When I say forcing Christianity upon me, it has nothing to do with actually buying into its nonsense. I am refering to forcing their superstitions and morals onto my daily life via legislating god. I am talking about Christians trying to prevent me from doing things that are my right because their book says its wrong. I can hardly see how this proves Christianity to be the truth or absolute power. It is neither, simply one religon amongst many clamoring acceptance.

It is also extreme Christians trying to force their beliefs and superstition down my throat in the context that they are somehow real. Anything forced down my throat will get vomited up VERY quickly. My body and soul reject anything it deems unatural, unpure, or unhealthy, and for me, Christianity encompasses all of the above.

It is when Christians attempt to tell me who I am allowed to love, how, what I can and cannot do with my body, what things I can or cannot enjoy, read, believe, or feel, that i respond in kind with virulent counter force, and push the unclean thing away from me and attack it. I dont want America Christianized anymore than I want it Islamcised or "Buddafied". And I shall, as I always have done, battle the forces of crazy right wing Christians with the same virulence I battle commies, Nazis, left wing weenies, ect.

Originally posted by ufo_believer
They never converted me!!!! I'm indifferent

Nobody can convert you ufo_believer. If you want to be converted, then you go to God. He does the converting, we're just asking you to talk to him, that's all.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf,
I kind of agree with you but also disagree and here is why.
For the past few decades, another religion has governed our lives. One that denies all other religions, one that denies all of our rights and freedoms. One that condemns anyone that has a belief system that is not thiers.
This religion is fully backed by the US goverment, fully back by the US court system etc.
Do you know what this religion is?..... the religion of Atheism.

I do not want anyone's religion shoved down my throat weather it be Catholism or Hinduism. In the US today, a person that is a practising catholic (or any other religion) is a second class citizen. They are not afford the same rights as an atheist.

Our country was born on the belief of religious freedom. Our laws are biblically based, our monetary system is full of religious references. Even our national anthem and Pledge of Allegiance are religious.

For decades now, the aethiest has had their way in how our country handles religion. So far, there can be any number of various clubs in our schools, but if there is even a hint of catholism, it is banned. Prayers before a game in school is banned, moments of silence is banned in school. and on and on and on.

I could easily post hundreds of ways that aethism has over run our lives and changed how we think / act as a people and as a society. Our moral values have become extinct. Our tolerance of others have become anemic.

One of the most telling blows to how aethiesm has harmed our society, look at the crime statistics nation-wide both before and then after Madalyn Murray O' Hair and Jon Garth Murray won thier court battles back in 1963. You will find that since prayer / moment of silence were banned, the crime rates have taken a much higher rate of increase that is not explained by population growth etc.

The re-introduction of religion of whatever flavour you believe in back into our society I welcome hwoleheartedly and pray that it will continue to grow and hopefully reverse the effect that aethiesm has caused our country.
Aethism is a religion, it is the belief that there is no God (by whatever name). That in of itself is a religion.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
I could easily post hundreds of ways that aethism has over run our lives and changed how we think / act as a people and as a society. Our moral values have become extinct.

This is ludicrous.. an atheist agenda? Only about 1% of the population are atheists.. this includes myself.. are you questioning my morality?
The reason religion is not accepted in public schools is because there are MANY faiths that think their's is the 'one and only god'.. the non bias standpoint is to prevent cultural division/bullying among children [eg. paganism vs judeo christian] and teach them FACTS rather than having to choose between numerous mythologies.
Do you think it would be acceptable to teach pagen/buddhist/hindu children christianity but not vice verser? If your constitution promotes freedom of religion it has to be from it as well as the major faiths conflict with eachother.. it's why government has to be seen as impartial.
btw. atheism is not a religion.. by definition religion requires a deity.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by riley]

This is ludicrous.. an atheist agenda? Only about 1% of the population are atheists.. this includes myself.. are you questioning my morality? The reason religion is not accepted in public schools is because there are MANY faiths that think their's is the 'one and only god'.. the non bias standpoint is to prevent cultural division/bullying among children and teach them FACTS rather than having to choose between numerous mythologies. Let me guess.. you think it would be acceptable to teach pagen/buddhist/hindu children christianity but not vice verser?

