The Absolute Power of Christianity!

OKAY HALT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't stand this line of thinking anymore...

that it isn't your works that get you 'admittance' in heaven...

if not by works than by what? ... faith ... ? faith is entangible unless one actually uses it.
Faith wasn't as polluted as it is today..
Faith was meant to mean that YOUR THINKING and YOUR ACTING were in balance...
Not that you can act like a bloody dolt and say I Love Jesus, and run away like a little kid ... It means you act impeccably... I absolutely truthfully tell you, saying you love jesus and believe in him is NOT good enough, if you do not believe in his disciples...
You are merely going thru the motions, even the motions of false belief, and false faith.
You compartmentalize and allocate God, you are false prophets, false messengers and the leaders of blind men being blind yourself.

EDIT:

Saint4God

People that follow it do not have power, God does. God is the absolute power of Christianity.

Go read the bible again... God said Specifically that he gave us the dominion over earth.. the keys to bind whatever we wanted on heaven or earth...
He also said that HIS WORD stands BEFORE him... He cannot Break his own word..
Go read the bible again my friend.. You have perverted it in your own mind.. DO NOT tell people they are beneath anyone... God has said otherwise..

[edit on 11/9/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by Prote
Shaunybaby pulled you up on deflective writing, avoiding answering the questions, rhetoric for answers.

What question did I avoid? Please ask again and I'll do my best to explain more plainly. I have no english degree nor taken a class on debating. No published books, no recognized writings of any kind. I appreciate your compliment that I have some kind of writing skeelz, but it's far from accurate.

Originally posted by Prote
He will agree that he and I have never spoken in any way,

Doesn't matter either way.

Originally posted by Prote
yet I found it highly amusing because we had seen statements like this before.

There's something to be said for consistency.

Originally posted by Prote
Someone else has pulled you up recently for the exact same thing haven't they, completely independant of other members posts.

Don't know what you mean nor know why it is relevant to the topic.

Originally posted by Prote
What does God tell you about that kind of coincidence?

Don't know what you mean nor know why it is relevant to the topic.

Originally posted by Prote
I still seek saint, I just realise that you have little to offer.

You have not pursued, how can you say I have little to offer?

Originally posted by Prote
My cynicism is not to the subject but to those who are unable to tackle an issue head on.

Speak plainly and I will answer plainly. If I fail to answer plainly, I will try again.

Originally posted by Prote
I cannot hold a conversation this way. I told you that.

Sorry to hear, I hope some day you'll find one who will be able help you connect. Perhaps JungleJake, Kinglizard or dbates? There are plenty here who have the ability I'm sure.

Originally posted by Prote
Then another member goes and posts the exact same thing and you skim right over it, ignore it and carry on. Unbelievable.

Please describe in detail what it is you are talking about.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
OKAY HALT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Halting.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
I can't stand this line of thinking anymore...

that it isn't your works that get you 'admittance' in heaven...

if not by works than by what? ... faith ... ?

Your argument isn't with me. I merely quoted the answer.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
faith is entangible unless one actually uses it.
Faith wasn't as polluted as it is today..
Faith was meant to mean that YOUR THINKING and YOUR ACTING were in balance...
Not that you can act like a bloody dolt and say I Love Jesus, and run away like a little kid ... It means you act impeccably... I absolutely truthfully tell you, saying you love jesus and believe in him is NOT good enough,

What did Christ say to the theif on the cross next to him before he died? What "good deeds" did this theif do?

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
if you do not believe in his disciples...
You are merely going thru the motions, even the motions of false belief, and false faith.
You compartmentalize and allocate God, you are false prophets, false messengers and the leaders of blind men being blind yourself.

How are you able to judge what I believe? I can tell you you're off the mark.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
Go read the bible again...

I read it just about every day.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
God said Specifically that he gave us the dominion over earth.. the keys to bind whatever we wanted on heaven or earth...
He also said that HIS WORD stands BEFORE him... He cannot Break his own word..
Go read the bible again my friend.. You have perverted it in your own mind..

I quoted it. It is not me you have issue with.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
DO NOT tell people they are beneath anyone... God has said otherwise..

What person have I said is beneath another? I quoted "for all have sinned". Are you familiar with what the word "all" means? That means you, me, and everyone else in the world.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by saint4God]

For instance these quotes..

Hebrews 6:17
Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the HEIRS of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath.

Pslams 119:89-90
Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens. Your faithfulness continues through all generations.

Pslams 138:2-3
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted your name above all things and your word above your name.

