Original Religion

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Islam was the original religion. Islam is more than just a religion, it means submission. Adam submitted to God, so did Enoch and Abraham. They were all Muslim because they submitted to God in Islam.

Do you believe in these lies yourself?
Historical evidence proves that the Islam was "created" +- 700 years after Christ. This means a long long time after the OT was written.
And since the Koran is basicly a bad copy of the OT in the bible, we can safely assume that Islam was not the first religion, not even slightly.
In fact, the Islam would probably do better in a "newest religion" top 3.

www.medmalexperts.com...

You already know Christmas trees and Easter eggs were originally Pagan, and you probably know the traditional mid-winter and spring timing of the two holidays was Pagan too. Mildly interesting. Not what you'll find here.

What you'll discover here is that Christianity inherited everything from the Pagans. The core of Christianity -- the worship of a dying Godman who is resurrected, ascends into heaven and brings salvation to mankind -- was also the core of a number of ancient Pagan religions that began in the Near East two thousand years before Jesus.

Christian theology borrowed more than the archaic myth of the dying-resurrected Godman. Initiation by baptism, communion with the God through a holy meal that represented the flesh of the dead God, the Holy Spirit, monotheism, and immortality of the soul were all core beliefs of many ancient faiths. They were simply part of ancient Mediterranean culture.

Christianity also borrowed elements of Jesus' mythology: the virgin birth, the miracles (including turning water into wine, walking on water, and especially healing the sick) were all common elements of pre-Christian Pagan religions. Mithras had 'em. So did Dionysus, Attis, Osiris, and Orpheus. And more. And they had them centuries before Christianity was a twinkle in Saint Paul's eye.

I believe this should help Jakko.

Dep

www.comereason.org...

The "Pagan Roots" of Holidays
As for some of the other holidays, I think you may have things turned around a bit. Easter is specifically a Christian holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus from the dead (see my article "The Resurrection as History" at www.comereason.org... ). While there are many different types of springtime rituals and celebrations (much of this stemming from the importance of agriculture in the survival), the fact that they occur somewhere around Easter is purely coincidental.

The time of Christ's resurrection is clearly shown in the New Testament to be the Sunday following the Jewish Passover. Jesus was arrested after having celebrated the Passover with His disciples. He was crucified and rose three days later. The fact that in subsequent centuries symbols of some other spring rites such as bunnies and eggs have made their way into the Easter celebration in no way makes the holiday pagan. Many of those symbols are expressions of new life - which certainly fits in with the theme of Easter.

As for some of the other holidays, such as Christmas, Christians didn't allow the pagans to keep their celebrations, but rather provided an alternative to the more popular secular festivals. During the Christmas season, for example, many Christians were uncomfortable with the worship of a pagan god, Mithra (for more on Mithra and Christianity, see Did Christianity Steal From Mithraism?). So the church decided to counter the pagan festival with one of their own, one that celebrates the birth of the true savior. Since no one knows on just which day Jesus was actually born, December 25 worked as well as any other. We see many churches do similar things today in their Harvest festivals; they choose October 31 to create an alternative celebration to Halloween.

Hank Hanegraaff correctly summed up this issue when he wrote, "The real question that must be addressed is, 'What was the church's intent in choosing December 25 for the celebration of Christmas in the first place?' The answer may surprise you! The early church chose this date to point to the triumph that Christ's birth represented over the pagan traditions of the Roman Empire. In other words, the church was not endorsing a pagan ceremony but establishing a rival celebration. Today the world has all but forgotten the pagan gods of Rome. But at least a billion people on planet Earth celebrate the Christ of Christmas."(1)

The Biblical Understanding of Festivals
Ultimately, though it is important to understand what God's word says about how we should approach holidays. Paul shows in Romans 14 that things we would normally consider pagan are not in and of themselves evil. It is really the conscience and motivation of the person that has the real significance. Paul writes "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rom 14:5)

Since most people are not trying to celebrate pagan gods in their celebration of holidays such as Christmas or Easter, but the Lord Jesus, the holidays are not corrupted. Other holidays such as Valentine's day are really cultural celebrations that use established and well-understood symbols like cupid to convey an abstract concept like love. It is only when the holiday celebrates ideas that are counter to the Christian message that they become dangerous.

