian' because he's technically following the bible.



Originally posted by riley
Marriage vows used to require the woman to say 'obey' and I think the man was meant to say cherish or protect [I can't remember which].. why was not the man required to obey?


I do not know. My speciality is with God and His word, not cultural decisions.

I was referring to the Catholic church.. it's meant to follow 'his' word [which is was doing with those vows] and has had a huge influence on western culture and attitudes.



Originally posted by riley
Your comparison is flawed. The attitudes towards women were layed out in the OT.. not by the NT.


I beg to differ per your posts. You yourself have quoted the New Testament in 2 places and are claiming Paul's letters to individual churches are the law of all mankind eternally.

OT set the trend.. [adam and eve] It continued from there. The OT is very sexist and is the foundation of the New.. when Jesus' was born it was just after God's midlife crises and he was starting to mellow out a bit.


They were both punished.

here we go again..


Separately but equally. Personally, I think having a child is a blessing. One that a man could never know.

Supposedly.. Eve could have had the blessing of pain free childbirth without menstrating before they were punnished.. the pain and 'the curse' [
they were so ignorant in those days] were her added punnishments.. Adam's were.. working.. thing is women are not biologically exempt from working [like men are from painful procreating] so it's not really a 'seperate' and exclusive punnishment.


Oh I agree that Paul made the best possible decision in his position. It's really important to understand what exactly was going on in those churches at that time. Paul has a lot of really great things to say and even find him liberating in the rights of women (he said they didn't have to get married, which at the time was the most important and expected thing in their lives according to their environment). You're right, I would be remiss to dismiss Paul.

Even though he banned them from teaching women, told them they should be servants etc. etc. My perception of you is changing.. can't you see how this is discriminatory?




Originally posted by riley
he obviously thought women should be seen and not heared.


Hehe, that's how he solved his problems it seems, yes.

Solved problems?! He imposed them.. it's probably the reason 'obey' was included in vows for so long.


Jesus had a much more open approach in listening and accepting women as God's creation.

As an apostle he is in fact speaking on Jesus' behalf so the apostles should by right be consitant in Jesus' message [which they aren't] .. Jesus himself did not directly feature in the bible [way past his time].


I'm not responsible for those who claim to be "Christian". My responsibility extends to me and helping those wishing to be true Christians according to God.

He is a vengeful god.
He is a loving god. Which god?



Originally posted by riley

Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Need more? I got more.

That does not negate the mysoginist quotes.. I can find more as well- wanna be here all day and go tit for tat with bible contradictions?



I've already addressed yours. Would you care to address mine?


Galatians 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Need more? I got more.

Indeed it is very inclusive and egalitarian.. problem is there is always another proverb that can void it in favour of something hostile.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Riley, when you are dicussing the writings of Paul, you have to take into account the culture of the day in which he was preaching. We are talking about a patriarchial society. God was basically making the husband ,as head of the household, responsible and accountable for whatever his family did. Men decided since they were responsible and accountable that they had to control their families. It sounds very misogynistic. And it is. I don't believe that's how God meant for it to be though.

If Paul actually was a misogynist, he would not have told the husbands to love their wives as they do their ownselves (unselfishly). Any man who truly loves his wife as Christ loves the church, would have no trouble from his wife. She would probably be shocked speechless.

Oh, by the way, please tell me that you don't believe that stay at home moms don't work.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Shonet1430


14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.


Right because Adam first deceived the woman. Did you forget that part?

On the contrary.. I was never actually taught that part.



nope.. that doesn't sound like a single unit.. sounds like a master/servant 'relationship' to me.. where is this equal 'unity' based on mutual respect?


Because you obviously have no knowledge of the Hebrew. Or maybe you want it to be that way.


I thought about studying french but I'll let you know.. would that make me anti semetic too?
I'm a non hebrew atheist ex catholic who was raised on the king james bible who is talking about the negative influence christianity/catholisism has had on western culture.. I even used quotes from the KJ bible to back up my points as that is the book which is relevent to the religion I'm talking about.. how is the torah relevent to a coversation about what sexism the bible has promoted?
In future could you please actually read my posts properly? Thankyou.

[edit on 26-5-2005 by riley]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by darkelf
Riley, when you are dicussing the writings of Paul, you have to take into account the culture of the day in which he was preaching. We are talking about a patriarchial society. God was basically making the husband ,as head of the household, responsible and accountable for whatever his family did. Men decided since they were responsible and accountable that they had to control their families. It sounds very misogynistic. And it is. I don't believe that's how God meant for it to be though.

