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The Anti-Christian conspiracy

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posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by NuTroll
there is no rapture.
rev 13:11 and to him was given power to make war with the saints, and over come them

(who is he fighting if we are all gone? )

isiah 57:1 the righteous perish, and no man lay it to heart....



The very reason Paul wrote about the rapture is because someone came along and started teaching that it happened already.

Its discussed here.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

3rd post from the bottom




posted on May, 16 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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So Mr. Jake are you saying to me that the "homosexual or gay" community is not being excluded by many members and churches of "Christian" teaching? That their inability to marry, foster children, etc. that is being constantly fought over is not exclusion of a group?

One cannot use the word "doctrine" with this for no one knows if this is a trait from birth, or learned. Therefore it is not a "doctrine" so they must be a group being excluded by a lot of "Christian" churches.

I wish you to show where JESUS did not include with the rest of mankind. I don't want some obscure verse written in a book that was put together from man. I want to know JESUS's words on the subject.

By the way. The rapture has already occured. We just haven't caught up to the time yet.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by NuTroll
there is no rapture.
rev 13:11 and to him was given power to make war with the saints, and over come them

(who is he fighting if we are all gone? )

isiah 57:1 the righteous perish, and no man lay it to heart....




Read Matthew 16:18 It says the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church(and this isn't the Roman Catholic Church, it's those who have accepted Christ from His death to the rapture).

And Rev. 13:11 says the saints will be overcome by the antichrist, and so does Daniel 7:21. So there is a problem, does he overcome the saints or not.

The answer to the problem is that all believers are saints but not all saints are in the "church".

The church is removed at the rapture, others will come to Christ during the tribulation period, they are the ones the antichrist will overcome, but they are still saved and will live with God for all eternity.


Finish reading Isaiah 57:1......and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY(rapture), none considering that the righteous is TAKEN AWAY(rapture) from the evil to come.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
So Mr. Jake are you saying to me that the "homosexual or gay" community is not being excluded by many members and churches of "Christian" teaching?

Excluded from what? From church? No. From what?


That their inability to marry, foster children, etc. that is being constantly fought over is not exclusion of a group?

The USA is not a christian nation. We have separation of church and state. Christians do not make the laws. Call your congressman


One cannot use the word "doctrine" with this for no one knows if this is a trait from birth, or learned. Therefore it is not a "doctrine" so they must be a group being excluded by a lot of "Christian" churches.

God says otherwise.

I wish you to show where JESUS did not include with the rest of mankind. I don't want some obscure verse written in a book that was put together from man. I want to know JESUS's words on the subject.

By the way. The rapture has already occured. We just haven't caught up to the time yet.


This is interesting..

1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

I never saw that before...and only posted it there for comment...The Jesus quote you are looking for is in Revelation, but fist you have to know what the Nicolaitians are and who Balaam is.

Revelation chapter 2 is what you want. Straight from Jesus' own mouth



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:28 AM
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it was straight from Jesus's mouth or the writings of man? That is what one always must be careful of. That's why even, I, a Christian have a hard time with the Bible. Many now use to scare the crap out of others. That was not Jesus intention. Well, in a way it was. but in a different way.

Also, one must remember that Jesus spoke in parables. The meanings of which can certainly draw much different translations depending on who one asks.





[edit on 17-5-2005 by madmanacrosswater]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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yeah.. I am very sure.

Read Revelation chapter two and see for yourself.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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and I still see no specific reference. I do see where Jesus speaks of fornication, however he speaks of in a different light.

If he had stated something to the effect that no two of the same shall fornicate then I'd go along, however that is not said. Fornification is between two that have no specific "contract" with the state or with God. Again, I believe the teachings of man has...



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
and I still see no specific reference. I do see where Jesus speaks of fornication, however he speaks of in a different light.

If he had stated something to the effect that no two of the same shall fornicate then I'd go along, however that is not said. Fornification is between two that have no specific "contract" with the state or with God. Again, I believe the teachings of man has...


Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate

2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest: to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever.

The way of balaam was the iniquity you speek of. Sexual immorality



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandtYou didn't get what I said. Leprosy is an actual physical ailment. I believe I also said it was contagiuos and that is why you would isolate them. God also teaches a spiritual message using leprosy as symbolic for sin. Leprosy is devastating, so is sin. Where you came up with I said people who get diseases because they sinned I don't know. You missed the point.


