Originally posted by spamandham
Unless of course, they are. The Catholic church considers itself the ultimate authority, not the Bible.

(to be fair, salvation by works is not part of the Catholic faith, but a lot of Catholic laymen seem to think it is)

Learn something new everday. Just to be fair though, there are many Protestants who seem to think so too.

[edit on 25-10-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by apocalypticon
Hey Saint4God,

I haven't posted enough to be able to reply to your u2u, but the answer is "Yes" and no, I don't mind you asking How about you?

The mods may doc me points for this, but I didn't want to leave your question unanswered.

No hurries no worries. I've got another when you have a chance to reply, incoming!


[edit on 25-10-2005 by saint4God]

One can give without loving, but not love without giving. A tree can be known by the fruit it bears. From the heart comes the love that inspires the acts of kindness, charity, help, and sacrifice. It is possible to do good works in the pursuit of selfish goals. As it is also possible to do harm unintentionally while trying to be helpful. It is my view that the spirit of a persons actions is most important, and that the best deeds are done in a spirit of selflessness, service, sacrifice, modesty, and love. Unconditional love, and giving without expectations are true love, to me.

Man,

I'm sick of the replies from you Christians. It seems like all y'all want to do is whine and have someone feel sorry for you. Stop crying about a conspiracy, it's pathetic!

See, I told y'all cats about a REAL conspiracy, but all y'all wanna do is whine about how everyone's persecuting you and out to get you. And that was only Saint, everybody else was hush mouth. It went something like this...

Truthseeka: "Hey, guys, the govt's trying to make the NT hate speech!

Saint: "Well, the Jews didn't kill Jesus, we all did."

Truthseeka: "But, but, they tried to give Christians 47 years in prison for protesting a gay parade..."

Saint: "Well, we don't know all the facts here, maybe there's another reason they got in trouble."

Well, you get the idea. I mention real fishy stuff, but no one wants to talk about it. But, if someone says it's prophecy, people don't like us, oh, boy, a real conspiracy.



You Christians are too funny. This must be one of the reasons few take you seriously...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Truthseeka: "But, but, they tried to give Christians 47 years in prison for protesting a gay parade..."

Saint: "Well, we don't know all the facts here, maybe there's another reason they got in trouble."

After reading more into that event, I believe there was physical obstruction and infridgement on the parade's right to safe passage in a public setting and their right to free speech. No matter what your belief system is, in this country that's illegal. It wasn't a "targeting against Christians" nor do I feel the Christians had conducted themselves properly in this incidence. In this case, I see no conspiracy.

Where I do see the anti-Christian sentiments (a precursor to conspiracy) is in your language of "you Christians" and verbs such as "whining" and "crying" to describe people speaking on a particular belief. What do you mean exactly by "you Christians"? And, why is our exercise of free speech "whining" while the gay parade is "exercising their rights"? Do you see the double-standard yet?


[edit on 31-10-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God


After reading more into that event, I believe there was physical obstruction and infridgement on the parade's right to safe passage in a public setting and their right to free speech. No matter what your belief system is, in this country that's illegal. It wasn't a "targeting against Christians" nor do I feel the Christians had conducted themselves properly in this incidence. In this case, I see no conspiracy.

Where I do see the anti-Christian sentiments (a precursor to conspiracy) is in your language of "you Christians" and verbs such as "whining" and "crying" to describe people speaking on a particular belief. What do you mean exactly by "you Christians"? And, why is our exercise of free speech "whining" while the gay parade is "exercising their rights"? Do you see the double-standard yet?


[edit on 31-10-2005 by saint4God]

Ok, "you Christians" means, well, you Christians replying to this board. Ain't nothing anti-Christian about that. If you ask me, YOU'RE anti-Christian for not looking into a fact-based conspiracy against your religion. I ain't a Christian, but I'm giving y'all a fact-based conspiracy; all y'all wanna do is give a faith-based argument.

Whining and crying is what y'all are doing. Instead of looking into real stuff that will eventually affect y'all, y'all wanna talk about the end of the world and persecution. They've been saying the end is near since Jesus' time. That's why I used those verbs.

And the right to free speech, you gotta be joking. You STILL see no conspiracy? We have a first amendment, yet there were "free speech zones" during the inauguration. The govt can limit free speech, but if Christian citizens do it, they get 47 years. Are you paying attention?

47 YEARS!!!

Even if there was physical conflict, 47 years?!?! You can get less than that for killing people.

