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The Absolute Power of Christianity!

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posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Shonet1430

...and so that makes it ok?


Did I say that I would do it? No.


Whether you would personally do it is completely and totally irrelevant.

I'll just summarize for you since you keep trying to dodge. According to Moses, god explicitly permitted slavery (still does!). Not only did he permit it, he even regulated it, which is a tacit form of approval. You and I both agree that slavery is wrong. Either the scriptures are full of crap, or your morals and mine are higher than god's.


Originally posted by Shonet1430

Non-hebrew slaves were not given such treatment. That I have to spell that out for you is telling.


Yes they were as I have shown already. Your horse is starting to smell.


Fact: Male Hebrew slaves were singled out to be freed every 7 years, but non-Hebrews were not.

What happened in jubilee years does not change that fact. Considering the average lifespan was about 30, most slaves probably never lived to see a jubilee year anyway, assuming they were ever really observed.

You've earned an ignore.




posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Evolution is a religion. I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution


I certainly wish you would explain this to me. Surely one realizes that creationism, and evolution work hand in hand? If one can accept the teachings of man out of one book certainly one can grasp the science that GOD gave us the ability to have?



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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On the first page of this thread, "THE Absolute POWER of Christianity" there is a writing by "monkeyboy". I could not have stated a more coherent reasoning than what he did. I certainly wish I had caught his writing earlier for the "monkeyboy" is to be commended.

Meanwhile, others toss their Bible verses at those that question, and those that question question.

Very simple. GOD is LOVE. Anything else that is preached or used to gain a position in GOD's(Jesus also) name should be shamed.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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There's nothing in the Bible that says that Christians are to be the voice of public policy. To me, it's akin to laziness. If everybody has to follow the same rules (doctrines), then the congregations don't have to make an effort to get out into the community and actually help those in need.


I sincerely agree with him. Especially if one reads his comments about the pseudo preachers and the far right.

It always amazes me that conservatives(the far right) are so anti-government, but always wants the government to take care of "moral" issues. Quite an oxymoron.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

Evolution is a religion. I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution


I certainly wish you would explain this to me. Surely one realizes that creationism, and evolution work hand in hand? If one can accept the teachings of man out of one book certainly one can grasp the science that GOD gave us the ability to have?



How could you possibly think evolution and creationism go hand-in-hand?

Creationism: a paraphysical creator/God created the physical universe in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago.

Evolution: God sparked a series of self-sustaining events 12 billion to 20 billion years ago and life evolved from a primordial cell, which evolved from basic molecular structures... or, the physical universe is composed of eternal matter and energy created by nothing.

Believe what you want, but the two theories are completely contradictary.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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Creationism: a paraphysical creator/God created the physical universe in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago.


Well, if that is what one considers the "true" definition of creationism you are certainly correct. However, that is an absolutely amazing stand to myself that I have trouble comprehending given the "knowledge" of today. However, I respect the theory. The word "theory" is key however.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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Creationism: a paraphysical creator/God created the physical universe in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago.

Evolution: God sparked a series of self-sustaining events 12 billion to 20 billion years ago and life evolved from a primordial cell, which evolved from basic molecular structures... or, the physical universe is composed of eternal matter and energy created by nothing.



Isnt that Creationism

vs

Intelligent Design
?

The God of real evolution is 'random chance'.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 06:59 PM
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Yes, I am very much at peace with myself.


I can tell. It's an amazing feeling to find that peace. My husband has been going through a personal struggle. I hate seeing him go through it but he's coming around. I can't wait to see him find it within himself.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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So what if the case wasn't originally about whether this was a Christian nation... that verdict is still given in the final summarization (in fact, the second to last paragraph of your citation).


So what if? That is what if. The case was not about it being a Christian nation therefore there is no verdict given.


By the way, no one is saying that if this is a Christian country that you have to be a Christian, we are saying that it is officially Christian. Just as if a country has an official language... it doesn't mean you have to speak it.


And I wouldn't be. But this country can't have a national religion because that would be endorsing one. Since Christianity and the status of the nation and Christianity weren't the point of the Trinity case, the verdict can't be overturned. If you could overthrow a case based on the court's opinion, then many cases would be overturned. Fact remains that it is their opinion and not the verdict. The verdict is either for or against the issues at hand. The opinion is mere reflection and insight to the case and whether that be the majority opinion or dissenting opinion.


If Christianity is true then there IS A CHRIST/SON ASPECT who is one and the same as the Father, but is at the same time different, who became "fully man, yet fully God." The Father aspect of God never became man just as he said, so we are both correct in our conclusion.


