The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by curiousity


"So we're looking for something new to be said. Any takers?"

Who's we?

I suppose the trinity of me, the mods and the TAC. Believe it or not Moderators occasionally moderate discussions. If we didn't we'd be called Warners or Thread Movers, but since we aren't I'm moderating a bit when I see fit.

Moderators are posters too, so it get's confusing, but I usually try to make it obvious when doing one or other even with subtle differences like Off Topic headers, blue lights and not including my sig.

It's possible I didn't make that obvious before, for which I apologize. It's also possible you know all this and are just being a jerk with the "who's we" bit. But I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as just being curious, Curiousity.

I know we have crossed before rant but I think you have a good point and to tell you quite frankly I enjoy you guys being mods at times when your participating just for reasons like you have pointed out ....however even I find sometimes the stance of poster debator / or the moderator is clouded and subtle to the point it can get missed , but Im getting used to the signals as such I believe others may be doing the same but dont have a familuarity yet with each mods way of conducting themselves.

I was reading the paper the other day and it said......
There shouldn't be a mention of the Holy Ghost or about the body and blood of Christ to children because......

''It frightens '' them ...........C'mon

I think the sight of a DEVIL is what they should have said..

Yes Jesus Christ did and does LOVE all people ./..........He wishes that no one goes to hell........this is a choice that each and everyone of us has to make in this life.......

We brake the LAW of man..........we get punished for our crime(in this world)..well, some do get away with many things......ALOT of things......which is upsetting to others that do the right thing.......which truly should not realy concern us because this is not for us to place judgement.......
Im not saying that ALL Christians are good and that all the others are bad.......this is not what Christ taught.....
Jesus Christ said Follow me........to follow Him, is to listen....realy listen to His words.....why He said and did what He did.......Why He appointed the Apostles (Acts speak of the church..old and new Testament)and told them to go out and tell the world what He taught.....
get back with more later...
helen.......

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Byrd
Well, there's at least four towns where Jesus himself condemns everyone in them to the flames of hell because they wouldn't receive his apostles. And there's the fig tree he blasts because it didn't have figs... in the middle of winter, when fig trees NEVER have figs.

He also talks back to his mom.

Would you be kind enough to reference the verses being discussed here?

Matthew 10:14-15, Matthew 11:20-24, Matthew 21: 19-20 Mark 6:11, Luke 10:10-15 Mark 11:14, 20, 21... etc

Originally posted by ByrdThe OSAS (once saved always saved) topic is always good for some flameage.

I'd be interested in hearing more. The Bible gives warning about falling away (just before the book of Revelation) but I don't see where it says "once saved always saved". Why would it give a warning about falling away if you cannot fall away? I could be wrong and would welcome any contrary verses. Perhaps a new thread on it? I don't think I have the background to take a solid position on it as of yet.

I'm sorry -- it's actually a topic that I have no interest in since I'm Pagan. I'm just reporting what I see the Christians condemning each other for. I think it's a better topic for discussion on any number of boards that deal with the Christian religion, where you can hear both sides from believers.

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Well, what you have said it true many people of different faiths can live together peacefully, however, you must admit, that in looking in the world this is the exception, Israel comes to mind.

...and Bosnia and a number of the African countries and Ireland, etc, etc...

When laws are made, that is when, the dirt hits the fan.

The Biblical 10 commandments were religious laws, as I recall... (your Irony Meters should be hitting the top of the line right about now)

The Holy Bible is banned in public school libraries,

Along with the Necronomicon, the Satanic Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Witches Bible, the Koran, etc, etc. If you allow the Bible in, then you must allow all the others.

pray is banned,

Along with Santaria sacrifices (legitimate religious ceremonial prayer), Native American prayer ceremonies, Wiccan circles, Druidic prayers, Satanist prayers/spells, etc, etc. If you want prayer back in then you must include the others under religious freedom acts.

sex education is taught including masturbation,

Not teaching sex education isn't going to keep kids from having sex. Teaching them religion instead of sex education leads to them thinking some pretty unreliable stuff -- like oral sex isn't real sex and anal sex isn't real sex.

and homosexuality,

Yes, they teach tolerance for homosexuality. They don't teach "this is how you get to be a homosexual." And no amount of teaching can turn a straight person into a homosexual... or a homosexual into a straight person. Teaching tolerance reduces the violence that's directed toward homosexuals -- and I see no reason to beat up on someone because of their skin color, their hair color, their eye color, or their sexuality.

evolution is taught as a fact, causing millions to lose their faith.

