The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Saint4God, you did not do anything,

Thank you, I don't like being charged for crimes I did not commit.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I refer to Christians as a whole, by name and not by actual Christlike lives.

A bit stereotypical to say "Christians as a whole". It's like saying "all Americans think..." or "all left-handed people are..." or "all librarians know..."

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
None of the atrocities done in Christ's name were by 'Christians', but that is not the point.

Thank you...but it is the point.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
The victims were killed by folks who said they were. They were not any other faith, and so the reprisals, if any, would be aimed at the group who hurt them.

So if folks committed atrocities and called themselves "peaches", we'd blame the fleshy, fuzzy fruit?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
If I were to discount every crime that self-proclaimed Christians committed, there would be none, of course!

I accept your challenge. Begin recounting every crime and provide evidence they are a self-proclaimed Christian...starting with Lenin:

"At Perm, 25 Catholic priests had been shot and the bishop buried alive, while at Osa, 30 Orthodox priests had been massacred." - www.loyno.edu...

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
The numbers I meant are relative ones. Millions upon millions killed by soldiers who grew up singing 'Onward Christian soldiers', versus the unknown, but clearly many times fewer Christians killed in the name of Satan.

Let's see the numbers. I've started with one small specific, please begin with your support.

[edit on 3-4-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
"At Perm, 25 Catholic priests had been shot and the bishop buried alive, while at Osa, 30 Orthodox priests had been massacred." - www.loyno.edu...

Christians aren't the only religious group to ever be persecuted. They've even done their own persecuting of various groups themselves.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Christians aren't the only religious group to ever be persecuted. They've even done their own persecuting of various groups themselves.

it could be argued that christianity has one of the best persecution records of any other organized religion. just look at the americaa, they either killed or converted pretty much the entire indigienous populations

look at how europe turned out as a majority christian continent, that wasn't done through peaceful ministry and "witnessing"

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by saint4God
"At Perm, 25 Catholic priests had been shot and the bishop buried alive, while at Osa, 30 Orthodox priests had been massacred." - www.loyno.edu...

Christians aren't the only religious group to ever be persecuted. They've even done their own persecuting of various groups themselves.

I provide facts, you provide opinionated assertion. Lovely.

Still waiting for proper address.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
it could be argued that christianity has one of the best persecution records of any other organized religion. just look at the americaa, they either killed or converted pretty much the entire indigienous populations

look at how europe turned out as a majority christian continent, that wasn't done through peaceful ministry and "witnessing"

Ditto for you madness. Are we just going to start flinging around our whimsical musings or are we here to deny ignorance?

Still waiting for proper address.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by saint4God]

I believe there is absolutely an anti-Christian conspiracy.


Having been on both sides of the fence, and having seen so much information and opinions put forward, both on the internet and in real, everyday life, I have come to the absolute conclusion that there is truly an anti Christian conspiracy.


It seems today that ANYTHING goes, as long as it is not the God of the Bible.


There are so many followers of either atheism, occultism, or whatever.........you name it.......


But, to mention that you believe in the actual Bible...........Well......that is just silly, narrow minded, bigoted, brainwashed nonsense.....yet you can subscribe to any other belief system.

And why? ......because the bible tells us that in the last days, people will want to hear what their itching ears want to hear, and not the truth.


People will no longer subscribe to sound doctrine, but will be blown about by every wind of doctrine that comes their way.


But these people don't seem to realize that they are storing up destruction for themselves.

But they don't have to answer to me, and won't....ultimately....thier argument is with the God of the bible, who sent His Son to dies for us....

But there are few who find the path.


From one who knows.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by Old Man]

Originally posted by Old Man
There are so many followers of either atheism, occultism, or whatever.........you name it.......

Choose your words a little more carefully. 'Followers' of Atheism? I'm hardly a 'Follower'.

Maybe you forgot but there are about 1.5+ billion followers of the Christian faith.

Originally posted by Old Man
But, to mention that you believe in the actual Bible...........Well......that is just silly, narrow minded, bigoted, brainwashed nonsense.....yet you can subscribe to any other belief system.

I think with religions such as Scientology, being popularized lately by Tom Cruise, makes us see that people will actually believe anything. Scientology has more focused life-skills to follow and how to deal with life etc. I think that side of it comes across as a 'way of life' and almost like a psychologist in a book perhaps. The faith side with the whole alien spirits seems a little far-fetched. But then again so does a world wide flood. I think the reason why you're complaining about an anti-christian conspiracy is because people are looking to alternatives to fill their lives, whether it's scientology or occultism. Christians hate losing sheep from their flock. But I hear numbers have increased in some churches due to us opening our doors to European immigrants. Apparently they can't get enough of Jesus.

