Covid-19: definitely a conspiracy

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: face23785

You're not thinking.

You're comparing the global death rate for one illness to the death rate in a specific country

I've looked at the data both regionally and globally, as it happens.

That's called thinking.

I suggest you re-read my post, and forget that I mentioned CNN. I'm certain you're capable of understanding the point, maybe the CNN part just threw you into a defensive mode and you shut off the thinking side of your brain. Pretend I insulted Fox, I bet you suddenly get it.

Stop being a dick and look at the situation instead of politicizing it on ATS.

This is real.

Stop being a dick and read to comprehend instead of just getting defensive because your heroes in the media were called out for being misleading.

The fact that Gupta works for CNN isn't even the point, but it's all you can see.

Comparing the U.S. death rate for one virus to the global death rate of another virus makes no logical sense, no matter who did it. And if you weren't being so defensive you'd be able to understand that point. It's not particularly complicated.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

If you were a doctor or nurse in a medium or large US town right now, you would be counting up the number of ventilators, negative pressure rooms, and ICU beds again in your head... Maybe you have a couple hundred on a slow day. Right now you are at 70-percent capacity. Maybe a bit more or less. If the numbers of sick surge too far past the number of vents and the number of ICU beds you have at the ready... You lose.

If that happens in enough towns and cities, civilization as you know it just went up in smoke and even if you live through it, you can now die from bubonic plague.

The only conspiracy here is how bad the news is at explaining that to the general public.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I am curious about what other points you thought would create mass panick.

And playing this to solely the media is cheap. The fear mongering on social media is way higher from the start and if this all blows over like a wet fart and people get pointed to the social media influences creating the panick of the panick the people themselves might request a restriction of freedom of speech. Just as easy as they impose a totalitarian state on themselves now.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

The only conspiracy here is how bad the news is at explaining that to the general public.

But, you know, you can't question the media, otherwise that's an assault on freedom of the press, or something.

The media are awful, and have been since long before Trump. Their complete failure to do their Constitutionally protected diligence is much more dangerous than anything Trump says about them.

originally posted by: Dumbass
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I am curious about what other points you thought would create mass panick.

And playing this to solely the media is cheap. The fear mongering on social media is way higher from the start and if this all blows over like a wet fart and people get pointed to the social media influences creating the panick of the panick the people themselves might request a restriction of freedom of speech. Just as easy as they impose a totalitarian state on themselves now.

The difference is social media is largely driven by a small percentage of the population. On Twitter, for instance, a very small minority cause most of the "outrage" about this week's biggest injustice. Most people don't give a #, they just use it to watch funny videos and whatnot. Legacy media is still driving the fear, social media is just helping it along for a small percentage of the population.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: face23785

You're not thinking.

You're comparing the global death rate for one illness to the death rate in a specific country

I've looked at the data both regionally and globally, as it happens.
That's called thinking.

Accurate analysis of data interpretation is actually a science; unlike looking at numbers and then having a *thoughtful* Hallmark moment.

a reply to: face23785

I see ATS as social media as well. And I do not know many people myself that see legacy old school media as their main source of information.

I'm not talking about the "news" for lack of better terms. I'm talking about the free and easy sharing of information.

originally posted by: Asgaard
Don't forget the 'Yellow Vests' in France. The Farmers and Construction Sector in the Netherlands. The recent 'Yellow Vests' farmers in Spain. Possible more I'm unaware of, or just not remembering. A LOT of governments were having an issue with massive protests going on.

It's either; Supervirus that destroys all; Kickstarting of the totalitarian police-states; Economic reset - Or all in one nice elite-approved package.

This also crossed my mind, the timing is very convenient. But to this to be true it would mean that EVERY country in the world is in alliance behind the scenes. It would be to huge. Unless the CCP entered into panic mode because of Hong Kong and seeing that the new generation of Chinese were waking up and rejecting the CCP. The rest of the governments might just be seizing up the opportunity, a gift from CCP.

But if this was released by China on purpose, then it was a risky move, because it might back-fire and, it seems it has, not only internally, but internationally.

I am sure the world will not be the same after this, I think a lot have realized that taking most of our jobs to one country was a bad move, not to mention the threat that the CCP made to USA about the medicines, this will awaken even more people to want to bring back the industries that were outsourced to China. Or at least some countries and enterprises might start looking into other countries to invest, like India maybe. If this happens and China did all of this on purpose, than we might be seeing the bigest most epic back fire in history to this date IMHO.

Back to what you were saying about other countries having mass protests:

In South America we have/had a lot of mass protests going on.

