Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You show an article about a moron of a teacher.

Is he a moron or is he voicing what other Anti-Christians are saying/thinking? I wish I could say he was the only one and that there aren't webrings and other communities who would agree with him. It's a few pages back, but have posted the links to them.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
There are plenty of disgusting articles about Christians if you want to compare notes.

I'm not speaking of individuals.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Catholic priests sodomizing very young boys for instance. Shall we compare notes?

Yes. Show me where the Catholic Church community advocates sodomizing very young boys.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Some Christian leader just got arrested for all kinds of nastiness.

Ah, but did they advocate said nastiness before doing so? Or, did they realize they were going against the church and try to cover it up? Did the teacher in question here go against the doctrines of Anti-Christianism?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Do you really compare stories?

Although it is off-topic (see the title) you may post as you wish.

[edit on 2-4-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
saint, i'm sorry, but you're going to have to focus on a more real conspiracy right here on ATS

Well, I spoke of three levels so far:

1.) Direct - With the example of theistic satanism

2.) Organized but not as direct - Webrings, societies and groups that are specific in anti-Christianism

3.) Indirect - Those who do not disclose membership to either two, but are representative of the Anti-Christian voice

Feel free to address any or all of the above.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
it's a conspiracy by supposed christians (i say supposed because they're giving christians i consider my friends, like you, a bad name) to utterly subvert both atheists and polite, civil, logical, and informed conversation on this forum.

How so?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the conspiracy against christians here is one from the inside. these christians are clearly the thing truly harming you most, those that don't realize that whole "love" message was kind of a big deal.

Feel free to add to the list...but please be specific.

Originally posted by saint4God
Well, I spoke of three levels so far:

1.) Direct - With the example of theistic satanism

well, you've yet to really state a clear case for that one

2.) Organized but not as direct - Webrings, societies and groups that are specific in anti-Christianism

same for this one...

3.) Indirect - Those who do not disclose membership to either two, but are representative of the Anti-Christian voice

but the point isn't all of that, the point is that you're missing the point.

the real point will come later, as it fits better that way.

Feel free to address any or all of the above.

i'll choose option D, which i'm making and i find to be far more realistic

How so?

they don't really do that whole "love thy neighbor" thing. well...just look at the posts in the "Are atheist airbrushing history?" and "is there a conspiracy of atheists to overthrow christianity?" threads.

Feel free to add to the list...but please be specific.

ok, option D:
Christians who just don't get it and are going against the good teachings teachings of Jesus while still somehow holding on to the mantle of christian.

...though, i'll admit that this isn't so much of a conspiracy as it is a tragedy.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
well, you've yet to really state a clear case for that one

How many horse-blinders are we going to pass out on this thread? Shauny and I went over this again and again and again. When he'd forget, I'd remind him with quotes, links and specific page references.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
same for this one...

Ditto

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
ok, option D:
Christians who just don't get it and are going against the good teachings teachings of Jesus while still somehow holding on to the mantle of christian.

...though, i'll admit that this isn't so much of a conspiracy as it is a tragedy.

I'll agree it's not a conspiracy. Back to the topic?

[edit on 3-4-2008 by saint4God]

What I enjoy the most is Saint4God's name and his avatar. He is God I think!! Or at least Jesus.......

Doing the Lord's work is a sweaty business! I love the comment about Christian's covering up their bad behavior makes it okay. How does that make sense, god-like one?

Because, Christians USED to be good at covering up their behaviors. They aren't so good at it anymore. Where does it say in the Bible it's okay to cover up bad behavior? Did Jesus die for your covered up bad behaviors?

Madness...I just noticed: you registered on here exactly one day after me! That is some funky wild stuff!!

Keep on truckin'

Sorry to get off topic!


[edit on 3-4-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the topic is sadly dead,

Emporer Madness has declared it dead, all hail madness

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
there isn't really evidence beyond something circumstantial and inferential on the theistic satanism thing,

Would you like to give me his name and the location of their rituals? Even though he's of the opposite belief of me, I still respect him enough to keep his practices confidential unless they are illegal.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and it plays to a lot of media hype.

