It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Here's how I see it..... watcha think?

page: 4
24
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 5 2020 @ 12:24 PM
link   
a reply to: incoserv

I am grateful that we are not all smitten and that somebody is keeping a critical eye.


Ah, yes, a critical eye. To me, this might be the major task of ATSers, keeping a critical eye while recognizing that we, being differently developed people will not all have the same critical eye and that it could be to our advantage to being more open to those critical eyes of different perspectives.

And I knew that I would not convince you nor did I hope to, just offer a background for my own perspectives. Having thought f or a while after that previous post and considering yours, if I may I would like to fill in a few other blanks as to my observations on our situation.

While in that cult, part of my tasks was as a fund raiser. Going door to door or office to office we would blitz neighborhoods and office buildings selling our trinkets and flowers, always for a ''good cause'' that vaguely resembled our activities. We would spend hours making up these little trinket boxes costing pennies and then go out and sell them for five bucks. The trinkets didn't matter, the energy behind the sales pitch did. Finally we landed on flowers which took no time for preparation.

I was a whiz. I could hit a neighborhood and two hours later leave it with between
150 and 200 bucks. In 1972 that was some serious coin. All for donations to our cult. I would get to a door and once it was opened I could tell within 5 seconds whether or not I could have a sale. If not I would thank them and skip to the next house. But if so I would then really turn it on and within the next 10 seconds know if I had a multible sale.

I learned that the trinket didn't matter, it was the connection to the purchaser that was all. If I could cut right through to their sense of themselves and allow their better intentions to express themselves by buying and helping the ''cause'' I could then exploit that. So many people wanted to help with the ''drug program'' so that it would not infiltrate their own neighborhoods and they wanted to help the poor souls that ''we were salvaging '' in our '' drug centers. In reality it was we who might have been the drug users and the money was going to us, or rather to the cult hierarchy.

And I hated myself for it. The lying, the conniving, the manipulations. That was not me, but I did it anyway because of the brainwashing I had allowed into my mind.

Once out of that cult, I had a four year void in my work history. Applications were difficult to fill out. About the only job I could find at first was in sales, they didn't seem to care about work history and as I soon came to realize they would take just about anyone who they could use for a while until they were worn out and quit.

I was good at that as well. In a food brokerage job, going from store to store selling ad space to the managers. Making sure the shelves were full of our product. Hanging little gizmos out from the shelves to dangle in front of women' s eyes to grab their attention. Fighting for shelf space that was at eye level instead of knee level. All those little things that go on behind the conscious realization of most consumers. Vying for their attention, vying for their money.

And the out right lying. Putting ''new and improved'' stickers on the product to sucker people into trying it again. One product manager told me I was one of the best sales reps he had had in all his years with the product. And I hated it. The using of people.

Once out of sales I began to study the philosophy of sales and advertising. Going back to the early guys like Edward Bernays and Earl Nightengale I fostered my loathing of the sales industry. Madison Avenue. All that money being made by pushing people's unconscious desires and dreams. All that money spilled into newspaper ads, all that money poured into TV commercials. I studied about the ''think tanks'' that developed the subliminal jabs that would excite the unwary consumer into giving up their hard earned money for stuff they didn't need and really had not even known they wanted.

I once trained for a job in a book store. On our final day of training, the manager had us watch while he dealt with a few
customers . One woman was shocked at the price she had to pay once they had gotten back to the register. She had not been aware that he had talked her into buying two more items than she had first wanted. Totally unaware of what had just happened to her. She shrugged and paid. I hated it. I quit that day.

So yes, I admit, I have a profound hatred for sales people. I think I hate it because to me, in my being, I see that I could do it and do it well. And I hate them because I hated myself when I did what they do. If you are still reading, you are present at the unveiling to myself of that relationship. I hate them for doing what I hate myself for doing. I guess that extends mightily to Trump.

He is a salesman extraordinaire, He sold mail order steaks with his brand on the label. Failure. He sold gambling in his casinos. Failure. He sold airline accommodations. Failure. He sold bright promises and hopes in his on line University. Failure.

He realized that many American women would rather buy Betty Crocker rather than a generic cake mix. Why? Because they wanted to ''trust'' in the quality of a known and popular brand. So brand he did. He put his ''brand'' on his airplanes, on his buildings on his University. Branding. Branding is suckering people to trust when trust is not really deserved.

And then ABC or NBC, who cares offered him a job of playing a big boss on TV. Not because he was really good at being a boss but because he was the epitome of a '' cartoon boss character'' who could, make people laugh every time he said ''your'e fired'' all while the real economy struggled under two different administrations and people were loosing their jobs left and right.

