Originally posted by jake1997
Why are so many people soo anti christian?

This is what I see. I see threads about many different subjects. Hundreds of subjects. In politics things get heated. On sports teams things get heated.
But when it comes to christianity....

I see hatred, dripping wet with venom. Why? This is not a 'hate christ' forum. Christianity is not the largest religion, nor does it have the worst human rights record in the media...it has nothing that should put it at the top of your hate list.

1.) Why do so many here feel the need to continually make topics bashing the beliefs of christians....when the topic is clearly not conspiracy related??

2.) Why do people feel the need to bust in on a topic and hijack/change it by attacking a person or their beliefs, posting the christian POV on that topic?
(look at seapeoples post history for an example)

3.) Doesnt the sheer weight of the trend in this forum show you that there is clearly some larger movement , possibly lead by a conspiracy, ...whos goal is anti-christian?

It should be THAT obvious. How can you miss it?

If you noticed the United States has a non-profit organization for Christianity.

People get mad watching about christianity all the time on tv getting involved in law-suit cases.

Like the Terry Shiavo case the Pope got involved then all of a sudden the governors get involved talkin about she was religious to live. Why would the governor get involved when she wanted to pull the plug to begin with?

They have millions of churches all over why else wouldnt they discuss it? Even if they have different faith they shouldnt bash each other, right?

Well sometimes the religious goes around bashing others wich is usually the christians since this is a USA forum and christianity is mostly wide spread.

HINT TO RELIGOUS - Try not to push faith and talk about God

[edit on 12-3-2005 by phantomviewer]

Originally posted by jake1997somewhereinbetween just outright attacks me and christianity....thus comfirming the need for this very topic.

Poor you and your self-righteousness to not notice your own attacks against others but complain that you are being attacked.

He then goes on to say that because I distinguish christianity from toher faiths, I am bashing them. Basically this is saying that christians deserve to be attacked because they are different.

"She." turn that around to yourself you will find the very Jews and Catholics you criticized will tell you it was an attack. If you don't believe me I invite you to accompany me into a Jewish and RCC discussion board where you can state exactly what you have previously, and we will see if they thank you for an objective point of view or pull a you and charge you with attacking them.

Let me know when you are available to do this.

somewhereinbetween feels that now is a good time to do an outright attack against me and attempts to use christ to do it. Just like the popes of the crusades and inquisitions...he attempts to use religion to attack others.

Absolutely! You started the thread maoning and bitching about others, then expect those others to counter.

This shows that it is indeed a LACK OF KNOWLEDGE // FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN that is behind the hatred, because he knows very little about what he is saying.

No fear here my friend, the only fear I notice comes from your crying that your religion is under scrutiny. Were you so sure about its righteousness you wouldn't give a wit as to what was said about it, it would satnd on its own merits. Instead, all you Christian zealots can find to counter the charges is to apologize and find excuses for the holes within your beliefs, veer away from the Biblical contradictions by making up stories as to what those contradictions mean, or cry that you are being attacked.

Actually I think it smacked me in the face where even I recoiled at the blatant apostasy:

Perhaps it was a smack in the face from a demon because you went to a christian site?

At least you acknowledge that the site has demons within it doing the smacking.

So whats the deal? Are we supposed to pray to Jesus? Are we supposed to pray only the Lords prayer?

See above regarding changing the verses to apologize for your bastardization of same. Who is supposed to be the boss and teacher for you? Jesus! He told you how to pray, yet you allow man to corrupt that and change it. Typical! As for the 4 gospels, it is trash, covered by even more trash from Acts to revelation. All attempts to subvert the major religion of its day, including your unblessed Paul the Roman, cum Jew, cum Christian killer even usurping and changing the teachings of the 4. And just to make sure they keep you mesmerized, scared and cowering, they present to you at least 100 years later a fable from a sick mind as to what will happen to you even when you do cower.

Tell me when anyone said that 'this' is the 'only' way you will pray to God or Jesus

Provided. Obviously you care not to listen to the words of the one to whom you pretend to give allegience.

And to try and make your case, you spout more nonsense from the book, a sthough it somehow can prove itself.

You hate christians because you hate christ, but him, you hate without cause.

Typical method of denial once more. I don't hate your Jesus, because I do not believe in him, nor do I hate Christians, I leave hate to Christians as they espouse their own by reflecting. What I do hate are the extremes by which you go to excise God the creator himself from your inner guidance.

Your Jesus as were his disciples, as well as Paul were all anarchists, thieves, warring and killing their very own people in what was a civil war and a fight for religious rule by various sects of Judaism. Some schmuck decided to write the story of their leader cryptically and thereby paint his history favourably. No diferent to any historical account of a leader as written by one of his followers.

