Anglo-American Power In The End Times

a reply to: DISRAELI

No, you are the one who is confusing the two, because the "mortal wound" reference comes in ch13 (v3) and refers to the beast of ch13.
If Anglo-America is the beast of ch13, then Anglo-America suffers the mortal wound.

Isn't it normal to refer to the ch12 animal as "the dragon"? The "two beasts" concept usually refers to the difference between the beast from the sea in v1 and the beast from the land in v11.
I'm not sure that you're quite "on top of" ch13.

I don't see that the OP ever listed Anglo-America as the one head that experiences a mortal wound in Revelation 13. What we know from chapter 13 is that the beast has seven heads and ONE of the heads is wounded, but there's nothing in that chapter or in the OP's post that states who the ONE head out of the seven was that was wounded that I can see. Did I miss something?

a reply to: Deetermined
I assume the seven heads are a series, one dominating the world at a time. The one that suffers a mortal wound and revives is clearly the last in the cycle, because that is the one that gets defeated when Christ returns. The second diagram in the opening post assumes the "series" theory, because it calls Anglo-America the seventh head. The discussion has been taking place on that basis.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Based on one of the OP's previous replies, I get the impression that he believes that the beast is a one world or combined government made up of different nations from the U.N. and that the combined union will be the one that's wounded and revived. Personally, I'm having difficulty working this one out and developing my own opinion on which way it could fall.

Edit to Add: These verses just came to mind and made me think that he could be correct...

Revelation 17:12-13

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

a reply to: Deetermined
On my reading of Revelation, the current power-structures of the world collapse under the impact of the Four Horsemen (which combine together as a single catastrophe). That's the mortal wound. The seventh head recovers, and leads the rest of the world into recovery, and that's what gives it the leadership of the world. On that theory, there is no point in looking for the beast in current structures- unless perhaps by asking "in the event of a general catastrophe of the world, which nation might recover first?"

P.S. The 10 kings passage, which I've just seen you quote, fits into this scheme after the recovery. The Beast then dominates the world partly by indirect means, through allied and associated rulers.

a reply to: DISRAELI

That makes sense too.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

From your post we may assume that this ''kingdom'' will not be either the US or the UK. Correct? If so, where do you think this kingdom the God of heaven will establish his kingdom? Do you see some nation or tribe or whatever that demonstrates any indication of being this indestructible kingdom?

After the wrath of the tribulation is over and the Word of God [Jesus] returns to rule this world for one thousand years, it is ruled from the kingdom of New Jerusalem otherwise known as the kingdom of heaven. The Orthodox Jews and Jesus' doctrines are not the same.

The kingdom of heaven is New Jerusalem and not the Jerusalem of this world that we see today.

1Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Word [Jesus] does indeed reign for 1,000 years but not as a terrestrial entity. As the universe is destroyed, all of the righteous both alive and dead will become citizens of the New Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem [kingdom] will then settle upon the new earth and new heaven. This is the doctrine taught by James the brother of Jesus to the first century Nazarene's.

a reply to: Seede

A '' new'' Earth? So is this suggesting that this planet will be will be gone. I suppose so as you suggest that the universe in which Earth exists now will be destroyed. Am I clear on that part at least? So if that is so, I guess it dosen't matter that we are polluting this planet beyond it's capacity or that we are populating the globe beyond is ability to supply us with the resources we need to survive? I guess it doesn't matter who is in the White House at any point because it's all moot in the end picture which is the destruction of this universe to make way for the New Jerusalem on a new planet entirely.

I guess all that matters is that we get ourselves right with Jesus and that that will ensure us a place in the New Jerusalem. And I guess it doesn't matter that there are a wide variety of doctrines to choose from in exactly how to ''get right with Jesus''. Some of those doctrines are similar but some are very different yet those who follow them believe that it is they who will inherit a bed in the New Jerusalem while others who have followed the ''wrong way'' of getting right with Jesus will not. Kind of sounds a bit like a crap shoot to me.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

A '' new'' Earth? So is this suggesting that this planet will be will be gone. I suppose so as you suggest that the universe in which Earth exists now will be destroyed.

Perhaps i am confusing the end times doctrine of Jesus and I really should not do that. What I am trying to say is that end times of rabbinic Judaism is different than what is taught by the earl;y Nazarene's. Who is right and who is not right is up for grabs and depends upon what you want to believe. Jesus taught the kingdom of heaven will eventually become the theocratic one world government in the last one thousand years of this creation.

