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The Anti-Christian conspiracy

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posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by Quazga
Nope just trying to get people to be honest about what they know.

. . .

That way you don't sound like a crackpot, just an ordinary joe who believes in scripture.


Not my reality.

or

Hogwash . . . take your pick.

Most? authentic Christians have a RELATIONSHIP with THE LIVING WORD Jesus The Christ.

HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF AND THE VALIDITY OF HIS WORD IN HIS

RELATIONSHIP

WITH US.

When one finds someone RELIABLE, TRUTHFUL, 100% HONEST ETC . . . they tend to treat what such a person says or has said as 100% FACT.

This is REASONABLE.

Also, when a 66 book collection with thorough going internal validity and incredibly prophetic accuracy over 100's to thousands of years has thusly validated itself 100's of times to the nth degree and detail

it IS REASONABLE

to then treat that text as FACTUAL.

I don't recall you prefacing your remarks with:

"My anti-Biblical bias indicates to me that . . . "

Sheesh.

I think this is an example of what the thread topic title is all about.

DOUBLE STANDARDS and lop-sided assaults on Christianity.




posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
Most? authentic Christians have a RELATIONSHIP with THE LIVING WORD Jesus The Christ.

HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF AND THE VALIDITY OF HIS WORD IN HIS

RELATIONSHIP

WITH US.


This doesn't surprise me, there's probably people who 100% believe they can speak to Elvis. Jesus isn't special in this circumstance. It has nothing to do with Jesus or Elvis actually 'being there', it has everything to do with a person's desperatation to believe that Jesus or Elvis is there, and in some capacity, still alive.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
Also, when a 66 book collection with thorough going internal validity and incredibly prophetic accuracy over 100's to thousands of years has thusly validated itself 100's of times to the nth degree and detail.


Would you mind posting some of these prophecies? Plenty of Christians I've seen 'say' about these prophecies, but none ever seem to post them.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
DOUBLE STANDARDS and lop-sided assaults on Christianity.


I think it's more that other religions don't stick their noses in so much, but for Christians, that's one of their favorite hobbies. Such as trying to get ID taught along-side evolution as a alternative theory. Or protesting abortions, not based on personal opinion, but because God says it's wrong. You just don't see other religions pushing their agenda as much as Christians.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
there's probably people who 100% believe they can speak to Elvis.


The hilarious Jerusalem Elvis for one, oh and Elvis now communicates in Hebrew since it's the official language of heaven. Awesome!

Anyway, there's some silly event going to be held at London's Earl's Court soon...... Mission to London presented by the absurd looking Dr Morris Cerullo. Not sure what he's a doctor of, medicine? Journalism? I went to have a look at his organisation's website, very entertaining and most amusingly they even do online prayer sessions!

Here's an article about last year's "event":
Last year's Mission to London

Now I'm no Christian, so the thought of "people are encouraged to go out and declare the Kingdom of God and the Gospel of Christ." kind of freaks me out a bit. I, for example, don't go around telling people to:

"Hear the best with your ears
and ponder with a bright mind.
Then each man and woman, for his or her self,
select either of the two, the better or the bad mentality."

The billboard for the "Mission to London" claimed that it welcomes all people of all religions, it seems to me rather unlikely that believers in other faiths will feel particularly comfortable at such an event.

Now, I'm not anti-christian in the same way that I am not anti any religion. Many Christian charities do sterling work across the world in many disaster stricken areas. However these "preaching" events do unnerve me, partly since they seem to be so removed from genuine faith, seeming to generate emotions more akin to hysteria that enlightenment.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Hailthekingoflights

Originally posted by Mr No One
It might stem from the inherent hypocrisy in Christianity. Most Christians (especially evangelicals) will preach tolerance and understanding while they condemn any whose beliefs do not match their own. The topic of homosexuality is a perfect example. While most Catholics maintain that the act of homosexuality is a sin, being a homosexual is not a sin as long as you abstain from the act itself. Most Christians would say that even admitting to being a homosexual is a crime against God. It is this level of intolerance that causes a fear and hatred among non-Christians. I think if we were to examine the true meanings of the teachings of Christ, absent of the views thrust upon them by religious leaders, we would see that tolerance and understanding are at the heart of everything He taught. To distort and twist that message into use as a weapon against those who are different from you is, IMHO, the worst sin of all.