Originally posted by Old Man
People will no longer subscribe to sound doctrine, but will be blown about by every wind of doctrine that comes their way.

So I was right in saying you're annoyed that people are going elsewhere for their 'religion-fix'. Just because they don't believe in the bible, it means they must be anti-christian.

Originally posted by saint4God

I provide facts, you provide opinionated assertion. Lovely.

Still waiting for proper address.

The Inquisition.

Judaism and Islam were targeted during the Spanish Inquisition.

Witch hunts were a popular hobby in early Europe.

In the old testament God even commands that temples and idols of pagan non-believers be destroyed.

Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

Exodus 22:18 "You shall not permit a sorceress to live."

Those have been interpreted to include 'witchcraft', such found in the Wiccan faith.

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

Encourages persecution of homosexuals.

I think that's a good start.

shauny,

that last bit isn't accurate. jesus doesn't and didn't promote harrassing anyone.

he demonstrated how he felt the sins of others should be dealt with by his handling of the situation with the woman caught in adultery. he said, he who is without sin cast the first stone. and since none were without sin, they all dropped their stones and walked away. this is true about anything, even about homosexuality, or different religious or non-religious beliefs. it's taught in the new testament, that if a person doesn't want to be a christian nor hear the salvation message, you're supposed to leave them be and not harrass them.
all those events you describe are not taught in the bible. they are humans making mistakes. old testament law, which are not christian teachings to the same extent. jesus modified our approach to the law. he didn't do away with the law, he fulfilled it in his own life, for the reason that, we simply couldn't fulfill it to the degree of accuracy needed not only to satisfy God but to satisfy each other. forgiveness was necessary and he supplied it.

please stop confusing old covenant with new covenant.

Originally posted by undo
that last bit isn't accurate. jesus doesn't and didn't promote harrassing anyone.

The question was not 'Does jesus promote harassing anyone?'.

it's taught in the new testament, that if a person doesn't want to be a christian nor hear the salvation message, you're supposed to leave them be and not harrass them.

Persecution of homosexuals isn't an OT thing. It's very much so a modern issue with conservative Christian beliefs.

please stop confusing old covenant with new covenant.

When it comes to prophecy fulfilling, the OT is important to prove Jesus is the messiah. Yet, when it comes down to God saying kill a man who lays with another man, suddenly you don't follow the OT anymore.

Wish you could make up your mind. Or is it common practice to pick and choose what to believe and what to ignore?

because the prophecy was for the purpose of fulfillment.
jesus was the fulfillment.
people who harrass homosexuals for their lifestyle choices, are not
following what christ taught. he taught us to do right, to live right,
to teach our children right, but not to force these things on people
who aren't interested and to not judge, since we were not without
sin, even when forgiven.

essentially, what you are picking up on is the very thing that made
it necessary for jesus to do what he did to begin with - that is, people
make mistakes. every religion and non-religion, makes mistakes.
people judge each other, all the time, for whatever reasons, and none
of us are like shinning examples of perfection that we should think our
judgement is any more moral or righteous than the next guys when it
comes to one on one. the only significant difference is how to deal
with locally applied laws. render to caesar what is caesar's, but render
to God what is God's. basically indicating that we not be trouble
makers, to try to follow the laws and ways of the society we are placed
in. a rather common sense approach.

the laws of the community reflect the moral standards of one group
over another, as a general rule, there will always be some people who are less accepted than others. for example, in the mainstream, homosexuality is more accepted then cigarette smoking. 40 years ago, it would've been the exact opposite. society is a standard setter. we follow where the standards go, and then some go out and enforce those standards. those who do the enforcing, are the ones we remember as being the guys who were gonna stone the lady for adultery.

this is true literally everywhere on the planet. you're proving it even now, with your viewpoint on christianity. you're trying to institute yourself, as one of the guys with the stones, to enforce the new standard of social order that you feel is the most appropriate for the planet. i'm not throwing stones back, but rather raising my arms in defense.

Originally posted by undo
people who harrass homosexuals for their lifestyle choices, are not
following what christ taught. he taught us to do right, to live right,
to teach our children right, but not to force these things on people
who aren't interested and to not judge, since we were not without
sin, even when forgiven.

So the Christian groups who don't accept homosexuals aren't following what Christ taught? Shouldn't someone point this out to them..

You didn't really address anything.

I was showing historical evidence of Christians persecuting other groups, whether or not you think that doesn't count because they're not following Christ's teachings is neither here nor there. The fact remains that Christians persecuted other groups. That was the point at hand, not Jesus' teachings.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by undo
people who harrass homosexuals for their lifestyle choices, are not
following what christ taught. he taught us to do right, to live right,
to teach our children right, but not to force these things on people
who aren't interested and to not judge, since we were not without
sin, even when forgiven.