And just so you know, I watched Mrs Clinton on Fallon last night. Sitting there with her postured ''giggle and laugh''. Her rehearsed joviality and camaraderie. Her dispensing of ''wisdom'' as if she were a modern day Oracle of Delphi. Oh stop Terry. Move on move on. Thanks incoserv.




posted on Mar, 5 2020 @ 12:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

It's a good observation, Terry, but if we take it at face value, we run up against a thing not unlike using rockets to move faster than light.

Addressing the primal human need to be led by leaders is impossible from our current position of understanding. We can't get there from here. Trying to fix politics by addressing that would require infinite energy just to come within striking distance of solution.

Which is why humans make war. It requires far less energy to declare the other side the enemy and try to kill it than it does to address the root issue you identified. In fact, it requires infinitely less energy.

Hence, the eternal yin/yang, up/down, right/left, black/white, good/bad, saved/damned, lib/con, and everything that comes with it.


Yeahhhh, your'e right. It's just that the ying has become so yingggggggggggggg and the yang has become so yanggggggggggggggg.



posted on Mar, 5 2020 @ 03:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Murgatroid

I have noticed as well that conservatives and liberal alike appear to comprehend each other in the same fashion. That is both are finding the other side as being cultish.

That is pure gold, I never realized that until now, so many similarities come to mind where the same thing happens constantly in discussions on science, evolution, religion, etc. It reminds me of Ole Dammegård and Eustace Mullins who both said that all conspiracies are somehow connected...



posted on Mar, 5 2020 @ 03:12 PM
link   
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

There is no denying it feels that way sometimes, but is it really? Today, more people around the world live under democracy and autocracy/dictatorship rule represents a far smaller group of countries than ever before.

In 1895, upwards of 95-percent of the world's population lived on less than a dollar a day, adjusted for 2020 inflation. Today, that number is 36-percent.

Our leaders are the same schmucks they've always been, but we have more tools in demand fairer treatment from them than ever before.

Point is, we are far from the finish line, but we have pushed the darkness back and shined a light on corruption more than ever before. This is not the time to lose faith that we will continue to do so.



posted on Mar, 6 2020 @ 11:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Murgatroid

For me, yes, all conspiracies are connected. And yes, while connected, I don't know just how much of it is connected due to the thousand hands full of people who are speculated as ruling the globe. Rather I suspect that they are connected due to some basic existential differences within human thought processing.

Some one who relates existentially to our human condition by focusing on past lore or past practices will automatically be at odds with someone who primarily focuses on interpreting our condition in light of constantly evolving information such as sciences and philosophies. This is not easy to define as both sides take the other into account in their own judgments but at the core they are very different. I think.

Like was the world created around 6000 years ago or has it evolved over millennia. With the complexity of modern world and the promise of more complexity as we head into the future, how can those two camps agree on much of anything.

I think that both sides of that issue for example have the ability to perceive the dramatic challenges we face but then when it comes to meeting those challenges devise opposing methods of doing so. Hence the convoluted conspiracies of just what has been holding us back from the better world that we all want. Each side finds villains.

I agree with Ole Dammegård, though I just had to look him up, in his suggestion that five or six thousand people run the show. I don't know exactly who he thinks these people are but my thought is that they are the very very rich, those people who have managed to rise to the top of the worlds economic system and not some nefarious, though that could be nefarious enough, group of people bonded in a cabal-like organization.



posted on Mar, 6 2020 @ 12:56 PM
link   
a reply to: 0zzymand0s
And there again you have me out Ozzy, my faith for a future. Naturally this could be attributed to my own short term viability in that I'm 73 with aches and pains and inabilities that creep in and steal away my once dependable stamina.

But that aside, we have made progress though I question the end results of that progress. Has that progress been built upon a model of dominionism or a model of sustainability. A fair example here would be an old logging town. Lot's of trees and lots of work and lots of profit. But once the trees are cut and gone, so goes the town.This compared to a logging town that replants trees in places that have been logged so that twenty or thirty year later it can be logged again.

I'm not sure at all that our progress is sustainable. I have had faith that it is but now I am not so sure anymore.



posted on Mar, 6 2020 @ 05:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Wardaddy454
a reply to: chr0naut


Hypothetically, why the hell would I want to "get on the ladder", and better my situation, if it means I'm going to see my tax rate skyrocket the more and better I improve myself? Especially when I could probably get a hefty little income by way of UBI, and free healthcare!

Or, again hypothetically, I've worked my ass off for 30 years to get to a comfortable place. Suddenly, I'm looking at a tax rate of 42% or more. So now I'm supposed to go to work for 60 hours a week, and watch nearly half my income taken (under threat of jail time or a gun) and given to someone who would rather live off of UBI and free healthcare, instead of helping me support our fellow countryman? And just accept it and grin?