Jesus didn't teach acceptance or tolerance for any sin, not even homosexuality. He taught the acceptance of anyone seeking to turn away from those sins and seek after him. Why would a God who destroyed cities and nations becuase of sin, all of a sudden turn around and say that we should just start accepting it.


Yes. Jesus is God (the Son) of the Old Testament. ~~ "Jesus Was That Rock"

Then this same Jesus, came in the flesh to die for men because they turned from Him in the Old Testament. To then bring them back to God who causes us to fulfill the Righteousness of The Law of the Old Testament so that the New Testament might believed on.

Peace.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Jesus-Is-Real

Originally posted by janasstar
Satan,... He puffed himself up, and took a third of the angels and waged war on God and tried to overthrow Him and set his throne above God's throne. How many of us wouldn't defend our camp and those in it?


yes that's true, God's Word bears this all out.

God bless you friend,
Connie


Could you show me how it is that the legends in bible can be equated with truth?


If it's a legend in the Bible, then I can't.

But I tell you the truth, God's Word (not just a collection of books) iti's "Truth". Jesus said to The Father, "Thy Word is Truth".

Moses wasn't lying to us when He wrote.
Neither was Joshua.
Nor the Judges.
The Kings.
The Prophets.
Matt-John the Revelator.

It's The Word of God; it's the perfect law of Liberty cleansing the soul. It washes us. It's Supernatural. Yes, it really is. It's "Spirit" just like God is, written out by Holy Men moved by The Holly Spirit. No joke.

Wait for God to confirm this to you my friend, then we will be on the same page and we can go from there. Until then, just put it on a shelf (per se) and let God show you. He will, if you ask Him. You seem to have had some time in the Bible, so keep searching and when it's God's Time to "happen to you" (as He "Happened to me" and I wasn't even seeking after Him) you will know and be wise for 'yourself'. As I am wise for myself, but if I scorn, I alone will bear it. Try reading the Proverbs tonight. I got to Proverbs 12 this morning. And I read the Truth in the Bible about Samuel, Saul and David last night before I went to bed. I read in bed a lot.

Fair enough? Friend!

In Peace,
Connie



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 12:43 AM
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But I tell you the truth, God's Word (not just a collection of books) iti's "Truth". Jesus said to The Father, "Thy Word is Truth".


um ya thats pretty ignorant of you to say

That line was just put in the bible so that the church could have something in the bible to back up that everything they say and do is right because god 'told them' or 'god said so'. do you even know the history of the church? have you heard of the crusades?

why dont you read about all the crusades and how the church ransacked and slaughtered thousands of innocent people.

en.wikipedia.org...


the church is a business and will always be a business using people's longing for that something that is missing in their life to make money



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by Jesus-Is-Real
Jesus said to The Father, "Thy Word is Truth".


So even though this board's moto is 'deny ignorance' you're still allowed to use the 'I said so' arguement or the 'He said so' arguement as 'Truth'?



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Most? authentic Christians have a RELATIONSHIP with THE LIVING WORD Jesus The Christ.

HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF AND THE VALIDITY OF HIS WORD IN HIS

RELATIONSHIP

WITH US.


This doesn't surprise me, there's probably people who 100% believe they can speak to Elvis. Jesus isn't special in this circumstance. It has nothing to do with Jesus or Elvis actually 'being there', it has everything to do with a person's desperatation to believe that Jesus or Elvis is there, and in some capacity, still alive.



WRONG.

As I've posted elsewhere on ATS . . . Jesus The Christ has saved our family farm from loss a number of times following a quick prayer.

Perhaps more importantly . . . a RELATIONSHIP, a DEMONSTRABLE RELATIONSHIP accrues to those who TRULY SEEK HIM AND HIS PRIORITIES.

DESPERATION has nothing to do with the ongoing relationship. It may have to do with folks seeking Him or deepening their relationship with Him, but NOT in the way you assert.

Your assertion speaks of delusion. Elvis is a delusion, at best.

Jesus The Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings . . . and when persistently acknowledged as such in an individual's life . . . things change. The individual concerned particularly changes . . . for the better and in eternally significant and eternally lasting ways.

A non-existent Elvis doesn't change anything.