I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding you may have had over the celebration of holidays. Please let me know if I can be of any more assistance. God bless you in your desire to serve Him.

Yeah, or this.

As for mithraism:
www.comereason.org...

Religion sprouted from hard conditions of the first humans, in their time life and death was a struggle.

From this conditions, the human race, man started to search for the meaning of life. because they did not have clear answers from haven they turned inward and started to answer themself The study of this subject is "astro-theology".

The greatest enemy of ancient man was darkness. They understood that during the day they could hunt, defend themself and see. But at night they were vulnerable so that how the first god was born the god son and the darkness was evil.

Ancient man gorshiped the sun. He was the first God.

Will this make sense.

Forgive me, how could I forget your Christian bias sites

To be quite frank, those do not provide any merit or facts, its just one mans speculation through article.

Christianity in its absolute is derived from pagan beliefs.

Deep

Christianity is a compilation of older beliefs before it became religion, and yes his roots are pagan but some people can not see past their bibles. To me religion is a very interesting subject of study and discussion. I am not religious but I am atracted to how it became so powerful at some time in history. How some people are blinded by it.

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by marg6043]

Then you should read these sites a little bit better, there's a lot more facts in them than in those nice flash-links you pasted, especially the parts regarding mithraism.

And marg, reading past my bible is what made me find answers in the first place. I have questioned my own God a lot of times, but there's enough proof and facts out there to find out Christianity is not based on either paganism or mithraism.

With all do respect, I will not turn this thread into a " origins of Christianity " debate, but I will direct you to this thread which discusses Mythras influence on Christianity.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Deep

Organized religion finds its roots in the ancient Sumer society. Coincidentally this is where the grassroots Illuminati society began to take shape and from there we end up to where we are today with a dozen or so different belief systems, all perpetrated against humanity to keep us in line.

Prior to this I would tend to say that the Pagan belief system dominated those who cared to practice.

My personal views on organized religion will surely insult those who practice.

The first religion was call Astro theology.

Originally posted by Megaquad
Yeah right. Do you need any more evidences that Islam is religion created by devil to oppose christianity?

Matthew 5:43

Love for Enemies

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Quoting the bible isn't proof!!!! It just shows how blind and conditioned you are. Don't quote the bible. Use what you learned from the bible to make reasonable statements to support what you believe. I used to make this mistake too. Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have dark parts to their history and fanatics willing to exploit peoples ignorance to further there cause.

Islam was not created by the devil. Each nation needs it own messenger. Some one who looks like them feels like them and understands the state of life at that particular time. The elite know this and suppress all political prophets. They did it to Jesus and he dies a gruesome death. Then to make even ore of a mockery they focus more on his death than the do his life. The cross was a symbol of roman oppression that was brought about by a man named Consistene(spelled wrong). He had a dream that said under this you will rule. Imagine that, this one mans dream changed to course of human history.

The difference between Mohammad and Jesus is that Mohamed fought back. He conquered many lands but he was always tolerant of other religions as long as they tolerated Islam. Not accepted, tolerated. More than you can say for those catholic priest who persecuted most of and Africa and the Americas.

Open you mind!! I could sit here and tell you all the evil and travesty that your religion and any other religion has caused to the whole world but I would just be wasting my time and energy. We all make choices and a lot of us chose not to understand other people or religions/beliefs . Doing this makes some feel like they are better. Open you mind don't close your heart. Deny ignorance

Originally posted by DaTruth
Quoting the bible isn't proof!!!! It just shows how blind and conditioned you are. Don't quote the bible.

Did you even read his post, or did you stop reading when the bible-verse started? He is pointing out a huge difference between Christianity and the Islam, and it's quite a good point. Your reply, calling him blind and conditioned without even replying to the content of his message, is pretty ignorant.

Islam was not created by the devil.

Created by humans, inspired by the devil.

The difference between Mohammad and Jesus is that Mohamed fought back. He conquered many lands but he was always tolerant of other religions as long as they tolerated Islam. Not accepted, tolerated.

