Originally posted by jake1997
You have to go out of the way to find christianity on tv.

Look at it from this angle for a second.

IF
God is the creator of mankind and everything fundi's are saying s true...then what do you think he thinks about mainstream tv and media?
OUr abortion laws
Terry shivo
promotion of secularism

Just for a second, (humor me) look at it from that angle, and then compare how much your creator is actually honored by everyone in society compared to what is due.

"If' is a two letter word that truly streatches the imagination.

For example..."if' fundis are wrong then their entire economical establishment falls apart. And they are wrong by the way, as are all like minded sects.

I cannot humour you when it comes to my creator, for he is not, first of all; honoured by everyone in society, since, he has been relegated to persona non grata by false religions, christianity the leader among them, and secondly, not everyone honours a creator. But to think otherwise is only the delusion of Christians, so I find nothing humourous about your accepting pagan gods in place of the one true god, and they are pagan. The instant you preach anything from The Bible, you preach paganism.

Fortunately for you, the one true and real god has no desire to give you only one life unless same has reached his state, so even your pagan beliefs in a human god and its human concepts are just a lower rung of learning in God's plan for every man woman and child. The longer you hold fast to other beliefs, the longer it will take you to climb the ladder.

Happy Constantine day.

Somewhere is a wise man, indeed.

The fact is that Christians in this world today had better think long and hard - pray even harder - because there is a strong possibillity that their strongly held beliefs actually profane God by glorifying this man Jesus. I'm not saying that's absolutely true but careful study shows that there is more than a reasonable doubt that the Jesus they worship is not the son of God, did not perform true miracles, did not rise from the dead, and did not ascend into heaven. They may find that their immortal souls have been tricked by a vile and corrupt organization of men hungry for power, glory, and most of all money.

Study the lives of those who codified your religious beliefs - these were murderous, thieving humans! Men who thought nothing of raising armies to slaughter those (men, women, and children) who disagreed with them and, while they were about it, they didn't mind sacking and looting in the name of their God. Are these the kind of men who you trust with the word of God? Sorry, I cannot follow the gods of men like this.

Maybe someday God will show me the special places in Hell where he keeps about a hundred or so popes roasting.

Dont be too upset, I didnt really like the second and third Matrix films either or the book To Kill a Mocking Bird either. The diffence is I dont have to deal with sensless moronic supporters of these works of fiction trying to tell me how to live.

Not to point fingers at any religion, but any religion that supresses it's people is bad, a religion that feeds people false science is evil.

I prefer a relgion that can co-exist with the scientific establishment.

What?? No replies to my post? I thought so...

It's funny that the Christians here can go on and on about how their faith is the right one, yet they refrain from addressing the fact that their leaders are the ones promoting the anti-Christian agenda. Maybe y'all don't believe me...that's not surprising, since y'all take the Bible as the direct Word of God...

Seriously, though, this $hit is real. All of the "Christian conservatives" are responsible for the attack on Christianity. Do you see Muslim countries arresting Christians for protesting at a gay parade? Do you see Buddhists arresting Christians for reading passages from the Bible that condemn homosexuality? Do you hear Jewish organizations calling for the torture of Christians? I thought so...

If you weren't ever good at connect the dots, I'll help you out...all the aforementioned things are going on IN THE US!!! THE Christian country, supposedly! Again, I have told you who has the anti-Christian agenda, but I'm sure you won't respond. Oh well, it ain't my faith being attacked. Just keep going to your churches, which are becoming tools of the UN more and more...

Originally posted by truthseeka
First off, how can Christianity be the ONE true religion when JESUS wasn't even a Christian?

I thought this was a rhetorical question, but if you're really looking for the answer then the answer is Christ was trying to get people back to God, not religion. Christianity is about everything Jesus taught us about God including himself. Christianity was not a 'brand new' religion, it was getting the religion back on track. Jesus said he was not here to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Thus he did exemplify the Ten Commandments, reviewed, revisited, explained and identified how they're to work as part of our thinking, not an in-depth situational law study as it came to be.

Originally posted by truthseeka
That said, this post does have a good point. There IS an anti-Christian agenda in the US today. And guess what: it's your precious "Christian conservatives" who are behind it!!

Uh, what? That doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by truthseeka
There is an attack on Christianity today, but it is because of your so-called leaders. If you can't accept that, stop crying about it...

Perhaps if you can give some kind of at least rationale as to why this would be the case, we could discuss in detail. Who's crying? Why is it when a Christian flags a conspiracy it's crying, but when anyone else does it's a prejudical crime against humanity?

