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Phillipine leader terminates troop agreement with U.S.

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posted on Feb, 11 2020 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: chr0naut

Of course, it was all the Americans. There were no Filipinos, New Guineans, New Zealanders or Australians there at all (although, to be fair, the Aussie Army played almost no part at all).

Yes, it could have been a different outcome without the US, but there were significant other forces involved.

Also, do you think that the US forces that have practically occupied quite large bases in Indonesia, since the Pacific campaign, have been good to the Philipines?


I don't think New Zealand fought in the PI... just saying lol

Name a US base in Indonesia...


In 1941/2 there was an agreement between the RNZN and the US and some New Zealand Navy ships were considered part of the US 7th Fleet from 1943.

I'm sure I saw some details previously about NZ involvement in the liberation of the Phillippines but I went online to do a quick check and I can't find any reference, so I could be wrong.




posted on Feb, 11 2020 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It doesn't matter the reasons why. which I read in much the same way you do...mostly.

But the fact remains, if the duly elected, however corrupt, govt tells us to go. We pack up, and we go.

My point is that this will only escalate as Democrats keep up their attacks. They want to overturn the Philippine elections much like they are trying with Trump.



posted on Feb, 11 2020 @ 10:18 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

I'm sure I saw some details previously about NZ involvement in the liberation of the Phillippines but I went online to do a quick check and I can't find any reference, so I could be wrong.


Not slamming New Zealand involvement at all, they put 140,000 troops into WWII with a population of like 2 million at the time, so big support, but I think they were more involved in Northern Africa and southern Europe mostly which is actually weird as to their location.



posted on Feb, 11 2020 @ 10:21 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: [post=24937731]Gravelbone[/post

There would be No Nation of the Phillipines Today if it were not for Americans Laying Down their Lives in Order to Liberate them from the Japanese Imperial Army in 1945 . I am Sure the Phillipine People Know this Well , but it Seems their Politicians have Long Term Memory Loss . Lets see how Well they Defend their Islands from the Chinese when the time comes Without the Help of U.S. Armed Forces .................


Lets counter that. There would be no Japanese empire if Americans didn't side with Japan during Opium wars. Japan got their aircraft carrier tech from guess who? USA. The game is on China now. Oh please. Duterte is not a dumbass and Chinese will not do what Japan did to the Phillies because they just aren't that evil.
edit on 11-2-2020 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2020 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

All those listed are still active with US military staff present. While it is true that there was withdrawal in 1991, there was the Visiting Forces Agreement in 1999, and then the EDCA, signed in 2014, meaning that US military staff have a presence in the Philippines.

It also explains why it is a 'thing' that Duarte is ushering them away again.




US presence is southern PI... I have been apart of it. Many of the sites you listed were ransacked after the US left, so whatever presence is there is minimal, so those sites are no longer an American installation. The two biggest, Clark was gutted and is mostly abandoned and Subic was protected by the locals and is a international port now. I flew there from 1983 to 1999 and Mt Pinatubo eruption pretty much ended our prescience there as the PI wanted a huge amount of money for rent. Then the status forces agreement was non-existent since we were not there anymore. A VFA, which is different, was established many years later as part of the WOT. Canx the VFA in 2020 means very little as our presence is small now. The funny part is I had PI military in my training program a few months ago, so who knows what direction this will go.



posted on Feb, 11 2020 @ 10:44 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: chr0naut

I'm sure I saw some details previously about NZ involvement in the liberation of the Phillippines but I went online to do a quick check and I can't find any reference, so I could be wrong.


Not slamming New Zealand involvement at all, they put 140,000 troops into WWII with a population of like 2 million at the time, so big support, but I think they were more involved in Northern Africa and southern Europe mostly which is actually weird as to their location.


They did return to the Pacific to assist in the Allied response to Japan after their participation in the European theater.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 12:47 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Yes there were NZ ships in 7th Fleet, along with several Aussie ships.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 05:07 AM
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originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: [post=24937731]Gravelbone[/post

There would be No Nation of the Phillipines Today if it were not for Americans Laying Down their Lives in Order to Liberate them from the Japanese Imperial Army in 1945 . I am Sure the Phillipine People Know this Well , but it Seems their Politicians have Long Term Memory Loss . Lets see how Well they Defend their Islands from the Chinese when the time comes Without the Help of U.S. Armed Forces .................