Whatever, it's your problem. Keep pulling the wool over your eyes...

link the article you're referring to. It seems we're reading about 2 different events.

Hay, Saint4God Is Truthseeka tiring to save us from something that I Don't know about.

If he has something we need to know, why is he saying it in such am Angry way, He sounds so mad at us..

I have read some of his thoughts here and other threads and it seams that he really doesn't want to help us or even like us, At lest that is the way I see him when he is trying to help us so much.

Just to be safe and for not the argument and the bad tone I see in his threads, I won't talk to him and maybe he'll leave me alone in what I like to talk about...

Originally posted by jfdarby
Hay, Saint4God Is Truthseeka tiring to save us from something that I Don't know about.

If he has something we need to know, why is he saying it in such am Angry way, He sounds so mad at us..

S/he is mad at us, but it's misdirected anger. Once you get used to that, it's a lot easier to work with. Truthseeka's uncle is a baptist minister (check me on that Truthseeka if I'm not right) and something doesn't click right or something went wrong where God became the blame. I don't know what it is yet, but I'm hoping someday s/he'll open up and share with us what that is.

Originally posted by jfdarby
I have read some of his thoughts here and other threads and it seams that he really doesn't want to help us or even like us, At lest that is the way I see him when he is trying to help us so much.

I get that impression too.

Originally posted by jfdarby
Just to be safe and for not the argument and the bad tone I see in his threads, I won't talk to him and maybe he'll leave me alone in what I like to talk about...

My friend jfdarby, I have a question. Supposing you and a friend were in a canoe. Your friend, who was unable to swim, fell out. When you offer your hand, he yells at you that it was your fault that he fell out. What would you do?

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
S/he is mad at us, but it's misdirected anger. Once you get used to that, it's a lot easier to work with.

yeah people are only ever mad at christians

that's the one thing i hate about christians, you act like people are only ever mad at you, and this in some way means there's an anti-christian conspiracy, hence proves somewhere in the bible that it's true because this is how christians would be treated...jesus christ, get a grip people, this is reality, stop living in your dreamworlds, you're going to die and that's it, get used to it, your beliefs are pathetic.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
that's the one thing i hate about christians,

Person with misdirected anger #2. Anyone else?

Why do I say misdirected? Shaunybaby, what have I personally done to you (personally) that would cause any kind of hate whatsoever?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
you act like people are only ever mad at you, and this in some way means there's an anti-christian conspiracy, hence proves somewhere in the bible that it's true because this is how christians would be treated...

Actually per my posts, I point out who the "anti-Christians" were. I don't believe you were part of that group. I do think it ripples out into some anti-Christian sentiments that's picked up by society.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
jesus christ,

Yah, know him, trust him.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
get a grip people, this is reality, stop living in your dreamworlds, you're going to die and that's it, get used to it, your beliefs are pathetic.

Well, no Anti-Christian sentiments here I guess . Time to move along.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by saint4God]

that's the one thing i hate about christians, you act like people are only ever mad at you, and this in some way means there's an anti-christian conspiracy, hence proves somewhere in the bible that it's true because this is how christians would be treated...jesus christ, get a grip people, this is reality, stop living in your dreamworlds, you're going to die and that's it, get used to it, your beliefs are pathetic.

#1-Not all Christians act as if people are mad at them, and they are being attacked or persecuted for their beliefs. Yes, they get this "reading" from Christ, however many Christians do not quite interpret the words of Christ in this way.

#2-I don't like to say this, but your tone certainly justifies. Reality? Dreamworld? Gonna die and that's it? Hmmm...what is reality and what is illusion? What is "dreamworld"? Do you not believe in yourself?

My reading indicates that perhaps your "beliefs" need a little looking at by yourself. Seems one doesn't believe in his/her self, and therefore tries to justify that lack of belief into attacking a group of people clumped together under one "umbrella".

Step back Shauny and try to justify why something that is 70% water, walks, talks, breathes, and "thinks", much less has the ability to call others "pathetic".

Hey – don’t jump all over Truthseeka and Shauny for lumping you all together as “you Christians”

They are just dishing out the same thing that “you Christians” have been dishing out for centuries.

It sucks to be lumped in with something that’s seen as “BAD” these days, doesn’t it?

*****In this post, when I refer to “you Christians” – I’m talking about the ones that take it WAY too far, the overzealous fundamentalists that are giving the WHOLE Christian religion a bad name. NOT necessarily anyone in this thread.*****

Just like all “you Christians” have lumped together all homosexuals in with the stereotype of the “evil, child molesting, drug addicted, wild sex orgy every night, satan worshipping, infant sacrificing, dancing naked under the full moon on a pentagram” gays.

