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The Anti-Christian conspiracy

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posted on May, 19 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandtYou really really missed the point. I don't know how to explain it so that you would get it because your hatred for God and christians is pretty evident.
Sonny, that diatribe may work best for you in your local schoolyard or playground, on me it does not. The real question is, why do you hate God so that you are unwilling to think for yourself and would rather succumb to the drivel taught to you by those you have been conditioned to believe? Or is it that you have not yet developed intellectually?


And now that you bring it up my mom got breast cancer about 10 years ago and had to have both of her breasts removed. She was saved and still got breast cancer. It rains on the just and the unjust.
Was she now? And those who die from such diseases have not been saved? Every single one of them have been undeserving have they? Why would you consider granting human life to your mother as an act of being saved when in fact as a Christian you supposedly subscribe to the soul being saved? Did God really save her or did medical science? 100 years ago anyone with cancer would have died without medical intervention, are they then considered the damned by your thinking? I want to see how brave you are and what measure of smarts you actually have, and this requires you respond to every one of my questions.


God took leprosy, a real disease, and what is involved with it and uses what it entails to describe how despicable it(leprosy) is, then He says the same thing about sin. Am I saying right this moment that everybody who got leprosy is a sinner and deserves it, NO. Here's what I'm saying.....
Oh please! You have not addressed my rebuttal save for your indulgence in religious hocus pocus. How do you explain the survivors of that disease as well as the survivors of all killer diseases? Tell me your mother had no medical interference with her illness and I would consider your argument. But you have blown that chance.


leprosy is destructive to a persons body sin is destructive to a persons body
Yes, it is, as is cancer and all manner of disease, now using your mother's misfortune which you meekly offer as proof of your position, she walked away with both glands removed. I trust you told her that God would have saved her regardless, and therefore she needed not undergo this double mastectomy. Obviously she did not believe you and in spite of same Jesus saved her, is that how you see it? At which point, I trust also that you have absolutely no use for doctors prolonging your life because you place full faith in your God to either deliver you from all such sins, or end your life. Therefore you have never stepped foot in a doctor's office, right?


leprosy is contagious to other people sin is contagious to other people
Now you just spout nonsense with the latter, for if God made sin contagious, then he either neglected to make goodness also contagious or decided he favoured sin, where only a vengeful and evil god would create such a lopsided arrangement.


People who got leprosy had to live outside the camp and could not come near the tabernacle(where God dwelled)
Because the people of those days initiated quarantine as do we today. Is there a difference?


Now in the Old Tesatament they had tests that could be done on the person to see if the leprosy was cured.
Really? Other than the visual evidence starting on the face, what tests did they have?


If the leprosy went away the person was declared clean and could return to the camp and tabernacle.
You mean like those today with Influenza; Sars, Polio; Pneumonia, etc.?


If sin goes away(by the acceptance of Christ as Saviour)that person is declared clean/forgiven and is restored to God
I see. So when sin by such disease goes away in those who believe in Buddah; Allah or nothing, Jesus accepted them? Why then do they need to embrace the Christian faith if Jesus chooses them?


I don't know how much easier I can explain this.
Simplistically is the word you actually needed to use.

[edit on 5/19/05 by SomewhereinBetween]




posted on May, 19 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Cursed children? Are these ACTUALLY the words of Jesus or is this what a man has put down from a thought in his mind that he attributed to Jesus? The trouble with the Bible is not what is in it so much as what is not in it.

Man has translated and retranslated the thing 'till no man really knows what is what. I even have devout Christians arguing over which Bible is the "right" one.. the King James, etc.

I recently started reading the new testament. I read the book of Matthew from 3 different Bibles recently. Each had a different translation of the words of Jesus.

I once asked a Christian if Jesus said if one must go through him, or with him since this is what I read from differing Bibles. He asked me what the difference was. I responded there was a big difference from going through him and going with him. He failed to comprehend what I was trying to point out.

When someone is trying to translate a group of writings 300-400 years after their writings one may come up with various translations depending on the definition of the Greek word one uses. Some of those things have 15 or so different English words one may use for translation. So virtually anyone who translates can use whatever word he wishes in translation to convey HIS message, and not the message of Christ.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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The New International Version was translated by over 200 scholars from the original Hebrew and Greek texts. I cannot read original text, but have had many discussions with those who can and it's a nice match. I think what's also remarkable is the pretty tight fit with the other translations out there - KJV, NKJV, etc. So, read them all if you're not satisfied with one. You'll get a bit of reinforcement and all the different 'colors' of words like "with" and "through". The gospel even repeat themselves - 4 times! Okay okay, let's just suppose that's not enough validation and there's still some 'questionable' wording. Ask God. That's what He's there for. He doesn't live in the Book, the Book is a record of what He said and did. He'll straighten out the answers for ya one way or another as He's done for many people, myself included.

