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Medicare for all

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posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:26 AM
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We see things in our lives that give us perspective.
Experience is something we gain and cannot be taught.

At the same time it's like some people never learn.

I was listening to the news on my way to work.
Apparently trump was suggesting a tax cut and the dems were saying he always thinks a tax cut is the answer.. Well they got that right.

Then the dems suggested free healthcare and food stamps. Etc etc etc.... As they always do..
They always want to spend with no clue how to pay for anything....

Basically both sides are full of crap and stuck in their ways with no apparent ability to learn or to much ego to admit maybe the other side has a good point occasionally.


All that and my mother in laws shoulder surgery have been weighing on my mind.
She is on Medicare and her copay from the hospital (parts not labor) was $350.. Not bad really when you consider the bill was $40k.......yeah...$40k..

A scalpel was $400..
A screw was $200..
Something else was $20k...

Anyways... The summary at the end showed that Medicare paid $5600 of the $40k bill and the rest was "adjusted"..... Meaning not ever to be paid.

Now this is where I have a problem with Obama care and the dems free insurance plan.
To me wouldn't it make more sense to repair the billing and insurance industries policies instead of just trying to pay the bill?
There is no way in Holy hell that a screw or a scalpel (disposable) should be billed at several hundred dollars.

Should are politicians not be looking into this crap first before just writing a check at the tax payers expense?


Opinions?




posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:30 AM
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Yeah, my arthroscopic came out to more, and then there was the anesthesia bill. I'm not complaining because we paid about 10% total in the end, but it's the crazy prices you see in the negotiating process that kill me. No one else in this country gets to barter over prices like the insurances companies and medical providers seem to be able to, and that's the problem.

If you or I tried to get into that game, do you think we'd be able to say, "No, we won't pay that price!" like the insurance providers (including government) get to?



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:32 AM
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The country has to have govt. employed doctors first. The low cost medical universities. Then price caps on everything. Then every resident must join the National Health Insurance plan. Your premium is determined by your yearly gross income. No deductible first then insurance kicks in (that is a scam) other then that people won't understand 45000 pages of restrictions that even the insurance companies don't know what are in them.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

The hospital I use is having contract disputes the anthem insurance.

www.wane.com...

All because the hospital charges to much..



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: musicismagic

You are exactly right.
We need to lower the costs before paying the bills



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: musicismagic

You said it there -- govt. employed doctors.

That's really what a certain political party wants out of socialized health care. They already have the teachers in their back pockets as a massive voting block, but medical would give them doctors and nurses, those unions, plus any others formed out of socialized health care. They have no interest at all in creating a quality system that takes of people. They very much care about creating those massive unions to launder money into election campaigns.

We've watched what has happened to our education system as a result. It has decayed in quality over time.

Health care would follow the same trajectory.

The other issue is that the US and its privatized health industry funds and supports a lot of the worlds medical innovation. Price caps and controls would necessarily kneecap that slowing the rate for the entire world.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: musicismagic

You are exactly right.
We need to lower the costs before paying the bills


One way to lower costs would be to remove the insurance industry and government from paying the bills. No middle men with deep pockets would necessarily put a downward pressure on pricing by putting it back into our pockets and what they can bear.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

YES! THIS!

The problem is not Democrats or Republicans, its the utter and total inflexibility of both sides that leaves us all screwed.

This struck a chord with me. Today someone posted something on FB about how coronavirus isn't bad and it's just the Democrats wanting to disrupt the election.

I think about all the countries that have zero to do with America that are struggling, (Italy for example) but no, conoranavirus is just to disrupt American's elections.

The reality is that it probably isn't the end of the world as some msm reports, and it's obviously not as mild as others would like to believe either. It is somewhere in the middle. Why is that reality so hard for some to grasp?



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: JAGStorm

Corona virus isn't as bad as the media rhetoric wants us to believe. It's a concern, but it's not even Spanish Flu, part deux. It's more like the flu epidemics of '57-'58 and '67-'68. Those were also bad, but not something so bad we couldn't live with them.

The press rhetoric has been panic inducing.

Just be careful and be ready to change your plans if needed. Otherwise, live on.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: musicismagic

You said it there -- govt. employed doctors.

That's really what a certain political party wants out of socialized health care. They already have the teachers in their back pockets as a massive voting block, but medical would give them doctors and nurses, those unions, plus any others formed out of socialized health care. They have no interest at all in creating a quality system that takes of people. They very much care about creating those massive unions to launder money into election campaigns.

We've watched what has happened to our education system as a result. It has decayed in quality over time.

Health care would follow the same trajectory.

