Utah cuts Healthcare costs by Flying Employees to Mexico for Prescriptions

a reply to: Boadicea

Not "may" have the right to life. I do have the right to life.

i wasn't saying that you might or might not have the right, i was pointing out that while it is the case that you have a right to life, you don't have the right to burden others with your healthcare if you can work for it yourself.

Life cannot be sustained unless health is nursed and nurtured, therefore, yes, life is dependent upon healthcare.

yeah i wasn't saying that wasn't the case, but again if you have a job and can pay for it why burden others?

My healthcare is my right, my privilege, AND my responsibility... and it's the government laws, regulations and guns that are preventing me from fulfilling that responsibility unless and until I jump through their very expensive hoops.

how is the government hindering you from healthcare? American healthcare is very loose on regulations outside of Medicare and Medicaid.

They shouldn't. And I specifically stated otherwise. That no one has to provide my healthcare. I simply stated that we have the absolute and inalienable natural right to provide our own healthcare -- with or without other CONSENTING adults.

More to the point, I am talking about the actual act of nurturing and nursing the body, whether with medications or otherwise. I'm not talking about how to pay for healthcare, much less talking about health insurance, which is both inefficient AND expensive for questionable value and worth.

Nor does anyone have a right to prosperity. We have the absolute inalienable natural right to provide for ourselves from the bounty of the earth. Money and credit and everything else comes from man -- not nature -- and therefore no one has a "right" to anything man-made. That kind of "right" is really only entitlements and privileges granted by government.

already addressed that point.

again.

life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is what rights are about so what are you saying, prosperity is indeed a right to all people and free market trade is the only realistic way to provide that equally. you make no sense saying that nonsense about nature, nature won't provide you healthcare.

They shouldn't... didn't think that, didn't say that. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite, that EVERYONE should be able to provide their own healthcare without interference. And, of course, take out all the rules and regs and middle men bleeding us dry, and healthcare costs will go down.

On the other hand, with a combination single-payer/private option system, removing the necessity of insurance -- note I said "necessity" and not "option" -- many other costs would likewise be reduced or eliminated. Just take a look at your auto insurance costs for bodily injury... those would be gone because medical costs would be already be covered. No more personal injury lawsuits for medical bills. No more unpaid emergency room visits (tacked onto everyone else's bills) for simple conditions that could be treated with a doctor's visit. How many other ways do we "pay" for healthcare that we never receive?

maybe if the rest of the world weren't being idiot's and using price controls to artificially lower medical costs, we wouldn't have jacked up prices to keep the global medical industry afloat by ourselves.

Nice story, Bro... but I didn't say that. I didn't think that. I'm actually demanding even greater personal responsibility and action by people for their own healthcare, which is currently restricted and/or outright denied by government guns.

Why don't you want people to be able to take care of themselves? Why do you want people to be dependent upon others for their quality and quantity of life? Why do you want to give others that power over you???

clearly you aren't reading anything i actually said if you seriously think i said that.

Exactly. But "freedom" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. You are contradicting yourself by invoking government controlled medicine and I am demanding that freedom to nurse, nurture and sustain my own life. You are insisting that I be dependent upon government and others to do that for me.

Why??? What do you have against freedom and personal rights, privileges and responsibilities???

either you're being desperate and changing what you said or you are leaving out what you're really trying to say for some reason..

try thinking without that cloudy lens getting in the way and you might realize how silly that last question you asked was.

Isn't it ironic that you can get illegal drugs that will kill you, cheaper and easier than you can get Pharmaceuticals that will save your life.

Capitalism in it's many forms. Living in a surreal world is so much fun!! Oh look....my watch is melting!!

originally posted by: olaru12
Isn't it ironic that you can get illegal drugs that will kill you, cheaper and easier than you can get Pharmaceuticals that will save your life.

Capitalism in it's many forms. Living in a surreal world is so much fun!! Oh look....my watch is melting!!

It is only ironic if you have zero knowledge of economics and markets....

Is the FDA approving Coke from Mexico? Do drug dealers have to do multi rounds of testing? Does your plug give you 10 paragraphs of legalese everytime you make a buy? Is the guy whipping up the dope in pyrex in the kitchen a Ph.D or a drop out? if you can't pay do they just write it off or break your knee caps?

If you don't see the difference then I don't know what to tell you....

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: namehere

Nope. I spent some time working in pharmacy. The fun thing about running an insurance claim is it shows you the material cost of the drug, the average price the drug costs pharmacies, and the amount the insurance pays.

Most drugs cost, at most, a few bucks to produce for a full course. The pharmacy pays 10 to 1000 times the material cost. And the insurance generally pays less back to the pharmacy than what it cost to purchase the drug for its hyperinflated price.

That's leaves a lot of profit on the table for Big Pharma and insurance companies.

All the cost is in the research and development. Once the formula is developed, it doesn't cost a lot to stamp some pills. It is similar to software. Once the software is written, producing copies is the easy part.

I asked some of you a simple question. Many drugs are for small populations. Typically called Orphan Drugs in the pharma industry. Say a rare disease that maybe only affects 10,000 people a year. It cost $1 billion in R&D to come up with formula / FDA approval.

How much should the company be allowed to charge?

Keep in $1,000,000,000 investment / 10,000 people = $100,000 per person.

We haven't even gotten into maybe 50% of that 10,000 lives in countries with "free healthcare" ...

So please, any budding progressive CFO's care to tell the class how much should be charged?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I would be smuggling in generic drugs instead of ones that turn your customers into deadbeat losers.

It wasn't that long ago that generiv Vicodin was the most prescribed drug in the US. So...