Not buying it. G-d doesn't have genitalia. Since he has male and female attributes as shown in Genesis, he would have to be a hermaphrodite. I'm sure the thought of Jesus having a vagina would freak some people out.


When Christ says he is the "Son of Man" he is not being literal. It is a metaphor signifying that he is a servant.


Ok and good for him. He also says son of G-d which is what every male Jew is, was, and will be.


Your whole argument above doesn't hold any water. Everything IS about the Christ in the Christian faith, but Christ is God.


In your opinion, Christ is G-d.


The Jewish faith is based on the same God in a different aspect: the Father/creator, but is based just as much on the Father/creator aspect as Christianity is based on the Christ/saviour aspect.


How so?


Without Christ the Christian faith would fail. Without Yahweh the Jewish faith would fail.


I wouldn't fail. Judaism has taught me a way to live and not a person to worship. You are a part of a personality religion. I'll refrain from using cult. If I were worshipping Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Ruth, Sarah, etc then I would be guilty of following a personality provided that they were all real people. My entire relationship isn't based on being Jewish, it's based on me. I don't fit solely within one realm of any religion. I never will. I have some things that I can't and won't compromise on.


To suggest that Christianity is somehow not as stable as the Jewish faith is not accurate. Your second to last sentence can be used by Christians too.


I never said it's not stable. I said that yours falls apart if Jesus isn't real. I still have my way of life and have been taught a better way to live.


The Old Testament scriptures that detail family (or as you like to call it: tribal) lineage DO GO THROUGH MEN AND MEN ONLY except one or two instances.


Name them. And I said it goes through men. But a Jewish man can't marry a Gentile and have Jewish kids. Their kids may be of the tribe of whatever but they aren't Jewish. A Jewish woman can marry a Gentile and her kids are Jewish. Look it up.


After all... the Son of Man will be of the tribe of Judah, of the House of David... and through Joseph he is. You cannot dispute the fact that according to the Bible through Joseph he can be traced to David. And the New Testament obviously intends to connect Jesus to David through Joseph because that is how the New Testament traces his lineage back to David.


THERE IS NO SPERM DONOR. Do I need to tell you about the birds and the bees? Do we honestly need to get that basic? Joseph is NOT his father if G-d impregnates her therefore he has NO tribal heritage as G-d is NOT affiliated with a tribe. Is that so hard to understand? I know that Christians are really pulling at straws with this one but step back, look at it and then it will make sense.


I did read the rest of your verse and comment, but I simply selected the part of the verse that is a rebuttal to your statement originally.


Then you would have understood what was being said provided that you understand the English language.


When Adam and Eve SINNED, DEATH entered the world. SIN=Death; Death=SIN.


Adam=earth. Eve=life. Story=metaphor. Original sin is not a concept of Judaism. Instead it is a part of the Bible hijacked by Christians.


You're right; it is about world peace. After the apocolyptic battle in Israel, Christ will return and reign triumphant for one-thousand years. World peace will ensue. I am completely familiar with Gog and Magog.


In your opinion. See the rules for the moshaich have been laid out and Jesus didn't play them out therefore he is ruled out. He's dead. Done. Gone. Poof. Stick a fork in him. IF he lived that is.


He first destroyed sin as the divine sacrifice. And he will destroy death when he returns if you are so concerned about the literal interpretation.


He didn't destroy anything because Jews still offer sacrifice. He can't destroy death because he's dead. End of story.


The Jewish faith never says there will not be a second coming of Christ, it says the Messiah will come, but it doesn't say how many times. Cite a verse that says he will not come twice...


You can't be serious. I laid out the requirements for what the person will do in his lifetime and dying isn't one of them. That alone says ONCE. There is no second coming in Judaism. Look to John the Baptist to backeth that one up.


I am not saying that Judaism has to agree with Christian interpretation per say, I am just argueing that Judaism can verify Christianity and vice versa.


You can't "verify" what you don't know. Goodie for me I was raised as a fundie and am now happily a Jew. I've been on both sides of the fence. Christianity is a spin off of Judaism. It should required to at least know squat.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:05 PM
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I have already shown and demonstrated how a Christian can effectively show that Jesus did fulfill prophecy:


Thanks for clarifying Christian as he was not the Jewish moshaich.


1. Through Joseph he can be traced directly to David "Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli...the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David," Luke 3:23-31


He has no sperm donor so this can't apply.


2. Was born in Bethleham "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." Micah 5:2


This is not a literal birth in Bethlehem but of David. As stated above, he can't be connected to David.


3. Was speared in the side "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one mourns for an only son." Zechariah 12:10


This is not a messianic prophecy but is about the general that will lead Ezekiel's war. Read outside the verse. It will make sense. The next verse gives a big clue. And what a pitiful translation. What version is that?