Yes, there has been an aethist agenda to use your own words.
This country has for quite a few years have allowed the views of the minority to rule. If one person is against something, the laws MUST be changed in order not to violate that one person's rights.
As you stated, Aethists only compose 1% of the US population. then why do there beleifs govern the entire nation?

The courts back in the 60's attempted to allow the beliefs of the aethists to be incorporated in our schools. The courts, took out the moment of prayer and replaced it with a moment of silence (see my previous post). This "moment of silence" was again considered a promotion of religion by Madalyn Murray O' Hair and this law was struck down.

As I stated in my earlier post, I DO not promote any religion, I do support the rights of all to pratice whatever thier religion. A moment of silence, allowed this even those who believe there is no higher being.

Do I question morality? No as I do not know you and have nothing to base anything on. I do question the morality of the US people (yes, I am one myself). There has been a very significant drop in american morals since the 60's and as stated earlier, you can plot this drop at / around 1963 once the american court system allowed the beliefs of the minority to over-rule the beliefs of the majority. By the american goverment denying it's citizens the right to believe in a higher power or not is a crime.
even attempts to satisfy Madalyn Murray O' Hair, by taking out the payer in schools / assemblies, etc and replacing it with a moment of silence so that students could reflect on their own beliefs (in a higher power or not), was again brought down by Madalyn Murray O' Hair as it was seen by her as again a way tp promote religion.

When I went to school, yes there was discussions and lesson plans that at least introduced students to various religions. This was done to promote acceptance of the ways of other people in and around the world. Yes, there was also discussions on aetheism. Would I support this if it was re-introducced, yes. I am for anything that will cause a student or anyone else to start to think for themselves. Make their own decisions. At this point in time, we as a nation are not taught to think anything other than what the goverment wants us to. Books and beliefs that do promote thought are currently banned in schools. Books that we grew up with, had to book reports on etc are not even to be found in most libraries (school or public).

I am sorry that you think that I was attacking your belief. That is not what I was posting.

What I posted, was that the denial of religion that the goverment, courts schools etc, promote has hurt this country. Unfortunately, Madalyn Murray O' Hair championed this cause and thus the religion of aethiesim is now the ruling religion in the US and again is directly the cause of the of the decline in american morality.
Religions (in most cases) teaches us basic morals. That is the basis of most religions. Without religion, without the belief system, the american pareents have an extremely difficult time in instilling morality in their childern especially when you consider the restraints that have been put on the parents.

Originally posted by toolmaker

Monkeyboy is dead on.

Christianity is evolving into a Political force. Faith in God is being manipulated into votes at the polling booth, and people are confusing salvation and God with political power and conservatism. they have become the Sheep, ready for shearing.

Ironic, that the mad rush toward salvation may end up damning them in the end.

Toolmaker-I being a Christian say that your synopsis of the situation is dead on. Many now tout their so called "Christianity" exactly the opposite way Jesus intended. It is a shame, and goes back to my saying and also that of Jesus, "Beware the teachings of man."

Many who seek are now manipulated by those whose agenda is not of Christ. IT is terrible. "Lord forgive them for they no not what they do."

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Yes, there has been an aethist agenda to use your own words.
This country has for quite a few years have allowed the views of the minority to rule. If one person is against something, the laws MUST be changed in order not to violate that one person's rights.

And the problem with this is? What if the 'minority' is just under half? Actually.. I'm just remembering your last election..

As you stated, Aethists only compose 1% of the US population. then why do there beleifs govern the entire nation?

They don't. You are free to practice your chosen religion in your own time.

The courts back in the 60's attempted to allow the beliefs of the aethists to be incorporated in our schools. The courts, took out the moment of prayer and replaced it with a moment of silence (see my previous post). This "moment of silence" was again considered a promotion of religion by Madalyn Murray O' Hair and this law was struck down.

Silence I would not have a problem with.. I think all kids could benefit from 'reflection' time.

Do I question morality? No as I do not know you and have nothing to base anything on.

Though you assume all immorality is caused by atheism.

I do question the morality of the US people (yes, I am one myself).

So do I.. though your immoral president is not an atheist.. he is a methodist.

When I went to school, yes there was discussions and lesson plans that at least introduced students to various religions. This was done to promote acceptance of the ways of other people in and around the world.