Most of Bolivia got tired of his president, soon to be dictator (Evo Morales), mass protests also there, he had to resign and flee to Mexico (I wonder why he didn't flee to Venezuela, to the paradise his friend has? (I know why, it's a rhetorical question)).

Venezuela, well, everyone knows what is happening there.

Honduras was under protests because of some economic health issues and IIRC also education issues.

Colombia also went into protests after they saw what was happening in Chile.

In Chile at least 86% went into the street in a massive never before seen protest in Chile, everywhere in the country, even small towns of no more than 100 people. (Stop reading here if you do not want to read what happened, next is the Long Version). We even managed to get a plebiscite to see if we want to change the constitution. Note: We are protesting against ALL politicians: communist, socialist, the right, the center, the independent, EVERYONE, and we do not want communism. The government went into panic mode, curfew ensued, human rights violation were made (rape to both women and men, torture, murder, sexual assault to both women and men, etc.) even the police shot protesters with rubber bullets to their face, to date more than 400 people lost 1 eye, 2 lost both. Tear gas bulllets were shot directly into people, some hae died because of this.
Even though a lot of people do not know, Chile is important in the international economic scene. The dictator Pinochet together with Chicago Boys implemented neoliberalism (tip, even capitalism seems like socialism when to compared to this Sh**) and a pension system (thought out by the brother of the current president), we are basically a laboratory. We have a pension system that a lot of governments want to implement (tip, do NOT let them, it's a scam), we are the only country in the world that water is privately owned. Even 7 families stole the Chilean ocean for themselves with a law. I really think that TPTB (not only the Chilean power that be) do not want to see that the system enforced on us to fail. 50% of people earn less than USD$500 per month and our country is more expensive than the USA in a lot of products and almost as expensive as European countries, even some prices are higher than in Europe.

Yep, 2019 was a very difficult year for our dictators... sorry politicians...

a reply to: redpassion

I am sure the world will not be the same after this

Some things were not same after the AIDS crisis. But most were.

a reply to: Phage

Yes, HIV had a social change and also an impact in the economy, specially in Africa. But this time the issue is that a lot of experts are realizing that depending on 1 single country for our manufacturing is not a good idea. Most of all, now they have a real perfect excuse/example of why it isn't a good idea. (Yes, we had experts and politicians asking for the return of industries back home before this happened).

Yet, we have had pandemics before (Spanish flu, Black Death) and things didn't change that much, that I know of.

So yea, maybe nothing will change. But I would like to see a change, like governments and enterprises to start bringing back the industries lost to China for instance. Also I do not want to speak for Chinese, but if most of them want it, I would also like to see a change in China in favor of what ever the people want.

a reply to: redpassion

So yea, maybe nothing will change.

That's not what I said.

The global economy is what it is for a reason. Capitalism. Competition. The US cannot compete in some markets, primarily because of labor costs. So, the US must find other markets in which to compete (or reduce labor costs). Don't blame the suppliers, if you must blame someone, blame the consumers for demanding low cost products.

I have to admit there was something about all this that bothered me. Well, there were a lot of things, but not like this.

While still running for POTUS, bloomberg said he would deny medical care to anyone over 80 years old if they fell ill. "They would be sent home to let nature take its course." I thought that was a pretty crappy thing to say considering the decent thing to do is care for anyone in need, regardless of age. The Hippocratic oath has something to say about that as well.

Now, in Italy, the exact same thing is happening. If you are 80 or older you will not receive treatment and are basically left to die on your own. I don't believe Italy and bloomberg are the only ones thinking this way.

Many nations now find it necessary to embark on rigid austerity programs to find a financial way forward that does not involve insolvency. One of the biggest problems for many nations, and states for that matter, is the growing number of pensioners - the elderly.

Bloomberg said he would do this before covid-19 hit. Italy is doing it now because hospital beds are at a premium. Yet China managed to build several 1000+ bed hospitals in just ten days. I have to believe Italy could do the same if they wanted to. They just don't seem to want to.

Is this a way to start the ball rolling on getting rid of the most expensive citizens in terms of financial aid while thinning out the herd? Once the covid-19 threat is over will the 80 and over policy of no health care remain? Governments have shown genuine tenacity when it comes to letting go of a revenue source or saving plan. I remember quite a few toll booths that were supposed to be torn down when the construction bonds were paid for. That was decades ago and now there are more toll booths than ever. That money was supposed to fix the roads and fund the school system. We had to close schools. We started the lottery which was supposed to fill the gaps and fund the school system. We had to close schools. Now we sell marijuana which is supposed to fill the gaps and fund the school system. What are the odds it will work this time?

