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USA & Israel's Ugly Past - Did You Forget They Are State Sponsors of Terror?

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posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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What Is A Terrorist?

1. One who engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

2. One who leads an armed group that kills civilians as a means of political intimidation -- unless he terrorizes Haitians while on the CIA-payroll, as did 1990s death squad leader Emmanuel Constant, in which case the U.S. refuses to extradite him to Haiti, even after Sept. 11, 2001.

3. One who targets civilian airliners and ships -- unless he blows up a Cuban civilian airliner, killing 73 people, and fires at a Polish freighter, like Orlando Bosch, in which case he is coddled and paroled by the Bush Justice Department in 1990, and his extradition is blocked.

4. One who leads a group that engages in kidnapping and murder -- unless the victims are Hondurans attacked by CIA-backed death squad Battalion 316, in which case Battalion architect Gustavo Alvarez becomes a Pentagon consultant, while the then-ambassador to Honduras who downplayed the terror, John Negroponte, is appointed U.S. ambassador to the United Nations days after Sept. 11.

5. One who uses rape and murder for political purposes -- unless the victims are four U.S. church women sexually assaulted and killed in 1980 by members of El Salvador’s U.S.-backed military, in which case excuses and distortions pour forth from then-U.N. Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick (“these nuns were not just nuns; they were also political activists”) and Secretary of State Al Haig (the nuns “may have tried to run a roadblock”).

6. One who designates civilians as “soft targets” to be attacked in the cause of political transformation -- unless the targets are Nicaraguans killed by Contra guerrillas armed and directed by the U.S who, according to Human Rights Watch, “systematically engage in violent abuses…so prevalent that these may be said to be their principal means of waging war.”

7. One who facilitates a massacre of civilians -- unless the victims are 900 Palestinians shot and hacked to death in the Sabra and Shatila camps by Lebanese Christian militia as Israeli soldiers stood guard, in which case Israel’s then-Defense Minster (now Prime Minister) Ariel Sharon remains a U.S. “War on Terrorism” ally after being censured as indirectly responsible for the massacre by an Israeli commission of inquiry.

Jeff Cohen Source


______________________________________________________________________



I hope all of you that agree with me will be able to offer more examples of how USA and ISRAEL are state sponsors of terror. Let this Forum Thread be a documentation of the Terror the USA and ISRAEL support.

Many will disagree with us and their responses to this thread will show the true control the enemy has over our fellow countrymen and friends of the world. Don't let this bring us down into a discussion on their level. If they cannot understand the truth, let us show them with the words of many, not cry foul their words as the will no doubt ours.

Long Live the Resistance.




EDIT: TITLE

[edit on 11-3-2005 by 00PS]
*fixed caps lock word in title*

[edit on 11-4-2005 by dbates]




posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:58 AM
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By that argument, you need to add every other nation on the planet to that list.

Canada for example can be added for the dispersion of cows with Mad Cow desease, targeting soft targets worldwide.

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Russia, China, Japan, Germany, Australia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, etc, etc... ALL of these countries, every country for that matter, has met at least one condition on that list.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:05 AM
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Question, since you claim to be an American that has moved to China:
Does China support and sanction terror and terrorist or is it also simply a terrorist sponsoring nation?

Opppppssss, forgot, you wanted to concentrate specifically on the US and Israel. Agenda driven, aren't you?





seekerof



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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This is a good post OOPS I agree totally.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Did you change the title? Thats kind of ODD. Your anti USA agenda is clear as day.

Notice EVERY example given states "backed by" or "On the payroll", but not one instance is actually done by an American or Israeli?? Mmmm....

[edit on 11-3-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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Yes I did change the title. The other one was more formal and this one is more suiting I think. I think you should understand peoples perspectives before you judge their positions too.

We must realize that those who are the backers of a war on terror are in fact the most successful executioners of terrorist strategy.

Have you ever heard of the School of the Americas (SOA)

Its a terror shool. You see the developing countries in the world have terror camps and terror bases, but the USA has actual colleges for it.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by 00PS
Yes I did change the title. The other one was more formal and this one is more suiting I think. I think you should understand peoples perspectives before you judge their positions too.

We must realize that those who are the backers of a war on terror are in fact the most successful executioners of terrorist strategy.

Have you ever heard of the School of the Americas (SOA)

Its a terror shool. You see the developing countries in the world have terror camps and terror bases, but the USA has actual colleges for it.


My problem with your post, and topic, is that you are omitting every other nation on the planet. All of which can generate lists very simular to the one you posted. That is your anti American/Israeli agenda showing. Not one nation on this planet has a clean closet, not one. But your focus is on a couple of them, that shows an agenda. You in China? Give me a few minutes and I am certain I can fill twice as much regarding your nation.

