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WAR: Pentagon Denies Saddam's Capture Staged

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posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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Spokespersons for The Pentagon have come forward to deny allegations by a former U.S Marine that the December 13, 2003"spider hole" capture of Saddam Hussein was fabricated. In a Saudi Arabian newspaper interview published Tuesday, Ex-Sgt. Nadim Abou Rabeh claimed to have participated in the discovery and capture of Saddam Hussein at a modest home in a small village in the area of Dour on December 12th.
 



www.woai.com
Pentagon officials dismissed as ridiculous and untrue a report that the capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq was staged.

A Saudi Arabian newspaper reported Tuesday that a former U.S. Marine, now living in Lebanon, claimed the Iraqi dictator had been captured earlier by a small team of troops, and forced into the now famous spider hole to play a role in a film fabricated by the U.S. military to make Saddam look bad.

The newspaper al-Medina said former-Marine Sgt. Nadim Abou Rabeh claimed Saddam Hussein was caught by a 20-man unit a day before the Army said he was captured. Rabeh said Saddam Hussein was found in a house, and a gun battle ensued that killed one of Marine


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Fifteen months after the event, controversy continues to surround the capture of the deposed Iraqi dictator. At the time of writing, "Ex-Sgt." Nadim Abou Rabeh's enlistment in the U.S marines has neither been confirmed or disproven, however Pentagon officials have not made any statements to refute the fact.



The report by the "Al-Medina" newspaper has only added to the list of debates regarding Saddam's capture and subsequent trial. Readers may be aware of the aspersions of doubt cast as to the true identity of the man presented to the world as Saddam Hussein following his capture. Claims of a "fake Saddam" arose, with apparent differences between the dental condition of the "spider-hole" Saddam and file footage of the dictator being cited.





Without commenting on differences in facial features, as can clearly be seen in the above photo comparisons, the captured Saddam (on the left in both photographs) has extremely irregular lower-jaw teeth and a pronounced "underbite", a condition where the lower jaw and teeth protrude beyond the upper jaw. Conversely, file pictures of Hussein before the invasion show a man possessing set of near-perfect teeth with a "regal" overbite, the teeth of the upper jaw protruding slightly in front of the lower. The reader is left to make his or her own conclusions, but the question must be asked: Can dental condition be reasonably expected to deteriorate to such an extent over such a short length of time?

Reports have even surfaced of Hussein's wife, Sajida Heiralla Tuffa, after eventually being allowed to see her husband claiming that the person she encountered was in fact not her husband, but his double.
Mrs. Saddam says defendant Saddam is not her Saddam

Has the capture of Hussein been one big propoganda sham? And if so, then to what end?

In related news, a judge on the special tribunal to put Hussein and certain regime members on trial in Baghdad was assassinated in northern Baghdad's Azamyiah district on Tuesday, the same day as the release of the Saudi newspaper report regarding the staging of Saddam's capture.
Judge in Saddam Trial Murdered

Related News Links:
www.worldnetdaily.com
www.wokr13.tv
www.worldnetdaily.com

[edit on 2005/3/10 by wecomeinpeace]




posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:16 AM
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The thing is that he truly had at least one double, and this for a long time... why the Pentagon is beign so aggressive into denying the very idea that the man they have arrested was a double is beyond me, sice the Pentagon itself knew about Saddam having doubles.

The two mans on these pics really look different, and not jsut because of teeth. They also have some slight facial differences, such as the shape of the forehead and cheeks.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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I think both photo's on the right are different men and neither of them is Saddam Hussein. The "captured" Saddam looks more like the one we saw in power and I recall they did do DNA tests to confirm his identity shortly after he was captured. I don't recall them ever releasing the results though.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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The three on the left look like the same guy but who the heck is the guy on the top right? Do people even know if they are seeing the real Hussein when they are looking at a picture? I think we may have the double!



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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The guy they "captured" is definitely not the same Saddam that we've seen in the news all these years.