The Theory of gravity is also taught as a fact, as is the theory of electromagnetism, etc, etc. The "causing millions to lose their faith" is patently false for there are any number of liberal Christians who are Christian and believe in evolution.

...unless the strict literalists have managed to throw them out of the church.

Atheism was a treatable mental illness until 15 years ago.

Perhaps in your country atheism was considered a mental illness. Here in the West, it was never diagnosed as a mental illness and in fact there's a long tradition of some fairly famous and celebrated athiests in the arts, music, literature, philosophy, medicine, and the sciences. Nobody hauled them off and gave them drugs and electroshock or exorcism to turn them relgious.

You say, there is no conspiracy against Christians? What would it take for you to say that someone somewhere is plotting to destroy Christian ethics in the U.S.?

Well, I'd say the Christians had quite a hand in it.

You may not be as familiar with the history of the US as I am, but the people who lived in the 1700s would be appalled and shocked at things like women voting, women wearing pants, women driving cars, women owning property, Indians getting a college education, Indians owning property, Indians able to become legislators, restrictions on the age of marriage (many girls were married by age 13 back then), not being able to sell the poor into forced labor, where children as young as 8 were sold to the mines and factories, etc, etc, etc.

The Christians all destroyed THOSE morals.

Before the Christian morals of the 1700s came the Christian morals of the 1500s. The Christian morals of that time also included the "droit du segnieur" -- where any noble could take as his sex playtoy any peasant's wife/daughter/son, where children as young as 9 could be sold into slavery and prostitution, where you could be accused as a witch and killed (no real proof needed) and where your guilt was assumed -- all that was needed was for the torturer to break enough of your body parts so you'd come up with a "good enough" confession. Their good morals also included exterminating the Native Americans (including bringing along the European war dogs and having the dogs rip living children to shreds... so that the priests could say a blessing over their little dying bodies and make sure they got into heaven. Yes, really.)

The Christians of the 1700s had destroyed many of THOSE morals (except the ones that applied to women and Native Americans and Blacks. And the Irish. It would take another 400 years to undo those morals)

And the Christians of the 1500s had destroyed many of the Christian morals and practices of the 1100s, which were comparable to the fundamentalist Islamic religious practices of today.

...and so on and so forth.

So let's put the blame right: nobody did it to the Christians. Society as a whole moves onward and changes, and some of the things that change are Christian morals.

How is it that Holy Russia, was a Christian nation, and overnight it become the godless killers of 60 million people? 150,000 Russian Orthodox priests were killed. Do you think, there could have a godless communist plot to take over Russia?

Plot? No. Coup -- absolutely. There's a huge difference. And if you're up on your Russian history, you may remember some of the atrocities of the tsars (who also mandated much of the worship.) Stalin was an equal opportunity oppressor -- he also did the same to the Jews, and they're hardly Christian.

We now have the same preconditioning happening here, but I am supposed to turn a blind eye. This is ATS for heavens sake! Of course, maybe only certain kinds of conspiracies are allowed here? Eh, comrade Bryd?

Bryd, please do not take this to harshly as I am only trying to make a point.

Actually, what you're missing is that the REAL root cause of this -- as researchers have shown:
www.leaonline.com...
is that there is an increasing secularism which is brought about by increasing global contact. In other words, the more that people encounter new ideas and new people, the LESS likely they are to follow any strict religion. If you wanted a strictly religious society, you'd have to take mankind back to the 2500 BC era, when almost everyone lived in villages, had no contact with anyone else, had arranged marriages, lived in large family groups, and were illiterate.

The religious leaders could then control the people and make sure that everyone was properly religious and beat or stone to death the ones that people suspected of being irreligious.