Those who live in glass houses...

[edit on 11-3-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Sorry, I'm American. You should look at Seekerof's post more carefully, so you see China is not 'my' nation.

I am Focusing on USA & ISRAEL because it is not reported in the mainstream media of their Heinous Crimes. We should therefore seek to educate our brothers and sisters in attempt to 'deny ignorance'.

You could speak about almost any country in the world who has committed acts of terror. However we are not just merely stating the USA and ISRAEL have committed acts of terror. I am stating that the USA and ISRAEL are (implies currently) State Sponsors of Terror.

I would like members to contribute to this thread by posting more examples of how these 2 nations are sponsors and if there are those who disagree we respond in a compassionate manner that helps to educate them, not cry foul that others disagree with us.

EDIT: Response to 'edit' above, I don't know what you mean by glass houses. And my 'focus' is your problem with my thread but my investigative 'focus' shouldn't imply I am anti anything. Thanks

[edit on 11-3-2005 by 00PS]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Question, since you claim to be an American that has moved to China:
Does China support and sanction terror and terrorist or is it also simply a terrorist sponsoring nation?


Well, it seems as though Washington would like to put the past behind them and count on China as an Ally in the WOT. China too gains from this position as it is allowed to sqelch activists in the UAR (Uigher Autonomous Region AKA China's Muslims in XingJiang Province).

Would China fit the description of the defintions above, I'll leave you to answer your own question on that one as I do have an agenda here and yes it is to focus on USA and Israel... Thanks



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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I have read many of your post on ATS and you do have an agenda. You are always looking for ways to attack or discredit America. You say that you are an American and if this is the case then I as an American Veteran of a foriegn War say that it is your right to have such opinions. I do not agree with you or your personal agenda against the USA but I defend your right to say it. You say America is a sponsor of state terrorism. Sadly I have to admit that you are correct in some respects. But as it has been pointed out on this thread the USA is not alone in this endeavor. You know much was made during the American Indian Wars about how the Indians scalped their victims and would wear the dried scalps on their belts or attached to their war lances. What isn't mentioned is that the French are the ones that taught the Indians this neat little trick. My Point? To survive one must adapt to their surroundings especially in combat. So what if America partakes in covert actions
We did not teach the world terrorism. It is like this, everyone has an agenda, just as you do against your own country. America does and will continue to do what it has too for survival.
I as an American citizen and a Veteran demand no less. Our enemies are numerous and do not play by any set rules. Just as the Indians learned from the french so to has America learned. So if you are going to lay out America's trangressions against the World then lay out the Worlds transgressions against America. Look at it fairly and not with such a slanted view. You will then find most people on ATS will be more willing to debate the issues with you. Your obvious disdain for your country of birth
screams out clearly on all of your post. The world is not a perfect place nor is it even close. You could not throw a dart at a Map of the world without hitting a country who's taken part in the state run terrorism of some degree.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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I wish I could throw that dart out and live in that place. But it can't be found.

I am a youth who struggles daily with the fact that in a world able to be peaceful and fair to all classes we are still at war with eachother and plagued with crisis caused by humans.

In fact I am American and would love my country if she would stand up and be as glorious as she ought to be but she doesn't. She sit downs and sticks her foot out tripping others on their way up all the while saying they're the only ones who stand up for the righetous and moral values mankind should adhere to.

Both of my grandfathers are veterans of WWII. One of them was going to go to the WTO protests with me. He is sick of the way his country has changed. Sadly he didn't go. He bowed to the sentiment the country put on people like me - as Anti American as Traitors and as Opposite to the American people.

This is not true but a misconception born out of misunderstanding. I am 100% for America. For a great America. But the America we have now is not the America we all want. To get to that place, that country and that world we have to start acknowledging where the lies are.

I do have an agenda and to some it does sadly revolve around pointing out America's errors. He should accept them with humility and envision a brighter day and work towards that!



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Intersting post its good you posted your facts.....mabye you would continue with other countries?
We british have much blood on our hands that many dont know about....concentration camps,genocide,rape and slavery.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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It is true that the US has supported terrorist groups - read up on the tactics used by the Contras in Nicaraugua - it's hard to call them anything but terrorists, they targeted civilians as a matter of routine. Look at the violent overthrow of the democratically elected government of Salvador Allende in Chile.

Similarly where do you think the Palestinian's learned terror tactics? From the Israelis, read up on the Irgun, the Stern Gang, the bombing of the King David Hotel. The Israeli's bitching about terrorism is more than a little bit hypocritical, considering how instrumental terrorist tactics were in the founding of the Israeli state.

