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China arrests more than 800,000 people for state security reasons.

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posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Nothing from the UN on this.
Nothing from Amnesty International on this.

Must be whats going on in the Middle East, in regards to the US involvement that has their attention, huh?



Thousands of dissidents are jailed every year for allegedly endangering state security by engaging in pro-democracy activities or publishing essays on the internet that are seen as subversive.

Tibetan monks and Xinjiang Muslims in northwest China who advocate independence are often targeted by Chinese authorities as terrorists, separatists or religious extremists.

Clergymen and laity from underground Christian communities are also arrested for “endangering public order”.

Opposition to China's communist leadership is growing though, as a stark lack of economic opportunities among the country's 800 million rural dwellers becomes increasingly evident, raising fears of social unrest and turmoil.

China arrests more than 800,000 people for endangering state security

China has some serious internal social problems going on and many here talk and point at the US and the vaunted Patriot Act I and II?!? Freedoms are being taken away? My rights are being violated and suspended?! Get a grip and take a real dose of reality and see what "freedom" and 'rights" equate to in China, k?



Currently, 68 crimes can merit the death penalty in China and most are non-violent. Experts had called for a "kill fewer, kill carefully" policy towards suspects of non-violent crimes, state media said in August.

In a second report to parliament on Wednesday, China's top prosecutor, Jia Chunwang, said more than 800,000 people were arrested for corruption last year.

Tens of thousands had been convicted in cases of embezzlement or dereliction of duty, avoiding potential economic losses of an estimated 4.56 billion yuan ($551 million), Jia said.

China hints at death penalty reform

As for those Tibetans, despite so-called multiple Chinese claimed "progress," seems things are still the same?
China and the genocide of Tibet: Left-wing hypocrites attack Bush while ignoring China's genocide of Tibet
Chinese Torture Tibetan Prisoners, Says Monk
52 years of Chinese occupation of Tibet

And lastly, WARNING: Link contains graphic, offensive, and shocking pictures: (and in Chinese)
Set One
Set Two

But please, lets continue to focus on how screwed America is and how our freedoms and rights are disappearing, being taken away, etc. or how America has such a dismal Human Rights record, etc., k?!

*shakes head*






seekerof




posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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Wait, wait, wait.

So your argument is "Look at China, they violate heaps of human rights, why can't we violate human rights just a little"?

-------

Muslim extremists do exist in China, that's why the US government also lists them as Terrorists (East Turkestan Islamic Movement).

Heck, they even blow up MacDonalds in China.

-------

Also, your Chinese websites only point to criminals being executed.

Unless, i'am mistaken greatly, the US also commits capital punishment, correct?

[edit on 10-3-2005 by rapier28]

[edit on 10-3-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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So let's get out of the Middle East and provoke China into invading Taiwan. Then we got a real "just" war at our hands...

America doesn't need to fight anyone. But just to be pro-war for a moment, the guy we should be fighting is China. Not anybody in the Middle East. That place is best left untouched.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
So let's get out of the Middle East and provoke China into invading Taiwan. Then we got a real "just" war at our hands...

America doesn't need to fight anyone. But just to be pro-war for a moment, the guy we should be fighting is China. Not anybody in the Middle East. That place is best left untouched.


And what Monica?

Bin Laden is going to go, hey US are gone, let's celebrate?!

You undervalue the cause of the Middle East. Middle Eastern wars have always only being about one commodity. US will need to be there as long as that commodity is needed.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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It's all propaganda....

USA and CHINA are pals..... China is the production center of the world. No one is going to tell China what it can and cannot do.

If you think I'm wrong, give me an example when the world made China do anything? Ok then...

They are just trading slaps. Last week or the week before, before the meeting of the peoples congress in Beijing, the PRC sent out a report on US human rights abuses *which there are many* Not just against muslims, but political prisoners in our own jails! So now the US wants to slap them back.

It's all for the poltics and money, not to educate us on rights abuses...that's why we call it

propaganda.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Seekerof
The quoted number struck me as odd, and it took me a while to figure out why. Now I remember.

800k people arrested for political reasons in China
800k children go missing each year in the US alone.

So which is the bigger problem? The latter in my opinion, but it's considered business as usual by the UN and the US.