Now... you're welcome to live in that society, but I think most here aren't ready to give up jobs and cars and the Internet and so forth for the privelege of living in a tent with no bathrooms and permanent campfire cooking.

And of course, your sources also ignore the interaction of the teenaged generation and the parental generation -- a time in which (if a society is not ultra-conformist) the kids begin to question and ask about values and justice and other complex issues. This is usually the crest of a generational shift in ideas:
www.religion-online.org...
(also libweb.lib.buffalo.edu... )


Sorry to dump all the scholarship on you, but I just happened to be doing a selection of papers on the impact of culture on the Internet experience and happened to have read this week a handfull of papers on religion and the media.

The bottom line is that you've been fed some "truths" that were packaged up in a way that you wouldn't question them. and your own religious nature basically discourages you from doing some fact-checking on these "turths."

This puts you in a weak position to argue when there's a lot of surveys and films and interviews and so forth that a scholar (like myself) can grab from even sources that YOU would find credible -- that say your pre-packaged truths are very misleading.


[edit on 14-4-2005 by Byrd]

The Anti -Christian conspiracy............

Quote//
In a matter of salvation the understanding of the truth is indispensible; without it no one can achieve eternal life.
It is said that they who are strangers to the illumination of truth

Walk in the wordly vanity of their mind,
having their understanding darkened,
being alienated from the life of God(Eph.4:18);
they have their portion in this life(Psalm16:14);
who mind earthly things,
and whose end is destruction(Phil.3:19)
The truth of God calls such people .......the faithless and perverse generation(Matt.17:17),
and for that reason says to us:Save yourselves from this untoward generation(Acts2:40).

Light is come into the world ,says the LORD,and men loved darkness rather then light(John 3:19)
The prophets, too, appealed:Who beleived our report?
And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed(Is.52:1)?
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God(Matt.22:29).

'''''The Abbot of Holy Trinity Monastery jan16th ,1946Abbot Panteleimon..........
Glory Be To God......
helen.....

to the list of so-called Christians demonstrating that they have no faith in their "faith" so they have to have laws enacted to force (and enforce) their beliefs, I repectfully submit the name of Sadie Fields. Those of us in Georgia know her as the most hate-filled, vicious, and ruthless female in the ultra-extreme Christian Right (which is neither).

There's your consipiracy - it's the right vs. the far-right that is tearing Christianity apart. It's the Albigensian Crusades all over again...

[edit on 14-4-2005 by Al Davison]

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that there is an anti christian conspiracy. I think that there is an anti christian agenda. There seems to be a strong anti christian tone in the mass media (no pun intended). For instance, Mel Gibson was one of America's most beloved actors. "The Simpson's" even did that show about him suffering from 'over populatiry', ie. people like him so much that they go to his films, no matter how bad they are, and won't criticise him, no matter how much he deserves it. After he ddi "The Passion", there was a sort of outrage. On some message boards,people were implying that he had 'flipped out', and that something needed to be done about him. Why all the fuss? Surely he has the right to make a film based on his beliefs?

Some people seem to find the idea of faith threatening. It's been one of the things aimed against George W. In fairness to the man, he hasn't played up his faith. He's kept it as personal as a man elected pres of the USA can keep anything. He hasn't flaunted his beliefs openly. Yet there are some commentator's who seem to feel that there is too much religion in the White house ( as opposed to not enought adultery??). They have the right to their opinions to. There just seems to be some sort of concerted effort, or 'party line' invovled.

Originally posted by Agent Orange
Some people seem to find the idea of faith threatening. It's been one of the things aimed against George W. In fairness to the man, he hasn't played up his faith. He's kept it as personal as a man elected pres of the USA can keep anything. He hasn't flaunted his beliefs openly. Yet there are some commentator's who seem to feel that there is too much religion in the White house ( as opposed to not enought adultery??).

There is an excellent documentary by PBS called "The Jesus Factor" that examines the role of W's faith in forming his presidency. The whole thing is available online as well as a great deal of commentary and supporting material.

Bush's religious views are central to the majority of his actions as President. They inform his moral character, his view of the world as being binary (good vs. evil), and his sense of his personal destiny ("God called me to be President"). All of which are sufficently disturbng to even some religious people to cause him to be considered overly religious.