And the goal of Socialism is Communism, I believe it was famously put.


As someone of a reasonable and middle income, where a large portion of that income goes to living costs, that higher tax rate would be misapplied.

There are some whose disposable income is so large that even living a lavish lifestyle barely touches it. It is these people who should be taxed higher. Many of them pay no tax at all - how fair is that?

It is folly to try and take the most money from those who have the least when the richest pickings are at hand and they would hardly notice the difference.


First of all, where is it stated that life is guaranteed to be fair?

Remember when France bumped their tax rate up to 70%? What happened? The wealthy started leaving, especially since they had the means to do so, and France was forced to walk it back.

You would have to force these people to pay that tax rate at gunpoint, and prevent them from leaving the country and moving their assets and companies. Sounds wonderful huh?



posted on Mar, 7 2020 @ 09:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

You do realize that everyone in America has an opportunity to better themselves?

As someone who was once homeless and living on the streets, I can personally attest that the system we currently have works just fine.

As opposed to a Bernie Sanders solution, which will end up being an upper class of political tyrants and the rest of the citizenry equally poor and starving with no way at all to better themselves.

Socialism taking care of the common person is a pipe dream.

Because of human nature.




No, people in your country still die of preventable illnesses due to not having the right insurance cover or sufficient bank balance.

People, despite their best efforts, sometimes fail repeatedly in their attempts to legally get out of poverty.

People who have viable businesses and do nothing illegal or wrong, get driven out of businesses by the big income criminals who have no limitation upon what they will do to get wealthy.

People are broken financially dealing with temporary illnesses in a system where health care costs more than any country in the world and they never recover.

People who farm and provide essential services get driven out of doing what they do best by whims of nature and fluctuating bank balances.

The system has lots of problems.

Human nature is why people who are financially poor and can barely afford things, still give more to charity (in total) than the richest do.

The current system uplifts the mega rich few while it tramples the very numerous poor and does not give a damn about the vast in-betweens.

Socialism is a necessary counter to ultra-capitalism. It allows for incentive to achieve while it ensures that the poorest can at least survive, and in no way does it prevent a go-getter from being entrepreneurial and 'making it'.


Except what really happens with socialism is the rich shut down shop, pack up and move their business to another country and their money to an off shore account.

The middle class get pounded into poverty with a ridiculous amount of taxes, and less jobs due to the rich moving their businesses overseas.

With no middle class left, you have kings and peasants.
edit on 7-3-2020 by Traveler101 because: Spell correction



posted on Mar, 8 2020 @ 12:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: Traveler101

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: chr0naut

You do realize that everyone in America has an opportunity to better themselves?

As someone who was once homeless and living on the streets, I can personally attest that the system we currently have works just fine.

As opposed to a Bernie Sanders solution, which will end up being an upper class of political tyrants and the rest of the citizenry equally poor and starving with no way at all to better themselves.

Socialism taking care of the common person is a pipe dream.

Because of human nature.




No, people in your country still die of preventable illnesses due to not having the right insurance cover or sufficient bank balance.

People, despite their best efforts, sometimes fail repeatedly in their attempts to legally get out of poverty.

People who have viable businesses and do nothing illegal or wrong, get driven out of businesses by the big income criminals who have no limitation upon what they will do to get wealthy.

People are broken financially dealing with temporary illnesses in a system where health care costs more than any country in the world and they never recover.

People who farm and provide essential services get driven out of doing what they do best by whims of nature and fluctuating bank balances.

The system has lots of problems.

Human nature is why people who are financially poor and can barely afford things, still give more to charity (in total) than the richest do.

The current system uplifts the mega rich few while it tramples the very numerous poor and does not give a damn about the vast in-betweens.

Socialism is a necessary counter to ultra-capitalism. It allows for incentive to achieve while it ensures that the poorest can at least survive, and in no way does it prevent a go-getter from being entrepreneurial and 'making it'.


Except what really happens with socialism is the rich shut down shop, pack up and move their business to another country and their money to an off shore account.

The middle class get pounded into poverty with a ridiculous amount of taxes, and less jobs due to the rich moving their businesses overseas.

With no middle class left, you have kings and peasants.


But surely those fabulously wealthy ones don't have a work output millions of times more than their workers? So the real earners of the money are the workers and the richest ones parasite on the earnings of very many workers.

So, it the parasitic rich moved away, the workers would own more of their own output. Without the load upon them of the non-contributors, they will have more money and a small portion taken in tax will be less than is currently taken.

edit on 8/3/2020 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
24
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join