But as long as you bring it up, that can happen. Example, If someone has sex with a prostitute who has AIDS and they get Aids, I could argue that they have the AIDS virus because of sin(immoral sex).
I get nothing wrong. This is what you said

Leprosy was also contagious….God, in the Bible, also uses leprosy as a symbolic means for sin. Leprsoy is destructive to a person, so is sin.
Unless you wish to back-peddle some more, you are representing leprosy, a contagious disease, as a sin which God used for symbolic reasons to send a message. Obviously then, unless your God is a despicable entity, and he most certainly is from what I gather, he would not be bringing such afflictions against good and pius mortals, only those whom you see as sinners. So decide how you wish to view such diseases, because the leprosy of old can by your simplistic view equate to the diseases of today.


But as long as you bring it up, that can happen. Example, If someone has sex with a prostitute who has AIDS and they get Aids, I could argue that they have the AIDS virus because of sin(immoral sex).
really now? Then if you or anyone you care for contracts same from a blood transfusion or a tainted needle, or a member of your family or even you were to come down with cancer or any other debilitating or killer disease, then you or they have contracted same because you or they are a sinner? When, not if, a close family member of yours contracts such a case, will you be telling them they have sinned in the eyes of your God and have brought onto themselves what they deserve? How about when it happens to you, will you be visiting us here to tell us how you failed your God and will suffer the wrath of hellfire?

I can well imagine the vacuous thoughts of your counterparts in the days of polio; small pox; malaria; typhoid and tuberculosis, where they like you, were of the same mind. It must have pained them all as it must you to note that man, not God, created the antidotes for same and it is man, not God, which saves so called sinners from such diseases.

At some point in your life your self-righteous indignation will come back to haunt you, and when it does, I really do hope to hear how you dropped to your knees and begged forgiveness for yours or your loved one’s immorality.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Unless you wish to back-peddle some more, you are representing leprosy, a contagious disease, as a sin which God used for symbolic reasons to send a message. When, not if, a close family member of yours contracts such a case, will you be telling them they have sinned in the eyes of your God and have brought onto themselves what they deserve? How about when it happens to you, will you be visiting us here to tell us how you failed your God and will suffer the wrath of hellfire?





You really really missed the point. I don't know how to explain it so that you would get it because your hatred for God and christians is pretty evident.

And now that you bring it up my mom got breast cancer about 10 years ago and had to have both of her breasts removed. She was saved and still got breast cancer. It rains on the just and the unjust.

God took leprosy, a real disease, and what is involved with it and uses what it entails to describe how despicable it(leprosy) is, then He says the same thing about sin. Am I saying right this moment that everybody who got leprosy is a sinner and deserves it, NO. Here's what I'm saying.....

leprosy is destructive to a persons body
sin is destructive to a persons body

leprosy is contagious to other people
sin is contagious to other people

People who got leprosy had to live outside the camp and could not come near the tabernacle(where God dwelled)
sin causes seperation from others and causes a seperation from God, between that person and God

Now in the Old Tesatament they had tests that could be done on the person to see if the leprosy was cured.

If the leprosy went away the person was declared clean and could return to the camp and tabernacle.
If sin goes away(by the acceptance of Christ as Saviour)that person is declared clean/forgiven and is restored to God

I don't know how much easier I can explain this. If you are looking to get into an argument then nothing I say will change that. Hopefully that's not what you want cause I don't.



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Still ain't seen it. So you are saying that two that are in "love" are sexually immoral. or just so if they are the same sex or committing adultery?

Is this what YOU read into it, or what someone has taught you? I guess the big question really is-If you saw two males holding hands and obviously gay entering the church for service that you attend would they be welcomed or shunned?

Many get on the Unitarians for being inclusive. I thought the idea was to be inclusive?



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 07:32 AM
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One reason

You hardly ever hear Christians say ' we believe......' instead they tend to assume their religious views are correct rather than opinion. A bit of humility and maybe people would be be more tolerant.

This sort of response doesn't help either

www.belowtopsecret.com...'

I think Christianity has been moved from a 'turn the other cheek' ethos into something where boxers thank 'god' after having punched another guy in the head for 60 minutes.

This seems much more a US thing than anywhere else and devalues any claim to moral high ground christians could make.

Before Orangetom starts quoting scripture at me I'd say the same for judaism & islam too.



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 07:59 AM
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Any church that would shun them is not keeping the word of Christ

Any church that would not teach them that they are in error would have their blood on their own hands. (yes thats in scripture).
If you kick out the gays, then also kick out the killers, theives, adulterers, liars,...etc

No new people would ever be allowed in church.



Originally posted by CTID56092
One reason

You hardly ever hear Christians say ' we believe......' instead they tend to assume their religious views are correct rather than opinion. A bit of humility and maybe people would be be more tolerant.