If you want a group of people who truly engaged in an anti-Christian conspiracy, I invite you to consider our Founding Fathers. When this nation was first founded, a number of states had provisions in their Constitution which forbade a minister from being elected or appointed to public office.

And they, of course, are the ones who wrote into the Constitution the prohibition against establishing a religion (as a part of the state). Consider how you would feel if your were dragged in front of a judge who had a statue of Shiva on his bench. Or a passage from the Koran on the wall.

Putting the Ten Commandments into a courtroom makes it seem like Judeo-Christian values and views are preferenced in our Courts. Which, under the Constitution, they must not be. Forcing public schools to narrow their sex education calles to fit the moral teachings of certain branches of Christianity limits the ability of students to make responsible choices within their own religious values system.

And that's were the idea that Christians try to force their views on others comes from. In the public sphere, we don't promote any particular religion. No do we promote religion in general. Our government leaves religion to the people to deal with freely. We do not, as Queen Elizabeth II famously said, "peer into mens' souls."

Or, at least, that's how it is meant to be.

If you'd prefer to live in a Christian state, governed by Christian values and with a mandatory Christian religion... well, then, by all means, find one or create one. It's a free country and, for the most part, you can leave when you like.

(Did I really just pull an "America -- love it or leave it"? Oh, my!)

If you'd prefer to live in a Christian state, governed by Christian values and with a mandatory Christian religion... well, then, by all means, find one or create one. It's a free country and, for the most part, you can leave when you like.

I'm way ahead of you, I'm Canadian! See what happens when you make assumptions and jump to conclusions.

You are right about the founding fathers. Wasn't Thomas Jefferson an athiest? However they were right about the seperation of church and state. I never did say that a country should be run by religious principles. Didn't Jesus Himself say "Render unto Ceasar..."?

On the other hand, I don't believe that religion should disqualify anyone from public service. I do believe that there are people who would make religion a 'political issue', and that they want to push an 'agenda'. Though much of it is 'liberal', or 'leftist', it isn't really 'pro worker'.

The white collared. colledge educated middle classes latched onto communism, or more precisely "Lenninism", as a means of furthering their 'class agenda'. They wanted to get on in the world, and felt that the rich were an almost insurmountable obstacle. The only way to get on in the world is to 'knock off' the guys directly above you.

So revoloutinary socialism had a big appeal to a class of people who wouldn't have a 'worker' over for dinner, and certainly wouldn't want their daughters dating a plumber. They admire the idea of Lenninism, where a party of 'intellectual elite' take over, on behave of the oppressed, and then hold the govt 'in trust' for them. This was Lennin's idea, and a lot of it has been borrowed an adapted by the Western left over the past 50 yrs or so.

Borrowing from Lennin, they feel that the fastest way to destroy the class system, is by knocking down the 'structure'. So religion, as part of the tradional value system, has to go. Hence religion tends to be attacked when ever possible, while atheisism is promoted as 'rational', or 'scientific', and there fore right. Of course when the communists took over in Russia, science, like art, became subordinate to politics.

This is also what made the intellegensia such ardent supporters of the information technology revolution. Decentralization promised a collapse of the power structure. With no machines, or industry, capitalism seemed bound to fail. It only made sense. Imagine, a socialist revolution without workers! Only one group of people like the working class less than the rich!

Thta strategy seems to have backfired. For one thing, Information Tech has changed the entire job market, and converted us into a bunch of Dilberts. That successfully broke trade unionism. Without strong trade unions, you will have difficulty getting Democrats elected.