You see equal status between two entities you assert don't exist. I pray that perspective changes. But, I suspect an attitude underlying it will prevent it changing until the attitude changes.

The Scripture EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

WILL

impact your life. WHEN and HOW it does is somewhat up to you. It can impact it for eternally better here and now . . . Or, it can become . . . a kind of forced submission and acknowledgement at a point in the future when your attitude will have already made a lot of very long term choices for you.

Scripture indicates rather wisely and profoundly, in my experience, that those who deny the existence of God are not overly perceptive. Given the evidence in His behalf, I have observed that to be somewhat of an understatement.

There's an interesting classic little book . . . SAMUEL MORRIS, THE MARCH OF FAITH.

It's about SAMMY, an African chief's son.

For hundreds of years, Sammy's tribe had fought with a neighboring tribe. The custom in that region was that the tribe that lost surrendered the chief's son(s) for torture until sufficient booty, ransom was paid.

Sammy's tribe, at that time, tended to lose say about 80% of the time.

The key part of the story opens with Sammy tied to a tall stake in the middle of a clearing in the jungle. He has been tortured for 3 days and often into the nights. It is in the wee hours of the morning of the 3rd night.

Sammy has no strength to stand and is essentially hanging by his hands limp against the post.

He hears a voice tell him to "GET UP, RUN."

He's convinced he's delusional.

A second time, a voice clearly says "GET UP AND RUN."

He's convinced he's very delusional.

A third time, a louder, more insistent voice insists he must "GET UP AND RUN."

Only this time, he discovers quite shockingly that he suddenly HAS STRENGTH TO STAND AND THAT HIS BONDS ARE LOOSE. Wisely, he runs into the jungle.

In the dark jungle, he discovers there's a mysterious light with the same voice. The light and voice lead him for 2-3 weeks (I forget) through the jungle--to food, water--and on a mysterious journey.

Finally, the voice and light lead him to a walled compound. The voice says: "IN THERE, YOU WILL LEARN OF ME."

It is a missionary compound. Approximately 16 year old Sammy has begun a new adventure with The Living God.

NO ONE will EVER be able to tell Sammy the least bit convincingly that Jesus The Christ is only a delusion, nonexistent.

Sammy (around 1900) has an uncommon anointing on his short life. He's very candid with God. He tends to just look up with his eyes open and talk to God as he would anyone else he knew. Sammy's faith in God is absolute, comprehensive, 100%.

Sammy ends up speaking in large meetings around the world until his death at 21 (as I recall).

But a very unusual phenomenon tends to occur wherever Sammy speaks. The auditorium can be massive--the largest in the area . . . and Sammy can be trying to sneak in quietly in the back door.

BUT THE MINUTE HIS FEET CROSS THE DOOR THRESHHOLD, MASSES OF ATTENDEES RUSH, RUN, SCREAMING, REPENTING TO THE FRONT OF THE VAST ROOM--SEEKING GOD. And all that's happened, is that unbeknownst to them, Sammy's feet have crossed the door into the room . . . obviously accompanied by Holy Spirit's convicting power and Presence.

None of those people rushing to the front to repent could be convinced that Jesus The Christ was nonexistent, a delusion.

He was tangibly, forcefully real--blessing them with a compelling burning in their souls to make things right with Him IMMEDIATELY.

Not everyone is blessed with such tangible evidence. Many are called to walk strictly by faith. Scripture indicates a greater blessing accrues with such a call to such a walk strictly by faith.

Sadly, some evidently are blinded by their own willfulness and horrific attitudes toward God. At some point, God even evidently allows a kind of blindness to descend upon their spiritual eyes and other perceptions.

That's an awesomely frightful state.

Johnathan Edwards used to preach about how awesomely horrific it was to fall into the hands of an angry Almighty God unprepared, unrepentant.

And so it is.




posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby


Originally posted by BO XIAN
Also, when a 66 book collection with thorough going internal validity and incredibly prophetic accuracy over 100's to thousands of years has thusly validated itself 100's of times to the nth degree and detail.


Would you mind posting some of these prophecies? Plenty of Christians I've seen 'say' about these prophecies, but none ever seem to post them.



NOTE: YOU MAY WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE BLUE BELOW for easier reading, if your chosen background makes it hard to read as is.