The other issue is that the US and its privatized health industry funds and supports a lot of the worlds medical innovation. Price caps and controls would necessarily kneecap that slowing the rate for the entire world.



Well, you got some truth to what you said. But when you have govt university hospitals and they do research also, this keeps innovation at a very top level.
What I wrote seems to work well for this country, but for America, heck I don't know. I do know this, with out price controls the sky is the limit to what a hospital can try to charge and get away with. Here we have price controls and the same bed at a hospital in Tokyo will be the same cost across the nation (I believe this to be true) of course, we have private hospitals, but still they can only charge what the law allows. It gets complicated for me to explain, but the system is NOT perfect, but I feel they put health over profit here. Not always, but I feel that way.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: musicismagic

Not entirely true.

If a hospital wants to charge sky high prices, they can. But if the pricing is transparent, and there are plenty of hospitals, then sooner or later, another one will try to provide better service for less and that hospital will end up with more patients, more money.

I suppose the best example in the medical field I can think of here is lasik surgery. It has never been covered by insurance being deemed completely elective, and over time prices have come down to where it is affordable as more doctors have gotten into the field and the procedure has gotten more and more accessible through advances in equipment and technique. Sure. Docs can charge sky high prices, but there are so many who provide it that if one tries, he or she will quickly go out of business.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 09:48 AM
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edit on 10-3-2020 by JohnnyJetson because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

The problem thought that in some areas of the country, you are lucky to have one hospital close by..



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: musicismagic

You are exactly right.
We need to lower the costs before paying the bills


One way to lower costs would be to remove the insurance industry and government from paying the bills. No middle men with deep pockets would necessarily put a downward pressure on pricing by putting it back into our pockets and what they can bear.


Exactly. As long as there is a third party payer and the user of the service has no incentive to shop around, there will be no price discovery.

Dental care, plastic surgery, LASIK, and other elective surgeries and procedures are cheap because insurance is typically not involved and the patient is motivated to shop around. As a result, Doctors actually compete on price like any other service. The end result is low prices. You can get two new tattas, a big ole' butt, and fake blue eyes with 20/20 vision for like $10k.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

Full agreement.

I mean, I understand a screw made from some exotic alloy that isn't rejected by the body and never corrodes being expensive... but expensive is a relative term too. There has to be a point at which we say "enough!" The prices have to be something people can afford.

Unfortunately, insurance is involved. Every single industry which gets insurance involved always... always!... becomes more expensive than it should be. The people who have insurance don't care what something costs; they care only about what it costs them. So the providers raise their prices knowing that it won't affect their bottom line because the people who they are selling to don't care. Then the insurers, trapped because they have to pay the higher claims, raise their rates. People complain, but they're still not worried about the cost of the product, just the cost of the insurance premiums. And on it goes.

Then of course, the insurance companies resort to heavy-handed tactics... they start limiting what they will pay, but also requiring that the providers who accept them will not pass those costs on to their customers. But the providers don't want to lose money, so they just start charging other customers more; if they refuse the insurer's demands they lose those customers. That forces more people to buy insurance, and the cycle speeds up even more.

Does anyone else remember getting the car fixed for a reasonable cost? How about going to a body shop, getting the dents pulled out, and being able to pay it out of pocket? Maybe a vet who would offer a rabies shot for $3 a pop? And do it at your driveway? Appliances that weren't priced in the thousands of dollars? Oh, yeah, that was before comprehensive car repair insurance, auto insurance, pet insurance, and home appliance insurance...

The politicians are just doing what politicians do: they're playing to the masses. The masses don't care what medical costs are... they care what it costs them. They want relief from what it costs them, and to hell with what it costs the insurance companies. What we need, and desperately, is some educational foundation in simple economics. The rest will come easily if we ever manage to get that again.

Good thread OP.


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bluntone22

The problem thought that in some areas of the country, you are lucky to have one hospital close by..



What does that have to do with the cost of service?



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bluntone22

The problem thought that in some areas of the country, you are lucky to have one hospital close by..



What does that have to do with the cost of service?


It does have something to do with it. A lot of the smaller hospitals end up eating costs. Obamacare didn't help. A lot of health providers could only survive by networking and a lot of the rural providers had no nearby providers to network with.

In short, Obamacare forced out smaller providers of service on all sides. Less competition is never good.
edit on 10-3-2020 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I can understand some differences but the cost of a screw or a scalpel should be the same.



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 11:23 AM
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Please forgive my ignorance as I am not too familiar with your system down there but could the problem be that your medical system is set up as a "for profit" industry?



posted on Mar, 10 2020 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: QBSneak000

Most industries are for profit and they manage to get along just fine.

This has more to do with the insurance industry and the government being incompetent



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