  • Fake Saddam's forehead is not as broad nor as high as real Saddam's.

  • Fake Saddam's "eye-bags" protrude outwards whereas real Saddam's are sunken.

  • The upper portion of fake Saddam's nose, just below the bridge has a pronounced lump whereas real Saddam's is straight and visibly narrower.

  • Fake Saddam's eyebrows are bushier and more upturned at the edges than real Saddam's.

  • Fake Saddam's eyes are larger and rounder, differing facial expressions taken into account.

  • Fake Saddam's lower lip is narrower than real Saddam's.

  • The teeth! THE TEEEEETH!!

We've been had...royally...



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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Teeth?
Facial features?

Why is no one commenting (besides mythatsabigprobe) on the DNA testing that was done on the captured Saddam?
His mention gets dismissed, why?!
Multiples of past ATS threads on this, linking those DNA testings, and yet they fail to appear in this topic thread.

Hello?!

People want to build a so-called "conspiracy case/theory" on something, all the while, ignoring evidences that could or would refute what they are imagining or asserting or claiming....wow.







seekerof

[edit on 10-3-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Teeth?
Facial features?

Why is no one commenting on the DNA testing that was done on the captured Saddam?

Hello?!




seekerof


It doesn't fit the agenda of anti-bush to address the real facts, what's wrong with you man, get with the program.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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I thought for sure we'd either get no comment...ever. Then let it die.

Or a guns blazing denial with stated harsh implications for the errant former-Marine Sgt. Nadim Abou Rabeh.

Not a dismissive Rickyism: Es a re-dik-o-lus.

Keep your eyes on the news for something about to really come out that an easily dismissed fabricated and planted "conspiracy confessional" would overshadow.

Miiiiiiind games...



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
Keep your eyes on the news for something about to really come out that an easily dismissed fabricated and planted "conspiracy confessional" would overshadow. Miiiiiiind games...


Disinfo you say? I could see that. Interesting that the marine in question is of Lebanese descent and that the newspaper was Saudi Arabian.

Regarding Fake-o-ssein's DNA test ID confirmation. Firstly they never revealed the source of the original sample. Guess they must've found a hairbrush in the Hussein's palace, or maybe he was a bad aim at the urinal. Secondly, the tesing was done in a military lab and no independent tests were allowed. Impartial? Hmmm... Complicity? Never!

Funny how government spin simply needs a government source to back it up and everyone believes it.


edit: added link

[edit on 2005/3/10 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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I have a question.
For the sake of argument lets say that indeed they captured the real Saddam. Where is his double then? I would think capturing Saddam's double would be very important. If he fooled his people with his double all these years could he not just resurface and claim to be Saddam? If the double did this he could lead the insurgents to retake Iraq. In my opinion the double would be a priority to capture. If the double was used to take Saddams place for public appearances, how could the people of Iraq know the difference then? Saddam's double should of been captured or reported killed.

Regarding the DNA results, how did they have Saddam's DNA in the first place? They would need it to compare with the prisoners DNA. Have the results of the comparison been released to the public?



[edit on 10/3/2005 by Umbrax]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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wecomeinpeace is right... Tehse DNA tests were done under strict control form the Pentagon and no other private of public expetise had access to the source sample, which might very well has not existed.

Here's the news article about this ex-US MARINE sargent who participated in the cover-up:

www.wokr13.tv...



Ex-Marine Says Public Version of Saddam Capture Fiction

United Press International

A former U.S. Marine who participated in capturing ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein said the public version of his capture was fabricated.

Ex-Sgt. Nadim Abou Rabeh, of Lebanese descent, was quoted in the Saudi daily al-Medina Wednesday as saying Saddam was actually captured Friday, Dec. 12, 2003, and not the day after, as announced by the U.S. Army.

"I was among the 20-man unit, including eight of Arab descent, who searched for Saddam for three days in the area of Dour near Tikrit, and we found him in a modest home in a small village and not in a hole as announced," Abou Rabeh said.