I completely agree.. my point is that that patriachal sexist society has influenced society ever since.. it may not be so obvious today and women are considered equal for the most part.. but my original point [few pages back now] was that because religion has traditionally indulged males- [eg concubines [1st one was Eve]] we still have a culture where males are indulged in other ways without moral judgement ['boys will be boys']. There is demand for porn, strip clubs and prostitutes.. some women supply the demand.. but it is those women who are morally blamed for the sex industry [for instance] not their male customers.


If Paul actually was a misogynist, he would not have told the husbands to love their wives as they do their ownselves (unselfishly).

If he wasn't he would not have said they should be silent and submissive. His ideas seem very inconsistent.


Oh, by the way, please tell me that you don't believe that stay at home moms don't work.

Why would I say that?



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by riley
Ah.. so you do think women should cover or shave their heads.


No.


Originally posted by riley
Okay then.

Isn't dismissing/rebelling against that rebelling against god's wishes?


I'm not concerned about Paul's favor. I was not in the Corinthian church he was addressing at the time these problems were occuring. I'm concerned about God's favor.


Originally posted by riley
Whats happens when one contradicts the other? Do you just pick and choose which is convenient at the time?


Nope. That means study more, because there's a lot of context that needs to be understood. After doing that, pray about it. God will help you see how and why these things develop.


Originally posted by riley
eg. I follow 'judge not lest ye be judged' [hey it's wise advice].. but there is someone else here that judges others repetitively with the 'tell the tree by the fruit' loophole.. who decides? That person is still a 'christian' because he's technically following the bible.


'Tell the tree by the fruit' is an indicator or advisory. This is not to be a permission slip to judge. Jesus clarifies exstensively in the gospels.


Originally posted by riley
I was referring to the Catholic church.. it's meant to follow 'his' word [which is was doing with those vows] and has had a huge influence on western culture and attitudes.


*shrugs* I don't have the background to talk about Catholic doctrine. I don't care about past influences, attitudes and culture. What matters is here and now.


Originally posted by riley
OT set the trend.. [adam and eve] It continued from there. The OT is very sexist and is the foundation of the New.. when Jesus' was born it was just after God's midlife crises and he was starting to mellow out a bit.

here we go again..


Separately but equally. Personally, I think having a child is a blessing. One that a man could never know.

Supposedly.. Eve could have had the blessing of pain free childbirth without menstrating before they were punnished.. the pain and 'the curse' [
they were so ignorant in those days] were her added punnishments.. Adam's were.. working.. thing is women are not biologically exempt from working [like men are from painful procreating] so it's not really a 'seperate' and exclusive punnishment.


Circular argument. You see one thing, I see another.


Originally posted by riley
Even though he banned them from teaching women, told them they should be servants etc. etc. My perception of you is changing.. can't you see how this is discriminatory?


I think your read on this is very slanted. Seek and you'll find. If you're looking for a fight, I'm sure you could find it in a lot of verses. If you're angry, you'll find things to be angry about. As you present it, I'd say yes, but as I read it I say no. They weren't banned from teaching women or becoming servants. Submissiveness is a method that can keep the peace that helps truth to be discovered as well as valuing another person more than yourself. Interesting thing happens when one decides to 'try it their way' or 'listen' when someone is upset. They start to hear their own voice, realize they make a mistake, and seek forgiveness. Who's the intelligent one then?


Originally posted by riley
Solved problems?! He imposed them.. it's probably the reason 'obey' was included in vows for so long.


Who knows the number of problems he prevented versus how many he caused? We'd have to live all throughout history to know.


Originally posted by riley
As an apostle he is in fact speaking on Jesus' behalf so the apostles should by right be consitant in Jesus' message [which they aren't] .. Jesus himself did not directly feature in the bible [way past his time].


Where are they inconsistant? How do you know Jesus wasn't featured? Define 'way past his time'. How many years and how did you arrive at this conclusion?


Originally posted by riley
He is a vengeful god.
He is a loving god. Which god?


Parents understand this. "This is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you". Same parent who punishes is the one who loves. In fact, said parent punishes because s/he loves.


Originally posted by riley
Indeed it is very inclusive and egalitarian.. problem is there is always another proverb that can void it in favour of something hostile.


Things misunderstood can be hostile. God is still there as the ultimate resource. If we don't understand stuff, we can ask Him. I have to do it a lot.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 26-5-2005 by saint4God]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Just a couple words here



Originally posted by Shonet1430
I don't know.. maybe the fact that women used to still have to say "love , honour and obey" only last century.. Saint4god.. how can you say that marriage is suppose to be 'equal' when men didn't even have to say this?