SOMEWHERE ON ATS there is a posting of 100 of such. But I can list some. References are readily available via keywords at

HTTM://WWW.BIBLEGATEWAY.COM

1. That Israel would be scattered all over the world and made a mockery, a curse amongst the nations of the world as a punishment for their rebellion, not truly acknowledging God as God in their individual and national lives.

2. That in the END TIMES, God would regather Israel again to the Holy Land and in the closing chapters of that future era, make Himself again very known to them.

3. That also on said END TIMES era, knowledge would massively increase all over the world.

4. And during that future era (from the stand point of the prophecy), travel would also greatly increase and be very rapid--with lights on the vehicles (IIRC--If I Remember Correctly)

5. Also, in that end times era . . . signs in the heavens would dramatically appear, increase.

6. And Jerusalem would become a super heavy burden, problem to the whole world.

7. A world government would form. And implement

8. An ID method/mark (some scholars say inserted) in the hand or forehead WITHOUT WHICH THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BUY OR SELL. For the first time in 2000 years since that prophecy--precisely in the same era that the other END TIMES prophecies have already come to pass or are rapidly coming to pass, the

(A) TECHNOLOGY in the SLAG--SLAve taG--injected computer chip ID and
(B) the NWO plan, determination, requirement

precisely match that prophecy.

9. That those refusing the Mark of The Beast will be executed. Some sources say the guillotines are already set aside in warehouses all over the USA . . . that method allowing better organs for transplant.

10. That those accepting the MARK OF THE BEAST MUST bow down and worship satan/the world ruler or die.

That's ten such prophecies.

Elvis can't match even that "few."
Buddha can't match even that few.
Mohammed can't match even that few.
Krishna can't match even that few.
Karl Marx can't match even that few.
Bertrand Russell can't match even that few.
Ghandi can't match even that few.
Rosie O Whacko can't match even that few.
Michael Bore can't match even that few.
Satanists can't match even that few.

And there are dozens upon dozens more.

The statistical odds of any book 2,000 years plus ago being so accurate are truly astronomically ridiculously huge . . . far beyond any rational pretense that such could occur by chance.

Yet you pretend that your construction on reality is more rational and fact based than mine. LOL. What a farcical perspective in the face of the solid evidence.




Originally posted by BO XIAN
DOUBLE STANDARDS and lop-sided assaults on Christianity.


I think it's more that other religions don't stick their noses in so much, but for Christians, that's one of their favorite hobbies. Such as trying to get ID taught along-side evolution as a alternative theory. Or protesting abortions, not based on personal opinion, but because God says it's wrong. You just don't see other religions pushing their agenda as much as Christians.

Yes and no. Depends on where.

ISLAM--particularly the Jihadi version--but somewhat most all of it--pushes it's construction on reality fiercely, assaultively, and with bloody torturous death far more. And historically, virtually always has--contrary to a lot of propaganda to the contrary.

Some Hindus do, to this day in various regions of India.

Some voodoo cultists do in certain areas.

But, yeah, God asks us to share the GOOD NEWS.

Some unwisely and unChristianly make of Christian philosophy a kind of idol, cult and do all kinds of silly things supposedly in the name of Christ that Christ didn't instruct them to do.

They take their psychodynamic family of origin problems and pathologies and layer a shallow label of Chrisitanity over the top of such hideous troubles and go around making more destructive trouble. That's quite sad.

But it doesn't negate the truth of Christianity.

It is unwise to tempt God; to mock Him; etc.

Yet, He does invite folks to fair-mindedly check Him out--"prove Him" in the King James version.

Try 90 days of asking God to make Himself real to you. IF you can fairmindedly do that each day for the 90 days, He will.

But HE WILL DO IT ACCORDING TO HIS WISDOM AND WAYS, NOT YOURS. There will be sufficient evidence for belief. Yet, He is UNLIKELY to force belief. It's unlikely that He would provide a miracle that would leave 0.000% doubt. He tends to have higher criteria, benchmarks, demands for faith, trust on the part of those seeking Him.

It was different for Sammy. For some reason, God saw fit to bless Sammy with very demonstrable supernatural leading for the 5 or so short years of his Christian life from the beginning. And tens of thousands met God as a result.