So the Christian groups who don't accept homosexuals aren't following what Christ taught? Shouldn't someone point this out to them..

You didn't really address anything.

I was showing historical evidence of Christians persecuting other groups, whether or not you think that doesn't count because they're not following Christ's teachings is neither here nor there. The fact remains that Christians persecuted other groups. That was the point at hand, not Jesus' teachings.

do all americans do american things? do all men do manly things?
you're comparing oranges and oranges, over and over again.
the premise and the answer will always be the same because the
comparison is a closed circuit. logic dictates that the problem isn't
any given group, but the human condition. the human condition is
what jesus taught about, that we were to strive to be better ourselves,
to share that with others, and if they don't want to have anything to do
with it, walk away.

that people still try to force their ideals and mores
on each other, no matter what the flavor, is the problem. it's what
causes the complaints you're raising. it's what causes the whole vicious
cycle to reboot, over and over. and if you continue with your direction you're going in, you just add fuel to the same cycle, a never ending
totally illogical, useless war of ideas and concepts.

jesus taught us to jump off that crazy
train. but we're human, and as a result, we seem to have problems
comprehending that. you seem a sensible person, why can't you see it?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Choose your words a little more carefully. 'Followers' of Atheism? I'm hardly a 'Follower'.

Sorry shauny, but you're not as original as you think. You are indeed a follower of a prescribed ideology.

Originally posted by saint4God

I provide facts, you provide opinionated assertion. Lovely.

Still waiting for proper address.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
The Inquisition.

Judaism and Islam were targeted during the Spanish Inquisition.

Witch hunts were a popular hobby in early Europe.

This is not a proper address. This is a new topic. Please address my topic so we can address yours. Or, are we saying that yes indeed athiests murdered these Christians, now let's move on?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
In the old testament God even commands that temples and idols of pagan non-believers be destroyed.

Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

Exodus 22:18 "You shall not permit a sorceress to live."

Those have been interpreted to include 'witchcraft', such found in the Wiccan faith.

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

Encourages persecution of homosexuals.

I think that's a good start.

How many Christians were there in the Old Testament?

[edit on 5-4-2007 by saint4God]

I am constantly amazed how many people on here, who delve into the occult in all kinds of ways, and yet who still claim that their belief systems have anything to do with God, Jesus or Christianity.

I have read quite a number of posts from people on these boards who claim they are workers of 'light', for example.


But they are not. They are deceivers, and deceived. Just because they claim to be 'light' workers..........well, remember that the devil transforms himself into an angel of light....and so do his messengers, or followers.



Consider the following scripture:



"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." Isaiah 8:20


End of story. According to God, you are deceived, and are captives of your father, the devil.

Originally posted by Old Man
I am constantly amazed how many people on here, who delve into the occult in all kinds of ways, and yet who still claim that their belief systems have anything to do with God, Jesus or Christianity.

the occult? example?

I have read quite a number of posts from people on these boards who claim they are workers of 'light', for example.


But they are not. They are deceivers, and deceived. Just because they claim to be 'light' workers..........well, remember that the devil transforms himself into an angel of light....and so do his messengers, or followers.

oh, the old followers of satan rant. that got old when the roman catholics and greek orthodox churchs started using it against each other

Consider the following scripture:
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

End of story. According to God, you are deceived, and are captives of your father, the devil.

actually, that's according to some guy by the name of Isaiah

Just wanted to give a plug to another thread,which for mine is an anti-Christian topic one that involves us all,Christian or not.

As far as a conspiracy goes I`m yet to see anything that could be considered bigger than what is talked about and explained in this documentary.

Its about the Satanic symbol layout of DC,the Illuminati, Americas forefathers, secret societies,the occult etc,which in a nut shell should be disdurbing enough given that America is the worlds most powerful super power and world police,but this goes beyond just America,though the video looks mainly at it.

Funkydungs thread(a few posts down ConspiracyNut23 has posted the complete video in three parts)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Approx 2 1/2 hours in total is a large download I know,but its well worth the time and very well made imo.

Originally posted by undo
do all americans do american things? do all men do manly things?
you're comparing oranges and oranges, over and over again.

Just because Jesus didn't teach to persecute, it doesn't mean that Christians didn't/don' persecute.

I never said 'all' Christians are persecutors. I said Christianity has persecuted other groups, which is true. I'm not saying 'YOU' have done this. However, Christianity has.

jesus taught us to jump off that crazy
train. but we're human, and as a result, we seem to have problems
comprehending that. you seem a sensible person, why can't you see it?