"We captured him after fierce resistance during which a Marine of Sudanese origin was killed," he said.

He said Saddam himself fired at them with a gun from the window of a room on the second floor. Then they shouted at him in Arabic: "You have to surrender. ... There is no point in resisting."

"Later on, a military production team fabricated the film of Saddam's capture in a hole, which was in fact a deserted well," Abou Rabeh said.

Abou Rabeh was interviewed in Lebanon.


Any info coming from the Pentagon or US government as a whole is PARTIAL, as long as it is not accessible and cannot be verified by outside expertise, so it is unreliable. When Pentagon is gonna give a green light to journalists and foreign observers on both their access and their freedom of informational content concering everythign related to the occupation in Iraq, then that'll be fair to say that they are impartial.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Why is no one commenting (besides mythatsabigprobe) on the DNA testing that was done on the captured Saddam?
His mention gets dismissed, why?!
Multiples of past ATS threads on this, linking those DNA testings, and yet they fail to appear in this topic thread.


Is it too much trouble for you to link to the DNA test results? Either way DNA test results mean diddly without a real, verifiable sample for comparison. And I don't consider a dirty razor provided from some woman as a sufficient sample of DNA.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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1. DNA test was done




One day after Saddam Hussein’s capture on December 13, Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, head of the Iraqi Governing Council, announced at a press conference that DNA tests had confirmed Hussein’s identity. The announcement came less than 24 hours after his capture, indicating that the DNA test, which usually takes days to perform, had been conducted with unusual speed.

A spokesperson for the U.S. Army’s 4th Infantry Division, which captured Hussein, told GNN that a sample from Hussein’s cheek had been obtained during his medical examination and was sent away for testing. The DNA was compared to samples already in U.S. possession.
.


I saw the footage of them taking the sample on the news for godsakes. Has no one ever seen or known someone who had a DNA test with a swab to the cheek?


2. HIs teeth??? The picture with the perfect teeth looks to be at least 10 or 12 years old. Alot can happen to someones teeth in that amount of time.

3. Dishevled???You country is invaded and the 'strongest armed forces on the planet' are after you, how would you look. tell you what, hide out in the woods and don't brush you tetth, hair or shave for 3 or so months. See how you look.


4. I buy into hte fact that there were doubles previously, but I feel that this was for the prevention of assasination and more for personal protection. We have him, done deal I think....



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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esdad71, no one is denying that DNA tests were performed; some are questioning the validity of those results. The last sentence in the paragraph you quoted is what needs to be clarified:


The DNA was compared to samples already in U.S. possession.


Where did they obtain these samples? Are they certain they were his to begin with? Etc. You get the point. As of yet I have not been able to find an explanation as to the origin of the samples other than a mistress providing the US with a dirty razor. If you find an official statement about the origin of the samples, please link us to it in this thread.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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Top row 1st pic is the same as the bottom row 1st pic.

Top row 2nd pic is the same as bottom row 2nd pic.

Two differant people.
check out the teeth and also the mole above the left eye brow on the 2nd of each pic.

The nose also seems to have become bulbous too.

The 1st/3rd and 4th pic seems to show his eyes closer together as appose to the 2nd pic where they seem apart more.



[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
1. DNA test was done
I saw the footage of them taking the sample on the news for godsakes. Has no one ever seen or known someone who had a DNA test with a swab to the cheek?

As Bangin stated, esdad, the questions raised are regarding the source and veracity of the control sample, and the impartiality of the testing body. In this case, the U.S military.


2. HIs teeth??? The picture with the perfect teeth looks to be at least 10 or 12 years old. Alot can happen to someones teeth in that amount of time.

This is a photo released by the Defense Department to illustrate what Hussein might have looked like after disguise attempts. It is the most recent photo that the U.S. Denfense Department could find and definitely less than 10-12 years old. And no, such a drastic change in regularity of teeth and a change from overbite to gross underbite could not occur in that space of time.
Link



3. Dishevled???[...] hide out in the woods and don't brush you tetth, hair or shave for 3 or so months. See how you look.

