The Anti-Christian conspiracy, page 5

Originally posted by dbrandt
People have free will. Since we're living after the cross, He will not Force anyone to accept Christ as Savior.

I read you stated that you may be wasting your time, perhaps your edit removed same, perhaps it was on another post, however this is so only if you insist on not logically looking at what you have stated. Let us address your statements and see if in fact they are in agreement with each other, or changing to suit your need.

He will not Force anyone to accept Christ as Savior. God is always trying to grab people's attention and have it turn from off of themselve and onto Him. So if God sets up an "attention getter" the person is totally free to turn toward or away from God.

He it is an attention getter as set up by God. An attention getter by which the person can choose to react to or not.

Previously you claimed:

As a Christian we know everything goes through God first, good things and bad. If it touches us He brought it for a reason.

Which you used in support of:

God allowed an enemy to inflict some terror on the U.S. for a couple of hours and then shut it down, to wake us up.

Now then, analyzing the latter, an enemy of their own freewill decided to inflict harm on the US, which they would have decided to do by their own choosing, and if freewill did indeed exist, then the statement that “god allowed” them to follow through means that he made a decision on that particular freewill plan to not halt it. Your statement then is claiming that he decides which actions man will and will not be permitted to do, and if he decides to either halt an attack or allow one to take place, he is in fact in control of that action.

With regard the former statement; if he has given man freewill, then there is no reason for all of our considered actions to first be screened by him, as there is no purpose to this screening. This then endorses his allowing the attack, it means that when we think of an action, it is immediately screened by him and he then either gives us the go ahead to follow through or not. The freewill therefore cannot be freewill, since what you describe is free thought. By the definition you provide “Done of one's own accord; voluntary” the action is exclusionary of anyone but ourselves.

Now, which is it dbrandt; God “allowed” and therefore decided not to stop the attack, or God stayed out of it because he gave man the exclusive right to act as they deem? It cannot be both if you are a Christian, since you are required to believe in freewill.

You may not realize it but God's standard is perfection. We cannot attain this goal on our own. Some would lead you to believe you can after a certain amount of reincarnated lives or if a leap of "evolution" occurs.
God will allow people to believe that. You can choose that if you want.

That is what has been force-fed you. I will repeat it over and over, God did not grant any man, woman or child, an exclusive pipeline to him over other men, women and children. To believe otherwise is to believe that he placed anyone that is not clergy at a disadvantage when it comes to knowing him. This is the inherent and hard flaw behind religious dogma and the books published in their names. For it means that he gave a minority among us the exclusive right to understand him, and to preach to the rest what that understanding is as though they can somehow cause us to develop what amounts to his gift to them. On top of which, when we don’t God then turns around and blames those not imparted with this gift for not having the gift. It makes absolutely no sense. That is akin to demanding a baby to walk to the fridge for his/her meal when s/he is hungry or suffer the consequences of starvation if s/he will not.

So yes, he is perfection and we have to stop thinking of his ways as being less than perfect, such as outlined above. It does not stand to reason that God would not have implanted with every single one of us the innate sense of himself, and leave it to circumstance and society for others to tell us who and what he is. Every single human being feels the emotions of love or anger at some point of our lives, this is innate, he gave them to us, he planted them within us and it is up to us to get in touch with those and learn how we are effected by same, and all we need do is find his implanted emotion/sense/self in the same way.

The belief that we live only once, sleep/die for thousands of years or even seconds is absolutely ludicrous in that, it presumes first of all that God has pre-determined X number of years for all of mankind to accept him even though he knows that he will be damning most to some furnace, which also suggests that his fuse will either give at some unknown time even to him, or he has X count of people he wants washing his feet. This also pre-supposes that all humans are born without disadvantage. Your belief cannot possibly explain how a baby living for all of one minute could meet the preconceived notion that they exercised freewill to accept God, or what lessons of life or God that baby would have learnt or why he would even give a life to take it back one minute later. Reincarnation does, and makes sense if one truly believes in God’s benevolence. With every life we live, we learn, and we learn what we did not learn previously until we are totally at peace with ourselves and the mysterious of the universe and with God, and we learn this not because we are told we must, or blackmailed into believing that we must, but because we just do, without the aid of external influence, and on our own volition.

It is not God’s plan to exclude any of his children from his house, just as it is not any loving parent’s plan to exclude theirs from their house. We inherently want all that is good and best and upstanding for our children, where we as far as we know have only one shot at that, but God does not, he has as many as he deems necessary to see his children achieve this. Therefore, he would have no qualifying time limit, for time is infinite, after all, he created infinite. We would like to know that we spend our days in eternity with all of our loved ones, why then do some of us presume that God who gave us this quality has a love tap that he can turn off and on at will?

Why wasn't there another tsunami in Indonesia with this last earthquake, did God prevent one.

Our planet is a living system, just as we as humans adjust to our environment so too must our planet adjust to its environment. We humans have grown in size, have an appendix and set of tonsils we know nothing about, which suggests we have gone through some sort of change, so too does our living earth which creates landmass and also destroys same, just as we believe that suns have lived and died, so too must we understand geological changes caused the latter. For all we know, the earth is either reacting to what we humans have done to it, or it too is going through its stages of growth toward death.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by thelibra
True. Which is why I still like to read the Bible despite not being a Christian. It's a good book. It has some really useful information, and some good ideas. It has bad ideas too, but many of them are good. I'm not bashing Jesus or the Bible, I'm bashing the people who commit atrocities in the name of Christianity.

I'd be interested in hearing the bad ideas sometime.