Lets counter that. There would be no Japanese empire if Americans didn't side with Japan during Opium wars. Japan got their aircraft carrier tech from guess who? USA. The game is on China now. Oh please. Duterte is not a dumbass and Chinese will not do what Japan did to the Phillies because they just aren't that evil.

Currently China is actively stealing land and territorial waters from the Philippines. They are attacking Philippine fishing vessels in Philippine waters.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: Gravelbone

why should anybody want american squaddies in their country? cant think of once when its been about the other side and not about what the yanks can get from the agreement. I think trumpy face being in power gives a lot of countries legitimate reason for finally being able to say goodbye. if anybody questions it they can use him as a security threat (as he's seen by the rest of the world and 50% of americans) and distance themselves from his lunacy.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: gsxr34 I think trumpy face being in power gives a lot of countries legitimate reason to being able to say goodbye.

Trump is the only reason the Philippines has taken so long to say goodbye. If Democrats shut their mouth and let Trump do all the talking we would still have the agreement. So it's literally the opposite of what you claim. Democrats have destroyed one of our strongest Asian alliances because they want to overturn the Philippine election.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 08:06 AM
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If they want us gone we should leave.
Same with iraq.

Why isn't trump bringing our troops home from places they are not wanted?



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: [post=24937731]Gravelbone[/post

There would be No Nation of the Phillipines Today if it were not for Americans Laying Down their Lives in Order to Liberate them from the Japanese Imperial Army in 1945 . I am Sure the Phillipine People Know this Well , but it Seems their Politicians have Long Term Memory Loss . Lets see how Well they Defend their Islands from the Chinese when the time comes Without the Help of U.S. Armed Forces .................


Lets counter that. There would be no Japanese empire if Americans didn't side with Japan during Opium wars. Japan got their aircraft carrier tech from guess who? USA. The game is on China now. Oh please. Duterte is not a dumbass and Chinese will not do what Japan did to the Phillies because they just aren't that evil.


LOL

yes Duterte IS a dumbass, and quite likely a stoned one at that. and yes the Chinese are in fact that evil. in fact the Chinese have pretty much taken over the old Japanese empire way of empire building and resource stealing. not really all that much different at all between the pre and WW2 imperial Japanese and communist Chinese. other than the communist party takes the place of the Japanese emperor and the Japanese leaders from that time.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: gsxr34
a reply to: Gravelbone

why should anybody want american squaddies in their country? cant think of once when its been about the other side and not about what the yanks can get from the agreement. I think trumpy face being in power gives a lot of countries legitimate reason for finally being able to say goodbye. if anybody questions it they can use him as a security threat (as he's seen by the rest of the world and 50% of americans) and distance themselves from his lunacy.


actually it's not Trump. this is the result of the Obama legacy. which showed the US could not be trusted. the only thing the government under Trump has done is to rightfully bar entry to the US and freeze some assets of Duterte's criminal supporters in government.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: gsxr34
a reply to: Gravelbone

why should anybody want american squaddies in their country? cant think of once when its been about the other side and not about what the yanks can get from the agreement. I think trumpy face being in power gives a lot of countries legitimate reason for finally being able to say goodbye. if anybody questions it they can use him as a security threat (as he's seen by the rest of the world and 50% of americans) and distance themselves from his lunacy.


why would anyone want US forces? for things like helping supress terrorists as the US has been doing in the Philippines for years against both the Muslims and communist terrorist forces that are active in the country. as well as for helping fend off Chinese aggression. but thanks to Obama, the US has lost their trust in regards to the Chinese aggression because he refused to actually help them against the Chinese while he was in power. and while Trump has been working to reverse that how can you build trust when there is genuine concern about the democrats gaining the office of President again which would have the same results. they have even seen the coup attempt from the democrats recently as another worrying aspect for the democrats gaining power by any means necessary, and what that would mean if the US is too heavily relied on for help.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Just because allied forces drove the Japanese out doesn't mean we can occupy their nation into perpetuity. After all, we did take control of the Philippines from the Spanish and did kill thousands of Philippines to retain control of that island nation. What do you think Douglas MacArthur was doing there? He was the military magistrate there at the outset of WW2.


the US is by no means occupying the country. in fact the only thing that even comes close to a military base, is the US embassy.