This would be in conflict with catholicism as 'thou shalt not worship graven images' so 'shared faiths' would not be condoned. There would be no pleasing even the majority.

I am sorry that you think that I was attacking your belief. That is not what I was posting.

How is blaming atheism for moral decay not attacking it?

What I posted, was that the denial of religion that the goverment, courts schools etc, promote has hurt this country. Unfortunately, Madalyn Murray O' Hair championed this cause and thus the religion of aethiesim is now the ruling religion in the US and again is directly the cause of the of the decline in american morality.

I am not american, but as far as I know kids are not taught to disbelieve [or believe] in god so atheism is not taught.. impartial. As for not teaching religion causing immorality.. for a long time rape in marriage was considered to be moral by religion.. and domestic violence was acceptable behaviour [reflected by the laws at the time as well]. Morals have changed not gotten worse [taking into account population growth and a growing tendancy not to hide things behing 'closed doors' like domestic violence]. The main problem I see in regards to society's decline is, corporatisation, the cultural myth that money buys happiness [now that is a religon for some] and a culture of 'sex sells everything'.

Religions (in most cases) teaches us basic morals. That is the basis of most religions. Without religion, without the belief system, the american pareents have an extremely difficult time in instilling morality in their childern especially when you consider the restraints that have been put on the parents.

Religion does not have a monopoly on morality.. quite the opposite IMO. If parents so desire they can send their children to religious schools.. but if they don't teach them morality at home there would be little point in doing so.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by riley]

No one has outlawed prayer in the public schools. This is a common minsconception due to the teachings of man. As long as prayer is done privately and not being led by the state everything is fine.

Remember if one was to lead a Christian prayer, perhaps a Muslim, then a Buddhist, then a Confusionist, then an atheist. The children would spend all day praying instead of learning the square root of 144.

Jesus, of course, said that one is to pray in "the closet"(private) anyway so this topic is drivel in the mind of this Christian.

when I'm praying? Am I praying in school? At work? While driving? Outlaw all you like, I will still pray. Sorry, but this is the most ridiculous waste of tax-payer dollars I can possibly think of.

Pray (they won't know, trust me), train, study.
God bless.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
No one has outlawed prayer in the public schools. This is a common minsconception due to the teachings of man. As long as prayer is done privately and not being led by the state everything is fine.

Sadly, several teachers haven't been told about this. There are many issues where teachers think students hang up thier first ammendment rights when they walk into the schoolhouse doors. Students are told they can't do reports on Christian subjects, if they're caught praying, many times they're asked to stop, among other things. So, though this is true, school officials tend to stay in the dark on this issue. The leaders in the schools (teachers/principals) enforce a law that doesn't exist. While, if it were challenged in court the case would go to the student, most parents won't back their children to that degree in a case like this. Especially if they, too, think students hang up thier first ammendment rights upon entering the schoolhouse.

Remember if one was to lead a Christian prayer, perhaps a Muslim, then a Buddhist, then a Confusionist, then an atheist. The children would spend all day praying instead of learning the square root of 144.

This isn't about state sponsored prayer, it's about allowing prayer in the public forum. If a student were to ask other students to be led in prayer, whatever the faith, I suspect the school would have a problem with it, even though the student would be well within his or her legal rights in doing so.

Jesus, of course, said that one is to pray in "the closet"(private) anyway so this topic is drivel in the mind of this Christian.

I think what you're referring to is this:
Matthew 6:5-6:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

My own personal interpretation of this scripture isn't that we need to be totally shut away from the public eye when we pray. That would be contrary to Jesus's own practice. He did, however, go to be alone with the Lord on occasion, too. Quiet time with the Lord is a very good thing, but our prayer life should not be limited to that. If it were to be limited to that, churches would be way off in having prayers there.

I believe what this scripture is saying is that we should not pray in public to earn a reaction of any sort from the world. Prayer is for the Lord and the Lord alone. If I start praying in public so as to stir a controversy, or to impress people with how religious I am, then I am being a hypocrite. However, if I'm in public and I start praying to be in communion with God, to speak with God, no matter the world around me, then I am not a hypocrite.

Just my interpretation, I am, by no means, a biblical scholar, so I could be 100% off in my understanding. (Heck, even if I was a biblical scholar I could be 100% off in my understanding!)