Wanna learn Hebrew and Greek? Great! Join one of these:



or to hear other translations and discussion, one of these:



*Gasp*! How dare I suggest there's learning in church!


Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 20-5-2005 by saint4God]



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 07:58 AM
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The Bible is full of symbols. Often Jesus and the Church (the true believers) are spoken of as the bride who awaits her groom. Marriage is symbolic of the joining of Christ to his church. This is why there is so much in the Bible concerning marriage.

As to sex outside of marriage, homsexuality and bi-sexuality, it has to be taken in context of a commandment to a believer. If you are a beliver, in essence you are saying "I will follow Your rules and live the way Your User's Manual tells me to. If a Church bases its belief system on the Bible, how can they be condemmed for following those beliefs?

A true Christian has to base their actions on the teachings of the Bible. Non-beleivers need not worry. The only partr of the Bible that pertains to them is John 3:16. If they chose not to belive that, then why should they worry about any of the rest of it?



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Man has translated and retranslated the thing 'till no man really knows what is what.


You do have to watch out for some translations. But this is probably the biggest excuse people use to condemn the Bible. And the excuse they use so they don't have to read and study it and live by it.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

And now that you bring it up my mom got breast cancer about 10 years ago and had to have both of her breasts removed. She was saved and still got breast cancer.


I'm talking spiritual salvation. My answers to your questions are not sufficient for you, because you are missing the meaning of them. God sometimes uses physical applications to teach us spiritual things.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf
If you are a beliver, in essence you are saying "I will follow Your rules and live the way Your User's Manual tells me to. If a Church bases its belief system on the Bible, how can they be condemmed for following those beliefs?

A true Christian has to base their actions on the teachings of the Bible. Non-beleivers need not worry. The only partr of the Bible that pertains to them is John 3:16. If they chose not to belive that, then why should they worry about any of the rest of it?



You have voted darkelf for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.


Nicely done , spoken like true saint.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Man has translated and retranslated the thing 'till no man really knows what is what.


You do have to watch out for some translations. But this is probably the biggest excuse people use to condemn the Bible. And the excuse they use so they don't have to read and study it and live by it.




Well done. WHen its all put in perspective, if you are going to believe that God IS, ....that the I AM, really IS... then how can you possibly think that the same God who

Created everything in 6 days
Created 100's of prophecies about Jesus and then fulfilled them all against the tide of man
Saved you from your own self determintation to kill yourself..

How can THAT GOD now have enough strength in His arm to preserve HIS Word?

Simply by implication..if God is God, then the bible is His PERFECT word.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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I've been outed!
Hehe, thanks Saint. I thought of using that in my signature line, but didn't know if I would be violating some SOE trademark.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandtI'm talking spiritual salvation. My answers to your questions are not sufficient for you, because you are missing the meaning of them. God sometimes uses physical applications to teach us spiritual things.
No there are not sufficient for they are extremely lacking. And yes, I do miss the meaning of same because my ability to think and reason has not been stunted. Consider it along the lines of a theologian of today trying to tell the Egyptian pagans of 2500 years ago that their Gods will pass into obscurity, where I am the theologian, and you the disbelieving Egyptian. The lesson in that is two-fold, I might add.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 01:09 AM
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Yeah I know what you mean when you talk about your mom and cancer. My mother just passed away in March of this year from cancer. It's a terrible thing for anyone and their family to endouer.

My mom was a devoted christian most of her life and had more christians praying for her than you can imagine. Well she died anyway and we were all praying for a miracle. Is this the way God takes care of his people you may ask.

Well, I too have been a christain most of my life. I know that first of all God wasn't the one whom created cancer. He didn't create any disease. We were destined to live forever as long as we lived according to His ways. Where his ways to hard ? Was he setting us up for failure ? I don't think that one tempteation was too much. That one temptation was " Don't eat from the tree of knowledge." But man couldn't stay away. Because man is weak. God gave us everything. Freedom, a lovely wife, the rule of the kingdom, rule over the animals, perfect atmosphere, no polution etc.... You get the idea.

And we as man blew it and ate from the tree of knowledge anyway.

Well- We were doomed from there. We then brought on, genocide, polution, war, corruption, stress, unhealthy habits, spraying our fruits and veggies with cancer causing poisons to keep the bugs off. Cigaretts, sex outside of marriage- creating diseases, spreading more diseases etc.. you get the picture.

We have brought this on ourselves. I cannot blame God for her death. After all God did not create disease but the fall of man did.

She had cancer and I am very sorrowful for that. I miss my mom very much. She was my Best Friend in the world and cancer took her away from me not God.

God did however take her home "when she asked" becuse she couldn't take the pain and suffering anylonger.

Praise Jesus for a just and merciful God we have.

I don't have my mom anylonger but I will always have the memory thanks to my God created memory bank that He created.