But most of the time, seekers must be very attentive and truly seek God from their hearts above all else. . . . and they must be prepared to acknowledge whatever tangible, real, touching evidence of Himself that God provides that individual. It's virtually always tailor-made for each individual . . . to reach and touch some specific part of that person's concern, life as no one else can . . . with insight, awareness, understanding, sometimes even healing . . . But HE'S THE BOSS. He does it His way.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
As I've posted elsewhere on ATS . . . Jesus The Christ has saved our family farm from loss a number of times following a quick prayer.


Why could this not be coincidence?

There's only three outcomes from praying. The outcomes are 'Yes' 'No' and 'Wait'. If your prayer is answered with 'Yes' then whatever you prayed for happens relatively quickly, days or maybe weeks, and you attribute it to Jesus/God, even though it could easily be coincidence. Your prayer is answered with 'Wait', this means you still get what you prayed for, but perhaps over a matter of months, maybe even up to a year, again easily coincidental. If you prayer is answered with 'No', you still have to trust that God/Jesus knows best and you have to stay faithful and trust God/Jesus.

So no matter what way out of the three, the prayer is answered, it doesn't alter your belief, and prayer wins each time, even if the prayer is answered with 'No'.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
Your assertion speaks of delusion. Elvis is a delusion, at best.


So you talk to a dead guy and this equates to a deep relationship with the Son of God. However, another person talks to a dead guy, albeit, a guy you don't talk to, and all of a sudden that person is delusional?


Originally posted by BO XIAN
You see equal status between two entities you assert don't exist. I pray that perspective changes. But, I suspect an attitude underlying it will prevent it changing until the attitude changes.


So because of my attitude I can't see Jesus for what he really is? So it's all my fault basically? Don't worry, that's the same excuse faith healers use when you're not healed, they tell people that their faith isn't strong enough.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
The Scripture EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS


Well I'm not bowing or confessing.. So your scripture is lying.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
BUT THE MINUTE HIS FEET CROSS THE DOOR THRESHHOLD, MASSES OF ATTENDEES RUSH, RUN, SCREAMING, REPENTING TO THE FRONT OF THE VAST ROOM--SEEKING GOD. And all that's happened, is that unbeknownst to them, Sammy's feet have crossed the door into the room . . . obviously accompanied by Holy Spirit's convicting power and Presence.


Millions of people have walked in to the same room as this man, and will assert the same conclusion you have made here about being in the same room as sammy:

video.google.com...

However, this person is a proven fake, a con-artist, and yet millions still flock to see him, millions still give him money, and millions still believe he can heal through Jesus and Jesus is in that room with them.

So yes the people in that room are delusional and the people that were in Sammy's room where also delusional, there is no difference.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
1. That Israel would be scattered all over the world and made a mockery, a curse amongst the nations of the world as a punishment for their rebellion, not truly acknowledging God as God in their individual and national lives.


Basically this is prophecising that people wouldn't live in Israel their whole lives. So God here has prophesised migration. I actually did this when Bulgeria were going to join the EU I said 'we'll end up with a bunch of bulgerians coming to the UK'.. what happened, lots of Bulgerians came to the UK



Originally posted by BO XIAN
2. That in the END TIMES, God would regather Israel again to the Holy Land and in the closing chapters of that future era, make Himself again very known to them.


Hasn't happened.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
3. That also on said END TIMES era, knowledge would massively increase all over the world.


Could this be anymore non-specific?


Originally posted by BO XIAN
4. And during that future era (from the stand point of the prophecy), travel would also greatly increase and be very rapid--with lights on the vehicles


So another prophecy about migration. Orwell told us in 1948, about a world with cameras on street corners etc. Low and behold, cameras are on street corners, thousands upon thousands of them. So is Orwell a prophet?


Originally posted by BO XIAN
5. Also, in that end times era . . . signs in the heavens would dramatically appear, increase.


Another vague one. Hasn't happened.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
6. And Jerusalem would become a super heavy burden, problem to the whole world.


Again an extremely vague prophecy. Doesn't say 'why' they would be a burden. If famine for some reason strikes at Jerusalem, are we going to say that is a sufficiant enough burden that it proves this prophecy?


Originally posted by BO XIAN
7. A world government would form. And implement


Surely that's called the UN? Or are you more on about the NWO type government? Again a non-specific prophecy.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
8. An ID method/mark (some scholars say inserted) in the hand or forehead WITHOUT WHICH THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BUY OR SELL.