I know that was a ‘slight’ exaggeration, but sometimes, that’s what it feels like ALL “you Christians” think of all homosexuals. I walk around with my head down, afraid to make eye contact with most anyone, not because I’m ashamed of being gay, but because I know how most of the world thinks of gay people. I don’t feel I’ve done anything in my time on earth so far to deserve being thought of like that – But my kind have been demonized for so long that it’s “just normal” for most people to think of us as evil, worthless creatures that don’t deserve to share the same planet with you “worthy people.” (and that’s not just based on how Christians think of us, but most every culture)

“You Christians” protesting at Gay pride parades? – One day, “you Christians” will be looked back upon just like today’s society thinks of the KKK protesting black equality back during the struggle to end segregation. Besides, the best way for “you Christians” to stop gay pride parades is to ignore them. The only reason they feel the need to have those parades it to stop people like “you Christians” from trying to keep us from being equal.

I know “you Christians” can’t see it from your point of view – but all your “witnessing” comes across as arrogant, holier-than-thou, zealous, sanctimonious, “I’m so much better than you are and you’re all going to hell in a hand-basket” babbling. We know not all of you necessarily mean it that way – and a few of you do – but that’s not how you reach out to someone. We also know that “you Christians” think you’re helping, but for FAITH BASED help you have to let those that want it come to you . Try reaching out to others by showing that you care and being available to help when they’re ready for it, not by forcing others to follow your ways and telling them they’re going to hell if they don’t.

All "you Christians" seem to be saying to me is that I 'chose' to be gay, that I turned my back on my Southern Baptist upbringings, that I'm an EVIL sinner and I'm going to hell just for being who I am. Most anyone that grew up in a religious family AND will admit to being gay has done PLENTY of soul searching and gone through the grief, shame, denial, self-loathing and isolation that comes with anything that people look down on you for - I've spent YEARS of my life praying for God to take this away from me, or go on and kill me if he won't, praying for just ONE brief moment when I can look at a girl and think "hmmm, that's attractive" - one fraction of a second where I felt "normal" and like I belonged here. But it never came - and after years of waiting, I finally accepted that I was what I was and I'd better start moving forward instead of waiting for some magical clutch to pop. That was just a few months before all the re-election crap started, and half of the people in the USA started to show their homophobic colors. I had some faith in humanity and thought that all the homophobia and 'damnation' was just a bunch of hype and rumors that were spread to keep us in the closet, but when the whole 'gay marriage' controversy came out, I saw just how real it was - That's when I lost my faith in humanity and had never before wished so much I would just go on and die. I'd never done any of the demonizing stuff that preachers and politicians said 'gays' did - and I was mad at those gays that did some of that stuff for giving ALL of us a bad name - But what was the point of fighting it? I'd already been judged just by identifying as gay - When I kept it to myself, I felt like a liar - when I told people, I felt like a sneezing leper with the 'bird flu' - I wanted to take it all back, go back in time and never admit to anyone what I was - once I came out, there was no going back, so basically, I screwed myself by being honest - and it's HORRIBLE! - not so much the being gay, just knowing what SO MANY of "you Christians" think of me.

OK – now that you see how it feels to be lumped together with ALL the bad stuff, when you feel you’re only a part of the good stuff – imagine how it feels when it’s done to others.

When it comes to one group persecuting another – think about this :

Racists don’t see anything wrong with thinking of another race as inferior, “designed” as slaves or that they should be exterminated.

*****Racist people don’t think of themselves as doing anything wrong – they think they are right.

Chauvinists don’t see anything wrong with thinking of women as property, servants “created” just for their pleasure and beating the crap out of them when they don’t obey.

*****Sexist people don’t think of themselves as doing anything wrong – they think they are right.

Gay bashers don’t see anything wrong with thinking of gays as sub-human, disease carriers – unable to be part of a family and only good for tying to a fence and getting beaten to death.

*****Homophobic people don’t think of themselves as doing anything wrong – they think they are right.

Zealous Christians don’t see anything wrong with looking down on others and judging everyone as unworthy – those of the past saw nothing wrong with burning someone at the stake just for being different.

*****Zealots don’t think of themselves as doing anything wrong . . . They think they are right.


Not all gay people are bad – some are, but not because they are gay.