My wife said this vow and she is hardly abused. Women were considered property throughout most of the world till the last hundred years or so, and are STILL bought and sold in some parts. From what I understand it is no longer part of the vows so I dont really see your point. Laws change.




Right because Adam first deceived the woman. Did you forget that part?


Can you show me this part? What passage in the Bible says this?

[edit on 26-5-2005 by Amuk]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Maybe you should get the view of those poor christian women who were forced to say that vow.
Try and pick a fight with them instead.

saint,
You are to be commended with not getting sucked into a fruitless argument by someone who is constantly taking verses out of context.

Well done.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by riley
I thought the bible was the word of god..? Are you saying this section can be dismissed?


The original quote was misleading as you stopped at verse 9 and then said that women appeared less holy in the eyes of G-d. Let's recap.

"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake."

Ok then you go on to the next three verses.

"Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God."

So if they are not independent of one another and woman came from man but man now comes from woman, both seem to be equal. I'd probably have to give this one to women since there have been far more men who came from women!!! Either way, there isn't any room for either to be one up on each other.


"Marriage vows used to require the woman to say 'obey' and I think the man was meant to say cherish or protect [I can't remember which].. why was not the man required to obey?


I thank G-d that's not a requirement for me! For me religiously speaking, sex is what my husband must obey!!!!



Yeah right. Try being a woman before feminism.. the church was one of it's main foes.


I think a large part of that was that the feminine was suppressed by the church. The NT is filled with women who are either virgins, widows, or whores.


Your comparison is flawed. The attitudes towards women were layed out in the OT.. not by the NT.


Indeed. Father and Mother had to be respected. Not one before the other as shown in Ex. 20.12 and Lev. 19.3 (word reversal). Women had the right to buy, sell, own property, make contracts, etc (Prov. 31.10-31). Marital sex is her right and the man's obligation. Men can't abuse their wives. Women have the right to be consulted about the marriage. Rape even within marriage is still just that. She is the wife, the mother, and the keeper of the household. She has the spiritual influence over her family. Women are exempt from the positive commandments that place time constraints upon them, such as love your neighbor.


Not equally punnished.. Eve was additionally punnished with the pain of childbirth and menstration for tempting Adam. I know we have discussed this before and you said she was actually 'blessed' but the bible clearly states otherwise.


I want to know where it says menstruation. She was punished with pains during child birth and sexual urges. IMO Adam was punished more severely as birth pains come one time. Sexual urges...no punishment. Adam was punished with working unproductive soil for the rest of his days. His is a much longer punishment.


That is your morality- not reflective of everything in the bible [you'd be one conflicted person if it was] as you obviously do not agree with Paul.. he obviously thought women should be seen and not heared. Now many throughout history have interprited this same quote in the negative- this is when the bible is used as a weapon to dominate.


The problem with the women that Paul talked about was that they were gossipy. This was strictly forbidden by the Jews and I suppose you can't always take the Judaism out of a Jew.


My point is you can find quotes that may support women in the bible.. but having fully read it from a woman's perspective.. the majority of quotes concerning women are negative and promote oppression..


It's sad that you feel that way.


as for wisdom being reffered to as a 'she'.. it's probably the same thing as calling a ship or tornado 'she'- usage of the term may've been just a reflection of the language used at the time [providing it was correctly translated] rather than paying homage to womankind.


I don't read from translation, thanks. Wisdom is personified as a she.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Maybe you should get the view of those poor christian women who were forced to say that vow.
Try and pick a fight with them instead.


Exactly.....LOL

I have mentioned this vow to my wife many times usually with me standing in the middle of the yard with her throwing my clothes at me.


If there was much power in that OBEY part I havent seen it.....LOL



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by riley
So do you think this quote compliments women?


Absolutely. But that would be because I know the meaning behind it. The entire chapter is about a woman of strength who is wise, virtuous, energetic, etc.


First of all 'rare' suggests the majority of women are not 'capable' [whatever that means].. and her 'worth' is weighed against currency.. it's actually quite derogitory.


In your opinion. The particular quote is actually about the value of the woman and not rarity. The Hebrew words "eshet hayil" translate to woman of valor though strength is a better translation. Hayil is typically used for different types of strength including military, personal, social, physical, ethical, mental, economical, spiritual, etc. But this passage says that underneath everything like her virtues and talents, she is strong in character. In the next verse, "Her husband puts his confidence in her, and lacks no good thing." Why would he do that if she weren't strong?