[edit on 29-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by truthseeka
All of the "Christian conservatives" are responsible for the attack on Christianity. Do you see Muslim countries arresting Christians for protesting at a gay parade? Do you see Buddhists arresting Christians for reading passages from the Bible that condemn homosexuality? Do you hear Jewish organizations calling for the torture of Christians?

I don't think muslims countries would allow a gay parade to even get out of the planning committee.

So I don't quite understand. Are you saying that by stating what we believe is truth from the Bible, and in some cases making a physical presence known during something we think is wrong, brings upon christians a response that we have ourselves to blame for?

I'll wait for a response but also add that one reason christians are becoming more vocal is(this is in my case anyway) 9/11 woke us up. From a christian perspective God allowed an enemy to inflict some terror on the U.S. for a couple of hours and then shut it down, to wake us up. The effects are still being felt though. This nation has been drifting from Him for a long time. In the Bible God tells Israel if you trust and follow me when an enemy of 1000 comes at you it will only take 100 to make him flee and but if you leave me it will only take 100 of them to make 1000 of you flee(I've got the numbers wrong, but look at the point). It only took 19 hijackers to freak out a nation of 280,000,000 plus people. If you know what the Bible says and then think about that statistic it gets your attention.

I am wondering about the Jewish torture thing, I really don't understand that one?

[edit on 29-3-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by dbrandt
I'll wait for a response but also add that one reason christians are becoming more vocal is(this is in my case anyway) 9/11 woke us up. From a christian perspective God allowed an enemy to inflict some terror on the U.S. for a couple of hours and then shut it down, to wake us up. The effects are still being felt though. This nation has been drifting from Him for a long time. In the Bible God tells Israel if you trust and follow me when an enemy of 1000 comes at you it will only take 100 to make him flee and but if you leave me it will only take 100 of them to make 1000 of you flee(I've got the numbers wrong, but look at the point). It only took 19 hijackers to freak out a nation of 280,000,000 plus people. If you know what the Bible says and then think about that statistic it gets your attention.

This is a very interesting perspective. Lots of mental caramel to chew on for me. The attack never made a religious connection for me before but this gives me pause. Nice work showing true understanding of the Old Testament!

Sigh, Saint4God, why can't you think outside the box? I wasn't bashing Christianity or saying that y'all are crying when y'all complain. I said there IS a conspiracy against Christians, but you misinterpreted me...big surprise.

You are proof that the conspiracy is effective. You have NO idea who's REALLY behind it. Oh well, again, it ain't my faith under attack. I find it funny that the mention of other religions completely threw you off. My bad, I won't mislead you again.

My point was that those things I mentioned are happening here in the US. Funny how you didn't quote that part... Are you intentionally blinding yourself? I like your answer, saying that Muslims wouldn't allow a gay parade. My point was that it isn't OTHER religions perpetrating this conspiracy, it's your OWN religious, political leaders!!

You don't find it strange that Christians protesting at a gay parade in the "Christian" US were nearly sentenced to 47 years in PRISON?! You don't find it strange that, in a "Christian" country, some people are advocating the torture of Christians? Are you a real Christian, or are you just misinformed? Like I said, I'm no longer a Christian, yet I can see the conspiracy and who's behind it.

I notice you like to divert arguments and sidestep questions in your posts, Saint. Oh well, to each his own. I just hope that you and other Christians wake up to who's REALLY attacking y'all.

And as for the "God let 9/11 happen to wake us up" thing, ! Our OWN govt did it, it wasn't a bunch of guys doing this from a cave! Then again, you might have a point...God might be trying to wake us up so we can take back this country from the REAL terrorists! You know, the ones who represent the "Casa Blanca."

This post is for dbrandt as well. He said the whole Muslim thing. My bad for putting that on you, Saint; but Dbrandt, that stuff DOES apply to you.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by truthseeka]

THERE IS NO ANTI CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY. The true conspirators are those that push an agenda in the name of christianity. That is what one rails against.

They play to one's fears. It is an old way. Happened recently in election. Find something that they can use as FEAR under the guise of christianity.

Two basic human emotions. All the rest are subsets of. FEAR and LOVE.

Those who use FEAR to further a "christian" agenda are not what they would like many to believe. I vote for those that push LOVE.

By your post I'm obviously inhibited by the limited area of my thinking and am a doctor of spin, let's go one step at a time please and be direct.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Sigh, Saint4God, why can't you think outside the box? I wasn't bashing Christianity or saying that y'all are crying when y'all complain. I said there IS a conspiracy against Christians, but you misinterpreted me...big surprise.