Could you post the 'actual' prophecy?


Originally posted by BO XIAN
9. That those refusing the Mark of The Beast will be executed. Some sources say the guillotines are already set aside in warehouses all over the USA . . . that method allowing better organs for transplant.


Hasn't happened.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
10. That those accepting the MARK OF THE BEAST MUST bow down and worship satan/the world ruler or die.


Hasn't happened.

Perhaps you would like to post the actual prophecies? Then maybe we could get somewhere with some of them, as I couldn't find the phrase 'Lights on vehicles' also you've failed to give chapters/versus.


Originally posted by BO XIAN
Try 90 days of asking God to make Himself real to you. IF you can fairmindedly do that each day for the 90 days, He will.


I went to Christian based faith schools from the age of 5 to 13. Not at any point during that time of praying, singing hyms, being in church, did I ever feel anything along the lines of 'God is here'. So that's nice you saying try 90 days, but I tried for 8 years and got nothing.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 

You know friend, it wasn't until I opened my own forum that I realized that this argument is a complete waste of time. We may not see it as an argument, we may think of it as explaining, or Good News, or an 'invitation.' But I found very quickly why the word tells us not to cast pearls before swine. And that's not name calling to anybody, by the way. So let me explain. The way I see it is if God's Words are pearls and they're thrown into a a hog lot, the hogs might get mad because they are slipping and sliding on them, and turn and tear the thrower to pieces. Where if the pearls are thrown to children (potential children of God), they will be skating around on them in joyous fun and excitement. I see it as another parable of sorts. And that's exactly why these discussions won't work. The other parties see it as an imposition, and an intrusion and I wish to God I'd never stepped into it. There has to be a better way, but I don't think this is it. I see Jesus being nailed to the cross all over again with mockery and insults. Peace everyone!



[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 04:25 AM
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I'm going to touch on one more thing and then I'm out of here for the night. Why is the sin of homosexuality being singled out? The bible says that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory...
There's only one unforgivable sin, and that is blasphemy. And blasphemy means rejection. The bible says it can't be forgiven in this world or the next.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by janasstar
There's only one unforgivable sin, and that is blasphemy. And blasphemy means rejection. The bible says it can't be forgiven in this world or the next.


but blasphemy is a subjective crime, even within a religion. prostestants are blasphemers according to catholics and the orthodox, catholics are blasphemers according to the protestants and the orthodox, etc. muslims consider all of the above blasphemers and all of the above would consider muslims blasphemers.

again, your unforgivable sin is something that is entirely subjective.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by janasstar
There's only one unforgivable sin, and that is blasphemy. And blasphemy means rejection. The bible says it can't be forgiven in this world or the next.


but blasphemy is a subjective crime, even within a religion. prostestants are blasphemers according to catholics and the orthodox, catholics are blasphemers according to the protestants and the orthodox, etc. muslims consider all of the above blasphemers and all of the above would consider muslims blasphemers.

again, your unforgivable sin is something that is entirely subjective.


Sweetheartheart! I am not a catholic! And I've stated over and over in my forum my reasons for believing that the catholic church should not even be considered christian. And once again, you're missing the point, just for the sake of argument. My point was people singling out homosexuality as 'THE MOST HORRIBLE SIN.' My point is that all sins are forgivable but one, and that sin is not homosexuality, but blasphemy (rejection). Stop tearing evry little thing apart. Let a little bit of goodness come thru. Would ya?

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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My above message was meant to bring a little ease to the suffering hearts of the christian homosexuals. It really wasn't meant for non-believers, because nothing I say, will convince them anyway.
This is my viewpoint when I read the bible with my re-newed spirit and you can take it or leave it: But as I've stated before, I have a best friend who is a lesbian, and I have talked to her in depth about her life choice. She explained to me, that she always knew that she preferred women, but because of society, she tried her best, to do it, 'THE RIGHT WAY.' Twice she married, and was so depressed she nearly took her life. To her, being with the opposite sex was as unnatural as being with the same sex. She is very Christian-hearted. She loves the Lord with all her might. When she swims several times aweek at the gym, she devotes the entirety of the time to talking to 'Louie' as she fondly calls Him.
If anybody tells me that God in His love and mercy is going to cast this woman or anyone like her into hellfire for all eternity for one sin that their flesh is helpless over, I'm sorry, I won't believe it. Sure, they have a chance to repent of it, just as any other sin we commit on this earth. But if we don't get the chance to, then there is a judgement day. There God will require an accounting.
We might can judge that a sin is wrong. But only God can judge the person. I believe that the word says somewhere, "If you come to Me, I'll in no wise cast you out." So, I didn't see Him say EXCEPT for homosexuals.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by janasstar
Sweetheartheart! I am not a catholic! And I've stated over and over in my forum my reasons for believing that the catholic church should not even be considered christian.