On "patriotism": "My country right or wrong" is phony patriotism, fascistic absolute loyalty to the State. Real patriots are those that seek to make sure that America lives up to the ideals it is supposed to stand for, not the idiots that wave flags and shout down dissidents every time the government does something abysmally stupid or unethical. If there are "traitors" in our midst they are those who would replace our democratic, pluralistic society with one that demands absolute obedience and uniformity of belief. And looking around, it seems to me these traitors are winning.

[edit on 11-3-2005 by xmotex]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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I don't see the point in continuing with other countries right now. I think USA and ISRAEL can be focused on because all the time the US Media is focusing on other countries, never itself and its Allies.

There are countless countries, oddly many of them are developing nations, why not talk about the developed nations that are state sponsors of terror?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex

On "patriotism": "My country right or wrong" is phony patriotism, fascistic absolute loyalty to the State. Real patriots are those that seek to make sure that America lives up to the ideals it is supposed to stand for, not the idiots that wave flags and shout down dissidents every time the government does something abysmally stupid or unethical. If there are "traitors" in our midst they are those who would replace our democratic, pluralistic society with one that demands absolute obedience and uniformity of belief. And looking around, it seems to me these traitors are winning.



Welcome to ATS, sadly you will find many of these 'traitors' you speak of here. I am constantly attacked as Anti American and I can understand how they see me. You stated the truth very well thank you!

[edit on 11-3-2005 by 00PS]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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This is an official hijacking of your thread. From now on I will post examples of other nations exhibiting state sponsored terrorism. And that’s MY AGENDA.

First up:

CHINA,

BBC reports:
Taiwan's President, Chen Shui-bian, has described China's threats against his island as a form of terrorism. "The terror and threat posed to Taiwan's people has virtually exceeded those brought by any terrorist attacks," Mr Chen said….

Cato.org reports:
"For years, China has exported sensitive military technology to countries that have been sponsors of terrorism. Recipients of such sales include Iran, Iraq and Syria..."

falungong.org reports
"Chinese Government Official Sued in Spain for Crimes of Torture and Genocide. ...During Jia Qinglin's tenure in office, innumerable atrocities were committed against Falun Gong practitioners. Deaths included that of Wang Lixuan, a mother, and her 8-month old son who together were tortured to death. He is also directly responsible for the illegal detention of countless Falun Gong practitioners in Beijing...."

And on and on and on...



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by 00PS

7. One who facilitates a massacre of civilians -- unless the victims are 900 Palestinians shot and hacked to death in the Sabra and Shatila camps by Lebanese Christian militia as Israeli soldiers stood guard, in which case Israel’s then-Defense Minster (now Prime Minister) Ariel Sharon remains a U.S. “War on Terrorism” ally after being censured as indirectly responsible for the massacre by an Israeli commission of inquiry.



Asides from the nice format of the post - It seems to be Chompsky (or should I say Chumpsky) style crap.

What was missed out was that Sharon was forced to resign then and was found indirectly responsible by not expecting the massacre to be performed by the Christians following the assassination of the Lebanese Christian PM.

That aside, What Iranian, Syrian or Palestinian gov't official was forced to resign for state-sponsored terrorism? As you put it.

It seems that in the Arab world successful terrorist actions where civilians (children in a school bus) are targeted gets you a promotion.

Get off it already - its old cliche without much substance.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Skippy,

If you are going to 'officially' hijack this thread can you give us all something to work with? My suggestion...USA & ISRAEL are 'developed' countries so to say of the 'western' world.

Can you give some examples of other Western Countries that are Developed who are State Sponsors of terror? Or are you more interested in only showing non-western developing countries are state sponsors of terror?

I have neither the will or the time to debate with you, in fact there is no debate you are just talking about something totally different. What is your point? To show everyone that ISRAEL and USA are not alone in their actions? Then can you answer me this question...Why are they alone in the fact they don't get media coverage of their atrocities?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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I just think it's funny how we think here in america We can have any weapons we want to protect us from the world but the rest of the world is not to have them even if they have them for the same reasons. We should be aloud to dictate to a country how they run they're government because we're us and we know what is best for everyone. We need to stop acting like the only country that matters and start looking at things from the other side that is what I think this post is about this country saying that country is supporting terrorists they all have supported terrorist so how can we use that to invade countries?



[edit on 11-3-2005 by Kramthenothing]

[edit on 11-3-2005 by Kramthenothing]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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JudahMaccabbi

It's not Arab states, it's everwhere. It's in USA and ISRAEL.
Sharon is the head of Israel, he's a terrorist.
USA officials who have been accused of supporting state
terror have been promoted too. It's not just Arabs.

How can you be so un-knowledgeable about this.



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