Nobody cited this man's dishevelled appearance as proof that this is not Hussein.


4. I buy into hte fact that there were doubles previously, but I feel that this was for the prevention of assasination and more for personal protection. We have him, done deal I think....

Yes, he had many doubles. Looks like one fell into the government's hands and they decided to take advantage of it.



[edit on 2005/3/10 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Bangin

Originally posted by Seekerof
Why is no one commenting (besides mythatsabigprobe) on the DNA testing that was done on the captured Saddam?
His mention gets dismissed, why?!
Multiples of past ATS threads on this, linking those DNA testings, and yet they fail to appear in this topic thread.


Is it too much trouble for you to link to the DNA test results? Either way DNA test results mean diddly without a real, verifiable sample for comparison. And I don't consider a dirty razor provided from some woman as a sufficient sample of DNA.


Since wecomeinpeace is not willing to do the ATS search, sure, I'll do it.

Here is one main thread that discusses Saddma's DNA and names some sources:
Saddam Hussein arrested

And to bump it a notch, since again, wecomeinpeace did not bother to do a simple Google search:
DNA confirms the capture of Saddam

or this:
DNA + Saddam





seekerof



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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What is interesting is why the Pentagon would release official statements denying the claims when the claims have not been covered very widely.

There is more to it and to the power of internet-spread "rumors" than meets the eye.

I also remember the discussions about DNA test matches on the person presented as Saddam Hussein, and how nobody satisfactorily explained where the original samples for matching would have come from.




posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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as posted by MaskedAvatar
...and how nobody satisfactorily explained where the original samples for matching would have come from.


Yep, I remember those conversations well, MA: we were both involved in those discussions. But due to time constraints of going through each past ATS topic that discussed this matter, I was unable to locate those exact discussions, in regards to what you mention and I have quoted above.

A few of those links on both the Google links I provided do mention how the comparative samples (his sons come to mind) were obtained.


Sorry I cannot be like I normally am in providing link after link after link (you remember those days, eh)
, but I do believe that the Google links should or could suffice.




seekerof

[edit on 10-3-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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or this:
DNA + Saddam

What I would of wanted to see where the actual results, but I did find some interesting things from that google search.




Officials from the institute told The Scientist that the lab had already done a considerable amount of DNA work on operational cases in Iraq and therefore had real expertise in the identification of Saddam.

Meanwhile, speculation on the methodology and quality of the data is running rife.
 

David Goldstein of University College London also told The Scientist: “DNA evidence could easily be used without their having had a prior sample from Saddam Hussein himself. They may have had DNA samples of relatives; if nothing else, they presumably have DNA samples from his sons.”
 

“If properly motivated, they could turn such a test around in a single working day, so 24 hours poses no problem at all.”

As for the comparison sample, General Tommy Franks, chairman of the 25-nation US Central Command, said on CNN in April that “of course” the coalition had DNA samples from Saddam.

According to Hartshorne, the sources speculated about in the media—cigarette butts, razor blades, and cups from his former dwellings—would be sufficient.
www.biomedcentral.com...



This article was made before Saddam's capture, it was made when the sons were killed.

By some accounts, the CIA has a sample of Saddam's DNA, extracted from a razor blade or teacup that an estranged mistress supposedly purloined from a presidential palace.

"I wouldn't be too surprised if they don't have his DNA," Weedn said, citing the difficulty in confirming that such objects were used only by Saddam. If they were contaminated by other users, they would be useless for DNA testing.
web.naplesnews.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> web.naplesnews.com...



I don't see why wecomeinpeace is expected to find evidence that goes against his belief that it was the Saddam double captured.

As for me I haven't decided either way. I would really like to see the actual DNA finger print. I don't understand why that is not disclosed from the government. It poses no threat to security.



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