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ABUSE CRISIS: Children Said Among Abu Ghraib Prisoners

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posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:12 PM
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According to documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union, prisoners as young as 8 years old were detained at the prison. The information was obtained under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking information on the scandal. The report of the 8 year old comes from a transcript by General Janis Karpinski, the former commander of the prison. It is unknown what happened to the 8 year old who was asking for his mother according to reports/
 



sfgate.com
Children held by the U.S. Army at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison included one boy who appeared to be only about 8 years old, the former commander of the prison told investigators, according to a transcript.

"He looked like he was eight years old. He told me he was almost 12," Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski told officials investigating prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib. "He told me his brother was there with him, but he really wanted to see his mother, could he please call his mother. He was crying."

Karpinski's statement is among hundreds of pages of Army records about Abu Ghraib the American Civil Liberties Union released Thursday. The ACLU got the documents under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking records about abuse of detainees in Iraq.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


There are also reports that a 17 year old was used to break his father and get him to talk. Further investigation really needs to be done here. The military has acknowledged that women and children were held at the prison in a seperate wing as it was felt that the facility was better than other lockups. My question is what exactly was the 8 year old charged with?




posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Interesting post. Great question. "What exactly was the 8 year old charged with?"


.

[edit on 10-3-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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It would have been more comforting to know that the US military and intelligence services were converting these torture chambers and hell holes into something else, as the foreign invasion forces and occupiers under the Bush administration had promised.

I cannot be convinced that the Abu Ghraib abuses were on the whim of a few stir crazy soldiers. Where are the initial couple of court-martialled officers serving time?



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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I dont think it matters what the 8 year old was there for... but why was he abused and mistreated... why are the US mistreating kids and using children to get informtation out of their parents.... disgusting i say... very typical of the US using dirty tactics in Iraq and undoubtedly elsewhere in the world too...

and you wonder why these people end up hating the west...



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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The Bush administration and its methods in Iraq are in no way representative of the USA, let alone an entire region labelled "the west". But you are right, little wonder...



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
I dont think it matters what the 8 year old was there for... but why was he abused and mistreated...




My sense is that's pretty much what FredT meant.






why are the US mistreating kids and using children to get informtation out of their parents.... disgusting i say... very typical of the US using dirty tactics in Iraq and undoubtedly elsewhere in the world too...

and you wonder why these people end up hating the west...




Most Americans do NOT condone that kind of "action." And as MA said, "Little wonder..."

format gremlin

[edit on 10-3-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow


Interesting post. Great question. "What exactly was the 8 year old charged with?"

[edit on 10-3-2005 by soficrow]


The key phrase here is "he appeared to be 8 years old".

There was nothing in the article that actually stated he was in fact only 8. In fact the General stated he told her he was 12, which means no one knows his actual age.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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I would like to point out that the article did not say the 8 year old was abused. It simply said he was kept there. It does mention accusations regarding some teenagers but I did not think those were in the official documentation.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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The child said he was 12 so you can pretty much take that as true


Another disgusting blight on America's name being carried out by this Administration. Why dont you Americans do something???

I'd love to see Seekerof's spin on this one



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Nope, certainly do not condone this.
Enough spin for you there subz?

Just an FYI for FredT and most others: these alledged reportings have been around since middle last year. Where have you all been up to now?

children at Abu Ghraib




seekerof

[edit on 11-3-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Age has nothing to do with war............average age of the Khmer Rouge was 14.............they murdered millions.........


Sep

posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Age has nothing to do with war


There is no war in Iraq, the war ended remember. "Mission accomplished"



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Just an FYI for FredT and most others: these alledged reportings have been around since middle last year. Where have you all been up to now?
[/url]


No doubt, but when it comes up ont he wire services I post it......



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by subz
The child said he was 12 so you can pretty much take that as true


Another disgusting blight on America's name being carried out by this Administration. Why dont you Americans do something???

I'd love to see Seekerof's spin on this one


Something is being done to find out what happened there.....what exactly are you suggesting we do?....

As FredT was saying the article does not mention the 12 year old was abused, he was in prison. Why do people think that all 12 year olds are good and not capable of using a weapon or strap a bomb on themselves?

Yes, we do need to investigate this, but it is very possible this 12 year old was caught fighting with firearms, or in some other manner helping insurgents against coalition forces.