But before the one thousand years may be what most people today are concerned with. The book of Revelation will show us the fighting for power and establishing a world government from the Satan's of this terrestrial creation. How long that will be is a matter of scholars opinions. This is what we see today and no one actually knows how long that will be.

My interest is the great tribulation and the gathering of the righteous from the earth. This is when Gods kingdom starts for one thousand years. So to be fair minded, in Christianity, we actually have an era of our present nations fighting for power and trying to establish a one world government [kingdom] on this earth. That one wold government of our present nations will eventually be destroyed by the great tribulation which will create a one thousand years world government [kingdom] by The Word of God [Jesus]. After the one thousand years era is completed then this creation is destroyed.

So when politicians tell you they are going to save this world [green deal or climate change etc.] then they are not of biblical Christianity. No man can save what God has cursed. The true end times is the one thousand years at the end of creation. This world has at least one thousand years before it is destroyed.

a reply to: Seede

As the universe is destroyed

After the one thousand years era is completed then this creation is destroyed.

That is a false doctrine that is dogmatic by nature.

Why would Jesus Christ destroy then entire universe, to what end ?
Also this physical earth is more than salvageable, the entrenched systems are not, which include religious*, political, military, commercial/economic.
* only the purest form of first century Christianity survives, everything else is wiped out.

When the bible talks about a new heavens they aren't talking about all new galaxies, they are not tainted by anything or anybody, Satan and his demons exist in the spiritual realm, which the written word can't quantify to the human mind thus the expression "heavens". The new heavens describes a time when Satan and his demons for the very first time would no longer be in them, like they were in Job's day. If you read the book of Revelations this has already happened.

a reply to: JON666

If we erupt into Civil War, we would fall apart just as quickly. "Fall in an hour" doesn't necessarily have to mean utter destruction so much as a sudden inability to act as an entity. A Civil War would be just as good for that purpose.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Thank you for making me review this. (Revelations 13:3)
I went back and looked it over, and you were correct the regular colored beast 7th head got the death stroke and that beast represents a bunch of political powers with each head taking a turn in history, the Anglo-American got that in WW1 even though they won the war it was very hard on Britain, like a death stroke. In 1917 the United States contributed her resources and manpower to bolster the war effort of the faltering Britain. Thus, the seventh head, combining Britain and the United States, came out on the winning side, the death stroke was healed. Revived it became more powerful than ever and won the admiration of humans because of its recuperative power.

As for the League of Nations it is the beast(scarlet colored) that goes into the abyss for a short time and then reemerges as the UN.
Revelation 17:8

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

That is a false doctrine that is dogmatic by nature.

Nevertheless it is taught in the KJV NT by the same apostles that introduced the book of Revelation.

2nd Peter 3:10 -14
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Does not Isaiah tell us the same ?
Isaiah 24:19 -20
The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Why will this happen? Because the earth was cursed and sentenced to perish. That which comes from God shall happen and nothing can prevent it from happening. That is the doctrine given by Jesus to James the Just to teach the first century Nazarene's. Whether you believe it is your prerogative.

a reply to: Seede
Thank you for your patience and your explanation of how you believe it will play out Seede, though I see from the very next post by our OP that he calls what you say into question by calling some of what you have posted as ''false doctrine''.

I have the impression that a theocratic government would be to a very large degree a top down form of government, one that is governed from ''heavenly authority''. one where individual beliefs would not sway apart from established beliefs, mores and laws.

But let me ask you another question. In this new kingdom would there be any variance in beliefs? Do you think that all peoples would read the Bible with interpretive values that are common to all? That each would read every paragraph and understand it in the exact same way as a guy down the street? Would any differences in beliefs even be acceptable?

We have been taught that the road to Heaven is narrow, that we go though it one at a time, that it is like the eye of a needle. Along with this we also see, as I mentioned in an earlier post, this narrowness and exactly what that path is is disagreed about by many of those who believe it to be their task to guide others in the direction of that path. This is exemplified by our OP telling you that some of what you expressed in your posts was false doctrine.

And that is straight to an earlier point of mine. If that path is narrow, and if we admit that there are many false paths that appear to lead to heaven, and that along those false paths are any number of good people who fully believe that they are on the correct path, just how is a person like myself going to listen to any of them? Do you see the conundrum here?

a reply to: Seede

It's not my prerogative at all, it's what the bible actually teaches.

God’s Kingdom will . . .