Don't mean to dillute the point of your thread, I just thought the numerical corrolary was worth mentioning.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 12:05 AM
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Wow Seeker, I gotta give you credit for tracking those pics down. An eye-opening look at capital punishment chinese-style. Those pics are SICK! The look in that woman's eyes is chilling! I won't be able to scrub those images out of my brain for the rest of my life. I guess that's a good thing.

The sick thing about that execution series you linked to is that there are kids standing right there, watching those people get their heads blown off. Gruesome.

But then, don't we all know that China is a screwed-up country? They never had free speech anyway. To point at them and say "Look how bad it could be" is a good exercise but how does it relate to the removal of our rights here in the USA?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
But please, lets continue to focus on how screwed America is and how our freedoms and rights are disappearing, being taken away, etc. or how America has such a dismal Human Rights record, etc., k?!


Wait, so is this a diversionary tactic to take focus off the US problems? Maybe we, as American citizens, should pay no attention to the problems our country has because others are worse? Sorry, but there is a serious fault of logic here.

Last time I checked, at least I was capable of denouncing not only the United States' means, but others around the world as well. Honestly, do you think we should not attempt to resolve the US' problems because there are worse de facto governments in the world?


[edit on 11-3-2005 by Jamuhn]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Dude, just a few years ago the US was averaging 760,000 marijuana related arrests a year. That's just for smoking some weed. I fail to see your point other than demonize a culture you probably have a poor understanding of.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Kind of a misleading thread title. I was expecting the arrest of 800,000 people and find out that was the total for one year.

What is the arrest total in the United States and how does it relate to this number?

I have lived and worked in both communism and capitalist countries, and as far as I can tell, they are the same. If you have the money you are "free" to travel where you want. It's the money and not the system that cages you in.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Wow Seeker, I gotta give you credit for tracking those pics down. An eye-opening look at capital punishment chinese-style. Those pics are SICK! The look in that woman's eyes is chilling! I won't be able to scrub those images out of my brain for the rest of my life. I guess that's a good thing.


I found it difficult that a country who practices capital punishment can critisize another who also practices capital punishment.

It's the most obvious example of the pot calling the kettle black.

So you think that just because you use lethal injection, that makes you more "humane"?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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So you think that just because you use lethal injection, that makes you more "humane"?

Whoa there, I'm not defending capital punishment. I'm just saying that it's always a good thing to see images that are political and disturbing. Seeing women led out into a field and shot is horrible but I'd rather know that it happens than to live in ignorance.

I agree with you, rapier28. I don't like capital punishment of any kind but these pictures (that are linked in Seeker's post) are horrific. As bad as the US is, we're a long way from shooting women en masse for political disobedience.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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Yes, firing squads are disturbing to say the least.


But it really comes down to a matter of cost. It's cheaper. China is introducing lethal injection gradually but the cost is huge. China's should also (and likely) to drop number of cases punishable by death. (things like corruption are all punishable by death)

Just to qualify, while China does execute political prisoners, they are not usually public executions. The women in those pictures is likely a normal criminal.

[edit on 11-3-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by rapier28

I found it difficult that a country who practices capital punishment can critisize another who also practices capital punishment.

It's the most obvious example of the pot calling the kettle black.

So you think that just because you use lethal injection, that makes you more "humane"?


Geez, the pictures I have seen of Australia show beautiful colors, yet it seems you only see in black and white.

There are things called "degrees" in everything humans do. Apparently you see no difference between a political dissident and mass murderer.

Look at it this way. If we treated people in the west the same way China does there would be 12 members here at ATS and the only topic of conversation would be old "X Files" reruns.

I understand how the members here seem to feel empty if the can't dis the good ol' USA in some way in every post, but your comparison does not hold water.

And to WyrdeOne, look more closely at your facts. Sure 800,000 children are reported missing in the US every year but only around 100 are murdered (still far to many, of course). The vast majority are short term runaways or victims of custody battles.


To date two such studies have been completed. The first National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children (NISMART-1) was released in 1990, and the second, known as NISMART-2, was released in October 2002. According to NISMART-2 research, which studied the year 1999, an estimated 797,500 children were reported missing; 58,200 children were abducted by nonfamily members; 115 children were the victims of the most serious, long-term nonfamily abductions called "stereotypical kidnappings"; and 203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.