As it stands now, government ideally wants us to work until we are 70 before collecting our social security or pensions, then we are supposed to die at 80 if we get sick. Limiting social security and pensions to ten years max would save a whole lot of money for governments struggling to cope with rising costs and a less then enthusiastic new generation of workers contributing to the till. Is this how the current crop of politicians plan to save social security? I know bernie says he will expand social security - but bernie is an idiot who has no plan whatsoever to pay for his promises.

And if, by some miracle, the general population is okay with the death at 80 scheme how long will it be before someone says, "Great news! You can now take your pension and social security at 65 - but you will be denied healthcare at 70."

And so on...

1) Create panic to distract people from the derivate market schemes being the cause of the financial collapse
2) Kill off some elderly to lessen weight on the pension funds
3) Celebrate victory and laugh over the panicking sheep
4) Create a toilet paper deficit just for the lulz

It's starting to look like the 2nd theory is the real reason behind this reaction. Earlier today it was reported that researchers here in Australia discovered some drugs that seemed to work well for treating Coronavirus and they asked for trials. It seems they got what they asked for and trials are now taking place. The interesting thing however is that one of the drugs used is a common HIV medication:

One of the two medications is a HIV drug, which has been superseded by “newer generation” HIV drugs, and the other is an anti-malaria drug called chloroquine which is rarely used and “kept on the shelf now” due to resistance to malaria.

“Our doctors were very, very surprised that a HIV drug could actually work against the novel coronavirus and there was a bit of scepticism,” he said.

“That first wave of Chinese patients we had (in Australia), they all did very, very well when they were treated with the HIV drug.

Coronavirus Australia: Queensland researchers find ‘cure’, want drug trial

I also did some digging and may have found the article from Spain that The2Billies was referring to. The story is dated February 2nd so it would seem possible governments and media have known about this for a while. I don't think we know for sure yet if it has long term effects like HIV but it's better to play it safe, which explains the extraordinary response from governments. Here is a portion of the article put through Google translate, btw SARS-CoV-2 is essentially another name for Covid-19, meaning Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2.

An experimental treatment, based on one of the most used drugs against AIDS for more than a decade, has been the option chosen by the doctors of the Virgen del Rocío hospital in Seville to successfully treat the first case of contagion registered in Spain in the SARS-CoV-2 (Miguel Ángel Benítez, 62 years old). This is the application of lopinavir / ritonavir, also used to prevent HIV, together with interferon beta, a protein that helps cells not be infected, according to health sources confirmed to EL PAÍS.
...
Santiago Moreno, head of infectious diseases at the Ramón y Cajal hospital (Madrid) explains that "the SARS-CoV-2 protease is very similar to that of HIV." "This enzyme is essential for the virus to replicate. The combination of lopinavir and ritonavir inhibits it and blocks HIV. The results that we know so far of its use against the coronavirus are encouraging, "he says.

Interferon beta, the other drug used in Seville, has a different mechanism of action. It is one of the so-called signaling proteins that naturally occur in human cells when they are infected by a virus. "The goal is to alert other cells, thus developing greater resistance to infection," says Bosch. Some Wuhan hospitals have also used the treatment used in Virgen del Rocío for coronavirus patients, according to several communications published in scientific journals, although again "the evidence on its effectiveness is scarce," experts say.

Un fármaco contra el sida tiene éxito en la cura del primer contagio por coronavirus

People are so incapable of critical thought that we deserve to crash the economy , unemploy millions overnite and destroy the financial system faster than ever

Every damn day people die,most are elderly and thou sad it’s part of life . The world is stopping for something that has killed 8,000 people out of 7 billion and this is rationalized by idiots who have no clue what daily death rates look like every year ...every day. It’s like it’s imagined that 80 us at deaths are worth a global depression ....250 a day froM flu during season

The death rate appears to me closer to 5x the flu because nobody is capturing even a moderate amount of the mild cases, they can’t bc they are saving even the hospital visits for the severe cases

We will probably peak at 1000 deaths a day, on a severe flu season we see 500 and nobody bats an eye,now everyone is a humanitarian bc it’s on the news. People are such sheep. The biggest problem is they have NO idea how dangerous the economic effects are , elderly people sadly die, they do every day of every year and this is where corona targets, the dangers to the hundreds of millions of people economically and financially are much more dangerous as well as the financial system unraveling and faster THAN ever . We almost deserve it for being ignorant of the dangers of the “medicine” b bu but the tv doesn’t tell us to worry about that ... right ok.