LOL! This is another interesting thread on the evil Christian belief.

Yes, we Christians force you to believe in our God. Jake, you will be kicked out of the secret society and you will eventually commit suicide by repeatedly shooting yourself in the back of the head!

Rant, you'll be hard pressed to show me that the Founding Fathers meant anything else but for this nation to be a Christian nation. I know this to be true because I've made it a point to STUDY and read, not simply find a few quotes, taken out of context, to make my point. It would be possible to peruse my last 4 or 5 years' worth of posting here at this board and prove that I am an athiest, but I know better.

In regtard to that, Skadi, I suggest you go battle Christians in a nation that is not a Christian nation. Tehre are plenty of them, and it should be very easy to do. As far as this nation is concerened, its laws are based upon the laws of the Christian God. Might you be seeing where this is leading? Yup, you're right. If it violates the laws of the Christian God, it violates the laws of htis nation.

America started out "Christianized", Skadi, it is "becoming" Christianized.

The destruction of truthful history and the revisionism of it is one of the main things the enemy of this nation did to bring it down. The reason you believe you have the right to be immoral is not because it is protected by the nation or its laws in any way, but because history has been perverted, just like today's society, and because of this, the truth is hidden from you. Not that you might not be a deviant in some form or fashion 60 years ago, you just wouldn't have thought you had the right.

There is nothing "neo" about what I'm saying, unless you believe that the 1770's was a "neo" age.
There is a neo, and it is dangerous, and that neo is the idea of right-wing. Seems you bunch haven't pulled your noses out of the New York Times long enough to figure out the difference between right-wing and conservatism. Big difference. Huge difference.
Anyway, that is why I prefer to call myself a Constitutionalist. I understand it, and the history surrounding it, better than Karl Rove understands the Republican party. Were we to have more Americans spend ten or twelve good years of constitutional studying, we wouldn't have threads like this, or tax burdens like we do, or gestapo troopers demanding to see your papers because you went 10 mph faster than what a sign says you can, sexual deviants claiming to have special rights for deviancy, the need for Amber Alerts...were we to get back on the right path, things would be much better.

But, don't worry, Skadi, things will never be that way again. Your vows to stand against God are unnecessary. Whatever resurgance of historical reassertion you might see will surely be nothing more than a flash in the pan. The media and judicial control is too strong. The media controls what we learn and the judicial system will make sure that the nation is never a Christian one again. And, the Christians, the ones who created this nation to begin with, will never have the energy to retake it through blood and sacrifice again. That would interfere with their 401(k)'s, their cable TV's and their big, fat, lazy, pampered arses. You have nothing at all to worry about.

Regardless, Jake, someone will come around to help you with the suicide. You know the rules of the secret society.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
No one has outlawed prayer in the public schools. This is a common minsconception due to the teachings of man. As long as prayer is done privately and not being led by the state everything is fine.

Remember if one was to lead a Christian prayer, perhaps a Muslim, then a Buddhist, then a Confusionist, then an atheist. The children would spend all day praying instead of learning the square root of 144.

Jesus, of course, said that one is to pray in "the closet"(private) anyway so this topic is drivel in the mind of this Christian.

Let us remember, though, there is no constitutional law against a prayer being led by the state. As a matter of fact, there is no constitutional law against a prayer being led by the federal government. And, there is no law that is constitutional that says prayer cannot be led by a teacher in a school.

A prayer, in order to be constitutionally offered be the feds, would have to show no partiality to any particular denomination, and it would also have to be Christian.
At the state level, it can be biased toward a denomination, as the 1st amendment does not prohibit the individual states from preferring one denomination over the others.
At the school level, the usurped power by the Supreme Court has been used to deniy the right of led prayers in school because the local schools are federally funded. True, led prayer in school is not illegal, but the constitution is not the guiding document of the supreme court, and it hasn't been for decades.
As a matter of fact, it hasn't been the principle document since the 1860's, for any of the government!

Originally posted by junglejake

Stop forcing your beliefs on us

We've all heard it on here and in our day to day lives. Christianity, by being in the public square, is forcing its views on people. I find the use of the word "force" very interesting.

It's not as powerful as it is obnoxious.

Yes, you're high on the body and spirit of Christ. We get it. You're submissive to the will of God and THE WORD. Okay.