Too many factual, logical, and other errors in this post to pass up. Please indulge me.

Originally posted by phantomviewer
If you noticed the United States has a non-profit organization for Christianity.

There are lots of non-profits in the US. Many Christian, many Muslim, many irreligious. Your point is? BTW, when an organization, Christian or not starts to involve itself in politics it runs a large risk of losing its non-profit, tax exempt status.

People get mad watching about christianity all the time on tv getting involved in law-suit cases.

As a Christian, what I get mad about is seeing how Christians are portrayed in the movies and on TV. We're either small-minded, intolerant, hate filled bigots, or braying sheep mindlessly repeating nonsensical words & phrases. Nothing could be further from the truth.

But as to your point: Does being a Christian preclude one from being involved in public discourse? The ACLU and other secular organizations with an agenda get involved in lawsuits all the time. What's wrong with that?

Like the Terry Shiavo case the Pope got involved then all of a sudden the governors get involved talkin about she was religious to live. Why would the governor get involved when she wanted to pull the plug to begin with?

So? The courts are free to take or ignore the advice of the governor or the Pope at their whim.

They have millions of churches all over why else wouldnt they discuss it? Even if they have different faith they shouldnt bash each other, right?

Well sometimes the religious goes around bashing others wich is usually the christians since this is a USA forum and christianity is mostly wide spread.

I probably spent way too much time trying to parse these sentences. Perhaps someone else can translate for me.

HINT TO RELIGOUS - Try not to push faith and talk about God

What's the point of having faith if you don't care enough about it to share it with others?

i did not say it was ok to be anti Christian if you dont believe in the bible, i said if you cannot accept that the bible has conflicts, then ohh well. I dont believe its ok to be anti anyones religious belief. You have as much right as anyone else to practice what you believe. Its when someone says another is going to Hell because they dont believe as i do. THATS when i Have Issues.


back to the bible;
The dead sea scrolls are a good example. Ever read them? these are as close to the source as anything out there. Yet most Christians wont read them, as they bring to question the legitimacy of the present day Bible. They cannot be brought into the Bible without creating serious issues as to how Paul was allowed to almost redirect the path Christ had left to follow.

There as a another post how to pray, another good example. And then These horrific crucifixes at most organized churches, Christ never places himself above God, ever. Yet milions pray to him, make graven images of him, basically crucify him again and again. Is it a sado-religion, if i am in pain, i must be doing something right? If there is enough fear generated about revelations, then i am doing gods work?
More people should concentrate on what jesus said and did instead of what your church says he said and did. Not knowing its the Bible you could make the case Jesus was Buddist, Wiccan, Muslim, any one of a number of religions now in existance.

not anti Christian, just looking for the Truth.

Yes, in fact, this is a forum about conspiracies.

You can make a case that there is a consipiracy against Christianity and you have some valid points.

Many of us can make pretty strong cases about how the Church (beginning with the one church who "won the war" for the codification of Christianity) has conspired to re-write history and twist the true message of Jesus into something that Jesus himself would find an abomination. Wouldn't surprise me at all if God were to come to earth and strike down the Vatican as his first act of retribution against false prophets.

I have no hard feelings against true Christians who sincerely believe what they believe. I take a dim view towards those who would try to deceive and obfuscate. I've little tolerance for any one who tries to convince others that everything in the KJV (or any other modern version) of the bible is literally the true story of what happened in that part of the world at that time - it just ain't so. Of course, the worst are those who want to demand that we all believe just the parts of the bible that suit their own purposes while ignoring the other parts.

One of you brought up the whole homosexuality issue and that's an excellent place to begin examining. The bible says that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man. Well, it also names a few dozen other abominations - does not make any distinction about which is a greater abomination or sin, it just names them as sins and abominations against God. It is not trivial nor is it false to point out that the eating of certain foods (many enjoyed regularly by these "homosexuality is a sin" ranters) is listed among those. So is wearing clothes made of different clothes, touching the flesh of pigs, etc. You can't have it both ways if you're going to tell me that you believe in your bible. Sorry, it's just Christianity of Convenience to pick one abomination to go after and ignore the passages that list the others.

But, it's not up to me to tell you what to believe. It's also not up to you to try to tell me what I should believe. And, that is where the conflict began.

Peace.

P.S. If you read the Talmud, it basically says that if a man has sex with another man, that is a sin. If a woman has sex with another woman then, what did you expect? It's the man's fault for leaving them alone together! It never says that it's a sin - it just says that you shouldn't leave women alone together because they might have sex. The bible that the Christian Right is so fond of thumping doesn't ever really address sex between women. Think on that one for a while.