Not all Christians are hateful, intolerant fanatics – some are, but not because they are Christian.

ALL people, the way they love AND they way they hate - learn it from somewhere, sadly, most people learned how to hate at church.

So – to all the good intentioned, mainstream Christians – Instead of trying to save all the ‘evil’ gays – start thinking about your religion’s future and what you want “you Christians” to mean down the road. In 50 years, when someone refers to “you Christians”, do you want it to come across with the same inflection as “the KKK” or “racists” or “bigots” ? I don’t think that’s what any of you want, but if the current tensions between Religion and Society don’t ease off a little, that’s what going to happen.


[edit on 11/3/05 for spelling errors by paulthefourth]

[edit on 11/3/05 for spelling errors by paulthefourth]

[edit on 11/3/05 by paulthefourth]

This "Christian" and millions such as myself DO NOT huddle under the umbrella that you are hitting. We are not judgemental, are tolerant, and really don't like the tone and interpretation of the fundamentalists.

There are, again, MILLIONS such as myself out there.

Your decision is your decision that all must and should respect. I and the millions like myself have no qualms with you. GOD can be the only judge, and he also is a tolerant fellow despite what many attempt to teach.

Good luck to you my friend.

Thank you

I know that the majority of people that consider themselves Christian are not the overbearing fundamentalist zealots that I spoke about in my last post. That was kinda the point of what I was trying to make.

But the world is paying much more attention to those people than they should - and if the millions of decent Christians don't start to squelch the hate that is being spewed from the pulpits of those fundies, then the whole Christian religion is going to suffer. It will become a laughable "cult" if the whole world sees all "you Christians" as Falwells and Phelps’s and Robertsons.

It's the same phenomenon that millions of regular, everyday homosexuals are suffering from - The world will only pay attention to the few "bad apple" homosexuals, which I agree can be too much to put up with - but when that's what everyone thinks we're ALL like, the good one's suffer the backlash.

Most of us just want to do the same things that any other couples get to do - meet, date, fall in love, propose, marry, go on a honeymoon, have or adopt children, put up with diapers and 3 am feedings and suffer through "Barny the dinosaur" 5 million times, be there for the first day of school, wipe the tears and put a Band-Aid on a boo-boo, have birthday parties and sleepovers and worry like hell the first night they have a driver's license, help them through the troubled teenage years, be proud at graduation, pull our hair out over college tuition, and watch them begin the same journey that we started years before. That's it - nothing evil or sinister - just a normal family - same as any other. And contrary to popular belief, LOVE makes a family - not 1 man + 1 woman and the 2.7 children 'they' say 'makes a family' (I feel sorry for that .7 of a child - poor little thing)

We should be able to do all of that, with all the same legal benefits that ANY OTHER couple gets - all the protections, and automatic legalities that come with the forming of ANY family. Sadly, we have to fight for these rights in a country where "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is supposed to be for everybody - but unfortunately, most think it only applies if you're straight, Christian and independently wealthy. We're all supposed to be equal in this country, which mean LEGALLY equal - Most gays couldn't care less if the church wont recognize their union - some want that, and can find a church that will bless their union, others just want to be LEGALLY recognized as a family unit - and why shouldn't we? Me personally, with the backlash we're seeing from most religions, there's no way in h - e - double-hockey-sticks that I'd want the "okay" from a church to say my love is valid. I already know my love is true and 'valid' - and stronger than 50% of "normal" marriages today (divorce rate anyone?)

I know most believe that there are "more" gays these days, but there aren't - just more that aren't too afraid to admit it - We're getting tired of being marginalized and locked in the imaginary closet and want everyone to know that we're people too - we feel the same emotions everyone else does - and we hurt, just like any other group that has been treated like that.

Here's where I'm in a pickle - I'm gay AND a Christian - My whole family's Christian - ALL Southern Baptists too - My immediate family says they don't have a 'problem' with me - but I know to some of them, they are ashamed of me, I don’t get told which Aunt's house Christmas Dinner is at anymore, they act like I've 'hurt' them on purpose by 'choosing' to do this - I'm still told constantly that "You'll find the 'right girl' one day and get married" - but they don't realize that the 'right girl' for me is a guy, and I've already found him! - I don't know if there's any way they can ever get it through their head that this isn't a 'phase', I'm not 'rebelling' against anything, and that the love of the 'right girl' is NOT going to 'fix' me. They act like my wanting EQUAL rights is going to ruin the 'sanctity' of their marriage, when their attitudes are ruining the sanctity of my love. From my less religious family, including my Pop - I’ve been told that all I need is some ‘p*ssy’ and that will ‘fix everything’ – and I’m expected to just stand there and take it – How would they react if I told one of my straight uncles that all he need’s is some ‘c*ck’, then he’ll be ‘tolerant’ – yeah, riiiiiiiiight. That would go over splendidly. (And I don’t believe that either, just illustrating a point)