According to a 1997 study by the State of Washington’s Office of the Attorney General “the murder of a child who is abducted ... is a rare event. There are estimated to be about 100 such incidents in the United States each year, less than one-half of one percent of the murders committed”; however, “74 percent of abducted children who are murdered are dead within three hours of the abduction.”



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Read my post above.

The women executed is a normal criminal, not a political dissident.

-----

I was just making the point that the post-911 world seems less inclined for human rights, which i think is absurd, even during World War 2, human rights weren't cast aside by western countries to this extent.

The most prominant example in Australia right now;

You recently returned M.Habib from Guantanamo Bay to us and it's pretty clear that he has being tortured in Egypt, after the US used "extraordinary rendition" to get him there. Just because your not doing the torture doesn't excuse you from the fact that the US sent him there to be tortured for information. In the end, it seems as if his innocent since the US didn't prosecute him.

-----

How do you expect to persuade other countries for human rights when we don't practice what we preach. I say we because it seems as if the Howard government knew about the torture and did nothing.

[edit on 11-3-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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SethBullock
And China doesn't execute all 800k, the vast majority are sent to work camps. The number of runaways, throwaways, and abused children in this country is abhorent to any thinking individual, the gutter rat communities in NY, LA, and IL need to be seen to be believed. Some estimates place the number of homeless living below Manhattan at 1 million. Check out under pegasus. I initially posted as an idle comparison of similar numbers, with no other goal than to raise an interesting numerical corolary.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by rapier28
The women executed is a normal criminal, not a political dissident.


Are you advocating the execution of common or normal criminals then?

It is disappointing that criticism is only reserved for the US or UK while the detention and execution of political dissidents (or common criminals as you indicate) is dismissed so easily. You noted earlier "So your argument is "Look at China, they violate heaps of human rights, why can't we violate human rights just a little"?" The question should be "why isn't their similar outrage against China" - is it racial, is someone afraid of offending the Chinese govt. or is it that no one cares about the average Chinese citizen?

This is not a matter of what's good for the goose is good for the gander - we should be holding all governments accountable for their actions and criticize/expose any and all evidence of human rights violations.

B.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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The point is, there is outrage against China.

I have never said that they shouldn't be criticism against China, but one thing is quite clear, Chinese human rights have improved in recent years, to deny that is wrong.

The Law is no longer practiced in kangaroo courts, and lower-mid ranking officials are starting to be held accountable. Are things still bad, sure there are. Compared to before, are there better, yes.

Should there be more changes in China, absolutely.

Areas in China that still need fixing.
1. Further separation of Judicial system from Party and State.
2. Separation of Party and State.
3. Freedom of press and expression.
4. Reform of death penalty, appeals process should be heard by the supreme court, not county courts. Less offences punishable by death.

I personally do not see the need for elections as great as the points above.


Originally posted by Bleys
Are you advocating the execution of common or normal criminals then?


The point i was making was that the US practices Capital Punishment as well as China. It's a difficult issue, my point of view is that we shouldn't do it but not because of religious grounds or otherwise.

My main grievance with Capital Punishment is that it will inevitably kill an innocent man or women. Therefore it shouldn't be practiced.


Originally posted by Bleys
It is disappointing that criticism is only reserved for the US or UK...


I never criticised the UK. The only thing i don't like about the UK is the weather and that damn pound exchange rate.



Originally posted by Bleys
is it racial, is someone afraid of offending the Chinese govt. or is it that no one cares about the average Chinese citizen?


The average Chinese citizen is not a political dissident. The average chinese citizen is a Joe Blow who works from 9-5, saves up to buy a unit (since land is scarce in cities), feeds his family, and plays Mahjong.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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So, we should all feel like we live in Oz because of whats happening in China?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by rapier28Unless, i'am mistaken greatly, the US also commits capital punishment, correct?


only murderers and it carried out rarely, you dont see the difference between killing political prisoners and regular criminals vs killing murderers?

not to mention we dont blow peoples heads off by the truck load either.

[edit on 11-3-2005 by namehere]




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