(grins) Still haven't had a chance to type them up, but as today is dog slow at the office, I'll do so as my next post, with verses to back it up.

Originally posted by TheTruth123
The reality is NEW age secularism vs christianity.

Secularism : Supports anal shaffing, lesbianism, witchcraft, femism dating life, having alot of sexual parnters, women being the same as men. Killing unborn babies to baal, ritual scarfice killing people that can't feed themselves, worshiping the dollar, supporting immperisalism and destruction of marrige, into orgies.

US contitution is SECULARIST religion. The founding father's were not christian's but anti-christian. They had the christian ideology so they created their own SECULARISM. Which i described on the top.

My god, I hope you're being sarcastic. Where the hell are you getting this? Did you even watch the last U.S. election poll results? The Moral Majority won! (tries to swallow rising bile). We'll be lucky if science and sex aren't illegal by 2008! I say this jokingly, of course, but marriage is in no way trying to be destroyed by the U.S. Legislators. If anything, it's being fortified with their own narrow-minded views of what marriage should be.

As for these things you consider to be sexual deviance, it's real simple: don't do it or watch it if it offends you. I myself have quite a large number of close gay and bisexual friends, but I have no interest gay culture. As in, I don't like "Will & Grace", feel no obligation to march in a parade, and have zero interest in going to any drag queen contests, yet one of my best friends does all the above as well as things I'd rather not think about. So why am I this person's friend? Two reasons: One, because they are a good, reliable, intelligent, and moral person who has repeatedly proven themselves to me (qualities I'd demand of any friend). Two, because what someone does with their personal sex life is their own business, not mine, not yours, and not the government's. THAT last part, about it not being anyone's business, THAT is what the American founding fathers intended.

As for the baby-killing, and baal worshiping, I suggest you step away from whatever you're reading and come see a little reality for yourself. I've never even had communication with a single person in America who thought that baby killing was a good idea, or who worshipped Baal, and I can't recall even hearing of someone who did either. Ritual sacrifice, I've heard of, but never known anyone who thought it was a good idea, and those people are considered just as evil and terrible in our country as yours.

As for women being the same as men... Perhaps you'd rather your woman be servile, wait on you hand and foot, keep her face hidden behind a head scarf when around anyone else's presence but yours, stay home, cook, and make babies? Then find a woman who will agree to it, and live that lifestyle. But trying to impose that belief on the rest of the world is neither your right, nor mine. You can live your life however you want in America, no one forces you to do anything except let other people live their own lives. How is that evil?

And suggesting that Imperialism was ever the intention of our founding fathers is just downright ignorant. It's documented over and over and over through history that we were founded on an isolationist policy, and it wasn't until the rest of the world begged us to help out in the first World War that we became involved in warfare on a global scale. Even then, we tried to return to an isolationist policy, and found that the world would not let us.

I will freely admit that I feel like there are many theaters of war that we had or have no business being in. One of which was the most recent Iraq war. That is, however, my opinion, and I am not privy to either the future, or the secrets held in the Pentagon that made those final decisions. And I dont' think it was right of us to change the government of another country that isn't ours, either. I would even go so far as to admit Bush shows lots of signs of an imperialist, which angers just as many Americans as it does the rest of the world (don't forget, almost half the nation voted against him). However, he will be gone in a little less than three years, and after all the crappy foreign policy, I'd be willing to bet the next President thinks very carefully before ever invading another nation.

In other words, I don't agree with everything our country does. In some cases, I'm downright angry by it. But to espouse that we are a bunch of baby-killing, baal-worshiping, imperialistic sexual deviants is not only ignorant, it's ridiculous to anyone who has ever been to America. It'd be like me saying that the Middle East is full of bomb-swallowing oil barons who worship cars and keep harems of battered women.

Originally posted by TheTruth123
This secularist empire is infecting europe, and now trying to infect the middleast.

It's not corruption. No one puts a gun to your head and says that you have to participate in a particular lifestyle. Heck, you can even organize a protest group and call them names, if you want. That's one of the beauties of Freedom. Anyone can like or dislike whomever they want, publicly. But if you ever want to live in a country with basic human rights, you must respect their right to have their own life and lifestyle as well. Sure, you might have to deal with the fact that one day some race or gender you dislike might be your boss in your job, but another beauty of freedom is that you can quit! If your bigotry is so precious to you, then you can walk out of your workplace, or the place you do business with, and find another one. And the beauty of capitalism is that you actually have a selection to choose from. While bigotry might limit your choices of how you live your lifestyle, it is a self-imposed limit that you chose to adopt.

The fact is that freedom does not take away from how you want to live your life, it only adds more possibilities for people who don't want to live it like you do.

Originally posted by TheTruth123
Just watch the OC and see the preaching piest hollywood, telling young females to lye in bed with women, like they do to their husbands.

That's called TV Fiction. Frankly, most of it sickens me. I think the show "Desperate Housewives" is an abomination, personally. So you know what I do? This will blow your mind... I DON'T WATCH IT! I change the channel if I stumble across it, and I watch something less offense to me, such as the Chapelle Show. That's another benefit of freedom. Yes, Hollywood produces a lot of crap, but it is not a religion, it's just a money-making tool. Make something shocking enough, and sheep will watch it. Don't want to contribute to them? Don't be a sheep!

And guess what? Freedom gives people the chance to not be a sheep.

So anyway, in conclusion, either you're a troll or you're ignorant of the facts. Either way, I've had a lot of fun arguing with you.

[edit on 4/1/2005 by thelibra]