Ah yes, the media is lying to us about everything. Nothing bad ever happens, it's cute-fluffy bunnyworld when we walk outside.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
sadly, this long lived and originally idiotic thread which turned into a back and forth between you and shauny has run out of steam. you don't really have anything new to put forth....

There's plenty but no point in going to C if we cannot even agree upon A and B.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
so until you do or someone else does, i guess we'll just have to let this thread take a little break

I know you're eager to douse it out, take as long of a break as you need.

Originally posted by saint4God
People have been against Christianity since...well...Christ. He kinda stirred the pot with radical ideas and talk of love instead of money, power, pride, etc. People don't like this. They like their money, power, pride just fine and asking them to give it up sounds like an offensive against their rights. Here's the thing though, Jesus didn't MAKE anybody do that, yet they still feel they're going to be made to do so if there is a Christian majority.

It's been going on for 2,000 some years and since everyone can duck behind their mask (username/avatar) as to not be accountable for their words, there's a certain liberation allowing people to speak freely. Next time you're hanging out with one of your friends, try striking up a controversial topic with them. It's hard and gets ugly fast. I'm a fan of ATS for this reason. If we choose to be, we can be open and honest without hard feelings and retaliation. After all, we don't really know each other here other than what we've said. It's a comfort level that allows us to express what we think. This goes for both sides. There are silent Christians and Anti-Christians, but here we're allowed to make noise about it. Nice, isn't it? My advice is if it starts to affect your day negatively, it's time to walk away for a moment, then come back with a refreshed perspective.

Why are there Anti-Christians all over the place here? Don't take it personally, nobody knows each other. They have a beef with God. The best we can do is help answer any questions or concerns when requested.

Pray, train, study.
God bless.



[edit on 11-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by azhure heart
Please don't assume that I have a beef with God.

No worries, my statement was regarding Anti-Christians:

Why are there Anti-Christians all over the place here? Don't take it personally, nobody knows each other. They have a beef with God.

Unless you're saying you're Anti-Christian and don't have a beef with God?

Originally posted by azhure heart
My relationship with God is just fine, thanks I just have a hard time accepting man-made religions. All that we know of Christ's teachings are handed down to us by the jottings of men - so excuse me for being skeptical.

By all means be skeptical. It is what we're here to do and I'm a skeptic myself. Here's the thing. We can ask God if Christ's teachings are accurately recorded or not. There's no reason to guess, make assumptions or be skeptical when you can go to the source (God Himself) and be very specific in asking, "Is it true? Did Christ die and was resurrected?" Ask Him anything you want. If you have the fine relationship as you've mentioned here, by all means make this communication. He will answer. Be patient however, and listen on His terms.

Originally posted by saint4God
by all means make this communication. He will answer.

Your point about communicating directly with God is the crux of it all in my opinion.

It is also the very reason why Christianity and all organized religion for that matter are a work of the devil, and a conspiracy against spirituality to keep the individual powerless, so that the purposes of God in providing a Messiah are never fully attained.

The individual must learn how to manifest spiritual power for himself or herself, they must communicate with God, that is one must establish a direct working relationship with the creator, otherwise God remains, in that individuals life experiences, nothing more than an intellectual exercise, rather than an actual force for change.

This is why religion does not teach people how to manifest supernatural power, or if you prefer, how to talk and walk with God and recognize the workings of God in real life.

Religion teaches everything but how the individual can work directly with God for themselves.

God is to be worshiped, "in spirit and in truth."

That is a figure of speech by the way, and for a fuller understanding of intent you could say, "God is to be worshiped, truly via the spirit or by spiritual means," or "truly by the supernatural or by supernatural means,"

Religion does not teach people to utilize spiritual or supernatural means to worship God, in fact the religion itself becomes for the individual a substitute for true worship of God.