Now it's time for God to build my character even more through this time of sorrow and morning and I will someday be able to help others going through the same thing.

After all, That's what being a Christian is all about !


Take it easy and keep on seeking the Truth !




posted on May, 21 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Sonny, that diatribe may work best for you in your local schoolyard or playground, on me it does not. The real question is, why do you hate God so that you are unwilling to think for yourself and would rather succumb to the drivel taught to you by those you have been conditioned to believe? Or is it that you have not yet developed intellectually?



Paraphrase:
You who believe in God show that you hate God because you wont disbelieve in God.
Those of you who wont disbelieve in God are intellectually inferior.

Seriously...is that what it says??
Someone confirm or correct it please.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997araphrase:
You who believe in God show that you hate God because you wont disbelieve in God.
Those of you who wont disbelieve in God are intellectually inferior.

Seriously...is that what it says??
Someone confirm or correct it please.
You are being corrected, as usual.

Good effort though, at least as good as you can muster.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 07:17 AM
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Some consider the Bible the "perfect word"? I have to vehemently disagree. If it was the "perfect word" why are so many who consider it the book acting so imperfectly?

Sorry guys, I AM a Christian. However, I am not even foolish enough to be duped by a book that has been changed countless times over the millenia to control individuals and individual thought.

Tomorrows Senate vote is a prime example. The forces of Satan are getting ready to get the rules changed so he will have even greater control of humanity, and help flush the freedom out of a free country.

Led by Sen. Bill(cheating medicare) Frist this group is hardly "Christlike."

How many know that Senator Frist's company HCA had to settle out of court for over $750,000,000 from stealing taxpayer's money in medicare fraud? There is your "Christian" man.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
You are being corrected, as usual.

Good effort though, at least as good as you can muster.


Maybe there is a post between yours and mine that I cannot see because its from someone on the ignore list. Dunno. Your weak attempt at an insult here has added you to it as well.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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madmanacrosswater
..it is very refreshing to see a Christian that thinks with their own brain! I have been harping on this site for a very long time… that just because you are a Christian, doesn't men you can't learn the history of the bible and see the truth! No, I am not Christian, and that's probably why many that are won't hear what I say. To be a Christian doesn't mean you have to believe blindly.....the history still happened and it can't be erased by turning your nose up at it. The bible has been changed, rearranged and parts completely deleted from it…and to believe otherwise is naive and foolish.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Some consider the Bible the "perfect word"? I have to vehemently disagree. If it was the "perfect word" why are so many who consider it the book acting so imperfectly?


Because people don't read it, learn it, understand it and apply it. It's that simple. Even a lot of "Christians" who open it one Sunday a week (or less) are too full of themselves to see His way. We as people, wanna be in charge, in control, to have final say, to have the power, to take care of our desires first. This is the problem the Book states over and over again that causes the static in the connection between us and God. Get rid of that, and it starts sounding clearer and clear. The Word begins to make sense, you realize that is for Him and all that is good.

We all have the right to agree or disagree, but if you walk into a forest without a map, we tend to get lost and waste a lot of time learning our way around.

[edit on 23-5-2005 by saint4God]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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Saint, I understand perfectly what you are saying. What is disgusting me is that a small portion of "Christianity" is the portion yelling the loudest, and yelling about the wrong things.

There are many ways to judge "morality". However, when I turn on the tube and watch the Trinity Broadcasting Network and hear that churches are "uniting" to elect "Christian" representatives that scares the heck out of me. Most great nations have imploded from the inside. Not from what some consider "immoral" activities, but from many not recognizing how "immoral" their activity is in the name of whatever.

It is a long book, however I encourage people to read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". There are so many parallels in place regarding this country and Hitler's rise to power it is very scary.

It's reading is almost as hard as the Bible's.

To have Sen. Frist lead the charge tells me all I need to know. I once voted for this man, but now see him as no more than a pawn doing the work of Satan.

Morality is NOT sending your soldiers off to fight. Over 10,000 are now missing limbs from the fight. So what happens? Let's cut the funding to the medical programs set in place for the vets. Therefore they and their families will have troubles emotionally, spiritually, financially from here on out. That is not "morality". Is it?



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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well said, Madman!

I'm out of votes or you would have gotten one.

I believe the vast majority of Christians are sincere, good, loving, and charitable people. I think that their shrill minority that garners most of the attention is performing a great disservice to them. I don't envy them their task but I think it is encumbent on them to speak out and disavow those individuals whom are, in the common vernacular, "giving them a bad name".

In fact, what I see is very much akin to the reputation being given to Muslims by the terrorists who claim to be murdering innocents in the name of their religion. It's not as deadly (yet) but it's not much different in principle.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Because people don't read it, learn it, understand it and apply it. It's that simple.


A-Men




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