I don’t want to change their sexual orientation, I just want them to tolerate mine – and not look at me like I’m a freak or avoid me like they think I’m ‘contagious’ or something – I have no STD’s or any other communicable diseases, but they act around me as if they need to be wearing a Nuclear Bio-Hazard Protective suit. I love my family – but I don’t know how much longer I can put up with just taking all the ‘superiority’ from them, whether they actively show it or not, I know that it’s there. And that breaks my heart more than anything. It breaks my Mother’s heart – not that I’m gay, I know she’s OK with it, but the way she sees her ‘baby’ being treated – I don’t even want to be around her sometimes because I know how much it hurts her inside to see my hurt – and NONE of this should even be an issue – It’s not like I’m a murderer or a rapist or a child molester, but she knows that most people think of me the same way as they think of them.

**********

To the Christians that see themselves or their religion as being persecuted or feel there's a 'conspiracy' to remove your Christianity - you probably feel that way because of the backlash of society telling all those fundamentalists that they are getting too big for their britches, and need to 'simmer down now' - I would imagine you feel like regular, everyday Christians that are suffering for what those 'well intentioned, but off-their-rocker' zealots are doing to your religion. Too bad those are the one's that the world pays attention to.

For all the Christians that love their religion, who want to worship and live as they see fit, say 'grace' in a public restaurant without everyone looking at you like you're weirdoes, talk to others about their religion without getting their head bit off, - PLEASE realize that you're not the only one's that are asking for the same thing - We all want to live the way we want to, but we're going to have to reach some kind of compromise for us all to get along in a place where we're all SUPPOSED to be legally equal.

Originally posted by saint4God
Person with misdirected anger #2. Anyone else?

how can it be misdirected, when it's directed at something specific?

Why do I say misdirected? Shaunybaby, what have I personally done to you (personally) that would cause any kind of hate whatsoever?

i watched a program on some hindu festival, and some people believe they need to do certain things to rid themselves of sins from passed lives. one act is they put cow pats around themselves in a circle, set alight the cow pats, and sit in the circle for 3 hours a day for a given period of time, to liberate themselves from sin. now this doesn't cause any kind of hatred within me, it strikes me as an insane belief, and these people are on the verge of masturbating in their own faecal matter and being institutionalised. the sheer stupidity of these beliefs drives me insane.

Actually per my posts, I point out who the "anti-Christians" were. I don't believe you were part of that group. I do think it ripples out into some anti-Christian sentiments that's picked up by society.

but why is this anti-christianity a conspiracy? just because someone doesn't like christianity doesn't mean it's a conspiracy.

Well, no Anti-Christian sentiments here I guess . Time to move along.

always time to move along, as you know i'm right, hence the moving along before you realise.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
how can it be misdirected, when it's directed at something specific?

You'd mention the things you hate about Christians. I am a Christian, erego when you throw that hate into the pile, it lands on me too. Your issue isn't even with Christians my friend, it's with what God said/did/is, so it sounds to me like you're lashing out on His followers. Hence the misdirected anger.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Why do I say misdirected? Shaunybaby, what have I personally done to you (personally) that would cause any kind of hate whatsoever?

i watched a program on some hindu festival, and some people believe they need to do certain things to rid themselves of sins from passed lives. one act is they put cow pats around themselves in a circle, set alight the cow pats, and sit in the circle for 3 hours a day for a given period of time, to liberate themselves from sin. now this doesn't cause any kind of hatred within me, it strikes me as an insane belief, and these people are on the verge of masturbating in their own faecal matter and being institutionalised. the sheer stupidity of these beliefs drives me insane.

I ask again, what have I personally done to you (personally) that would cause any kind of hate whatsoever?

As far as the response you'd given, not only do I not know where it came from, I have no idea where it's going.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Actually per my posts, I point out who the "anti-Christians" were. I don't believe you were part of that group. I do think it ripples out into some anti-Christian sentiments that's picked up by society.

but why is this anti-christianity a conspiracy? just because someone doesn't like christianity doesn't mean it's a conspiracy.