Luke 18:1-2
Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up

Ephesians 6:17-18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

Matthew 16:19-20
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18-20
I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For were two or three come together in my name, THERE I AM WITH THEM

That is the absolute power of Christianity.

Good quotes. They didn't answer any of my questions or address any of my points, but appreciate them all nonetheless. I hope my statements weren't taken to mean that once you have faith you should do no works. On the contrary, the book of James (as previously cited) has a lot to say about giving a person's faith "legs". Included in that is mercy, help, and other deeds to help not only yourself grow, but for the benefit of others through God's appointment.

As you said that Christ is with those gathered in his name there is power, which is what I'm saying too. The absolute power is God, the gift of Christ. His presence, His power, His love.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I quoted it. It is not me you have issue with.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
DO NOT tell people they are beneath anyone... God has said otherwise..

What person have I said is beneath another[? I quoted "for all have sinned". Are you familiar with what the word "all" means? That means you, me, and everyone else in the world.

I won't deal with the rest because you were just dancing..

as for your statement I quoted it. It is not me you have issue with.
Yeh, you quoted it for your personal gain or your perverted views, I can totally empathize with muslims and muhammad on that respect...

as for your NEW claim that you never said anyone was beneath another...
You said we were all inferior to God... God raises himself above no man... his light would than cast shadows......
His Light is with us all times,..
Stop compartmentalizing and allocating God Put your Bible down and grab a dictionary for those ones..
There is no such thing as inferiority, only IGNORANCE of the Light. Ignorance isn't inferior.. its already there, yet it ignores it.

EDIT:
I want to take this time to perhaps shine a light in your eyes..

Pslams 138:2-3
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted your name above all things and your word above your name.

What is a word? ... a spoken occurence, a LIVE thing.. a living WORD... Words spoken at the MOMENT ... not written words... but SPOKEN words.

What is a name? ... something GIVEN to someone.. something from the past! not a living WORD but a predetermined measurement... a written word, a 'recorded' word



[edit on 11/9/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by saint4God
A GREAT QUESTION! It's all about motivation. Many times in life people do things to gain something, to get a reward. At work, it's "Good job saint4God" here's a paycheck. Or in college it was "good job saint4God" here's an A+. We're so used to a meritocracy that it's a hard thing to grapple. It wasn't much different in Jesus' time here on earth...which is why he had to explain the concept many times in many ways.

But the meritocracy for religion is after-life, eternal life, heaven etc. However, I can do work, and not get a paycheck (volunteer). I can also do a college type paper just to further my knowledge and understanding, hence there's no A+ needed. You're used to meritrocracy because it is what surrounds Christianity, and indeed many other religions that offer rewards.

Why then would a person already saved do good deeds? The book of James puts it best, but essentially it's out of gratitude for that gift already received, the love of God therefore wanting to do good, and the desire to spread that love to others as well. It's a whole new nature, a perspective that's refeshing to see others benefit.

But you're still doing it with the reward of heaven. Honestly, the greatest deed any person could possibly do is to give blood. The only reward there is the knowledge that you are helping to save lives.

I tend to think I'm good to go on self-esteem. But, to say "I am tall!" standing next to the Eiffel Tower is a little ridiculous, comparatively speaking.

So we should all think ourselves inferior because of tall buildings such as the Eiffel Tower? Remeber it's 'man' that built it. Man could tear it down. Man can build even taller structures. The concept of 'God' is created by man, that concept is written down by man, religion could be destroyed by man. We hold the cards. So again I asked 'why belittle yourself'?

[edit on 9-11-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
I won't deal with the rest because you were just dancing..

Didn't know I had that talent.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
Yeh, you quoted it for your personal gain or your perverted views, I can totally empathize with muslims and muhammad on that respect...

It says what it says. Read the whole chapter to ensure I'm within the correct context. In fact, read the whole book they came from.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
as for your NEW claim that you never said anyone was beneath another... You said we were all inferior to God... God raises himself above no man...

"But I tell you, in this you are not right, for God is greater than man." - Job 33:2

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
his light would than cast shadows......
His Light is with us all times,..
Stop compartmentalizing and allocating God Put your Bible down and grab a dictionary for those ones..

I thought you wanted me to read the Bible? Now you want me to put it down? By the way, the dictionary is my 2nd most used book.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
There is no such thing as inferiority, only IGNORANCE of the Light. Ignorance isn't inferior.. its already there, yet it ignores it.