Except for:

Clark Air Force Base
Crow Valley Range Complex
John Hay Air Station
U.S. Naval Radio Facility Bagobantay
Mount Santa Rita Naval Link Station
Naval Air Station Cubi Point
U.S. Naval Hospital, Subic Bay
Naval Station Sangley Point
Naval Station San Miguel
U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay
U.S. Naval Radio Station, Tarlac
Bayug Airfield
Cesar Basa Air Base
Daniel Z. Romualdez Airport
Dolores Airport
Dulag Airfield
Guiuan Airfield
Laoag International Airport
Lingayen Airport
Mangaldan Airfield
Porac Airfield
San Jose Airport (Mindoro)
San Marcelino Airfield
Sanga-Sanga Airport
Tanauan Airfield
Zamboanga International Airport
Cavite Navy Yard
Fort Hughes
San Miguel Naval Communications Station


nice try. none of these are currant US military installations or bases, and have not been since the early 1990's at the latest. in fact most of your list were no longer US military installations or bases since right after ww2 ended. in fact only ONE of them has any US military presence at all. and that is more like borrowing a place to stay. so this entire list definitely does not at all support the US "occupying" the country. but nice try at using the ignorance most people have of such local things to support your idea of the US occupying the Philippines.

lets see. Clark air force base is now a public international airport. Clark international airport. as well as being a "freeport zone"

Crow Valley Range Complex, is now Colonel Ernesto Ravina Air Base. a Philippine air base. and is also known by many as Tarlac Military Testing Ground.

John Hay Air Station is now a tourist attraction and leisure area.

U.S. Naval Radio Facility Bagobantay, closed way back in 1962

Mount Santa Rita Naval Link Station closed, but don 't know what has become of the site

Naval Air Station Cubi Point is now the Subic Bay International Airport

U.S. Naval Hospital, Subic Bay closed in 1992

Naval Station Sangley Point, The naval station was turned over to the Philippine government in 1971. It is now operated by the Philippine Air Force and Philippine Navy.

Naval Station San Miguel, was turned over to the Philippine government in 1992. It is now the home of the Philippine Navy's Naval Education and Training Command.

U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay, is now the Subic Bay freeport zone.

U.S. Naval Radio Station, Tarlac, closed in 1989. is now a civilian residential area. And, on December 7, 1991, a portion of the southern section of the base was established as the Capas National Shrine, by Philippine President Corazon Aquino

Bayug Airfield, closed after WW2, over 70 years ago. and has been let go back to the wild since that time

Cesar Basa Air Base turned over to the Philippine government in 1947. although Since 2016, the USAF again makes partial use of the base with an unknown number of American personnel being stationed there. This measure was agreed as part of the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA)

Daniel Z. Romualdez Airport, is now Tacloban City Airport. being converted to a commercial airport after WW2

Dolores Airport abandoned sometime after ww2

Dulag Airfield, abandoned after ww2 and today it is an agricultural area

Guiuan Airfield, turned over to the Philippine government after ww2. currently only one of the runways is left. with plans to turn it into a commercial and tourism place (like a resort area).

Laoag International Airport, turned into a civilian airport after ww2. which should have been obvious with it called an international airport. and when it was a military airfield it was named Gabu Airfield

Lingayen Airport, after ww2 the runways were shortened and it became a small regional airport

Mangaldan Airfield, abandoned after ww2

Porac Airfield abandoned after ww2. now part of a town, with the runway being a road.

San Jose Airport (Mindoro), abandoned after ww2. when as a military airport it was called McGuire Field. now a domestic airport

San Marcelino Airfield, yet again closed after ww2

Sanga-Sanga Airport, was this even an airbase in ww2? i find no mention of wartime service. just that it is a domestic airport.