Prov. 18.22 He who finds a wife has found happiness and has won the favor of the L-rd.

Prov. 19.14 Property and riches are bequeathed by fathers, but an efficient wife comes from the L-rd.

Marriage is a blessing as shown in 18.22. And efficient is more along the lines of insightful or intelligent. So verse 19.14 shows that the efficient wife is also a blessing. Therefore she is rare, precious, and valuable.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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The christian model does have the man as the head of the family.

For the non-believer this is impossible to see as anything other then looking down.
For the christian, this setup is ok and works great when the marriage is inside of Christ. If both put God first, then this can't do anything except work perfectly.

Now if that is a problem for some, then it is just that. A problem for THEM. A man who does cherish his wife is never going to treat her in a manner less that a whole person.

[edit on 26-5-2005 by jake1997]



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
saint,
You are to be commended with not getting sucked into a fruitless argument by someone who is constantly taking verses out of context.

Well done.


Thanks! I've had to do a lot of 'self-checking' to make sure I'm in line. It's healthy and challenging at the same time.



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
They were both punished. Separately but equally.


And along with the serpent too!!! Don't forget him!


Personally, I think having a child is a blessing. One that a man could never know. Yes it's painful, but anything worth having is a struggle. Sorry if you still feel you got the short end of the stick, I don't know if there's anything I can say or do to change that.


I have four and I know that the birth pains are nothing! I would take that anyday over the whole working unproductive soil anyday!


Wisdom is not an object. It is not driven nor is it a disasterous weather pattern. It is sought by those who desire for truth. There's no mistake on the translation, see where it talks about a wife and other female traits in Proverbs.


Yes! And like the woman in Proverbs 7 who is to be shunned, wisdom is to be embraced once found!



posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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There is power in Christianity. I have not seen or heard of any other religion that directs prophecy as there proof. How can you despute prophecy ?

All the other Gods who have come and failed their people century after century by being false prophets have been proven time and time again that there God is Dead, They did not have the answers for eternal salvation
which is the meaning of life. We are are all human and will only live part of our life on earth. One day everyman will stand in front of God and will have to answer to HIM ( The Trinity / God / Jesus / Holy Spirit ). This was also a prophecy declared by God himself. Just like he prophesized about a man named Jesus coming to save the world.

It wouldn't matter if Christ himself came down again right now and revealed himself as Jesus, Gods own Son and he showed his power by healing peoples lives. What happend the first time HE did this. We the people crucfied HIM becuse we didn't want to bow down to another !

The same thing would happen today. God is not going to make it that easy ever again. There is no more Jesus in flesh to spread his gospel. However HE said HE would leave us with the power of the Holy Spirit till one day when HE returns to pick up HIS chosen ones ( The Believers )

God Himself said that HE was going to send a great flood to cover the entire earth and He did and the people didn't beleive HIM.

God Himslef said that he was going to send the Savior to cover our sins so that we would not have to slaughter anymore animals in HIS name. And HE did !

There are so many more prophecies in the Bible but we have to read. This is the difference between Christianity and any other dead religion in the world.

All of the other Gods were and still are False Prophets. We are still waiting for one prophecy to be fulfilled that isn't ( SELF FULFILLED PROPHECY ) EXAMPLE: Muhhomud, Joseph Smith, Budda, etc...........

Back to the Ten Commandments being on display- Yes the non beleivers fear our GOD ! They want to wipe out any trace of GOD that they can. Why don't they abolish other religions. Why is there such an attack upon Christianity ? Becuse it's the Truth and the ONLY way to GOD. There is NO POWER in other religions.

Well, hopefully someone reading this will open there heart to this enough to read the bible for himself to find the truth. This is to say that there is a christian conspiracy against GOD and HIS people.

The only way God might reveal himself to you is by searching for the truth yourself. Reading HIS word will reveal the true nature of God !

Well not to beat a dead horse. We as christians can only do so much and the rest of it is up to the Holy Spirit to convict ones own spirit.

Hang In There ! We won't be here much longer !

Hope to see you all on the other side someday !




posted on May, 26 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
How does this jive with what you said about them being created at the same time?


Let me clarify.

"An G-d created man in His image, in the image of G-d He created him; male and female He created them." 1.27

So this is where the one person, "man" was made.

"The Lord G-d planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and placed there the man whom He had formed." 2.8

Ok so "Adam" was moved to Eden.

"So the Lord G-d cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while he slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord G-d fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman; and He brought her to the man." 2.21-22

Here "Eve" emerges from Adam and thus we have two.





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