I know you say there IS a conspiracy since...after all...you said there IS a conspiracy. You also said the founders of said conspiracy are Christian Conservatives per this quote:

Originally posted by truthseeka
There IS an anti-Christian agenda in the US today. And guess what: it's your precious "Christian conservatives" who are behind it!!

To that I wondered what sense there would be for "Christians conservatives" to maintain a conspiracy against Christians who already know what is and is not in the Bible?

How did I mis-interpret this? Maybe if you could provide some further explaination as to what on God's green earth this previous quote means then perhaps we could take a step, albeit a small one, towards understanding.

It's terribly difficult to discuss anything whilst it's being implied that I'm a stubborn moron who somehow earned a degree in Advanced Subversiveness.

Originally posted by saint4God
To that I wondered what sense there would be for "Christians conservatives" to maintain a conspiracy against Christians who already know what is and is not in the Bible?

I would imagine that this is pointing out the difference between the cult of 'evangelical' or 'born again' christians (and I do mean CULT) whose emergence in recent times has led them to 'assert' themselves as the new power over more 'traditional' christians.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by truthseeka
All of the "Christian conservatives" are responsible for the attack on Christianity. Do you see Muslim countries arresting Christians for protesting at a gay parade? Do you see Buddhists arresting Christians for reading passages from the Bible that condemn homosexuality? Do you hear Jewish organizations calling for the torture of Christians?

I don't think muslims countries would allow a gay parade to even get out of the planning committee.

So I don't quite understand. Are you saying that by stating what we believe is truth from the Bible, and in some cases making a physical presence known during something we think is wrong, brings upon christians a response that we have ourselves to blame for?

I'll wait for a response but also add that one reason christians are becoming more vocal is(this is in my case anyway) 9/11 woke us up. From a christian perspective God allowed an enemy to inflict some terror on the U.S. for a couple of hours and then shut it down, to wake us up.

[edit on 29-3-2005 by dbrandt]

So we wake up by invading another country that had not much of anything to do with the attacks? We kill 100,000 Iraqis and mame many more..is this how "we" woke up?

Nothing is wrong with a christian presence. However, what is wrong is using the name of the Christ God to invoke views of one's interpretation of the Bible.

I, myself, a Christian among others many times resent seeing so called christians act definitely unchristianlike to make their point. Perhaps instead of gathering and spitting venom and FEAR they could gather and preach LOVE and understanding.

Terri Schiaro is Florida a perfect example. Poor girl. Has become nothing but a religious and political football. Why do many want her to "live" when any true Christian should know to let her go so she may live again.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
So we wake up by invading another country that had not much of anything to do with the attacks? We kill 100,000 Iraqis and mame many more..is this how "we" woke up?
Terri Schiaro is Florida a perfect example. Poor girl. Has become nothing but a religious and political football. Why do many want her to "live" when any true Christian should know to let her go so she may live again.

The U.S. is drifting away from God. There have probably been those who didn't know God from it's inception. But as a nation we are in God's face now and approving alot of sinful actions and behavior. Watch the TV and you'll see sin abound. When 9/11 happened people everywhere looked around. As a christian we know everything goes through God first, good things and bad. If it touches us He brought it for a reason. 9/11 affected us as a nation. When a tornado hits a town in the midwest, the effects don't spread throughout the entire nation. 9/11 affected the entire nation and one could argue the world. God judges/disciplines, I haven't thought of a way to say that, that it sounds good and smells like roses. He disciplines me personally, I don't do everything right, it's a fact of life.

I would like you to reply more on your Terri Schiavo comment. Did you mean she'll be reincarnated or that she would be in heaven? She'll go to heaven if she accepted Christ alone for her salvation.

This is my first post but i believe persecution of christians is inevitable as we approach the end times. "

" Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Glad to see you've joined the family! Good quotes. I'd like to give some tips if I may:

1.) The more commentary you can give on the quotes the better.
2.) Never be swayed by the grumpy people here. You'll see what I mean if you haven't already.
3.) Bible quotes work great on Christians, but make non-Christians turn the channel typically speaking.

Glad to have you here! If I can be of any help, feel free to U2U me.

Pray, train, study.
God bless.

Conspiracy? No. One doesnt need a conspiracy to feel nothing but contempt for Christianity.

Christians do a good enough job on their own by being themselves to bring hatred towards their religon. Their own holy book is full of violence, hatred, and divinely sanctioned mental illness.

The only conspiracy against Christians is their own self undoing. It is their own forceful dogma and trying to force and legislate their morality into law, or their use of their holy texts to subjugate and degrade other people.