Tanauan Airfield, abandoned after ww2. almost no trace of it left

Zamboanga International Airport, otherwise known as Moret Field, after it was converted into a US airfield by the commonwealth from a poor Japanese airfield in ww2. not sure when converted to civilian use. but not long after ww2 seems likely

Cavite Navy Yard, now known as Naval Station Pascual Ledesma, after being given to the Philippines in 1971.

Fort Hughes, seriously? i was going to comment on you not naming Corregidor as a "US military base" in this list (which was pretty much abandoned after ww2. and is now a preserved military battle site. one i have been to many times). but then i saw Fort Hughes, which really was a part of the Corregidor fortress system. just on a smaller island close by. which was turned over to the Philippine government in 1946. and since 2012 serves as a Philippine Navy ammunition depot.[

San Miguel Naval Communications Station, which would be part of Naval Station San Miguel. which was turned over to the Philippine government in 1992.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Just because allied forces drove the Japanese out doesn't mean we can occupy their nation into perpetuity. After all, we did take control of the Philippines from the Spanish and did kill thousands of Philippines to retain control of that island nation. What do you think Douglas MacArthur was doing there? He was the military magistrate there at the outset of WW2.


the US is by no means occupying the country. in fact the only thing that even comes close to a military base, is the US embassy.


Except for:

Clark Air Force Base
Crow Valley Range Complex
John Hay Air Station
U.S. Naval Radio Facility Bagobantay
Mount Santa Rita Naval Link Station
Naval Air Station Cubi Point
U.S. Naval Hospital, Subic Bay
Naval Station Sangley Point
Naval Station San Miguel
U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay
U.S. Naval Radio Station, Tarlac
Bayug Airfield
Cesar Basa Air Base
Daniel Z. Romualdez Airport
Dolores Airport
Dulag Airfield
Guiuan Airfield
Laoag International Airport
Lingayen Airport
Mangaldan Airfield
Porac Airfield
San Jose Airport (Mindoro)
San Marcelino Airfield
Sanga-Sanga Airport
Tanauan Airfield
Zamboanga International Airport
Cavite Navy Yard
Fort Hughes
San Miguel Naval Communications Station


nice try. none of these are currant US military installations or bases, and have not been since the early 1990's at the latest. in fact most of your list were no longer US military installations or bases since right after ww2 ended. in fact only ONE of them has any US military presence at all. and that is more like borrowing a place to stay. so this entire list definitely does not at all support the US "occupying" the country. but nice try at using the ignorance most people have of such local things to support your idea of the US occupying the Philippines.

lets see. Clark air force base is now a public international airport. Clark international airport. as well as being a "freeport zone"

Crow Valley Range Complex, is now Colonel Ernesto Ravina Air Base. a Philippine air base. and is also known by many as Tarlac Military Testing Ground.

John Hay Air Station is now a tourist attraction and leisure area.

U.S. Naval Radio Facility Bagobantay, closed way back in 1962

Mount Santa Rita Naval Link Station closed, but don 't know what has become of the site

Naval Air Station Cubi Point is now the Subic Bay International Airport

U.S. Naval Hospital, Subic Bay closed in 1992

Naval Station Sangley Point, The naval station was turned over to the Philippine government in 1971. It is now operated by the Philippine Air Force and Philippine Navy.

Naval Station San Miguel, was turned over to the Philippine government in 1992. It is now the home of the Philippine Navy's Naval Education and Training Command.

U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay, is now the Subic Bay freeport zone.

U.S. Naval Radio Station, Tarlac, closed in 1989. is now a civilian residential area. And, on December 7, 1991, a portion of the southern section of the base was established as the Capas National Shrine, by Philippine President Corazon Aquino

Bayug Airfield, closed after WW2, over 70 years ago. and has been let go back to the wild since that time

Cesar Basa Air Base turned over to the Philippine government in 1947. although Since 2016, the USAF again makes partial use of the base with an unknown number of American personnel being stationed there. This measure was agreed as part of the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA)

Daniel Z. Romualdez Airport, is now Tacloban City Airport. being converted to a commercial airport after WW2

Dolores Airport abandoned sometime after ww2

Dulag Airfield, abandoned after ww2 and today it is an agricultural area

Guiuan Airfield, turned over to the Philippine government after ww2. currently only one of the runways is left. with plans to turn it into a commercial and tourism place (like a resort area).