*****4. Not a bone was broken, Hands and feet were pierced, lots were casted for his clothing "a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing." Psalms 22:11-18


Psalms are not prophecies. If you are going to look for Jesus in the Psalms, you may also find him in the sonnets of Shakespeare. The Jewish moshaich is to destroy death, not die. No sense made by this.


5. John the Baptist calls him the Son of God "A voice of one calling: 'In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God.'" Isaiah 40:3


You do know that John the Baptist didn't write Isaiah right? I'm not sure why you posted a verse with John the Baptist. Also, Jesus was the son of G-d as were all other male Jews. How many more times do I have to say it? And this verse is clearly not messianic. If you read, it's about G-d restoring Israel after the Babylonian exile.


6. Despised by people "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:3


This is a reaction to the speech given by G-d. See chapter 52.


He never said "Christians" are the one true faith. He said a belief in the Father, a belief in Christ, and a belief in the Spirit are together the ONE and ONLY God is the one true faith. You can call it whatever you want: Christianity, "The Way," Jesus Freaks, it doesn't matter, but if the Gospels are true then a faith that Christ alone is the way to the Father can be trusted as accurate interpretation.


And what IF it isn't true? What IF all are right? Do you not believe that Judaism is also right since the whole purpose of Jesus' second coming is for the Jews? Even his first coming is said to be for them.


Christ teaches that salvation is given freely, but that isn't the end. Christians are obligated by Christ to fight the good fight: to bring the lost to salvation by showing the love of the Messiah. "So shall we continue to live in sin? By no means!"


I don't live in sin and I do it without Jesus. I do it just like a bajillion others do too. It's not hard.


Don't forget about how accepting Christ was of women despite a culture where women were stoned to death.


I hate to break it to you but Jesus was a Jew and Jews do have regard for women and their roles. Also divorce is in the Tanakh. So I'm not sure what is so overwhelming about him giving water to a divorcee.


Christian fundamentalism is actually very unlazy. Just think about the MILLIONS of Christian missionaries across the world who are persecuted daily and hundreds of thousands who are killed for what they believe.


Think about the Christians who have killed the many more millions of Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Wiccans, etc. The numbers don't compare.


I will defend however, the Christians who are persecuted and die believing that Christ is the only way, because Christ himself says he is. Perhaps he is right. What if?



I don't worry about what if because I have faith in G-d. Better yet, I have experience in G-d.


I don't want to debate Christ's existence because that is a deep and detailed argument. If you seriously think he didn't then I would suggest reading Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ." This book establishes how factual his existence really was.


I could also suggest many books that say the opposite. You could also start with small things like www.jesuspuzzle.com.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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Can you back up your claim that all faiths are true based on scripture?


Yes, the laws of Noah are for all of humanity and came before Sinai. So if those are for all of humanity and all have those incorporated, then you can't go wrong.


Christianity says or infers countless times that it is the only true faith.
Islam is the same way.
So is Judaism: "There will be NO other gods before me."
"Don't make FALSE idols." But I thought all faiths were true?
Why is it wrong to make an idol and worship it if all faiths are true? Why is Baal a false god? Why are sorcerors and mediums evil? Satanic cults must be true... they must be full of the "light."


You're projecting. The commandment for no other G-ds was directed...to....the...Jews. Got that? Not to everyone. To the Jews. No where in the Tanakh does it say that Gentiles cannot do those things. Notice the ones that get in trouble are the ones mixing with Jews. So for a Jew, making idols and worshipping them is wrong. Following the other gods is wrong for a Jew. But it's fine....for you.


Those that haven't heard the Word, or will never be given the chance will be judged based on conscience, but those that have heard it and have rejected it will have no excuse before God.


I have one. It's called being a Jew!



Can you quote me on criticizing someone personally? If not then you shouldn't say I do. If I do then I apologize.


I was meaning that you interpret scripture wrongly.


Good conclusion you make. You are probably right, but that doesn't make Christian fundamentalism (as long as it is done according to Christ's teaching) wrong.


I don't think any religion is wrong so long as it brings them to G-d. Well I take that back. Those that teach theirs is the only way is IMO the only wrong one.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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"I am the way, the truth, and the light NO ONE comes to the Father, but by me."


Still doesn't say only and again, so sayeth Osiris.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Whether you would personally do it is completely and totally irrelevant.


It's perfectly relevant to my opinion.


I'll just summarize for you since you keep trying to dodge.


I'm dodging nothing.


According to Moses, god explicitly permitted slavery (still does!). Not only did he permit it, he even regulated it, which is a tacit form of approval. You and I both agree that slavery is wrong. Either the scriptures are full of crap, or your morals and mine are higher than god's.