Religion is ultimately a denial of the existence of supernatural power, or a denial of the availability of spiritual power to the individual for direct communication and interaction with God.

Only by the operation of spiritual or supernatural power can a person honor and reverence God, it is not possible by any other means because God is spirit not flesh.

You can study your bible all you want, feed the hungry, go on a mission to Uganda, say Jesus a thousand times a day, it is not sufficient as to be called worship of God, unless it is being directed by supernatural means.

God is not a religious of philosophical construct, He exists in reality, or that is if you like you can say, reality exists in God and He interacts with reality in specific ways by specific means which can be defined, understood, and unitized, to produce measurable results.

Originally posted by newday
Religion teaches everything but how the individual can work directly with God for themselves.

Then they're in the wrong church/religion. Both Bible and churches I've attended say to pray to God directly, worship Him daily, and seek answers from Him. This does however point to the subject at hand. The Anti-Christian Conspiracy will seek to divide God and church, because of their strong unity and synergy a majority of the time.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Then they're in the wrong church/religion. Both Bible and churches I've attended say to pray to God directly, worship Him daily, and seek answers from Him.

What has the church/religion specifically taught you about the operation of supernatural power from God in order for you to achieve true worship?

I have attended literally hundreds of different Christian churches of all denominations, and even the Pentecostal teach to use their religious doctrine as your means of worshiping God, not by the use of supernatural power or by the manifestation of the Gift of holy spirit.

Originally posted by saint4God

This does however point to the subject at hand. The Anti-Christian Conspiracy will seek to divide God and church, because of their strong unity and synergy a majority of the time.

You are making a mistake it is not an Anti-Christian conspiracy it is an anti-Spirit conspiracy and has nothing to do with any religion or church.

In order for a religion of any kind once it has organized to continue to exist, or that is in order for those individuals who control the religion for their livelihood to continue riding their gravy train, they must make the adherent powerless in some way or dependant on the religion for some need or want, because they are themselves dependant on the religion they operate to provide for them, their religion takes the place of God for them.

Religion is dead a work of this world and man not God.

God is alive, and the God of the living not the dead.

Christianity does not liberate the individual, it reduces their freedom, by obstructing the individuals growth in the knowledge and operation of spiritual power provided freely to all those who believe regardless of race or religion.

Christianity developed for the non-believers, like all religion it feeds on our fear and lack of faith not on our courage and confidence in the ability of God to provide what we lack.

Individuals who have God in truth, that is those individuals who have the power of God at work in reality in their lives, do not need religion

If you lack faith then you are unable to manifest spiritual power, and as a result you look for other ways to find power over the circumstances of your life and the lives of others, that is where Christianity comes from.

Sick people, the weak, the poor, people who needed help came looking for miracles and healing, because they heard the word from the people in their lives of the works of Jesus, Peter, and other men of God.

True men of God imparted the help that was needed, but when these men of faith died, the knowledge and ability to perform miracles and healings and such was lost.

But people today still come, looking for help and salvation, the sad thing is that the Christian religion is unable to provide it, because there are no men who operate spiritual power left in it, only deceivers claiming to represent the almighty God.

If your Christian God is real then why doesn’t He do something for His people?

Is the God man Jesus unable to perform miracles?

Is the God of Christianity sick like those who worship Him?

What is your Christian God doing taking a nap?

You should never believe a man claiming to know God or the way to God, in whom God does not show Himself by signs miracles and wonders to be evidently with.

Unless you don’t actually believe God is real and never changes, that is to say that as He was with all the prophets and holy men of the past so He is the same today.

Why would God do miracles and wonders for the people in the bible and not for us now, isn’t He the same yesterday today and forever?

You see Christianity is just a philosophical exercise it has nothing to do with reality.

It does not have the power to liberate a person in body and mind only to increase their bondage in this world.