Not all Christians of corse are losers. But there is a very vocal group of them who arrogantly assume that the rest of us either want their beliefs or care, and thats where the animosity comes from. If Christians would assume less and observe more, there wouildnt be so much hate against them.

But because of the actions of many of the Christians in this country, non Christians such as myself feel a need to up the heat and fight back against them, lest they succeed and oppress us and try to run our lives.

If Christians would leave the rest of us alone, Id not feel so combative towards them. If theyd stop trying to preach, or write laws to suit themselves with no concern for the rest of us, Id feel no need to defend my rights from their ravages.

If Christians would not work so hard to make themselves my enemy, i would not feel the need to see them as one.

[edit on 31-3-2005 by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The only conspiracy against Christians is their own self undoing.

The spirit of antichrist is the conspiracy that works in the world. It has been at work for thousands of years. Christians need to remember we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against this spirit of antichrist.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
If Christians would not work so hard to make themselves my enemy, i would not feel the need to see them as one.

Okay, let's start with me. How can I help?

Originally posted by jake1997
Why are so many people soo anti christian?

Because the most visible Christians are generally the worst examples of people who follow that religion.

Originally posted by jake1997
1.) Why do so many here feel the need to continually make topics bashing the beliefs of christians....when the topic is clearly not conspiracy related??

Perhaps it is a form of retaliation against those who persecuted themselves or their ancestors?

Originally posted by jake1997
2.) Why do people feel the need to bust in on a topic and hijack/change it by attacking a person or their beliefs, posting the christian POV on that topic?
(look at seapeoples post history for an example)

I'd have to say it's because most posts here are speculative in nature, and when one gets into an argument based entirely on speculation, then ultimately it comes down to one's most deeply held personal belief. Since this is usually religion, and Christianity has the highest percentage on this forum, it usually gets into a battle of Christian vs. Non-Christian opinions.

Originally posted by jake1997
3.) Doesnt the sheer weight of the trend in this forum show you that there is clearly some larger movement , possibly lead by a conspiracy, ...whos goal is anti-christian?

Nope. I think Christians brought this on themselves. Or, more accurately, I think that the most visible Christians brought it upon the rest of them as a whole. It's not a conspiracy, it's common sense.

I've been a Christian Hater in my past. I have slowly come around to the view that not all Christians are bad. I even leave myself open to the opinion that most Christians are, at heart, good people. The problem is that the majority of the most visible and vocal Christians thrive on being stubborn, ignorant, and intolerant. What should be a religion based off of the Golden Rule has been painted with a brush that borders on Draconic Tyrrany.

I could forgive the mistakes of the past, if the Christian community would apologize for them, such as the inquisition, the witch-huntings, the book burnings, the KKK, the slaughter of Native Americans in the Name of Jesus, the opression of all of God's peoples, even themselves, if only they would come forward, as a whole, and genuinely apologize for it. As yet, I have seen no such apology.

I would feel that I could talk of sensible things with a Christian, were they to open their minds enough to accept the fact that THEY do NOT dictate the policies of God, nor do they know everything. Instead, I see them wrap themselves in a cloak of delusion, thinking to know God's plan, and wear it like the thorny crown of their savior.

I might trust a Christian, if they practiced what they preached, and did not judge others. Instead, I see them act as judge, jury and executioner, completely ignoring the words "Judge not..." that appear over and over and over again. They dwell within sickening self-righteousness that condemns anyone outside of their narrow-minded viewpoint.

I might respect a Christian, if they worked hard, laboring towards their goals, and only prayed in private, in thanks for what they have. Instead they act like they are on a stage, for the whole world to see, praying more for the attention of their fellow man, than for the grace of God.

I might educate a Christian, if I thought they could learn. Instead, their minds are closed even to their own book. Most Christians I know have no idea of even a quarter of what the Bible says. Instead, they believe only what their priests or ministers tell them to believe, and learn only second or third-hand interpretations. They refuse to acknowledge science, clinging to the opinion that the two can never mesh.

I would love a Christian, if I thought they were capable of loving anyone but themselves. Instead I watched, growing up, as they treated the non-Christian world as if it were composed of retarded children, or dog feces. From what I have seen, they do not even love their savior, for they so blaspheme his name by their very actions.

When Christians learn to read the Bible, actually remember what it says, and re-evaluate their life, living as The Book instructs, then, and only then, will I ever come to fully accept Christians as anything more than hypocrites and meddlers. I hope this answers your questions. If you (the Christians as a whole) want things to change, start with your hearts and souls.


[edit on 3/31/2005 by thelibra]