Laoag International Airport, turned into a civilian airport after ww2. which should have been obvious with it called an international airport. and when it was a military airfield it was named Gabu Airfield

Lingayen Airport, after ww2 the runways were shortened and it became a small regional airport

Mangaldan Airfield, abandoned after ww2

Porac Airfield abandoned after ww2. now part of a town, with the runway being a road.

San Jose Airport (Mindoro), abandoned after ww2. when as a military airport it was called McGuire Field. now a domestic airport

San Marcelino Airfield, yet again closed after ww2

Sanga-Sanga Airport, was this even an airbase in ww2? i find no mention of wartime service. just that it is a domestic airport.

Tanauan Airfield, abandoned after ww2. almost no trace of it left

Zamboanga International Airport, otherwise known as Moret Field, after it was converted into a US airfield by the commonwealth from a poor Japanese airfield in ww2. not sure when converted to civilian use. but not long after ww2 seems likely

Cavite Navy Yard, now known as Naval Station Pascual Ledesma, after being given to the Philippines in 1971.

Fort Hughes, seriously? i was going to comment on you not naming Corregidor as a "US military base" in this list (which was pretty much abandoned after ww2. and is now a preserved military battle site. one i have been to many times). but then i saw Fort Hughes, which really was a part of the Corregidor fortress system. just on a smaller island close by. which was turned over to the Philippine government in 1946. and since 2012 serves as a Philippine Navy ammunition depot.[

San Miguel Naval Communications Station, which would be part of Naval Station San Miguel. which was turned over to the Philippine government in 1992.


You fail to realize that what I was referring to was 40 years of foreign military presence feels like to the locals.

I'm an Aussie, originally from Sydney, and most of the naval ships in Sydney harbor, for most of my life, were American. And you can't hide them, they are big. They stand out. I also worked for an aircraft company involved with defense. There were always a lot of American 'planes, most of which flew in and out via Indonesia.

And I now live in New Zealand, which went anti-nuclear in a big way, with protests and government involvement. Yet I still remember the USS Texas sailing in despite massive protest.

Protest as USS Texas visits Auckland - New Zealand History

And in defiance of the governmental ban: Secrecy surrounds US ship headed for NZ - Radio New Zealand News. Again, it was met with much protest, but sailed on in to harbor, regardless. It's like the US saying "what could you do about it, anyway?"

The US has been repeatedly trampling all over the sovereignty of other nations, hasn't it? Do you think it would, perhaps, build up a little resentment in the peoples of those nations?



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: Gravelbone
"Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has given formal notice to the United States of his decision to scrap a bilateral Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA), officials said on Tuesday, following through on repeated threat to downgrade the defense alliance."


So it seems Xi finally pulled the right string or paid the right price. Either way, Duterte made it clear we aren't very welcome there as a military.
Wonder what merit can be cited from this action?
I think it's bad idea for both us and them, but much worse for them.
Thoughts?

Source: www.reuters.com...





It's kind of like marrying someone with whom you are deeply in love...and then they start beating you. Things change and when they change like they are now, previous relationships are left in tatters.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Just because allied forces drove the Japanese out doesn't mean we can occupy their nation into perpetuity. After all, we did take control of the Philippines from the Spanish and did kill thousands of Philippines to retain control of that island nation. What do you think Douglas MacArthur was doing there? He was the military magistrate there at the outset of WW2.






You fail to realize that what I was referring to was 40 years of foreign military presence feels like to the locals.
I'm an Aussie, originally from Sydney, and most of the naval ships in Sydney harbor, for most of my life, were American. And you can't hide them, they are big. They stand out. I also worked for an aircraft company involved with defense. There were always a lot of American 'planes, most of which flew in and out via Indonesia.
And I now live in New Zealand, which went anti-nuclear in a big way, with protests and government involvement. Yet I still remember the USS Texas sailing in despite massive protest.
And in defiance of the governmental ban: Secrecy surrounds US ship headed for NZ - Radio New Zealand News. Again, it was met with much protest, but sailed on in to harbor, regardless. It's like the US saying "what could you do about it, anyway?"
The US has been repeatedly trampling all over the sovereignty of other nations, hasn't it? Do you think it would, perhaps, build up a little resentment in the peoples of those nations?