I'm quite prepared to believe that the right has an active 'anti union' agenda. Hence NAFTA. Get the manufacturing jobs out to parts of the world where people will be less likely to make trouble. (Interestingly, it's a strategy New York fashionistas have also adopted. When 6 top models threatened to boycott designers who used fur, about 10 years back, the major design houses had fits. It may have been Karl Lagerfeld who said that ' a half dozen of these girls can now ruin any designer, if they boycot his show in favour of a rival!' Notice how the 'Supermodels' were suddenly out, and replaced by hard working Latin Americans, like Adriana Lima! American girls were making 5 million a year, and wanted the moon. Latinos were happy if the got 6 figures, and dated an actor!) InfoTech may have fitted into the plan nicely!
I'm not saying that the left are the heavies. The right has their agenda too. The left's agenda may have become a little irrelevant. They do have an agenda, and they do push it.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Agent Orange]

Originally posted by Agent Orange
I don't know if I would go so far as to say that there is an anti christian conspiracy. I think that there is an anti christian agenda. There seems to be a strong anti christian tone in the mass media (no pun intended). For instance, Mel Gibson was one of America's most beloved actors. "The Simpson's" even did that show about him suffering from 'over populatiry', ie. people like him so much that they go to his films, no matter how bad they are, and won't criticise him, no matter how much he deserves it. After he ddi "The Passion", there was a sort of outrage. On some message boards,people were implying that he had 'flipped out', and that something needed to be done about him. Why all the fuss? Surely he has the right to make a film based on his beliefs?

Some people seem to find the idea of faith threatening. It's been one of the things aimed against George W. In fairness to the man, he hasn't played up his faith. He's kept it as personal as a man elected pres of the USA can keep anything. He hasn't flaunted his beliefs openly. Yet there are some commentator's who seem to feel that there is too much religion in the White house ( as opposed to not enought adultery??). They have the right to their opinions to. There just seems to be some sort of concerted effort, or 'party line' invovled.

I'm sorry but the prez in his round a bout way includes his faith in his speeches.

There is no anti christian agenda. Christians like myself are just sick and tired of the hypocrites trying to change the meaning of the words of Jesus to fit what "they think".

The issue of school prayer is a prime example. Why can't they pray in schools, gov't functions, before high school games, etc. It seems the "Christians" who push this agenda have been rotted by the teachings of man, and have forgotten the words of Jesus in the book of Matthew. First book of the New Testament, and just 5 or 6 chapters in.

The flock of sheep is being hurded by ones who will "Get their reward", and fall for it lock, stock, and hypocrite.

I once asked a man who was standing on the corner holding a sign that said "Honk if you love Jesus" about these words. He could only come up with a garbled, untranslatable answer.

It seems the "Christians" who push this agenda have been rotted by the teachings of man, and have forgotten the words of Jesus in the book of Matthew. First book of the New Testament, and just 5 or 6 chapters in.

We may agree more than we disagree. I personally don't believe that I, as a Christian, can have an "Agenda". "My Kingdom is not of this world". I never said that the 'religious right' doesn't have an agenda. Many of them do.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by curiousity


"So we're looking for something new to be said. Any takers?"

Who's we?

I suppose the trinity of me, the mods and the TAC. Believe it or not Moderators occasionally moderate discussions. If we didn't we'd be called Warners or Thread Movers, but since we aren't I'm moderating a bit when I see fit.

Moderators are posters too, so it get's confusing, but I usually try to make it obvious when doing one or other even with subtle differences like Off Topic headers, blue lights and not including my sig.

It's possible I didn't make that obvious before, for which I apologize. It's also possible you know all this and are just being a jerk with the "who's we" bit. But I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as just being curious, Curiousity.

Thanks for the "benefit of the doubt", but still I don't know what moderators do, beyond apparently having the ability to move or delete posts they don't approve of, nor what you are talking about with "Off Topic headers, blue lights", TAC, etc.

I was being curious in the main, but also wondering why it seems that Christian subjects are especially regulated, for so it appears from others' posts, (who seem to know more than I do about Forums in general and this one in particular). It is not at all clear, to me at least, what is and is not allowed by "moderators" moderating.

Not in total denial that I could be a jerk, though

Originally posted by Byrd
Well, there's at least four towns where Jesus himself condemns everyone in them to the flames of hell because they wouldn't receive his apostles. And there's the fig tree he blasts because it didn't have figs... in the middle of winter, when fig trees NEVER have figs.

He also talks back to his mom.

Matthew 10:14-15,

Hm...he says if you are unwelcomed, then it would be unbearable in the future for that home or town. I don't see any blanketing. If it's one home, then one home doomed. If it be the whole town, then the whole town doomed.