Its not opinion.
Its fact. I actually see God working and answering prayer with mracle.

You say that we should be more humble...and people would tolerate us.

That comes over as, you should say that what you follow is just a hobby and not real...and then people wont hate you.

Maybe its just coming over wrong...but I thought you should know



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Still ain't seen it. So you are saying that two that are in "love" are sexually immoral. or just so if they are the same sex or committing adultery?


A person in this situation should talk to God about it. Who am I to disagree with God?



Is this what YOU read into it, or what someone has taught you?


I pray, I read, I think, I learn. Any other way is foolishness in my opinion.



I guess the big question really is-If you saw two males holding hands and obviously gay entering the church for service that you attend would they be welcomed or shunned?


Welcomed. Come to my church, you will find homosexuals there. We have had some come forward to say they've talked with God, received a response from Him saying the lifestyle is a social behaviour and is not correct. I cannot say though, I am not in their position. I can only recount my sins.



Many get on the Unitarians for being inclusive. I thought the idea was to be inclusive?


My concern for Unitarianism is the welcoming of other gods into a building where God is supposed to be worshipped. I presume you're Christian which hopefully means you're accepting the Bible as a valid source of info. I think it's best stated in 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the the temple of the living God. As God said: 'I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord'.

Anyone and everyone is welcomed to come to the house of God. Where we get into trouble is when we start mixing the house of God with the houses of other gods per above. I love everyone, considering all people to be sisters and brothers, but in worshipping God, one must be focused exclusively on God Himself. Even if you go to church and you're distracted by other people during worship, you're missing the point of going.


[edit on 18-5-2005 by saint4God]



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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That is the way it should be both Jake and Saint. However, I who seldom enter a house of worship hear to much "noise" from the supposed "Christians" that give the faith a bad name.

I was wrong in saying I never enter a house of worship. My house of worship is in my heart. Often take many hikes to the highest hill, etc to talk in my "closet" with him.

I had an awakening a couple of years ago, and much of what I hear and see from Christianity on the boob tube sickens me.

Jake, your wrong about the "madam". Male, age 51, raised 3 young uns that aren't that young anymore. However, my brother is gay, and has been that way since as long as I can remember. He has lived with another man for over 30 years. He can't explain it to me. However, I accept him as I do all others.

Some mistake my pointedness at times. I just like to dig at others to get truly to the feelings within their heart. Sometimes I'm like a stick doing a little poking. No harm intended towards anyone.

Saint, you know that I am Christian. Sometimes may take the other side to get to the heart.

Namaste'



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Just a lil bit of dyslexic behavior goin on , on my part



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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You need to take this into Fact,,
1 Corinthians 5:5
Band this Man over to Satan, so that the sinful Nature may be Destroyed and his Sprit saved on the day of the lord....

Read into this and it may help you to understand some things easer....



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997



Originally posted by CTID56092
One reason

You hardly ever hear Christians say ' we believe......' instead they tend to assume their religious views are correct rather than opinion. A bit of humility and maybe people would be be more tolerant.


Its not opinion.
Its fact. I actually see God working and answering prayer with mracle.

You say that we should be more humble...and people would tolerate us.

That comes over as, you should say that what you follow is just a hobby and not real...and then people wont hate you.

Maybe its just coming over wrong...but I thought you should know


No it's coming over correctly. I'd defend anyone's right to have a faith but that includes all faiths not just the mono-christianity juggernaught.

It's just your opinion, same as jewish, islamic, taoist people have frimly -held opinions. As a marxist I see it as an emotional crutch that helps some get through the day - again it's just an opinion.



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
...not just the mono-christianity juggernaught.


I don't care who you are, that there is funny. Glad to see Christianity has taken on the "mono" term. I think people are finally getting it!


Main Entry: mon-
Variant(s): or mono-
Function: combining form
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin, from Greek, from monos alone, single -- more at MONK
1 : one : single : alone



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
and I still see no specific reference. I do see where Jesus speaks of fornication, however he speaks of in a different light.

If he had stated something to the effect that no two of the same shall fornicate then I'd go along, however that is not said. Fornification is between two that have no specific "contract" with the state or with God. Again, I believe the teachings of man has...


Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate

2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: a heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest: to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever.

The way of balaam was the iniquity you speek of. Sexual immorality


Wow! Thanks for enlightening me on this - I had no idea that Jesus spoke English until now! Maybe Jesus actually brought English down from Heaven with him - has anybody got a reference to that?




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