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Things that won't happen;- The reincarnation of Christ

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posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse


I believe in Jesus the Messiah, but I am not sure if he is the actual son of god.


What exactly is your definition of Messiah then? That doesn't make much sense to me.


From his writings I feel he was a very good man filled to the brim with the Holy Spirit. I do not consider that meaning he was the only begotten son of god. There were angels too, they were the sons of god.


According to scripture, Jesus is the one who created the angels and everything physical in this world and the heavens before he incarnated into this world as a human himself.




posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse


I think that the Messiah spirit, the Holy spirit, will just fill a person so they become the Messiah. Jesus was not born a Messiah, he gained that in the Desert.


I'm not sure what you've been reading over the years, but the scriptures state that Jesus is the only human who was CONCEIVED by the Holy Spirit, making him the Messiah. While other humans are capable of being filled with the Holy Spirit, none of them were conceived by the Holy Spirit.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:01 AM
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a reply to: miri2019


Things are not as simple as they seem, there's a reason why jewish people have this strange concept of two sequential personas: Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. Just ponder this.


What exactly is there to ponder? One represents Jesus' original humble arrival into this world waiting to be accepted by the world by choice and the second represents Jesus' return as an authority and proof of his power over all of the world regardless of choice.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse

You want to touch the Holy Spirit?

That's what being saved is -- You forming a real connection to the Holy Spirit and keeping and tending that connection. Believe me. It doesn't matter that it's 2,000 years later or that you speak English now instead of Aramaic, God understands you, and you understand Him just fine.

You don't need to *see* someone other person walking around claiming to be Messiah to believe that such a connection happens. You do it for yourself and make your own relationship. Why try to experience it at a remove when you can experience it directly? Besides, as has been pointed out, if you will only accept it from someone who tells you he is what he is, you have no real way of knowing and are thus set up for a fall, possibly a very, very long one.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: rickymouse


I believe in Jesus the Messiah, but I am not sure if he is the actual son of god.


What exactly is your definition of Messiah then? That doesn't make much sense to me.


From his writings I feel he was a very good man filled to the brim with the Holy Spirit. I do not consider that meaning he was the only begotten son of god. There were angels too, they were the sons of god.


According to scripture, Jesus is the one who created the angels and everything physical in this world and the heavens before he incarnated into this world as a human himself.


That would be the archangel Michael who was involved in creating the angels. So, you are saying that Jesus was Micheal? Jesus does not say in his sayings in the bible that he is Michael. He says he is the son of man, that is how I read it. He says he is a son of god, but he also says that most people are the sons and daughters of god, because god is the creator of everything. Jesus also says that there is none good but god, because he told people to pray to god, not to him. I have not seen anywhere that he himself says to pray to him. He says he can guide people to god basically and people can use his teachings to guide them.

A messiah is not an angel, never was, never will be.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse
I am not aware of any scripture saying that Michael "created the angels".

What we do know about the connection of Christ with the act of creation is "All things were made through him [the Word], and without him was not anything made that was made" (John ch1 v3). This makes it logically impossible for the Word to belong to the category "things that were made", and therefore puts him on the "Creator" side of the boundary line between "Creator" and "Creation".


edit on 16-2-2020 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rickymouse
I am not aware of any scripture saying that Michael "created the angels".

What we do know about the connection of Christ with the act of creation is "All things were made through him [the Word], and without him was not anything made that was made" (John ch1 v3). This makes it logically impossible for the Word to belong to the category "things that were made", and therefore puts him on the "Creator" side of the boundary line between "Creator" and "Creation".



That phrase talks about god as the creator, not Jesus. The Holy Trinity is three, the real Sin/Shin symbol applies. Jesus never said he was part of the trinity from what I have read in two versions of the bible.

One god, noone is good but god.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse
No, the Word is grammatically the subject of every sentence in the first five verses.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rickymouse
No, the Word is grammatically the subject of every sentence in the first five verses.



But, god is the word.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse
We also know that the Word "became flesh and dwelt among us" (v14), which clearly identifies the Word with Jesus.

If the Word is Jesus, and you acknowledge that the Word is God, where does that leave us?



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rickymouse
We also know that the Word "became flesh and dwelt among us" (v14), which clearly identifies the Word with Jesus.

If the Word is Jesus, and you acknowledge that the Word is God, where does that leave us?




Don't focus on one thing too much compare phrases and meanings that Jesus said to other things Jesus said. The Bible is a great book and the philosophy of Jesus is really great, he was very wise. Interpreting the parables properly takes great studying and comparing, his words can be interpreted many ways. People are trying to make one phrase mean what they interpret it to mean, based on their personal beliefs, that is why every Christian group seems to interpret things differently. I have gone to many different kinds of churches and they all interpret and enphasize things differently. Jesus purposely talked in parables, he actually mentions that somewhere in the bible and why he did it. The wise with god will know what he means, being with god means that you look at things and evaluate them using the wisdom of god, not belief in a religion or church. Remember the god of Jesus was the god of the Jews, and Jesus interpreted gods writings different than the jewish church did. He was filled with the knowledge of god. The Jews did not get it right either because their pride and beliefs caused misinterpretation of what their book said. They had to keep going astray and got clobbered and had to suffer because they wanted things they did not need, displaying gold only attracts the theives and leads to your demise.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: miri2019

What exactly is there to ponder? One represents Jesus' original humble arrival into this world waiting to be accepted by the world by choice and the second represents Jesus' return as an authority and proof of his power over all of the world regardless of choice.


What's to ponder is that 1) according to jewish scholars, there are two different figures and 2) that they come immediately one after the other, one prepares the way for the other and not with millennia apart.

