Mayor Pete Wants To Decriminalize Heroin And Meth.

originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

Lock them up for stealing?

Yes. Stealing is a crime against another person.

We shouldn't, however, lock someone up just fo being in possession of a substance or addicted to that substance.
Addiction is a horrible thing; I know people who've struggled with it. Now they're clean and sober and hard-working, contributing members of society. They got the help they needed, and it wasn't behind bars.

Yes stealing is a crime. But their reason for stealing is because of their addiction. So you see the conundrum. Hence my line of questioning.

I understand the conundrum, and addiction/theft frequently go hand in hand, but they have to be separated where the law is concerned.
The alcoholic is addicted to alcohol, but if he/she gets popped for drunk driving and or/manslaughter, they're punished for those crimes, not for being an addict.

Indeed.

I imagine we'll eventually see pleas and reduced sentences for such crimes, similar to insanity and crimes of passion.

a reply to: Trueman

Focus-group Pete is a moron, although I do agree the current system isn't working (like all prohibition, it merely spawns more crime)

1)Mandatory detox in an isolated room for users
2)Mandatory death penalty for all dealers/traffickers

Problem solved.

Putting users in prison doesn't work simply because prisons are a cesspool of drugs and contraband, this I do agree with.

I'm is drug gangs we should be declaring war against (with bombs, tanks and jets) that are smuggling it across our unsecure Southern border (95%+)

God damn drug users!

I NEED A DRINK!

That'll numb me enough to deal with the drug taking idiots and their supporters in the world.......

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Trueman

Focus-group Pete is a moron, although I do agree the current system isn't working (like all prohibition, it merely spawns more crime)

1)Mandatory detox in an isolated room for users
2)Mandatory death penalty for all dealers/traffickers

Problem solved.

Putting users in prison doesn't work simply because prisons are a cesspool of drugs and contraband, this I do agree with.

I'm is drug gangs we should be declaring war against (with bombs, tanks and jets) that are smuggling it across our unsecure Southern border (95%+)

If the drugs were decriminalised it would greatly reduce the illegal immigrant issue at the border.

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
God damn drug users!

I NEED A DRINK!

That'll numb me enough to deal with the drug taking idiots and their supporters in the world.......

If that's not enough have a cigarette with a xanax chaser.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: sine.nomine
I don't understand why this is so confusing. Drug addicts have a problem. They need help and attention. Throwing them to the side and thinking less of them empowers their addictions.

May as well throw out people with mental disabilities....

It isn't confusing at all for anyone who understands the basic concept of personal responsibility.

Drug addicts made a choice.

A bad one.

Treating it like a societal problem just makes it worse because then they don't have to accept personal responsibility.

People with mental disabilities did not make that choice.

Is that too hard to understand?

?

Have you ever picked up any sort of substance with addictive potential?

If so you have made the same damn choice as myself and other addicts, recovering or otherwise......

Maybe your just fortunate enough not to have the disease......or the mental trauma that leads to a desperate need to cope....

I don't think you understand how much an EpiPen costs the taxpayers. Junkies shoot up, od, the paramedics come and revive them with an EpiPen just so they can do it wll over again. Then they go and throw their needles all over the place.

EpiPen?

Surely you mean Narcan.......

I disagree somewhat. The addicts deserve to get their asses kicked for being stupid enough to take the drug in the first place.

We should have our asses kicked for being stupid enough to pick up??

I became an addict at age 14 with my first beer.....

The reason is because I had a traumatic upbringing which created a deep and severe anxiety disorder.....

That first beer helped me cope with trauma and crippling anxiety......

At that point something switched in my brain and I have been struggling with the disease ever since. Even when I'm clean it is still there.....

But I'm just an idiot who should have my ass kicked some more.....

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Trueman

Focus-group Pete is a moron, although I do agree the current system isn't working (like all prohibition, it merely spawns more crime)

1)Mandatory detox in an isolated room for users
2)Mandatory death penalty for all dealers/traffickers

Problem solved.

Putting users in prison doesn't work simply because prisons are a cesspool of drugs and contraband, this I do agree with.

I'm is drug gangs we should be declaring war against (with bombs, tanks and jets) that are smuggling it across our unsecure Southern border (95%+)

If the drugs were decriminalised it would greatly reduce the illegal immigrant issue at the border.

You hope.

Side note: We're talking decriminalization while simultaneously acknowledging a heroin epidemic..

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Trueman

Focus-group Pete is a moron, although I do agree the current system isn't working (like all prohibition, it merely spawns more crime)

1)Mandatory detox in an isolated room for users
2)Mandatory death penalty for all dealers/traffickers

Problem solved.

Putting users in prison doesn't work simply because prisons are a cesspool of drugs and contraband, this I do agree with.

I'm is drug gangs we should be declaring war against (with bombs, tanks and jets) that are smuggling it across our unsecure Southern border (95%+)

If the drugs were decriminalised it would greatly reduce the illegal immigrant issue at the border.

You hope.

Side note: We're talking decriminalization while simultaneously acknowledging a heroin epidemic..

An epidemic mainly caused by doctors over prescribing opiates.

Every choice you or I make has consequences. Sometimes, there is no going back from those choices and the consequences will end up defining us for the rest of our lives.

I have no problem with people making their own choices. Where I have the issue is when they don't want to accept the downstream consequences of those choices but would rather the rest of society pick up the pieces for them.

What law does is acknowledge the severe consequences of the some of the choices people can make, not only for themselves but also for others. Some here have as much as admitted that it only took one time with a substance for them to be addicted. That one choice had profound consequences for them and everyone around them in their lives.