Not everyone else is, and this may surprise you, but many people also don't want to be. Your brand of emotional masochism might keep you sane and healthy, and that's great. But, if I wanted it, I know where to find it.

I don't need the modern day version of the penniless scamps selling me guilded miracles and St. John's Wort in the streets of Prague. Sometimes we wanna get from point A to point B, without having to step over your kind- tripping us to save us.

Originally posted by brimstone735
Yes, you're high on the body and spirit of Christ. We get it. You're submissive to the will of God and THE WORD. Okay.

I wish! If I was completely submissive to the will of God, I probably wouldn't be putting half the posts I do on this site. However, I got your point.

You were saying, "Shut up about religion", right? That's not going to happen. My faith is one of my passions in life, and ranks number one among the three. The other two would be politics and science (physics, in particular). I like to talk about all three, and I'm not going to stop because someone finds it obnoxious. I would recommend hitting that ignore button right under the picture of Christ beneath my nickname if it really bothers you so much

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by brimstone735
Yes, you're high on the body and spirit of Christ. We get it. You're submissive to the will of God and THE WORD. Okay.

I wish! If I was completely submissive to the will of God, I probably wouldn't be putting half the posts I do on this site. However, I got your point.

You were saying, "Shut up about religion", right? That's not going to happen. My faith is one of my passions in life, and ranks number one among the three. The other two would be politics and science (physics, in particular). I like to talk about all three, and I'm not going to stop because someone finds it obnoxious. I would recommend hitting that ignore button right under the picture of Christ beneath my nickname if it really bothers you so much

Since two of your three passions are faith, and physics do you that they work hand in hand?

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Since two of your three passions are faith, and physics do you that they work hand in hand?

Absloutly 100%! I occasionally refer to God as the Great Physicist. This is also part of the reason I do buy into the evolution thing: God seems to have set out rules for the universe. Knowing those rules, He planted just what needed to be there in order for things to blow up and create little ol' Earth. I was actually, for a time, considering going to school for quantum mechanics, but ended up signing on for something completely different, instead.

(The reason I have such a problem with evolution isn't based on the thoery, but rather the politics that have entered that realm of scientific discussion. It's no longer about science, it's about politics. )

Where was Christianity's absolute power on 9/11?
Where is Christianity's absolute power with any plague or epidemic?
Where is Christianity's absolute power over global warming?

If this empty religion has absolute power why does it not prevent 27,000 homicides and 56,000 suicides every single year?

Why can't it prevent its followers from being complete idiots?

The constitution of this country states that the government will make no law, and take no action that favor's one faith over another. Therefore having religious display's in court houses, or public property is a violation of the foundation of this nation.

If you don't like our Constitution, get the hell out of our country.

Isn't it nice to have the "Love it or leave it" rhetoric thrown right back in your faces?

Originally posted by Legalizer
Where was Christianity's absolute power on 9/11?
Where is Christianity's absolute power with any plague or epidemic?
Where is Christianity's absolute power over global warming?

If this empty religion has absolute power why does it not prevent 27,000 homicides and 56,000 suicides every single year?

Why can't it prevent its followers from being complete idiots?

The constitution of this country states that the government will make no law, and take no action that favor's one faith over another. Therefore having religious display's in court houses, or public property is a violation of the foundation of this nation.

If you don't like our Constitution, get the hell out of our country.

Isn't it nice to have the "Love it or leave it" rhetoric thrown right back in your faces?

So then, if our history was impacted by a religion in any way, we have to pretend that didn't happen? The US was founded as a Christian country. The seporation of church and state issue came up when the Baptist church asked Thomas Jefferson to make them the national church. That's where the issue was. The government couldn't take on a national church, and could do nothing to restrict people's practice of faith. There's nothing in there about denial of history. There's nothing in there that states nothing of religious bearing is permitted in a publicly owned arena.

As for it being unable to prevent its followers from being complete idiots, is this because they believe something you believe to be false? The whole power aspect was not related to 9-11 or any other event. The power aspect is that if I, apparently, share my faith with anyone, I'm forcing them to believe as I do. No other belief in the US, from political to scientific has that kind of power, so much so that laws have to be created to prevent people from forcing their beliefs on others.

Rock, rock on!