Honestly, I kind of want to start a non-profit pharmaceutical company. If a company could start offering basic drugs for pennies it would force Big Pharma to start making some major changes.

I'm sure investors will be lining up to fund that company...

If there are no profits, where will the money come from to do research / development? How will you pay the workers?

a reply to: Edumakated

One of the most prescribed drugs in the world is pravastatin. This was developed by a Japanese country. Why do we pay more for it than people in Japan?

The most prescribed drug in the world is lisinopril. This is a drug developed by a Swedish-British company. Why do we pay more for it than people in those countries?

Then we come to something like amoxicillin. No company existent today paid for its R&D. The cost to produce it is pennies for a full course. So why does it cost $5 for a 14 day supply even with insurance?

a reply to: namehere

how is the government hindering you from healthcare? American healthcare is very loose on regulations outside of Medicare and Medicaid.

It hurts my heart that you should even have to ask this... especially someone so keen on personal responsibility.

I will give one example: Marijuana. Our body's immune systems literally need cannabinoids to function. Marijuana is the best source for these cannabinoids. Government not only made marijuana criminal, they prohibited virtually ALL research on its health benefits -- despite evidence of its healing powers.

Among other things, there are medical studies going back to the '50s which prove cannabinoids kill MRSA and other antibiotic-resistant infections... the same infections that are killing people because Big Pharma's pills DON'T kill those infections... which is why they are called "antibiotic-resistant."

But even today, in those states where medical marijuana is legal, not one state has approved cannabis for MRSA or other antibiotic resistant infections. It is literally illegal for a doctor to prescribe it and/or for someone to use it to heal themselves of a life-threatening disease that Big Pharma cannot heal.

Let's take this a step further. Cannabis is literally a weed. Pretty much anyone can grow it anywhere. In temperate climates, two or even three crops a year can be grown and harvested. Anyone can make cannabis oil in their own kitchen with items they probably already have on hand or could easily obtain... coconut oil and lecithin, and a pyrex dish, mesh strainer and a spoon. And an oven. But it was -- and still is in many places -- criminal to do so.

How do I know all this? From personal experience.

And if I had depended on Big Pharma or the medical establishment at large to take care of me, we wouldn't be having this discussion because I'd be dead. Fortunately, high CBD oil is legal in all 50 states, and while not quite as effective as oils also containing THC, it was literally a lifesaver.

try thinking without that cloudy lens getting in the way and you might realize how silly that last question you asked was.

Excellent advice for yourself. Who is really advocating personal responsibility and freedom here???

This isn't just talk to me. I had to walk the walk. I took the ultimate personal responsibility for my own healthcare. In cooperation and coordination with other consenting adults. And while it seems to be under control at this point, there's no guarantee it will remain dormant. So I will remain vigilant, and personally responsible for my own healthcare.

a reply to: Boadicea

All hail Rick Simpson. He should receive a medal of honor for all the lives he's saved.

topic....

also, a crew of seniors hire a van monthly for a trip to the Juarez farmacia for their meds.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Boadicea

All hail Rick Simpson. He should receive a medal of honor for all the lives he's saved.

And the Nobel prize too!

Not just saving lives, but increasing the quality of life for so many. Especially children. Many parents took a big risk for themselves to give their children the medicine they needed. It is truly a crime against humanity to criminalize a blessed herb of the earth.

topic....

also, a crew of seniors hire a van monthly for a trip to the Juarez farmacia for their meds.

The same in Nogales -- or should I say the Nogaleses? Amazing what a few little old ladies can manage, eh?

I've heard of similar in Yuma for the dental industry across the border. If I could speak Spanish well enough, I would do it...

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Edumakated

But we're still paying way more for generics than the rest of the world. Why are we paying more for a Teva produced drug, a company that did not spend a billion dollars and years of R&D, than anywhere else in the world?

Why are insurance and pharmaceutical companies making ridiculous profit off of a drug that costs less than a penny to produce like amoxicillin?

Why are we paying significantly more for pravastatin than Japan, even though it is a drug developed in Japan?

Why should an insurance company make a decent profit when a specific drug is dispensed, but the pharmacy that dispenses it is in the hole for thousands of dollars?

We allow them to, others don't. I believe we should allow profit for the pharmeceutical corporations, but, we should allow pricing no higher than the average price worldwide for the drug, adjusted for exchange rates.

Doing so may bring our prices down, and prices in the rest of the world up. If they don't allow the drugs to be sold in those countries with such price adjustments, then it isn't a market they need to be in.

As it stands, US citizens are effectively paying a tax (through insurance and out of pocket costs) to subsidize medications and medical devices for the rest of the world.

So Bernie's been in office decades. In a position to write and pass legislation to fix all the things he's bitchin and moanin about.

But we have to elect him President to actually get the fixes? An office that doesn't write and put forward new laws.

Get a clue people.

FYI feel free to look up the 3 pieces of legislation he "wrote" that were passed. Two were to rename post offices. Guy is a huge waste of space sucking up govt money.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The profit motive is why they can develop so many miracle drugs.

What 'miracle drugs'?

Sorry, but the vast majority of 'drugs' produced by modern pharmaceutical companies are not 'miracles' - unless you mean wrt how much money they can make the pharmaceutical companies.

The last real 'miracle drug' I can remember was penicillin. What other(s) are you talking about?

Most drugs are recalled after their patents expire and the detrimental effects of taking them long term becomes well known. Many result in huge class action lawsuits, with the pharma companies paying pennies in compensation compared to the profits they made selling them all while knowing the damage they do.