Remove the wicked, whose selfishness harms us all. “As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth.”—Proverbs 2:22.

End all wars. “[God] is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth.”—Psalm 46:9.

Bring prosperity and security to the earth. “Everyone will live in peace among their own vineyards and fig trees, and no one will make them afraid.”—Micah 4:4, Good News Translation.

Make the earth into a paradise. “Thirsty deserts will be glad; barren lands will celebrate and blossom with flowers.”—Isaiah 35:1, Contemporary English Version.

Provide everyone with meaningful, enjoyable work. “The work of their own hands [God’s] chosen ones will use to the full. They will not toil for nothing.”—Isaiah 65:21-23.

Eliminate disease. “No resident will say: ‘I am sick.’”—Isaiah 33:24.

Set us free from the aging process. “Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.”—Job 33:25.

Bring the dead back to life. “All those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus’] voice and come out.”—John 5:28, 29.

He made his sanctuary as enduring as the heavens,
Like the earth that he has established forever - Psalms 78:69

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it - Psalms 37:29

And from Jesus Christ himself he said “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."-Matthew 5:5

How do you reconcile all these scripture with the ones you quoted, it's easy they are symbolic in nature, not total physical replacement.
They are foolish thoughts passed down by old clergy who taught the purgatory....to think Jesus & God would wipe out the entire physical universe and start over, when Satan and his demons are not even allowed into it anymore. They are currently trapped and restricted in the spirit realm and to the vicinity of the earth according to the book of Revelation.

People who think a "New Heavens & New Earth" means a whole new universe need to look more closely at other bible verses and learn how they relate to each other, and disregard what was being taught 1000 years ago when nobody could read the bible for themselves, this whole dogma is part of the "hellfire" scare tactic the clergy used to use to extort money from the ignorant masses. When you understand the whole context of why something was taught and never challenged by other scriptures.....heretics were killed for centuries, stifling all other thoughts, you can understand so much more.

TerryMcGuire

But let me ask you another question. In this new kingdom would there be any variance in beliefs? Do you think that all peoples would read the Bible with interpretive values that are common to all? That each would read every paragraph and understand it in the exact same way as a guy down the street? Would any differences in beliefs even be acceptable?

Once a person meets death and is then judged is the key to salvation. Judgment does not mean that souls will be judged for evil and good deeds alone. Judgment also means that a justified soul is given a reward but regardless of that, all souls are judged as to their deeds while alive in the flesh.

An example of this could be that two souls are judged and one of the souls being judged was a catholic and the other a baptist. Both have different liturgies but both loved the Christ and The Most High with all their minds hearts and souls. Neither one has ever seen God or His beloved Son and yet both loved them dearly. In judgment they both then see the Father and Son as they truly are and both then put away their teachings that they were taught while in the flesh. In this respect they become resurrected into the kingdom of God and their differences are no longer differences. This is what John taught -----

1John 3:1 -2
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When we see Jesus as He truly is and what we truly become, I believe there can be no denying the truth that is hidden from all of us now. I believe there is no religion on earth that teaches the true Jesus as He is now and that there can be no variances in the kingdom of heaven.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

a reply to: Seede It's not my prerogative at all, it's what the bible actually teaches. God’s Kingdom will . . . Remove the wicked, whose selfishness harms us all. “As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth.”—Proverbs 2:22. End all wars. “[God] is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth.”—Psalm 46:9. Bring prosperity and security to the earth. “Everyone will live in peace among their own vineyards and fig trees, and no one will make them afraid.”—Micah 4:4, Good News Translation. Make the earth into a paradise. “Thirsty deserts will be glad; barren lands will celebrate and blossom with flowers.”—Isaiah 35:1, Contemporary English Version. Provide everyone with meaningful, enjoyable work. “The work of their own hands [God’s] chosen ones will use to the full. They will not toil for nothing.”—Isaiah 65:21-23. Eliminate disease. “No resident will say: ‘I am sick.’”—Isaiah 33:24. Set us free from the aging process. “Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.”—Job 33:25. Bring the dead back to life. “All those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus’] voice and come out.”—John 5:28, 29. He made his sanctuary as enduring as the heavens, Like the earth that he has established forever - Psalms 78:69 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it - Psalms 37:29 And from Jesus Christ himself he said “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."-Matthew 5:5 How do you reconcile all these scripture with the ones you quoted, it's easy they are symbolic in nature, not total physical replacement. They are foolish thoughts passed down by old clergy who taught the purgatory....to think Jesus & God would wipe out the entire physical universe and start over, when Satan and his demons are not even allowed into it anymore. They are currently trapped and restricted in the spirit realm and to the vicinity of the earth according to the book of Revelation. People who think a "New Heavens & New Earth" means a whole new universe need to look more closely at other bible verses and learn how they relate to each other, and disregard what was being taught 1000 years ago when nobody could read the bible for themselves, this whole dogma is part of the "hellfire" scare tactic the clergy used to use to extort money from the ignorant masses. When you understand the whole context of why something was taught and never challenged by other scriptures.....heretics were killed for centuries, stifling all other thoughts, you can understand so much more.