Most people if you ask will say they believe in God, but they do not in fact believe fully, yes they do mentally accent to the idea, but if they believed fully they would see God manifested in their life in definable measurable ways, whether they were Christian or not.

I do think that there seems to be a mass attack on Christianity as the o/p suggests. Unfortunately I also think that the problem runs much deeper.
This may sound odd, but I think that the majority of Christianity is being fooled by satan - including all catholics and subsequent followers of the sunday Sabbath. Even in the new testament when Jesus is being tempted by satan, satan has no problem in quoting the Holy scriptures.

One of the ten commandments was to observe the Sabbath. The Sabbath was and still is Saturday - the move to sunday was a catholic decision alledgedly due to Jesus being resurrected on a sunday (there is some doubt as to whether this is true). i.e. sunday worship is a manmade commandment, not Gods commandment. Jesus said that no part of the 'law' was to be done away with until all be fulfilled.

Another false teaching is that the dead are alive now in Heaven, and that the evil are eternally punished. The bible does not state either scenario. The bible says that Jesus will return and that everyone will be resurrected and judged - the good will be rewarded with eternal rule with Jesus, the evil will be eternally destroyed (i.e. destroyed once and for all, not to be eternally tortured). There wouldn't be much point in resurrection and judgement if the dead were already eternally alive somewhere in heaven/hell!!

The film Zeitgeist is criticized by most christians for seemingly obvious reasons. However, the truth is, that the film shows how the catholic and subsequent churches did indeed hijack pagan festivals, invented a trinity and all the other pomp and ceremony that we see in the church today. I urge you to read the book of Revelation to see for yourself how the masses will even be fooled by this false church, which appears to be sincere in following Jesus whilst acting against everything he taught. Zeitgeist does not refute true christianity, only the man made churchianity.

I would urge all Christians to check out the website of the Living Church of God (I am not affiliated with them in any official way, but I do believe that they are seriously enlightened in understanding the Bible and consider myself a member albeit by proxy). The LCG follow the understandings of Herbert W Armstrong, who wrote a magnificent book "Mystery of the Ages" which is freely available off the net. If you can't be bothered to do this, then at least read the Bible for yourself.

Originally posted by Tassadar
Mr No One,
Here are the fallacies in your last post:

It might stem from the inherent hypocrisy in Christianity

No, Christianity, the belief in Christ, is not hypocritcal.
some Christians maybe, but that's because Christians aren't perfect man, we're just forgiven.

Most Christians (especially evangelicals) will preach tolerance and understanding while they condemn any whose beliefs do not match their own

some example please?

The topic of homosexuality is a perfect example. While most Catholics maintain that the act of homosexuality is a sin, being a homosexual is not a sin as long as you abstain from the act itself.

woah, wait a second
Homosexuality is a sin, just like any other.
Homosexuality is also a choice, made by men, to rebel against God, and their God's plan.
Morality is not relative.
God is just.

Most Christians would say that even admitting to being a homosexual is a crime against God.

Tell me, who? They need to be set straight.
If a Christian is a homosexual, he needs to break out of that bondage.
Admitting it would be confession, admitting your sins to God.
Then they need to seek forgiveness from God's mercy and grace.
and repent (turn around and live a heavenly lifestyle)

It is this level of intolerance that causes a fear and hatred among non-Christians.

The truth is that much of the Church is driven by false motives, and they try to call people to repent when they are also living in sin.
Christ warned against this: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? - Matthew 7:3

I think if we were to examine the true meanings of the teachings of Christ, absent of the views thrust upon them by religious leaders, we would see that tolerance and understanding are at the heart of everything He taught.

Close.
He taught love.
But he warned against false doctrine, which is the reason for apologists (defenders) of the Christian faith (doctrinally speaking) to perform their duties.

To distort and twist that message into use as a weapon against those who are different from you is, IMHO, the worst sin of all.

Agreed.
However, these are people who are wrong.
Not the Scriptures or God himself.

Cling tightly to what is true.
- Tass

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Lillith_girl_of_the_night]