and i never once implied you were... the catholic church only came up because i was bringing up the 3 classifications of christianity: orthodox, catholic, and protestant and how they all disagree with each other


each would disagree as to what rejecting god would be.... and that's within the same religion. now throw in all the denominations of all the other religions.


Stop tearing evry little thing apart. Let a little bit of goodness come thru. Would ya?


my point was that what is definied as sin is subjective... there's actually a lining of agreement in there... the whole "homosexuals are sinners" argument is something that comes from the subjective view of bigotry...



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
but blasphemy is a subjective crime, even within a religion. prostestants are blasphemers according to catholics and the orthodox, catholics are blasphemers according to the protestants and the orthodox, etc. muslims consider all of the above blasphemers and all of the above would consider muslims blasphemers.

again, your unforgivable sin is something that is entirely subjective.


In the Bible Jesus clearly defines exactly what kind of blasphemy is unforgiveable. There's no subjectivity to it. As you've said on another thread you've re-re-re-reread the New Testament so I suspect you already know the answer and are just poking believers with a stick. One way or another you're not being entirely honest with us or haven't a great memory for rererereadings.



[edit on 20-8-2007 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by janasstar

But as I've stated before, I have a best friend who is a lesbian, and I have talked to her in depth about her life choice. She explained to me, that she always knew that she preferred women, but because of society, she tried her best, to do it, 'THE RIGHT WAY.'




So as a friend to your friend you felt the best way to help her was to tell her that being lesbian was wrong and sinful? Instead of telling her that society is wrong and that she shouldn't let society tell her and influence her on how to live.

theres something interesting in what u said also. You said that it was "her life choice" but then you say how "she always knew how she preferred women". This is clearly not her choice. She was born as a lesbian and will always be a lesbian. people don't choose to be gay/lesbian.

You should be telling her to embrace what she is and be happy about what she is. There is nothing wrong with her.

and who is to say what THE RIGHT WAY is. god? the bible? This seems to be where you are getting your information on what THE RIGHT WAY is. You seem to be just another person brainwashed by the religion.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
In the Bible Jesus clearly defines exactly what kind of blasphemy is unforgiveable. There's no subjectivity to it.

(emphasis added)
you just proved my point...



As you've said on another thread you've re-re-re-reread the New Testament so I suspect you already know the answer and are just poking believers with a stick.


no, i'm not. blasphemy for a christian isn't the same as blasphemy for a pagan isn't the same as blasphemy for a hindu isn't the same as blasphemy for a muslim, etc.



One way or another you're not being entirely honest with us or haven't a great memory for rererereadings.


no, you just have a myopic view. i'm talking about religion, you're talking about jesus. blasphemy isn't a sin in just christianity.

oh.... and then there are the christians that don't take the bible word for word...

see, there's disagreement within the religion as to what blasphemy is.
you're just saying that it's objective because that is how you view it.


oh, and thumbs up lachoy, i couldn't have said it better myself.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 09:33 AM
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Nice song and dance madness, I'd hoped you were a person of better integrity than that. Rerereread your own statement and what I quoted. It's nice to admit you're wrong once in a while when you're wrong, it does the mind and spirit good. Helps us to learn things instead of being locked in our own narrow-minded mental cage. Sorry I brought it up. Truly.

For those who are not familiar with what madness and I know and are talking about, it is here:

"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." - Matthew 12:31 (Jesus speaking)

Before the haters go "but but but..." and carry on madness' subjectivity dance, there's more than that verse and the whole New Testament explains in even greater detail.



[edit on 21-8-2007 by saint4God]



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