[edit on 12-3-2005 by Al Davison]

My beef with christianity is that first off "IT IS NOT NEEDED IN TODAYS SOCIETY."
It just plainly pisses me off when i hear that the bible is the msot selling book in the world.....The bible does not teach one useful thing to a person.
Does the bible explain how to grow a crop? Does the bible explain how to build a chair? Does the bible have the theory of relativity in it? The bible simply teachs people "morals". Now i should publish my own book about morals, called "Dont do things to other people that you dont want done yto yourself" It will be a single page book, and the title will be the only text that is needed. Hopefully i can outsell the bible....
Why is stephen hawkings, or socrates, or neitzche, or armstrongs books the best selling books in the world? I would be happier if "the cat sat on the mat" was the best selling book in the world.

Simply said, the bible has restricted the human mind in a box for centuries, insted of people looking at a way to get off this rock of ours, they have been looking for away to make their god happy. It has slowed our speed of evolution for centuries, and do u know what for? Power over the masses, constantine pretty much changed christianty to what he saw would control the people of the roman empire.

Their is no anti-christian conspiracy, there is only people out there who see past the lies and deceit of the christian faith, and want to show other people road to truth. We dont say we have all the answers of the world, but we try to search for them insted of being deluded by lies.
All we ask of christians is to educate themselves in other things than bible quotes. NOT ALL THE ANSWERS ARE IN ONE BOOK! THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF BOOKS WITH ANSWERS! READ! READ! READ!

Wang:

Have you read the Talmud? It's got all that stuff in it about how to grow crops and make beer and how many beams you should have holding up your roof and such.

Not arguing with you - just provided another resource of ancient but practical knowledge.

(No, I am not Jewish.)

Thank you, you have proved my point.
No i havent read the talmud (yet) i am now trying to study the kabbala first.
Probably harder read than the talmud, but the kabbala is surpose to give you the knowledge on how to read in between the lines of the talmud. Anyway, i was refering to the new testament when refering to practicle knowledge. And you have proved me right as their is OTHER books than the bible than have more meaning to a persons life. But do you think hardcore right winged christian redneck is going to read the talmud?
My point to my post was that christians depend souly apon the bible, when their are acturly millions of other books with more resourceful knowledge in them, including the talmud.

Originally posted by jake1997
Mr NoOne basically says that christians deserve it because they are hypocrites. What is funny here, is that he becomes one while trying to explain why he feels christians are such.
What is a steel worker? Someone who works with steel.
What is a lawyer? Someone who practices law.
What is a homonsexual? Someone who practices homosexuality.
mrnoone says that all homo's do not have homo sex. Thats about as stupid as saying all steel workers dont work with steel ..etc etc...
Mrnoone, Christ says that the sin is commited in the heart. He gives the example of lust.
You say that christians deserve to be hated because they have different morals.
Sounds like a group 3

MrNoOne shows up again to say that amont other things, christians are wrong because christianity has
1.) changed 2.) Doesnt let jewish rabbis be saved 3.) Says homosexuallity is a sin 4.) Says that the ONLY way to heaven is through christ.
It is for those reasons that christians deserve to be hated.
Christ said HE is THE way. No OTHER way. THEE way.

Where did I say that Christians deserve to be hated? You asked "why" and I offered a possible answer. It not my fault that you asked a question and held a predefined answer that you are unable to see beyond.

A homosexual, by today's general definition, is any person in a relationship with a member of the same sex. Not just someone who has sex with members of the same sex. BTW the ONLY people who think that loving someone of the same sex is a sin are those of narrow mind. Love your way and leave others alone.

How can you say that Christians are right in saying that the ONLY way to heaven is through Christ AND say that God created all people? For hundreds of years, there were billions of people who lived and died without ever evening knowing there was a Jerusalem let alone a Jesus Christ - did they all go to hell for being on the wrong part of the planet? That's absurd. God presented to those peoples in other ways and they were just as much a part of HIS will as you and I are today.

Bear in mind through all of this that the Bible was compiled by MEN to create a power base for them. They have distorted EVERY word to suit their own ends and it continues today.

God is the be all and end all. Nothing else matters. God created us all in love, with love and to be loved. If you love God, are a good person and love your fellow human beings then you will one day be reunited with God. And that is true no matter what religion you adhere to.

Originally posted by jake1997

No. Those are not the two commandments that comprise the entire 10.

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, [color=Red]"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."
[/color]

They comprise the entire 10. That is the moral law.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. It is all still SOTM though (after His Golden Rule, the most widely known ethical teaching), but you're right it does answer the people directly as to the "greatest" and next commandment upon which his moral system is built.