Christians persecuted other groups. That's historic fact. The sooner you accept your religion's history, then the sooner you can come to terms with it. Sure Jesus didn't teach this, but the religion that follows him still went ahead with persecution, and still do today.

The question was not 'Does Jesus teach us to persecute'. Saint had a problem with me saying that Christianity had persecuted other religious groups in the past. I was showing some examles.

Originally posted by saint4God
Sorry shauny, but you're not as original as you think. You are indeed a follower of a prescribed ideology.

I said nothing about originality. I'm not prescribed to any ideology. Nice of your to judge me though.

Originally posted by saint4God
This is not a proper address. This is a new topic. Please address my topic so we can address yours. Or, are we saying that yes indeed athiests murdered these Christians, now let's move on?

You were saying Christians have been persecuted in the past. I was pointing out that Christians have also done their fair share of persecuting other groups. Whenever you've brought up the persecution of Christians, you seem to forget that they've persecuted other groups.

Originally posted by saint4God
How many Christians were there in the Old Testament?

So when it comes to things like a world wide flood, the OT is vital to tell this story. Yet, when it comes to Leviticus, you should ignore whatever is said in that book because Christians weren't around then.

Just picking and choosing what parts to believe and what parts are easy to ignore.

I agree, Christians have done that. Absolutely. In fact, I said that right off the bat, and I didn't even say they weren't christian when they did it. It obviously wasn't an example of following christian teachings though. And that's essentially my point.

Every group of people on this planet has harrassed every other group, but at the moment, christians seem to be the newest target for pop culture abuse. I think what's happened is, the guys who manipulate public opinion, as they have done for as long as I can remember, target the hormones of the youth, present them with a dark, dreary adult concept that threatens their vitality and sexuality, and attaches a stereotype to it for the youth to be angry at. This started by putting up film clips of mainstream preachers and isolated gruops of christians gone bonkers, marching in protest against homosexuality. That was so deliberate, i just can't begin to impress on you how false that picture really is.

There are literally millions of christians who have no problem whatsoever with your personal sexual decisions. Who know they have no room to judge you for your personal sexual decisions. Who, in many cases, don't even want to know about your personal sexual decisions. They might tell you the bible talks against one thing or another, but they also might tell you the bible talks against obseity (how many fat people in the USA nowadays, anyway? and now that i'm on that topic, what about all the fat people that get abused, as well? the planet is just a hateful place unless you decide to stop the vicious cycle, right where you stand, and that includes not abusing the least popular kid on the block, just because you can. personal responsibility).

Manipulating public opinion for political gain is the new standard. This serves several purposes, some good, some downright Nazi-esque in their approach and result. At the moment, its the christians who wear that dark, dreary adult concept that threatens the vitality of youth and the planet. Of course, that's complete bunk, totally manufactured for the purposes of changing the social climate at the expense of as many people as necessary.

Hitler did the same thing with his youth programs. When the adults started catching on to what he was doing, he killed them off and replaced them with his pre-programmed youth corps.

Originally posted by undo
Every group of people on this planet has harrassed every other group, but at the moment, christians seem to be the newest target for pop culture abuse.

I think at the moment minorities are getting treated better, so it seems as though the majorities are ignored. And it is true, the majorities are ignored. For example taking down Christmas displays, and calling Christmas parties 'Winter Holiday parties' and so on. I think in the race to make minorities feel better, majority groups have been shunned to one side.

I'm not sure however if this constitutes to a grand conspiracy. I do however think it shows just how ignorant our polititions and people who run this country are. They're so keen to try and accept Islamic and Muslim people, that they often forget that there still needs to be a medium, which would be to accept Christians as well. It's almost a 'given' that Christians would be accepted. But then again we all know how Christmas is today, certain things being taken down, the holiday refered to as 'Winter Holiday' etc.

Manipulating public opinion for political gain is the new standard. This serves several purposes, some good, some downright Nazi-esque in their approach and result. At the moment, its the christians who wear that dark, dreary adult concept that threatens the vitality of youth and the planet. Of course, that's complete bunk, totally manufactured for the purposes of changing the social climate at the expense of as many people as necessary.

There's always going to be social change and change in attitudes towards different things. I think what you're saying is Christianity is seen today as 'The Bad Guy'.

Saying that..

Just heard a story on our local news 'Look East'. Was a story about the reinactment of Christ's crucifixtion in Bury St Edmunds. Some 75 people from different denominations acted it out, all playing different parts etc. And some 2000 people were in the streets watching and followed through the streets as the actors went about their business.

Maybe your towns don't do this.. but one near me obviously doesn't think of Christianity as 'The Bad Guy'.