Originally posted by Byrd
Matthew 11:20-24,

This is better. He performed the miracles in these towns and they still rejected him. They had proof and denied. Revelations speaks of the same, having proof and denying it. This doesn't mean it's 'cursed' so that anyone in the future ever born there guarentees sufferage of the same fate, for they are not there to witness these proofs

Originally posted by Byrd
Matthew 21: 19-20

Fig tree. Hm, according to www.crfg.org... , it bears fruit. What information says otherwise? If the tree had leaves as it says in the verse (the common fig bears a first crop, called the breba crop, in the spring on last season's growth per the link), then why would it be in the middle of winter since it's deciduous? Deciduous trees lose their leaves in winter unlike most conifers, which are 'evergreens'.

Originally posted by Byrd
Mark 6:11,

No 'damnation' here.

Originally posted by Byrd
Luke 10:10-15

Same as Matt 11. No new material here.

Originally posted by Byrd
Mark 11:14, 20, 21... etc

Same as Matt 21.

Just because there's more than one verse, doesn't mean there's more than one incident. I'm not finding this 'stacking up' of multiple events as it originally appears.

Where does he talk back to his mom again?

Originally posted by Byrd
I'm just reporting what I see the Christians condemning each other for.

Really? Christians condemn each other...as in saying others are evil and going to Hell (damn, convict, sentence, doom - per Merriam Webster's Dictionary) for not understanding scripture correctly? Now you have piqued my interest...where is this again?

Originally posted by Byrd
I think it's a better topic for discussion on any number of boards that deal with the Christian religion, where you can hear both sides from believers.

Christians do disagree sometimes. You know why? Because we're not God. We're not going to get it all right, know all the truth, and know exactly what will happen because...well, you know. Nevertheless! We try to deny ignorace by discussing it. Sounds familiar, huh? Funny how Christians are mindless sheep, yet are willing to disagree amongst each other at times .


[edit on 18-4-2005 by saint4God]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

NO No NO
zxdxd
o;kdjfoas;igfoapwrifgaso oiwhtopasifjhaso; ( banging head on keyboard)

Do you know how hard it is to type with hooves?!!!
ATS goes down and takes my last post with, I must have spent two hours on it...sigh.......................


Sorry Bryd, it was a great refute to your post......sigh.....I will do it again......
I am saving them in Word from now on......


The question is why do people hate Christians? Come somebody tell me? Why, the hate, not the disagreements, the HATE????
I am a Christian, why do you HATE me? What have I done, to bring on Hate other than believe in Christ.

Should all Christians suffer just because of a few wackos? All I have heard about here is how hate is justified by some evil deeds of some Christians. Ok, fine what does that have to do with the rest of us? Justification of hate is a dark road, that ends in very evil things. Don't make me post those evil things. When the Crusaders did it is was evil, when Hitler did it was evil, when Stalin did it is was evil, etc.

World views, using the “Christians have and evil world view” argument is dumb also, everyone has a world view, and they create laws based on them, weather Hindu, Jew, Muslims, Atheists, or even Christians.
So why the Hate????? Nothing else, just answer that question?


[edit on 22-4-2005 by Balaams donkey]

"Anti-Christian Conspiracy"?
Christianity hitself is a conspiracy,a myth constructed of all parts of
myths that existed in the 4th Century , canonised by Eusebius and
institutionalised by a murderer,Constantine "the Great",who declared
JC to be a God.Ref Thomas Paine:
I here close the subject. I have shown in all the foregoing parts of this work that the Bible and Testament are impositions and forgeries; and I leave the evidence I have produced in proof of it to be refuted, if any one can do it; and I leave the ideas that are suggested in the conclusion of the work to rest on the mind of the reader; certain as I am that when opinions are free, either in matters of govemment or religion, truth will finally and powerfully prevail.
The sooner Christianity fades away as a religion,the better for all of us.
Baloria

I am a Christian, why do you HATE me?