But what I was getting at is two fold:

This reformation wasn't unique except in Him.

And that's definitely attributable to "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" though I wasn't looking at scripture when I stated the fundamental tenant of Christianity is to accept Him as the only way.

But whether based on love of God or accepting Him, that's the difference from other moral frameworks I gave as examples. Don't be good to be good, or aspirations to the good. Or don't be good because of the integral relationship of man. Be good because of God.

This moral prescription (though a heck of a sales pitch for the faith) is an all or nothing proposition, which when combined with witnessing is pretty damning of otherwise ethical and moral people, that don't believe in Him or believe they should be good only because of love of a particular metaphysical entity.

See where I was going there?

As to your added points on the RCC, it's more than evident to me they mucked it up right off and Luther was another sincere reformer I applaud. But it's as equally easy to see it getting corrupt again now with these religious political bedfellows seeking Christian dominion over state and subject again, not at all unlike an Islamic "democracy" and very much in contrast to our founding (I'm an American.)

It's in response to that I think you see most of the "hate" you assume. Not all. Some just hate. But a conspiracy? Eh, there's the talk of a Marxist one... but really.

I can and have documented the "Christian Conspiracy" of the past 30 years for power as real (though it's really a political one to use and abuse Christianity, not the other way around), but I can't find the anti-Christian conspiracy for the life of me. Have you? And evidence of opinion is not documentation of conspiracy. If people reject your witness, even with spite... it's not because they've been brainwashed or a shadowy force is pulling strings. They just aren't Christians.

You want to know why people bash Christians? The same reason they crucified Jesus - fear.

Let us not forget who rules the Earth - Satan, the light-bringer, the serpent, the devil, the deceiver of the whole Earth.

True Christianity is a message of love, peace, forgiveness, and sharing. There is nothing bad about it. What organized religion has done in the name of Christianity, does not mean Christianity itself is to blame. That was man's choice. Its no different than the extremists blowing themselves up in the name of Allah - that is not in their religion. You cannot blame those who follow the message, for the mistakes of others who have misinterpreted it.

So for those bashing Christians, I pray for you all, may you find Jesus in your life, because He does love all of us.

Well, Jesus prayed that we would find God in our life, An Entire new thread. I find it bizarre that Jesus tried so hard to Teach and place the focus on God instead of himself, and most organized churches place the focus on Jesus. Very strange.

Originally posted by toolmaker

Well, Jesus prayed that we would find God in our life, An Entire new thread. I find it bizarre that Jesus tried so hard to Teach and place the focus on God instead of himself, and most organized churches place the focus on Jesus. Very strange.

Its the same reason you talk to your lawyer instead of the judge. Jesus is the mediator. He is the one that speaks for us to the father.

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


We Glorify Jesus, Jesus glorifies God.


------------

RANT

The hate is merely a small part of the conspiracy that 'I' see.
You would get a good laugh at what I' see.
I look at things in terms of a God who created all things, and a fallen angel and his followers.
So yes, if you start from that point, then you will see a very large conspiracy. If you dont start from that point, then you wouldnt notice.

Originally posted by jake1997No. Those are not the two commandments that comprise the entire 10.

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, [color=Red]"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."
[/color]

Get to it then and start loving God not some mortal man other mortal men found necessary to declare was also God when the flaws in their teachings were called on the carpet.

Refer the red text in my signature as well. Matthew has sinned gravely, for who makes the laws, God or anyone else?

They comprise the entire 10. That is the moral law.

Actually no they do not, refer my posts and learn what the real ten were, they were not those you accept.

As for being anti-christ. That is a typical defense by Christians to attack and try to silence non-Christians, however, it has no meaning to non-Christians since in order to be anti-anyone, one must first accept that someone's philosophy was/is espoused by him/her. The correct terminolgy which you will never use because you would rather deflect the criticism, is, anti-Christianity.

First off, how can Christianity be the ONE true religion when JESUS wasn't even a Christian?

That said, this post does have a good point. There IS an anti-Christian agenda in the US today. And guess what: it's your precious "Christian conservatives" who are behind it!!

There is an attack on Christianity today, but it is because of your so-called leaders. If you can't accept that, stop crying about it...

RANT
You took my last post , which I intended to not be part of the topic, and made it part.
I suppose I should have stated that I was going off topic.
My emphasis was intended to show a distinction between what I see and the rest of the thread.
The thread itself is there to try to get you (the general public) to notice that the anti-christian behavior on this board is only indicative of what is happening in the larger world.


It would be another thread...perhaps "Satans conspiracy - Spiritual warfare" if I were to tell you what I see.