WAR: Spain: Muslims Issue Fatwa Against Bin Laden

Originally posted by edsinger
See that is the turdblossom mentality at work, claim the Bush and Blair have killed more than Bin Ladin. It MISSES the point people. Bush did not fly that S-3 into a mosque nor did he order the deliberate killing of civilians.

Indeed. Its like saying that once the US killed an equal number of nazis and imperial japanese soldiers after pearl harbour, that they had to stop. Civilians die in war, thats why you shouldn't start one. Bin Ladin started the war, the fightings in that part of the world, hence, civilian deaths over there. Saddam could've easily prevented the Iraq War, but he didn't want to. He's the one to blame for it, not the US.

I commend the Spanish Mullahs.

Don't tell them that. They might read some of your posts and change their minds.

Originally posted by subz
Why should Muslims have to do this just to prove that they are not "with Bin Laden"

No one forced them to issue a fatwa calling for his death. They could've made a different sort of statment.

And why shouldn't they call for the death of a vile evil murderer?

Apparently the spanish musilms aren't cowards, just the regular spanish..

hehe...good point.

Nygdan you do know you can edit your posts dont you?

The problem with your comparison between WW2 and this so-called War on Terror is that in WW2 it was country fighting country. In this War on Terror it was an individual with no passive consent of a nation that instigated it, therefore why should whole populations suffer and die? They have zero responsibility for what Bin Laden did but you find it acceptable that they should die for it. Bad decision making, leads to resentment, leads to renewed terrorism. Good for arms manufacturers and no one else.

Originally posted by Nygdan
No one forced them to issue a fatwa calling for his death. They could've made a different sort of statment.

And why shouldn't they call for the death of a vile evil murderer?

There were posts on here showing amazement that a fatwa wasnt issued earlier. My comment was in relation to that.

They shouldnt call for the death of any one as they are a religon and as such should leave well alone from international politics. All these fatwas acheive is to make muslims look like savages and give credence to assertions that Islam is a violent faith.

Also I find it arrogant and offensive that people assume that the Socialist government was only voted in because of the Madrid bombings. Isnt it possible that they would of been voted in even without the Madrid bombings?

It would of been reverse intimidation by Britain and America to say that the Spanish have to keep the incumbants or they were cowards. At the end of the day the Spanish people are the only ones qualified to comment on who they voted in.

[edit on 15/3/05 by subz]

Originally posted by wang
To bad his already dead

it's good he's dead. it's too bad the media keeps resurrecting him.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by edsingerSee that is the turdblossom mentality at work, claim the Bush and Blair have killed more than Bin Ladin. It MISSES the point people. Bush did not fly that S-3 into a mosque nor did he order the deliberate killing of civilians.

Or at least 52% of them or whatever the ratio was! Funny Post!

Originally posted by Nygdan

I commend the Spanish Mullahs.

Don't tell them that. They might read some of your posts and change their minds.

You may have a point.....but still it was a brave statement for them to make in the first place and yet I still hear very little of this in the news.

Not that it is right to issues these 'Death' sentences in the first place, but that is one that would do the world good.



[edit on 15-3-2005 by edsinger]

Originally posted by Gazrok

Apparently the spanish musilms aren't cowards, just the regular spanish..

hehe...good point.

Both of you are wrong.

You aren't Spanish- you don't live there or deal with what they do. Spain went to Iraq 'on a promise' and left AFTER destruction. The Spanish have nothing to appologize about.
.

.

NO! They capitulated, plain and simple.

How dare you say that they capitulated. Do you have the first idea about Spanish democracy?

If your leader goes against the will of the nation by sending troops into Iraq then you attract unwanted terrorist attention. Can it be safe to assume that your people will vote your ass out of office pronto? In a true democracy you do as the people say, not as your PM says.

Is it a capitulation when Spaniards didnt want a part in losing their lives for a war that America started? A war that is about American imperialism? A war that probably is against an enemy the Americans fund on the sly?

Votes in a democracy are not capitulations and to say they are is pure arrogance. It is the will of the people which saw him voted out of office, it might seem alien to some people but thats how these things are SUPPOSED to work

[edit on 18/3/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
How dare you say that they capitulated. Do you have the first idea about Spanish democracy?

If your leader goes against the will of the nation by sending troops into Iraq then you attract unwanted terrorist attention. Can it be safe to assume that your people will vote your ass out of office pronto? In a true democracy you do as the people say, not as your PM says.