Didn't I just say that among men the word "all" is used? As far as God goes, he has stated "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD." - Isaiah 55:8

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
I want to take this time to perhaps shine a light in your eyes..

For someone who believes no-one is above another, you're certainly positioning yourself as a "greater light"

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
What is a word? ... a spoken occurence, a LIVE thing.. a living WORD... Words spoken at the MOMENT ... not written words... but SPOKEN words.

Are you saying the Word of God (aka the Bible) is invalid because it is written?

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
What is a name? ... something GIVEN to someone.. something from the past! not a living WORD but a predetermined measurement...

Not sure what this has to do with our discussion. I think a believer would find that the Living Word as God speaks it is the same as the written Word of God as recorded in the Bible.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by saint4God]

What questions didn't you answer? Hmmmm, let's see. For starters you promised to tell me about your personal proof of God by virtue of proof of the opposite, the Devil but only on u2u. You then declined to talk about it on u2u. You went back on your word. There are many, many more.

Originally posted by saint4God
Don't know what you mean nor know why it is relevant to the topic.

Originally posted by saint4God
Don't know what you mean nor know why it is relevant to the topic.

Originally posted by saint4God
You have not pursued, how can you say I have little to offer?

See above.

Speak plainly and I will answer plainly.

I am undecided if that is an ability God has chosen to release to you.

Please describe in detail what it is you are talking about.

No. It's a complete waste of time.

I don't feel very pleased with myself for getting frustrated with you. Although you may be the cause, the manifestation is a fault with myself, so I will seek from within and leave this thread to those who may suit your style of communication.

Peace

"Voted Prote for Way Above"...
Perhaps he will change his ways,... we can only hope..

Saint...
no offense dude at all... you know the text but haven't absorbed it yet.. when you do you'll really be able to help people.. I have faith in you, and thats why I choose to comment on your posts... I apologize and understand I have been known to rant and confuse in the past, but I have learned and labored, so now I strive to actually help people understand their own problems not the ones I encountered..

[edit on 11/9/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Can someone back me up here? honestly.. how is this practical at all.. ??? A God that is superior.. but non-existant in us.. and judging us ?.. not expecting us to get to heaven by acts... but by faith.. ? yet judging us? .. sounds like the humpty dance to me.. (shout outs to digital underground) ..
Its apparent God isn't in you judging .. because you would have told yourself by now that some of these people are saying things that are true.. your too busy with your self-importance and self-pity to learn anything.. always about the OMG He didn't agree with me!
When people are trying to point out your faults you should take their word on it.. theres obviously something your doing wrong.. or else people would be thanking you for help, not arguing with you.


[edit on 11/9/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by Prote
What questions didn't you answer? Hmmmm, let's see. For starters you promised to tell me about your personal proof of God by virtue of proof of the opposite, the Devil but only on u2u.

If you looked hard enough you can find it on ATS already. Don't know why I need to repeat every time. It's on a word doc and 2 pages long. I don't think the mods want me to do that again...and now there's a 10,000 character maximum on posts.

Originally posted by Prote
You then declined to talk about it on u2u. You went back on your word. There are many, many more.

Send me your e-mail and I'll send it to you on MSWord doc. Or, I can copy-paste it into a U2U if there's no cap on it (I haven't tried). I don't know, haven't tried. It's a foolish thing for me to do without explaining why my mistakes should not be repeated and the testimony will not prove anything to you. I have not gone back on my word, you stopped talking to me.

Originally posted by Prote
See above.

On the thread I must stay on topic or get another warning from a mod. Surely you know this already. I have told the mods I would be more careful in the future.

Originally posted by Prote
I am undecided if that is an ability God has chosen to release to you.

Being undecided is better than cynicism.

Originally posted by Prote
No. It's a complete waste of time.

Actually it would be helping us both out. It is both of our loss if you're unwilling to do so.

Originally posted by Prote
I don't feel very pleased with myself for getting frustrated with you. Although you may be the cause, the manifestation is a fault with myself, so I will seek from within and leave this thread to those who may suit your style of communication.

Peace

You know how to reach me if I can be of further help. Again, there are others I have already named who could perhaps be a better fit for you. Though I must say connecting with God is not about Him conforming to you.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
saint....
Perhaps he will change his ways,... we can only hope..
no offense dude at all... you know the text but haven't absorbed it yet.. when you do you'll really be able to help people..

I have already helped people. I'm merely continuing in that work.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
or else people would be thanking you for help, not arguing with you.