[edit on 11-3-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Age has nothing to do with war............average age of the Khmer Rouge was 14.............they murdered millions.........


Whoa, hold on, if you count every one killed in a war as murder then we would have alot of murderers.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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Abu Ghraib and other incidents like the mud wrestling, show why at the current method women cannot be included in the military. I am not saying that they cannot be effective soliders, but the way the soliders in the field react together affects how they fight. Look at the two people at the center of Abu Ghraib: A couple who was sexually involved during combat. Isn't there some sort of thing against that....oh yeah! Fraterization!

I think it is funny how people were against "don't ask, don't tell" for homosexuals but what is the problem? There is not to be any sex in the military anyways! In my opinion women should be allowed into the military like any other solider however certain regulations must be followed:

1) The same physical standards must be met
This means heads shaved,execercise together, same training at same time together, no seperation.
2) No seperation after training
This means no seperate showers, no seperate quarters, no seperation what so ever.
3) Any violation is means for automatic Court Mashall
This means that any offense of a solider remembering that they have gender will be removed from their post, docked pay, and demotion upon first offense. Soliders must act like eunics. They are not just citizens of the United States, they are members of the military. They surrender many rights when they choose to defend ours.

These rules will never be put into effect and if they were they'd be near impossible to enforce. However, at least I can get the idea out there. What is everyone's opinion on women in the military and your reaction to the lack of morals displayed by our armed forces?



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Conrad thats a little off topic


You cant treat Iraqi children any different to American children. What exactly is the criminal age of responsibility in America? Also there are no social workers in Iraq so arresting children is going to be a dicey situation.

Being in a war zone is no excuse to act like barbarians.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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No one ever said that the 12 year old boy was mistreated. He was in a facility where the mistreatment took place. Also, anyone who has ever had any military experience has to realize that it is not the person you are fighting but that they are fighting you. All because it is a 12 year old boy doesn't make the RPG he is holding any dangerous. You have a kill switch that is engaged during combat situations and must be turned off during control of POW's and return to civilian life. The soliders at Abu Ghraib did not know where to stop. They were unmonitored and allowed to do whatever they wanted. That is the CO's fault, not top military brass. Unless there is direct evidence that states otherwise, the point of responsibility falls on the General in charge of Abu Ghraib, Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski.

One other thing we have to remember. This isn't America. There are no social workers and probably will never be social workers. This is up to the Iraqis and how they wish to run their country. We also have to realize that the abuse isn't just from the US troops. Many people brought before the Judges in Iraq are beaten and bruised by their Iraqi captors, not just coalition troops.

Also, my last post is not off topic. When women are in the military the male soliders act like men and try to impress the females. If you make it so that the soliders "forget" their gender, then you will not have prisoner abuse problems. Just a thought. Look at high school hazings when freshman come in...why do the seniors and juniors do it? To impress the cheerleaders and get some.....i'll leave it at that...

[edit on 12-3-2005 by CAConrad0825]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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CAConrad0825, I understand where you're coming from with regards to the enemy fighting you mindset of soldiers. But the US Army is an invasion force, they the ones technically doing the fighting and the "enemy" is actually defending their country.

That aside, what happend to "capturing the hearts and minds" of the Iraqis? Locking up their children is probably the worst thing you can do to any human. Also after the WMD's vapourised the excuse for the invasion was based on humanitarian grounds (which I supported and still do) in removing Saddam and showing the Iraqis a true quality of life. Locking up 12 year olds in military prisons, irrelevant of the charges, is grossly wrong.

These military prisons are notorious for tortue. How hard would it be to torture a 12 year old into submission? Not very hard, do you think these scum bags are above torturing kids? Sadly, I dont think they are.

Also the orders to allow torture came from the Defence Secretary himself. Sleep deprevation, dietary changes (starving), stress positions and the use of guard dogs to scare and bite detainees were issued to soldiers in Guantanamo and transfered to Abu Ghraib. Those techniques are tortue, regardles of what euphamism the Secretary chooses to try and hide the fact with.

Rumsfeld approved "harsh" interrogation



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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All because a kid is a kid he is still capable of violence. I am not saying he should be beaten or tortured. No human should be. However that does not mean that this kid who was charged with fighting for the enemy is innocent. If he can pull the trigger for the enemy then he is to apprehended and tried.



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