I'm so sorry you lost a post...I can well sympathize for I've lost a few of my own on another forum that refuses to recognize I'm registered and logged in after I've spent literally hours researching for the post, and then won't let me go back to my post so I can copy it. I've forgotten that I'm on that forum by the time I have the post ready, hit the send and there ya go...hours down the tube. Sometimes I just give up for the day.

Anyway, I want to address the statement of yours above. I'm sure it is a rhetorical question since you must know Jesus said if the world hated Him it would hate His own. (John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you)

I think it is a great question for non-believers to consider seriously, and not just go along with the others who speak ill of Christians, and, honestly, sometimes have had bad experiences with those who "call themselves by the Name" and don't practice His principles (which is all of us from time to time, without question, since there is "none without sin". ---1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us)

I want here to bring in a sort of side issue, directed to the Christians who post here:

It is beginning to become apparent to me, at least, maybe others are well-aware of it, that there is a "conspiracy" within Christianity, to bring in certain new age practices, under the guise of "taking care of people's felt needs" and so on. This "conspiracy" seems to be furthered by such books as a "Purpose Driven Life" and "Prayer of Jabez" and their writings. Millions of these books sell, and yet, the "taste" of them is so bad, I cannot bring myself to read them completely.

I'm quoting (in part) an e-mail I received today in which a friend speaks of this:

"What these books are teaching is to look within and see the power that is in you to accomplish God's plan for your life. It includes mantra style prayers and deep relaxation/breathing techniques.
Yes I also too believe that the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and understanding and that we don't need a paraphrase of what the bible says written by a fallible man....(but)...Is anyone listening to their Father's voice? Sure doesn't seem so because this new way of doing church "feels good" and is meeting "felt needs". "

[edit on 22-4-2005 by curiousity]

"What these books are teaching is to look within and see the power that is in you to accomplish God's plan for your life. It includes mantra style prayers and deep relaxation/breathing techniques.
Yes I also too believe that the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and understanding and that we don't need a paraphrase of what the bible says written by a fallible man....(but)...Is anyone listening to their Father's voice? Sure doesn't seem so because this new way of doing church "feels good" and is meeting "felt needs". "

[edit on 22-4-2005 by curiousity]


I don't understand your point curiousity. Yes, the Holy Spirit guides us and IS inside each and every one. Most don't listen. Are you saying it is bad to do prayer in a way that makes one feel "good"?

Remember my friend. God the Holy father is the truth. How one goes about speaking and listening to the God is a personal thing. That is why Jesus said to pray in "the closet".

What is your point? Please make it without the teachings of man.

I don't hate Christians. I don't know anyone who hates Christians. I would not want to know anyone who hates Christians. I'm the only non-Christian on my side of the family.

I wonder sometimes if Christians want to feel hated because their scripture tells them that they will be hated so they feel some kind of fulfillment of the scripture if they can make a case that they are hated. That's probably pretty silly but, I have had that thought lately when I read all those NT quotes people post that say "Hey! If we are right, people are going to hate us." I equate that to the same "end times" logic that almost every generation since before the birth of Jesus has held. In fact, the original Christians were heavy into that "end time" stuff (according to many scholars whom I can't quote right now because I don't have my references here with me).

As I posted, and got slammed for before parts of this thread were lost, the non-Christians (at least in North America) are merely annoyed with some Christians. Annoyed does not equal hate. It's that whole procilityzing thing I was writing about. That, plus the Christian Right's agenda to make Christianity the law of the land and have it enforced by the courts. It's merely annoying to most - unless you are gay and then it's more of an assault.

Feel better, now?

BTW - a moderator moved this thread out of conspiracies right before the "outage" and I thought that was a good idea. I expect it will get move to "Below" again because no consipiracy has been demonstrated.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Al Davison]

Please remember the Question.

The Anti-Christian conspiracy Why are so many people soo anti christian? This is what I see. I see threads about many different subjects. Hundreds of subjects. In politics things get heated. On sports teams things get heated. But when it comes to christianity.... I see hatred, dripping wet with venom. Why? This is not a 'hate christ' forum. Christianity is not the largest religion, nor does it have the worst human rights record in the media...it has nothing that should put it at the top of your hate list.

As a Christian, I do understand why the hate exsits, it seems that the author of this thread, and others, including myself want to ask, why? What explaination is there? All I have seen so far is Justification of Hate, not the reason thereof.