People already haved thanked me for my help. And, I expect argument. That's what people on ATS do.

Originally posted by junglejake

Stop forcing your beliefs on us

We've all heard it on here and in our day to day lives. Christianity, by being in the public square, is forcing its views on people. I find the use of the word "force" very interesting.

When people are saying that Christians having the Ten Commandments in the public square or sharing their faith is forcing their beliefs upon them, they're pretty much admitting Christianity is the Truth. If being exposed to it forces you to become a Christian, it must be the most powerful message ever to have been created (in my opinion, it is).

So I guess I agree, by Christians sharing the Gospel, they are, in fact, forcing their beliefs and God's will on you.

I believe you are correct, but other faiths also have pieces of the truth, for our god is a relentlessingfully mercyfull God, the GOD of TRUTH.

here is an example of how Christians know your thought processes better than you do:

instead of choosing to love the truth first Or obey the first commandment, here are your first 6 loves:

1) Fear. this is merely a byproduct of your dna that says: "self before i serve", a.k.a. "self preservation", also known as "survive".

2) Food. you needed this for cellular replication in the womb.

3) Family. they nurished and protected you, and helped hide your fears from you.

4) Friends. you wanted to be accepted and belong.

5) Fornication. you were curious about a thing called "Love", and explored the physical manifestation of an etherial concept.

6) Finances. this provided you a means to gather more of your last 4 loves, and helped hide you from your first love of fear.

your 6 loves chosen prior to loving the truth were:
Fear, Food, Family, Friends, Fornication, & Finances.

6 choices you made to love 6 things that all begin with the 6th letter of your "ALL FIB BET".

so, instead of loving the truth, you have chosen to love: 666.

And, yes!!!!! you were fore-warned a couple thousand years ago. Sorry if you thought we were lying to you. But, if you weren't so busy lying to yourself, perhaps you would have found the time to hear the words of GOD?

Just because people don't want the 10 commandments on show in public, it does not mean they are admitting Christianity is 'true'. The problem is that we live in a multicultral society, and that not everyone is a Christian, and that not everyone upholds The Bible or certain Christian values. If we've got statues of the 10 commandments, then I want to know why we haven't got statues of Buddha, Mohammad or Shiva for example. That would be some town square. And not 'some' town square in the good sense, it'd look absolutely awful filled with too many statues of people's religions.

So the question should be: why, when there are no other statues of other cultures/religions, does Christianity get to have a statue of the 10 commandments?

For example, I used to live in Newmarket, Suffolk. It's a very popular horse racing town, and the town has grown up surrounded by horse racing for hundreds of years. There's a big statue as you enter of a horse. This is stating, this is Newmarket, we're famous for our horse racing, and we love it.

So what a 10 commandments statue is saying is, this is a Christian town/city, and that is total a misrepresentation, espeically as it's completely wrong. But that's the affect that it's giving off, if you just have one statue of one thing.

The Ten Commandments were reduced just like moses reduced the commandments...
the commandment that held all others was... Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You. and guard over thy neighbour as he were the pupil of your eye.

They are much simpler commandments to keep.. why do you choose to remember hardships when you were given cushioned boats..?

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
if not by works than by what? ... faith ... ?

"saved not by works, but by faith, lest any man should boast"
"it is Christ who lives in me who works"

lots of stuff like this.

You know, it becomes evident for a evangelical christian that it is by faith.
But I swear they go by works with fear that somehow they arent living up to whatever gift they have.

"and if it is a gift, and cant be by works, for it is no longer a gift"

But then one starts to think about this.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved?

The question is what does it mean to believe, and to have faith...your eternity depends on it, but its not by works or anything you can do to maintain. Infact,

"it is the spirit who calls..." and also "God hardened pharoahs heart, he hardens whom he wants and softens who he wants to. Who can call God unjust if He..." it goes on.

From the base level where most Christians come from, if they take this serious, and I know they do, they will swim around this issue until there dying day. If they are true and seek truth, with all their heart. Of course if they seek, the will indeed find...But when they emerge from the water it will be on a level and a perspective they could not have dreamed of before, and somewhat heretical to the norm.

What am I saying? Basically, if you get past these points, you will see collectively how concepts actually apply, but not in the way that is understood on the base level.
On the base level, the argument is a lost cause, and every Christian should hang up their hat, cause with it alone, as it is taught, they cannot hold the argument.