Indeed, this is very logical as well. The purpose of the Islam is to keep people from finding the God of the bible that died for humans sins in the form of Jesus, it does not matter wether people believe in the wrathfull God of the Islam, or wether they believe in any other deceiving religion.

Open you mind!! I could sit here and tell you all the evil and travesty that your religion and any other religion has caused to the whole world but I would just be wasting my time and energy.

Religion itself did not do anything, its followers did a lot of wrong things.
This is the case for Christian followers as well, but you can not value a religion based on the mistake on some of its followers.
If you want to have a serious discussion then refrain from the hysterical "open your mind!!!" apesh!t. That's been said to Christians just too many times whenever they try to make a point and it's not of any use.

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by Jakko]

Islam is the first religion. Islam means submission to one God. When Adam and Eve were created they submitted to one God, their creator, and so did Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and all the other prophets.
Qur'an officialy acknowledges other monotheistic religions as true religions, actually it IS all ONE religion, we all worship the same God. It is one big continuous revelation of God's word. Over the centuries men have corrupted the message over and over again, so God had to send more messengers to correct things.

That's a religious point of view.

As for the atheist one, first religion was probably polytheistic, worshippping of unknown "entities" who control things we cannot explain. It later evolved into monotheistic one which was finaly replaced by Science

In what way is Islam "first"?
I can't think of anything...

Just for the hell of it I ran First Religion through Google and found this interesting bit:

WHAT WAS THE FIRST RELIGION of man? Answers to this question differ widely and depend very much on what view is taken of man's origin. Those who go to the early chapters of the Bible as their source point out that the teaching given there is quite categorical. Religion was not invented, evolved, or discovered by man. From the day of his creation man knew the one Creator-God who had made him, and from the time of his fall man worshipped this God through sacrifice. Monotheism and the practice of animal sacrifice -these, they say, are clearly shown by the Bible to be the twin characteristics of original religion. God was God, and sinful man could not approach him in his own righteousness.

In support of this view it is often pointed out that the most ancient literature of the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Hindus, and the traditions of many races agree that the first men brought animals to represent and substitute for them in their worship of God. As we shall see in chapter 3, there came a time when Buddha in India, Confucius in China, and the Greek philosophers reacted against the animal sacrifices of a corrupt priesthood, and the main non-Christian world religions were built on other premisses. At this stage, however, we are not concerned with the merits or demerits of animal sacrifice. What we are discussing is basically a matter of history, and obviously the evidence provided by the Bible about Man's original religion must be taken seriously.

There is, however, another answer to the question which denies all this. It starts with the view that man evolved from a pre-simian ancestor. Since animals have no religion, there must have been, it is said, a long ascent through apish chatter and fear of the dark unknown to what Bouquet calls 'Animatism', a 'belief in a vague potent, terrifying inscrutable force'.[1] Animatism developed into Animism, the spirit-fearing religion of most isolated tribal people. Then came the Polytheism immortalized in the Greek mythologies. Israel's glory, so this summary of the development of religion suggests, was that she was able to narrow down the many gods of the surrounding nations to one tribal god. And eventually the one Creator-God of the Hebrew prophets, together with the philosophical Monotheism of Plato, paved the way for higher religion.

More:
collection.nlc-bnc.ca...

Jakko, as I said, Islam is not a separate religion, it is the Final Testament of a religion that exists since the creation of human kind. Islam MEANS submission to one God, monotheistic religion. It contains all stories and all prophets starting with Adam and Eve.

And what makes you think that this is the case?
Especially when proof shows us that the Islam was "picked together" 700 years after Christ was born.
They didn't make an original book, they copied half of the OT.

Jakko, that is exactly what I am talking about. Islam is not a new separate religion, it is THE religion, Qur'an is the Final Testament of already existing monotheistic religion.
Muslims don't worship Mohamad, they worship God, and believe in God's word and ALL God's messengers, the most respected of them all being Jesus. I suggest that you read Qur'an, it is a very interesting piece of literature.

You see Islam as a separate religion from all others. As I said already, the word Islam means submission, it is confirmation of all existing religions and prophets. It is God speaking to humans, Qur'an is God's word sent to Muhammad through angel Gabriel.

Edit: Jonna, thats a very interesting link!


[Edited on 26-5-2004 by paperclip]