G-d doesn't have morals. Those are human qualities. And if G-d permitted the Jews to have slaves, why don't I have one? I hate doing laundry dang it!


Fact: Male Hebrew slaves were singled out to be freed every 7 years, but non-Hebrews were not.


Wrong. Only the Canaanite slaves were forever. Already shown and defined who was a Canaanite.


What happened in jubilee years does not change that fact.


Actually it does as it sets them free, minus the Canaanites.


Considering the average lifespan was about 30, most slaves probably never lived to see a jubilee year anyway, assuming they were ever really observed.


LOL not even worth it.


You've earned an ignore.


Yay my first cry baby. Good thing as a Jewish woman I'm not commanded to love my neighbor. It's too time constraining. All I can say is that I must be doing something right!



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by Shonet1430

"I am the way, the truth, and the light NO ONE comes to the Father, but by me."


Still doesn't say only and again, so sayeth Osiris.


Osiris was defeated by Moses



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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The God of real evolution is 'random chance'.


So then he's impotent. An all powerful, all knowing G-d doesn't have random or chance.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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I can tell. It's an amazing feeling to find that peace. My husband has been going through a personal struggle. I hate seeing him go through it but he's coming around. I can't wait to see him find it within himself.


Yes, and keep reminding him that it is within him. Most of us when very young have our light shine "brightly". However, many quickly begin to lose that shine. The teachings of man have diminished that "light". It is the realization that everything is truly GOD's "the great physicist" illusion is when the "light" begins to emerge again. One then, hard to describe, comes "intune" with things? I read the teachings of Jesus much different than most. I don't know about any other religion's leaders for I have never studied. In fact, never studied the Bible until....and then when I started reading Jesus's words and listened or read what religion has taught I was appalled.

Most speak of being "reborn". I believe it is actually a "reawakening". Many try too hard to predict their future when they should be trying to remember their past.

I wish your husband well.

Namaste'



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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I can tell. It's an amazing feeling to find that peace. My husband has been going through a personal struggle. I hate seeing him go through it but he's coming around. I can't wait to see him find it within himself.


Yes, and keep reminding him that it is within him. Most of us when very young have our light shine "brightly". However, many quickly begin to lose that shine. The teachings of man have diminished that "light". It is the realization that everything is truly GOD's "the great physicist" illusion is when the "light" begins to emerge again. One then, hard to describe, comes "intune" with things? I read the teachings of Jesus much different than most. I don't know about any other religion's leaders for I have never studied. In fact, never studied the Bible until....and then when I started reading Jesus's words and listened or read what religion has taught I was appalled.

Most speak of being "reborn". I believe it is actually a "reawakening". Many try too hard to predict their future when they should be trying to remember their past.

I wish your husband well.

Namaste'



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Osiris was defeated by Moses


Man! Those damn Jews! Osiris just came to fulfill the law. He was the Anointed one born to the virgin Isis on December 25 in a manger and his birth was announced by star to three wise men. He didn't have a biological father but his earthly father was Seb (look it up...translates to Joseph). And poor Osiris, he only wanted to teach in the temple like he did when he was 12 but he disappeared until he was baptized at age 30. It must be the baptism in the river Iarutana (look it up...Jordan) by Anup the Baptizer (look it up....John). He just wanted to travel and teach and he tamed the people with music and gentleness, not by the force of arms. I know! It was because he performed miracles, exercised demons, and raised El-Osiris from the dead! Yes! That's it! Jews were commanded to stay away from necromancers! It probably just shocked them when he walked on water. But I bet they were happy that Typhon betrayed him. So now...let me get this right. Moses crucified Osiris? He was crucified between two thieves on the 17th day of Athyr and was buried in a tomb where he arose on the third day. His suffering, death and resurrection were celebrated by his disciples each and every single year on the Vernal Equinox. That's okay that Moses did that. He's expected to return and reign for one thousand years. After all he was called, "The Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "god's Anointed Son,' the "Son of Man," the "Word made Flesh," the "word of truth."

So Moses was behind all of that? Fascinating. Chapter and verse please.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

Creationism: a paraphysical creator/God created the physical universe in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago.


Well, if that is what one considers the "true" definition of creationism you are certainly correct. However, that is an absolutely amazing stand to myself that I have trouble comprehending given the "knowledge" of today. However, I respect the theory. The word "theory" is key however.


What "knowledge" of today can prove the literal Creationist approach is wrong or even...... improbable?



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Shonet1430

The God of real evolution is 'random chance'.


So then he's impotent. An all powerful, all knowing G-d doesn't have random or chance.


I could be reading you wrong, but are you a literal creationist? I'm Christian, your Jewish, but do we agree on literal Creationism?




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