I know that. There's two things going on. The anti-Christians, and the influence of the anti-Christians. I can clearly pin out who the anti-Christians are and what they're conspiring against (as mentioned earlier in the thread). I hadn't met very many anti-Christians on ATS, but this place is chock full of residue/influence.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Well, no Anti-Christian sentiments here I guess . Time to move along.

always time to move along, as you know i'm right, hence the moving along before you realise.

I don't like being non-progressive, but if you think it's progressive, okay, we can revisit the same arguments over and over again. My point was it is clear to me that you have anti-Christian sentiments (not saying you're an anti-Christian yourself). If I'm wrong feel free to correct.


[edit on 4-11-2005 by saint4God]

All Hail the new Apostle saint4God,
Take away your Hate my friend,
only god can judge you my friend,
I shall pray for all the lost souls?

Give us a break!, fine all ppl have the right to believe what they want to,
but what bugs me about some Christians, are there self rightous, patting on the head, matter of fact way they talk to ppl who dont believe in christianity, you say things like: " you belive in your own path my friend, but dont forget that God will judge you? " you Patronise ppl who hold a different view, and fool yourself into a dilousion of authority, and let me tell you that there's no hatred in my heart, just disapointment.
Your a defender of your faith, tapping his fingers on his computer desk dribbling with anticipation waiting to correct differing opinions,

Originally posted by saint4God
Your issue isn't even with Christians my friend, it's with what God said/did/is, so it sounds to me like you're lashing out on His followers.

it's not with god because there is no god.

in the same way you believe in christianity, another believes in islam and another in hinduism, people like rap music, rock music and pop music. i actually like all music because i'm learning to be a studio engineer, hence i can't have any bias opinions about music genres. however, many people often just prefer one type of music, whether it's rap or rock, it doesn't matter, what's important is that they 'prefer' one type. the same as you prefer christianity, to say a person who prefers hinduism. matter of fact you have a bias opinion saint because you 'prefer' christianity over other faiths(genres). just because a person likes rap(christianity) doesn't mean that it's the 'best' type or 'right' type, but it's that person's prefered choice.

this leads us back to religions as mere 'prefered choices'. not neccesarily any truth, but just 'prefered choices' that people have built up in their bias opinions over a certain time period of their life. in the same way people have their prefered choices of music genres. or maybe no one gets what i'm saying here...

I ask again, what have I personally done to you (personally) that would cause any kind of hate whatsoever?

i think 'iamian' summed up what you 'personally' do.

I know that. There's two things going on. The anti-Christians, and the influence of the anti-Christians. I can clearly pin out who the anti-Christians are and what they're conspiring against (as mentioned earlier in the thread). I hadn't met very many anti-Christians on ATS, but this place is chock full of residue/influence.

my life is influenced by one person alone...me. that's what you fail to see, and fail to understand, it's a shame you have to base you life on pretend beings, fictional characters, fairy tales and fables.

this place is full of monotonous bible cheerleaders. you own paranoia leads you to believe there is some sort of underground anti christian conspiracy influece leaking in to the population of ATS.

I don't like being non-progressive, but if you think it's progressive, okay, we can revisit the same arguments over and over again. My point was it is clear to me that you have anti-Christian sentiments (not saying you're an anti-Christian yourself). If I'm wrong feel free to correct.

your bible tells me i'm going to hell...you telling me that's not anti atheism?

Originally posted by iamian
Give us a break!, fine all ppl have the right to believe what they want to,
but what bugs me about some Christians, are there self rightous, patting on the head, matter of fact way they talk to ppl who dont believe in christianity, you say things like: " you belive in your own path my friend, but dont forget that God will judge you? " you Patronise ppl who hold a different view, and fool yourself into a dilousion of authority, and let me tell you that there's no hatred in my heart, just disapointment.
Your a defender of your faith, tapping his fingers on his computer desk dribbling with anticipation waiting to correct differing opinions,

finally some sense on this board!!

I read the first couple of entries and I am wondering if any one even understands christianity.

First of all, christ is the very foundation of christianity. It is still the true faith. Churches and Religions of Christ where built on this very foundation.
But, through the evildoings on Man. christianty has been forgotten. Don't condemn Christianity itself or you condemn Jesus. God warns of false profits and leaders of the churches. And Jesus promise to come back and restore Christianity. Another thing Christianity was and has always been the true faith, even before jews. That is why in the OT His birth is foretold.