Some crucial things begin to crystalize in forms of questions.
As metioned...what of the man that never heard.
"man is without excuse because of nature"
What of choice?
"It is God who chooses not Man"

On this level you begin to see it, and perhaps in a disconserting way.
But wade through all of it, if you are already in it, and you will start to see the light of day.
But this comes with seeking with all your might, and that doesnt mean in limited places, such as Bible only, and limited ways of thought. i.e. narrow minded doctrine.

In the end of it all...you find, when you begin to accept, and find yourself in the only moment you have...which is the now.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by junglejake
end? This question I leave to y'all, because I'm not sure. Why start a concerted effort to remove a message of peace and love from society through law and propoganda?

As an agnostic-atheist I can understand why people get offended by Christian propoganda and Christian "idols" being placed in public venues. I don't want to see a pillar with the Ten Commandments on it just as much as I don't want to see a statue of Muhammad or a floor design made up of an upside down pentagram. It's not the message of peace and love we want removed from society, there's nothing wrong with peace and love. But to people like me Jesus is viewed as say...a false prophet. If someone who you viewed as a false prophet was preaching things about love and peace, would you want his statues and his teachings all over the country in all our public buildings and whatnot? The teachings of Bhuddists have some very nice things that go right in line with Christian ideals, but would you be okay with having every courtroom in America have a statue of "false idol"?

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
if not by works than by what? ... faith ... ?

"saved not by works, but by faith, lest any man should boast"
"it is Christ who lives in me who works"

lots of stuff like this.

You know, it becomes evident for a evangelical christian that it is by faith.
But I swear they go by works with fear that somehow they arent living up to whatever gift they have.

"and if it is a gift, and cant be by works, for it is no longer a gift"

But then one starts to think about this.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved?

The question is what does it mean to believe, and to have faith...your eternity depends on it, but its not by works or anything you can do to maintain. Infact,

"it is the spirit who calls..." and also "God hardened pharoahs heart, he hardens whom he wants and softens who he wants to. Who can call God unjust if He..." it goes on.

From the base level where most Christians come from, if they take this serious, and I know they do, they will swim around this issue until there dying day. If they are true and seek truth, with all their heart. Of course if they seek, the will indeed find...But when they emerge from the water it will be on a level and a perspective they could not have dreamed of before, and somewhat heretical to the norm.

What am I saying? Basically, if you get past these points, you will see collectively how concepts actually apply, but not in the way that is understood on the base level.
On the base level, the argument is a lost cause, and every Christian should hang up their hat, cause with it alone, as it is taught, they cannot hold the argument.

Some crucial things begin to crystalize in forms of questions.
As metioned...what of the man that never heard.
"man is without excuse because of nature"
What of choice?
"It is God who chooses not Man"

On this level you begin to see it, and perhaps in a disconserting way.
But wade through all of it, if you are already in it, and you will start to see the light of day.
But this comes with seeking with all your might, and that doesnt mean in limited places, such as Bible only, and limited ways of thought. i.e. narrow minded doctrine.

In the end of it all...you find, when you begin to accept, and find yourself in the only moment you have...which is the now.

Peace

Dalen

The point I was trying to make is...

Faith by itself is nothing unless it prompts you to actually do something..

If one had faith in God.. or Jesus or whoever- it would prompt them to act as God, Jesus or whoever, in faith that it is the way..

The point in the bible is.. you can't just dooooo good things with a mind that is horribly angry doing those good things..
Its taking away the 'REWARD' aspect of God... because the reward has already been given..

[edit on 11/15/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Kinglizard was gracious enough to share his testimony on My Near Death Experience and Ascent to Heaven. So, a bunch of believers were there swapping testimony, asking questions, having a civil discussion. Much to my surprise, someone had created membership on ATS and posted...

Oh my god, i been going through a hard time believing its been ruff my head has been full with nonsense of me going to hell and burning and my soul being took away from me.i ask god yesterday to show me the light and help me regain my faith and ease of mind. so i had enough of my head bothering me with the whole soul thing, so i googled why believe in god? after going to vairus links i came upon this after i read your story it clicked to me God answered. i now have more faith then ever its like your story was amazing thank you for that story!

Hope, a future, assurance and most of all...eternal life. That's the absolute power of CHRISTianity.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Hope, a future, assurance and most of all...eternal life. That's the absolute power of CHRISTianity.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by saint4God]

all religions provide (false) hope
all promote a positive future using this false hope
assurance in an unsure world is yet another similarity all religions share, and why they get so many blind adherents
and the promise of an eternal life? that's another similarity among religions

i don't see the absolute power of christianity there