All of that which the prophets have preached is true but you must remember that the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are two distinct realities. The kingdom of God can be in this world and also in the heavenly abode but the kingdom of heaven can only be in the heavenly abode and not in this world. One is the spiritual aspect of life and the other is a celestial realm of real estate.

Nevertheless all that you have written is not of this era. This ere that we now live in will extend up to and including the great tribulation and does not pertain to that which you have listed. But after the tribulation and the government of the Christ is in effect will that become part of His era of the one thousand years reign. During His one thousand years will one see the things you have described. Man is not capable of righteous self government and that is a proven fact in world history.

The new heaven and new earth comes into play after the one thousand years of the Christ according to Revelation and Isaiah authors. Till that time man will flourish upon this earth under their own governments and the government of the Christ.

a reply to: Seede

I believe there is no religion on earth that teaches the true Jesus as He is now and that there can be no variances in the kingdom of heaven.

I like this recognition, that no one teaches Jesus as he is because all we really have is our own interpretations of him. In a manner I guess this can be exemplified by people who will always hold the vision of him as portrayed by the Solomon's head.

I don't know though that I agree that there can be no variances in the kingdom of heaven. I suppose it depends upon how we view that kingdom and like Jesus,I don't know as any religion on earth is teaching about the kingdom as it really is, or could teach it for that matter.

I hold loosely to the idea of heaven having lots of rooms. Rooms of course being simplified metaphors for the expanses of heaven. expanses that are way beyond our comprehensions as simple humans, which of course we are not but may not be beyond us once we have become what we can become or better yet, what we will becoming when we are becoming. I don't like much the idea that we reach a heavenly goal and then quit, you know? We keep on keeping on and the me now has little idea of the me at any point along the path to God.

a reply to: Seede

You think all the hard work put in by Jesus Christ and the heavenly kingdom during the thousand year reign to bring man and earth back to perfection....only to have it all completely wiped out...what an exercise in utter futility.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

a reply to: Seede You think all the hard work put in by Jesus Christ and the heavenly kingdom during the thousand year reign to bring man and earth back to perfection....only to have it all completely wiped out...what an exercise in utter futility.

I don't regard this as being wiped out. The Creator created only one man and all men came from the desires of that one man known to us as procreation. God had no control over this procreation and it was this procreation that rejects God.

Now think about it for a moment and ask yourself if you were God just how long is enough enough. At some point there has to be an end of this hate filled procreation. Love is a two way reality and it cannot continue to be decimated by hate. God does not kill but offers a chance to live forever. When a person dies that person cannot blame God because God had nothing to do with that person dying. The people to blame for death are those that preceded us and the future generations can like wise blame us.

The curse of death of this terrestrial creation is not the end of love. With love one can live forever and continue to build a first class civilization that never ends. This could never be acumplished by this creation. As the great tribulation comes to its end all that is justified has been removed from this earth and all that is left is hate. Love has been removed. This is what Jesus must start with in His reeducation of this world. He has but 1,000 years to give this world one more chance for eternal life. I don't call that being wiped out. I call that pure love for the lost souls who rejected God. They are given one more chance to live forever. There is one advantage the people will have during this 1,000 years period that we do not have today. That advantage is that the king will be visible for all to see and worship.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I don't know though that I agree that there can be no variances in the kingdom of heaven. I suppose it depends upon how we view that kingdom and like Jesus,I don't know as any religion on earth is teaching about the kingdom as it really is, or could teach it for that matter.

I probably did not make myself clear wen i said no variances in the kingdom of heaven. By no variances is meant the true appearance of Jesus as the Word of God. The scriptures do tell us that in the new world all people retain their seed and
names. So in this regard there will be nations of people that retain their likeness of this world.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.