while you apparently fail to realize that they US has not had much of a military presence for in the Philippines for about 30 years. and the fact is that until the Japanese took over in ww2, the US was actually in the Process of giving the Philippines their independence. but the war and goings on changed all that. i know the people were a bit upset that that process didn't immediately continue after the war. but that was actually a good thing. we have all seen the results of countries gaining their independence before they are ready and really able to deal with it. just take a look at Africa.

heck the Philippines has had enough problems recovering from a dictatorship that ended in the mid 80's. the corruption from then was just starting to get cleaned up. things like that unfortunately do take a long time, and we are talking about over 30 years to recover. the same was true after the Japanese since they tended to kill off those that were opposed to them, leaving it to their lackies to run things. the big problem being you just can't totally clean house of those people, especially in the bureaucracy of government out and place people with no clue in their places. even in Nazi Germany they couldn't just get rid of everyone who had been in place under the Nazi regime. since to do so would be to just create chaos. you can only get rid of the worst of them, keeping much of them in place. and then just like now it actually takes a couple generations to weed most of that type of corruption out. and the Philippines had actually been doing a decent job of doing so, until Duterte was elected and started going backwards. one of the reasons he was elected, since many of those who prospered under said dictatorship want to regain what they had.

and lets be honest about things. the US has not been trampling the sovereignty of other nations. it has been a tug of war of influence between the Americans and communists like China and Russia. and most Filipinos while they didn't really like the Americans in charge (and given their history of hundreds of years of Spanish rule, and the Japanese occupation, who can blame t hem), they are still grateful for the protection that granted them from things like communism. so why is it people are always whining about how America is and has been trampling country's sovereignty. but pretty much no mention of the opposing sides?



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Just because allied forces drove the Japanese out doesn't mean we can occupy their nation into perpetuity. After all, we did take control of the Philippines from the Spanish and did kill thousands of Philippines to retain control of that island nation. What do you think Douglas MacArthur was doing there? He was the military magistrate there at the outset of WW2.






You fail to realize that what I was referring to was 40 years of foreign military presence feels like to the locals.
I'm an Aussie, originally from Sydney, and most of the naval ships in Sydney harbor, for most of my life, were American. And you can't hide them, they are big. They stand out. I also worked for an aircraft company involved with defense. There were always a lot of American 'planes, most of which flew in and out via Indonesia.
And I now live in New Zealand, which went anti-nuclear in a big way, with protests and government involvement. Yet I still remember the USS Texas sailing in despite massive protest.
And in defiance of the governmental ban: Secrecy surrounds US ship headed for NZ - Radio New Zealand News. Again, it was met with much protest, but sailed on in to harbor, regardless. It's like the US saying "what could you do about it, anyway?"
The US has been repeatedly trampling all over the sovereignty of other nations, hasn't it? Do you think it would, perhaps, build up a little resentment in the peoples of those nations?


while you apparently fail to realize that they US has not had much of a military presence for in the Philippines for about 30 years. and the fact is that until the Japanese took over in ww2, the US was actually in the Process of giving the Philippines their independence. but the war and goings on changed all that. i know the people were a bit upset that that process didn't immediately continue after the war. but that was actually a good thing. we have all seen the results of countries gaining their independence before they are ready and really able to deal with it. just take a look at Africa.

heck the Philippines has had enough problems recovering from a dictatorship that ended in the mid 80's. the corruption from then was just starting to get cleaned up. things like that unfortunately do take a long time, and we are talking about over 30 years to recover. the same was true after the Japanese since they tended to kill off those that were opposed to them, leaving it to their lackies to run things. the big problem being you just can't totally clean house of those people, especially in the bureaucracy of government out and place people with no clue in their places. even in Nazi Germany they couldn't just get rid of everyone who had been in place under the Nazi regime. since to do so would be to just create chaos. you can only get rid of the worst of them, keeping much of them in place. and then just like now it actually takes a couple generations to weed most of that type of corruption out. and the Philippines had actually been doing a decent job of doing so, until Duterte was elected and started going backwards. one of the reasons he was elected, since many of those who prospered under said dictatorship want to regain what they had.

and lets be honest about things. the US has not been trampling the sovereignty of other nations. it has been a tug of war of influence between the Americans and communists like China and Russia. and most Filipinos while they didn't really like the Americans in charge (and given their history of hundreds of years of Spanish rule, and the Japanese occupation, who can blame t hem), they are still grateful for the protection that granted them from things like communism. so why is it people are always whining about how America is and has been trampling country's sovereignty. but pretty much no mention of the opposing sides?