If one were to look at the daily death totals of every age group daily before this crisis and after you Wouldn’t be able to see a change . A blip on the radar and if responding to this blip didn’t cause pain and hardship for at least a hundred million Americans you would have more room to do “whatever it takes “ but it’s not a move done w out tremendous suffering


I can’t upload the chart of average daily deaths in USA but it’s 7800-8200 on average every day of every month .

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful. You could carry to someone else. Don't only think about your self.

I have posted this in other threads.....

I can't help but think that the TPTB are spreading information in way that causes an unprecedented reaction.

Annual Influenza:
Frequency 3–5 million severe cases per year
Deaths: Up to 650,000 respiratory deaths per year

Annual Cancer Numbers
Frequency 90.5 million
Deaths 8.8 million
Average five year survival 66%

Nearly 1.25 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.

I ask you, is there propaganda at work here on this one ?

People live and die from disease every single day and older people naturally die the most because their immune system is weaker.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Trump might think that he is immune to the virus because he is used to never being held accountable for his mistakes. He thinks he is invincible. But that is simply not true.

You almost had me...until you had to bring up the president. One person in a world of 7.5 Billion people. Why do so many people try to make a VIRUS and people dying political? I just don't get it. Isn't their a couple POLITICAL forums that can be used to blame this Pandemic on the President of the United States?

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful. You could carry to someone else. Don't only think about your self.

Yes, just like every other virus that exists. Of course if I did get sick I would stay inside and minimize contact with other people just like any other time I get sick. But to say the entire world should lock themselves inside over a virus which is comparable in severity to other common viruses is beyond ridiculous and will result in far more suffering than it prevents. Just because something sounds altruistic doesn't make it logical or the right thing to do. Obviously we should be concerned about older people but that is hardly a valid excuse to stop the world spinning. The panic only makes sense if there's something the public isn't being told, and if you read my last post you'll see that's exactly what I'm starting to believe.

But for the sake of argument lets just assume there's no link to HIV and the only symptoms are the ones we already know of. Covid-19 hasn't killed a single child and seems to have the least effect on them, whereas common stomach bugs like Norovirus kill up to 800 kids a year just in the US. The fact that kids seem almost immune to Covid-19 and it kills mainly old people suggests to me that the symptoms themselves are relatively tame and I would almost guarantee the fatality rate for Norovirus in people over 70 is higher than Coronavirus because the symptoms are far worse. In times like these the media usually does their best to calm people and reduce panic, the fact they're not tells me something else is going on.

Out of nearly 45,000 confirmed cases in China through Feb. 11, there was only one death in someone younger than 20, and no deaths among children younger than 10, according to CNN.

“The evidence so far would suggest that children, at least in China, many children have gotten and have ... either had a very mild illness or not had any illness at all,” Dr. Arthur Reingold, an epidemiologist at the University of California at Berkeley, told CNN.

“Children simply don’t get very sick when they get this infection,” Reingold added. “So if they develop any symptoms at all, they’re mild ... and so, severe illnesses and deaths, fortunately, are incredibly rare.”

Are kids immune to coronavirus? Scientists say children show surprising resistance to COVID-19--but could still be spreading it

For many infectious diseases young children are most at risk. We see this for malaria: the majority of deaths (57% globally) are in children under five years of age. The same was true for the largest pandemic in recorded history: During the ‘Spanish flu’ in 1918 it was primarily children and young adults who died from the pandemic (we write more about this in the article here).

For the COVID-19 cases in China the opposite seems to be true, at least based on the information available at the time of writing. The elderly are at the greatest risk of dying if infected with this virus.

Based on the data from China – shown in the visualization – 14.8% of those who are 80 years and older who were infected by COVID-19 died as a result. As explained above, these figures represent the share of people diagnosed as having the disease who die from it. This does not represent the share of people in the entire population who die from it.

Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) – Statistics and Research

I do not think there is consipracy, but there could be one, since Chinese were slow and probably not sincere on number of cases, slow to respond etc.
But the rest of the wolrd could react faster. And it did not. I was thinking at first, that there was someone behind all of this.But if someone planted the virus, anyone, sooner or later it would backfire. Unless they had a cure. Otherwise the wolrd would spiral out and you would need a lot of computing power to simulate te outcome to this one as there are still many unknown things regarding each country reserves on all equipment etc.
When the dollar colapses including the rest of the market, who will gain most? Most of the things including raw materials are produced in China, raw material is also in Russia, but they both have many cases....But China is going to win in the end, due to their sheer manufacturing power and their numbers.
Anyway, here is a video regarding your own protection against covid-19. I would suggest you guys to check it
www.youtube.com...