Is it a capitulation when Spaniards didnt want a part in losing their lives for a war that America started? A war that is about American imperialism? A war that probably is against an enemy the Americans fund on the sly?

Votes in a democracy are not capitulations and to say they are is pure arrogance. It is the will of the people which saw him voted out of office, it might seem alien to some people but thats how these things are SUPPOSED to work

[edit on 18/3/05 by subz]

I said before that this thread was highjacked to spread anti-american
sentiment. As President Ronald Reagan would say, "Well there you go again!"

Getting back to the orginal thread, I do not see why the worlds muslems cannot follow in Spains lead. Issuing a Fatwah seems so damn easy when it is in their interest to do so. The mullahs never use restraint when it comes to condeming the author of 'Satanic Verses'. Why then is it so unrealistic to expect the mullahs to do the same against an individual that supposedly has caused such irreversible harm to the Islamic religion.
Whether or not one supports the USA is not the issue. The issue is a group lead by an individual that uses the teaching and writtings of the Koran to justify their murderous attacks on civilians. They do not attack just Americans, they attack other muslems and even clerics that they oppose.
I for one cannot help to wonder that maybe it is because most muslems support this terrorist and his agenda. How is it acceptable to kill innocent muslems but not to kill a supposed liar and blasphemer of Islam?


[edit on 21-3-2005 by Yorga]

Yorga it is not acceptable to kill any one. Or is that a naieve sentiment?

The fatwa against Rushdie was issued by Ayatollah Kohmeni, the spiritual leader of Iran. It wasnt a fatwa supported by all the worlds muslims.

Fatwas are unnacceptable in todays modern society, just as jihad is unnacceptable. We cannot cherry pick vulgar practices of islam and use it to our own ends. If we expect one we should expect the other.

Also the references to America are more than justified in this thread as the slights against the Spaniards capitulating are in reference to the War on Terror. If not the American War on Terror then just what exactly did they capitulate from?

Im not going to accept this new social taboo about criticising America even when its justified.

[edit on 21/3/05 by subz]

America's war on terrorism began in November 1979

That was shortly after Ayatollah Khomeini had seized power in Iran,
riding the slogan "Death to America" - and sure enough, the attacks
on Americans soon began. In November 1979, a militant Islamic mob
took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, the Iranian capital, and held
52 Americans hostage for the next 444 days. The Carter Administration
was in the White House at the time.

The rescue team sent to free those hostages in April 1980 suffered
eight fatalities, making them the first of militant Islam's many American
casualties. Others included:

April 1983: 17 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.

December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.

January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.

April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.

September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).

December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.

June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.

After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia
in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.

Simultaneously, the murderous assault of militant Islam also took place on U.S. soil:

July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.

August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.

August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.

September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.

January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.

November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.

February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.

January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.

February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.

March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.

February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.

October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City.

In all, 800 persons lost their lives in the course of attacks by militant Islam
on Americans before September 2001 - more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War. (Further, this listing does not include the dozens more Americans in Israel killed by militant Islamic terrorists.)

"Death to America by Daniel Pipes New York Post"


Sir America did not start this war, but America will finish it!

You do not have to kill Bin laden, Muslems could just stop helping him. Muslems could turn him into the authorities of his host country where he could be dealt with by Islamic law. Apparently that is asking to much also.

I suppose the Islamic militants woke up one day and just thought "I feel like killing some Americans today". Maybe you should look into the reasons why Kohmeini got into power and the scandal of the US puppet Shah.

Its fine, America can pursue this War but it shouldnt expect other countries to die for them. Saying that Spain capitulated is a load of crap, they chose to elect a different government - that is their right.

Look at WW2 for example, the Americans didnt want a bar of the fighting until they physically were attacked in Pearl Harbour. Did that make Americans cowards for not wading into the War in 1939 when Europe was burning? Or was it their right to remain out of the War until they chose to enter it a full 3 years later?

Also where do you get off making it every muslims fault that Osama Bin Laden was not turned in. Like its some blot on Islam that Bin Laden hasnt been handed over by the all-seeing all-knowing mullahs.

[edit on 21/3/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
[I suppose the Islamic militants woke up one day and just thought "I feel like killing some Americans today". Maybe you should look into the reasons why Kohmeini got into power and the scandal of the US puppet Shah.]

Yeah right, we could debate this back and forth all day.

[Its fine, America can pursue this War but it shouldnt expect other countries to die for them. Saying that Spain capitulated is a load of crap, they chose to elect a different government - that is their right.]