This was a number 1 song in the Australian charts for six weeks back in the 80's:
"Hercules" - Midnight Oil

My life is a valuable thing
I wan't to keep it that way, I won't cry
My life's such a valuable thing
Some things don't fade away, I don't mind
We give the best we can give
We won't forget, we can't forgive
Keep us radioactive free
Strike a bell in Hiroshima park
You know that we can't see in the dark
We try and we try and we try...

Who waits for the planes to come
When everybody's got you on the run
South Pacific carry on

It seems to me that what we're saying
Nobody really wants to talk about it
This is no time to be wondering why
I do the best I can do
The human jungle and the global zoo
I'll find my way it's a very special way

Why wait for the planes to come
When everybody's got us on the run
South Pacific carry on
Here come the hercules
Here come the submarines
Sinking south pacific dreams


Perhaps, from the lyrics, you might pick up a slight bit of inference that very many people in many countries are not happy at all about US militarism in our backyards.



posted on Feb, 12 2020 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: generik

while you apparently fail to realize that they US has not had much of a military presence for in the Philippines for about 30 years.


Then who is Duerte kicking out, right now?


and the fact is that until the Japanese took over in ww2, the US was actually in the Process of giving the Philippines their independence. but the war and goings on changed all that. i know the people were a bit upset that that process didn't immediately continue after the war. but that was actually a good thing. we have all seen the results of countries gaining their independence before they are ready and really able to deal with it. just take a look at Africa.

heck the Philippines has had enough problems recovering from a dictatorship that ended in the mid 80's. the corruption from then was just starting to get cleaned up. things like that unfortunately do take a long time, and we are talking about over 30 years to recover. the same was true after the Japanese since they tended to kill off those that were opposed to them, leaving it to their lackies to run things. the big problem being you just can't totally clean house of those people, especially in the bureaucracy of government out and place people with no clue in their places. even in Nazi Germany they couldn't just get rid of everyone who had been in place under the Nazi regime. since to do so would be to just create chaos. you can only get rid of the worst of them, keeping much of them in place. and then just like now it actually takes a couple generations to weed most of that type of corruption out. and the Philippines had actually been doing a decent job of doing so, until Duterte was elected and started going backwards. one of the reasons he was elected, since many of those who prospered under said dictatorship want to regain what they had.

and lets be honest about things. the US has not been trampling the sovereignty of other nations.


What?

When the U.S. Doesn't Respect Other Countries' Sovereignty - The Atlantic

I suppose that when they killed Solemaini it was on American territory? Face it, the US doesn't give a crap about the sovereignty of other countries or their political processes.


it has been a tug of war of influence between the Americans and communists like China and Russia. and most Filipinos while they didn't really like the Americans in charge (and given their history of hundreds of years of Spanish rule, and the Japanese occupation, who can blame them), they are still grateful for the protection that granted them from things like communism. so why is it people are always whining about how America is and has been trampling country's sovereignty. but pretty much no mention of the opposing sides?


The US and Russia have both been massively expansionist. China far less so.

Remember recently, when the US press was complaining about China building 'islands' in the South China Sea?

The South what Sea?

And who were the ones complaining? US Naval forces.

What right do the US forces have to be 'policing' the South China Sea?

Get a clue. America aren't the good guys who save everyone from the enemies of America.

Famines, and mass refugee migrations, and terrorism, and wars, happen in lots of places where the US doesn't lift a finger, but make a claim to strategic territory, or block their oil or other resources, and they'll send in the troops to "police the situation" and all "for the good of" the countries that they start shooting up.

edit on 12/2/2020 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)




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