I wonder sometimes if Christians want to feel hated because their scripture tells them that they will be hated so they feel some kind of fulfillment of the scripture if they can make a case that they are hated.

Your very right that is very silly to think that. Plus you need to go no futher than ATS, and the posts by non-Christians to see this Hate, put there by non-Christains. Also notice that the posts, are not generally relevante to the topic. Just plain Hateful. Why????????

Here look at baloria's loving comments:

The sooner Christianity fades away as a religion,the better for all of us.

I could return with something equally loving such as "the sooner baloria fades away the better for all of us." That is love, or is it hate????

Baloria, I looked back and could not remember or see, where you posted any proof of anything? Could you show me how you support you claim? I do not think you are God, so you will have to convince me with facts that your claim is valid, especially when I have facts that state what you have posted is untrue.

I here close the subject. I have shown in all the foregoing parts of this work that the Bible and Testament are impositions and forgeries; and I leave the evidence I have produced in proof of it to be refuted, if any one can do it;

Where is this proof? Plus please remember we are talking about why the hatred not is the Bible true, so what if Christians believe in something false? Is it not logical to think, that most religions contain lies? How could there be so many of them and at the same time they are all true? Why do you not attack all of them? This is the basis of this thread, please deal with the question, rather than launching attacks.

I don't know if I would call it a conspiracy, but I would call it a reality. I don't understand the blind hatred(and hating a whole group for the transgressions of *a few* is blind hate or bigotry) I do notice a very fast piling on and put downs toward Christians here. Not sure it equals a conspiracy, but maybe a trend

Do I get mad at people who call themselves Christians? Pretty often. I would like to break my TV when Pat Robertson cons people out of their money. It is NOT biblical to tell the masses that if you give to the 700 club, 3x's your money will be returned to you by God. That it is a sound way to dig out of credit card debt. That would be called bilking the masses, not teaching them about God/Jesus.

Do I get angry when certain family members will give unsound advice in the name of God? When they condemn the child they once mercilessly beat? Part of me does. Part of me forgives them for the past as they *have* changed quite dramatically over the years. My inability to truly forgive comes from within. Something *I* need to work on

Christianity is only made up of individuals. Some better than others, some wonderful and some awful. You see the nutjobs. You see the ones that are hateful. Take time to notice the ones who are truly kind. I have known many truly kind Christians. Granted, they do tend to be lower key about their faith. They exude it vs espouse it. It isn't just a few, there are many out there that do the faith proud.

I do have to say, and this really isn't on topic, but the violent representatives, the shock value ones make me more angry than Non Christians. BECAUSE they bring such a bum rap in the public eye. People are *looking* for a reason to disdain Christians and those that are out bombing abortion clinics or shouting at passerbys that they are going to hell(or Pat Robertson on TV) give them reason.

I don't know when I have been more angry than when I saw a 18 wheeler with graphic depictions of abortions all over the trailer. I had my FOUR year olds in the car with me on an interstate and they were VERY upset by the visual. What did that campaign prove? That you can scare little children?? I was equally disgusted by the parents with their small children in strollers making a life chain down a main road in town. These children were on the edge of an EXTREMELY busy and dangerous road in 40 degree rain. GET A FREAKIN SITTER and take care of the children who have! I am not truly pro choice either. I believe abortion is wrong, but really do not want to outlaw it. at least not in the first 12 weeks. Though, if someone comes to me for advice(and has) I could not in good consience tell them that it was RIGHT. I wouldn't change my friendship with them. Though I would not agree with their decision

So, I understand where the ill feelings can come from. But it is still wrong to paint a whole group with such a broad brush as some on this thread have(only a few though)

I do have to say, that when I go to church, I find it filled with nice people. I find a warm feeling at church. It may just be my choice of churches, as a church is only as good as its leaders and congregation.

Also, Byrd, why do you frequent Christian boards? I do not frequent gay boards, as I would not have anything to really add. Do you go to stir up trouble? I did read you are an Atheist(right?) Or are you seeking the counsel of those there? I am honestly curious.