Read back over the thread and you will see that I never said any such thing

[Look at WW2 for example, the Americans didnt want a bar of the fighting until they physically were attacked in Pearl Harbour. Did that make Americans cowards for not wading into the War in 1939 when Europe was burning? Or was it their right to remain out of the War until they chose to enter it a full 3 years later?]

Reference last remark!

[Also where do you get off making it every muslims fault that Osama Bin Laden was not turned in. Like its some blot on Islam that Bin Laden hasnt been handed over by the all-seeing all-knowing mullahs.]

It is a blot on Islam. If he were a Christian or Jew then I would say that he is a blot on those religions as well and I would have expected him to have been reeled in by now. The only way he is able to avoid capture is because he is getting help. You cannot escape the fact that he is a product of radical Islamic teaching that is widely accepted in certain Muslems circles even in the USA. Nothing you or he thinks America has done justifies the killing of innocents. This man targets Muslems as well, it is not just an American problem. It is a world wide problem and the Worlds Muslems owe it to the world to bring this lunacy to an end. Passing the buck onto America is an easy out. The all seeing and all knowing Mullahs have more
persuasion than you give them credit for. How many Muslems are there in the world? How many pairs of eyes would that be? As long as this evil continues then Americans and Muslems are going to die by the thousands.
That alone should be enough for any wise man to want to see the killing stopped. America has been pulled into a lull since there has been no attack on our homeland since 9/11. Let this madman and his croonies pull off another more devasting attack on America, then Arabs and Muslems are going to face a wrath unlike anything they have seen to date. It will put anything that the Shah may have done to shame. Are millions dead worth arguing over who started what? Yes it is a blot on Islam and will continue to be as long this man and others like him continue there reign of terror in the name of Islam.


[edit on 21/3/05 by subz]

You might want to format your post a little

So your saying that if theres another attack on mainland America that the response should be the killing of millions of muslims?

Fact is, Bin Laden is being hidden by radicals. Nothing moderates will say will cause him to be given up.

I agree that what he (apparently) did was disgraceful and I agree the world would be better off without him. What I dont agree with though is debasing Islam by getting them to order, for all intents and purposes, a hit. Moderate (true) Islam is fighting a hard battle to distance itself from all the killing and hatred in this World. Demanding that they issue death warrants is being hypocritical.

Cant you see that if you get them to proclaim that OBL should be killed because he violated the Koran (thats the essence of a fatwa) would open up fatwas based on other violations of the Koran.

Spains Muslems issued a fatwah against OBL, does that make all of Spains Muslems Radicals going against mainstream Islamic thinking? It appears to me then that there is no general concensus of what the Koran says and what it doesn't. Just as one can read the bible and get what they wish to get from it's verses when it suits ones purpose, so too can one do the same with the Koran. I would think that the murder of innocents be they, Mulsem or Infidel would be more than a peaceful religion could bear. Further more when that murder is being done in the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammed while quoting the Koran. This thinking is not being taught in caves, it is being taught in Mosques. It is being taught in Muslem Religious Schools, not just the slums of Arab third world countries. This kind of hatred is being supported by donations from around the world. Just recently a Muslem school was closed In Virginia, USA for radical Islamic teaching. This school was being supported by the Saudi's. It is wide spread not isolated to the mountainous regions of Afganistan. For this I hold the worlds Muslems responsible. They have done nothing to get this madness under control. Passive non-involvement isn't the answer. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem! My god even the Iraqi's under daily fear of death and pressures you and I can not only imagine, had the nerve to demonstrate against murdering innocents. Islams Mullahs can get the masses out when they want to protest against America. Where are the massive Muslem protests against terrorist? Where is the massive outcry against the death of innocent women and children? A million Lebanese can jam a square and protest Syria, but muslems cannot muster any kind of organized massive protest against terror? Well for one thing, one has to care enough to feel outrage. OBL's number one goal is to out do 9/11. The world knows this. Be it dirty bomb, chemical or nuclear, if and when this attack occurs on American soil, the world as we know it will cease to exist. If they think for a moment that America will not retaliate they are sadly mistaken. As a career soldier, I can honestly tell you that milions of innocent Middleastern men, women and children will die in a swift and horrible counter strike. This is the reality of what this mad man is leading the world into. The American government and military will not allow even the remote possiblity of a second devasting attack on our soil. America will attack with extreme prejudice to assure it's survival. That is not a threat that is a fact!

[edit on 22-3-2005 by Yorga]