Note that I don't necessarily agree with the jewish viewpoint of two different messiahs. In fact there is only *one* person that comes in two *different sequential* times, but these times are close to each other and he comes in two different capacities in those times. Now the role of this person is that of a messenger and the next one is that of a savior. Remember that now this messenger will prepare the way for the Almighty God coming to judge the world.

Whoever wrote that line that "John the Baptist" is Elijah, is a liar and guilty of a big sin.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: miri2019
I think the notion that people have much trouble with, is "He'll be coming from the sky, riding on a cloud".

Now how about this - he comes on earth, lives life as a normal human up to a certain age and then when the time comes (Lord knows when), he'll be lifted up in the sky and finish his job?

So your version still ends up with "coming from the sky and riding on a cloud", so I don't see how it's an improvement for those who have trouble with that idea.


It's different, the details make or break it. He's not coming directly from his heavenly place to earth, everything will start and finish here on this planet, everything from scratch.



He's done all that already, the first time round. No doubt he still remembers it all. The body in which he experienced these things was raised from the dead, and it is presumably in THAT body that he appears "in the clouds".


While we disagree on who was the person that came here the first time (I'm not disputing the fact that it's been a first time), what I doubt is his remembrance of his previous life here, given the amount of time that it's passed.

Really we humans have no idea what it means for an angelic spirit to reincarnate as a human, the crisis that he/she goes through, that he/she has to get used to the human functions like eating, sex, bodily sanitation practices, just the basics, not even mentioning the tough human relationships, that's another whole ballgame.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: miri2019
That's assuming that the so called "New Testament" is really the word of the one true God.

This thread being an exercise in Biblical theology, that assumption is one of the preconditions. Just as the axioms of Euclid are taken for granted as preconditions of Euclidean geometry.



DISRAELI, I'm sad to see you're putting such preconditions in this thread. I think it should be open for every viewpoint, as long as we respect each-other and our views.

You've put a lot of effort in this thread and I respect your hard work and your knowledge of the Bible. I'm a God-loving God-fearing man and I'm not here to demean others' people hard work, I want all the best for the christians as well, but at the same time we need to talk about our differences and try to reconcile them. If not, at least let's be respectful of each-other views, knowing that the truth is somewhere in there hidden intentionally by the forces of darkness.




posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:04 PM
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originally posted by: miri2019
While we disagree on who was the person that came here the first time (I'm not disputing the fact that it's been a first time), what I doubt is his remembrance of his previous life here, given the amount of time that it's passed.

You are assuming the limitations of our current human bodies. The teaching of the New Testament is that the resurraction is is a transformation of the body into a different kind of body- "We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed" (1 Corinthians ch15 v51). This occurs for the rest of us when Christ returns, but he's been through that change already- "the first fruits". I'm not even sure that the concept of time is particularly relevant. He has "ascended to his Father", gone to a different state of existence.


Really we humans have no idea what it means for an angelic spirit to reincarnate as a human, the crisis that he/she goes through, that he/she has to get used to the human functions like eating, sex, bodily sanitation practices, just the basics, not even mentioning the tough human relationships, that's another whole ballgame.

This is not relevant either, because the whole point of the argument is that he is NOT "an angelic spirit reincarnating as a human". Apart from anything else, he does not reincarnate because he has not died since the original Resurrection on Easter day. He is still alive, in the body that he had when he was "appearing" to the disciples after the Resurrection.
And why would he need to relearn human life, when human life is not going to continue in its current form after he returns?
There is a clear New Testament sequence. The return of Christ is the signal for the general resurrection and the judgement, after which "we shall evermore be with the Lord" (something which is beyond our current ability to imagine).

All your assumptions and speculations are based on not being acquainted with what the New Testament is actually saying, so you come to conclusions which don't have any value in Biblical terms.


edit on 16-2-2020 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: miri2019
DISRAELI, I'm sad to see you're putting such preconditions in this thread. I think it should be open for every viewpoint, as long as we respect each-other and our views.

You're new here, aren't you? Those preconditions are there implicitly in all my threads in this sub-forum, because that is the point. They are exercises in Biblical theology, understanding what the Bible is saying. Would you go into a thread on car maintenance and start talking about the importance of pedestrian footwear? The non-Biblical viewpoint is off-topic.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
[...]

All your assumptions and speculations are based on not being acquainted with what the New Testament is actually saying, so you come to conclusions which don't have any value in Biblical terms.


Picking and choosing where to get your information doesn't work in the long run, but hey good luck in your endeavours!
edit on 16-2-2020 by miri2019 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: miri2019
I am following the rules of this particular field of study.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: miri2019
DISRAELI, I'm sad to see you're putting such preconditions in this thread. I think it should be open for every viewpoint, as long as we respect each-other and our views.

You're new here, aren't you? Those preconditions are there implicitly in all my threads in this sub-forum, because that is the point. They are exercises in Biblical theology, understanding what the Bible is saying. Would you go into a thread on car maintenance and start talking about the importance of pedestrian footwear? The non-Biblical viewpoint is off-topic.


I see ..., do you know for how long I've lurked this site ?!! Seniority in a website doesn't have anything to do with the level of the information that a member brings in. And as far as your "car maintenance-pedestrian footwear" analogy, that is your opinion nothing else. I bring my information wherever I feel I have something new to add.



posted on Feb, 16 2020 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse


That phrase talks about god as the creator, not Jesus. The Holy Trinity is three,


Considering you don't seem to understand the definition of "Messiah", it doesn't appear as though you understand the definition of the "Trinity" now either. The Trinity is made up of three which are Father/Son/Holy Spirit and they all are God.

1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

As Disraeli pointed out to you earlier, "Word" is Jesus and became flesh...

John 1:1-1-3, 10-11

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

John 1:14

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

For someone who claims to have read two versions of the Bible, how did you ever come up with Michael the Archangel as the Creator of the angels?


edit on 16-2-2020 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



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