The question is how society is supposed to deal with that. That choice doesn't just impact you if you make it. It does impact everyone around you: your family (immediate and nuclear and extended), your friends, your job, etc.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Trueman

Focus-group Pete is a moron, although I do agree the current system isn't working (like all prohibition, it merely spawns more crime)

1)Mandatory detox in an isolated room for users
2)Mandatory death penalty for all dealers/traffickers

Problem solved.

Putting users in prison doesn't work simply because prisons are a cesspool of drugs and contraband, this I do agree with.

I'm is drug gangs we should be declaring war against (with bombs, tanks and jets) that are smuggling it across our unsecure Southern border (95%+)

If the drugs were decriminalised it would greatly reduce the illegal immigrant issue at the border.

You hope.

Side note: We're talking decriminalization while simultaneously acknowledging a heroin epidemic..

An epidemic mainly caused by doctors over prescribing opiates.

Which peaked in 2012, and has been trending downward since.

Drug Diversion is the name of the game here.

Of course he does. Those arrests remove Democrats from the (legal) voting pool.

originally posted by: Trueman
Rather vote for El Chapo. We can do next Woodstock Festival in the WH too. What a joke are these democrats. I not even know what to say.

WALLACE: Mayor, you not only want to decriminalize marijuana, you want to decriminalize all drug possession. You say that the better answer isn't (ph) incarceration -- I mean, rather treatment, not incarceration.

BUTTIGIEG: That's right.

WALLACE: -- but isn't the fact that it's illegal to have -- to possess meth and heroin, doesn't that at least in some way, the fact that's illegal, act as a -- some deterrent to actually trying it in the first place?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think the main thing we need to focus on is where you have distribution and the -- the kind of harm that's done there. Well, yes, of course, it's important that it remain illegal but --

WALLACE: But you would decriminalize it, so it wouldn't be illegal?

BUTTIGIEG: Possession should not be that dealt through incarceration and - -

WALLACE: But you would say that possession heroin is not illegal?

BUTTIGIEG: It's not going to be dealt with through incarcerations.

WALLACE: But your -- your website says decriminalize. It would not be illegal?

BUTTIGIEG: Yes. Or it could be a misdemeanor.

www.foxnews.com...
twitter.com... e-confirms-dems-are-soft-on-crime-wants-to-decriminalize-heroin-and-meth%2F

If laws against possession worked people wouldn't possess it. It should be decriminalized to possess, take a page out of the rest of the worlds play book. We're the only country on earth that has a "war on drugs" and it's to make a profit by using prisoners for free labor.

Arresting users doesn't stop distribution or stop people from using, prohibition doesn't work, hasn't worked, will never work. We not only have precedent in this country, but we have precedent world wide too. Incarcerating people and ruining their lives doesn't change peoples behavior, it only reinforces it because now that they have that record they are black balled for life.

I'm not a democrat either, I'm a republican, but I know stupid when I see it.

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: sine.nomine
I don't understand why this is so confusing. Drug addicts have a problem. They need help and attention. Throwing them to the side and thinking less of them empowers their addictions.

May as well throw out people with mental disabilities....

It isn't confusing at all for anyone who understands the basic concept of personal responsibility.

Drug addicts made a choice.

A bad one.

Treating it like a societal problem just makes it worse because then they don't have to accept personal responsibility.

People with mental disabilities did not make that choice.

Is that too hard to understand?

?

Have you ever picked up any sort of substance with addictive potential?

If so you have made the same damn choice as myself and other addicts, recovering or otherwise......

Maybe your just fortunate enough not to have the disease......or the mental trauma that leads to a desperate need to cope....

This is a self control issue; you don't possess it, many people who have used do. I've done almost every designer drug with the exception of intravenous drugs and never got "addicted" to anything; I used them, experienced it, moved on. It's called choice, and you can make it. The problem is calling it a "disease" so people like you create excuses for being an addict.

My brother struggled with heroin for 15 years, he had the narcan shot 4 times right in the heart, he grew up and has been clean for 10 years. One morning he woke up and said I'm done, and that's all it takes.

a reply to: SRPrime
Actually progress has been made in identifying neural circuits that reinforce certain behaviors, so it isn't just a self control issue.

DRUGS OF ABUSE: IDENTIFYING THE ADDICTION CIRCUIT

Not just drugs either.

Decoding Neural Circuits that Control Compulsive Sucrose Seeking

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: sine.nomine
I don't understand why this is so confusing. Drug addicts have a problem. They need help and attention. Throwing them to the side and thinking less of them empowers their addictions.

May as well throw out people with mental disabilities....

It isn't confusing at all for anyone who understands the basic concept of personal responsibility.

Drug addicts made a choice.

A bad one.

Treating it like a societal problem just makes it worse because then they don't have to accept personal responsibility.

People with mental disabilities did not make that choice.

Is that too hard to understand?

?

Have you ever picked up any sort of substance with addictive potential?

If so you have made the same damn choice as myself and other addicts, recovering or otherwise......

Maybe your just fortunate enough not to have the disease......or the mental trauma that leads to a desperate need to cope....

This is a self control issue; you don't possess it, many people who have used do. I've done almost every designer drug with the exception of intravenous drugs and never got "addicted" to anything; I used them, experienced it, moved on. It's called choice, and you can make it. The problem is calling it a "disease" so people like you create excuses for being an addict.

My brother struggled with heroin for 15 years, he had the narcan shot 4 times right in the heart, he grew up and has been clean for 10 years. One morning he woke up and said I'm done, and that's all it takes.

One morning he just woke up and quit a 15 y/o heroin habit huh? It wasn't that easy unless he switched to bupenorphine.....

You're saying he just said "no"...........yeah right...

And a Narcan shot straight to the heart?! Holy cow I never knew that was a thing.......? ..... it's not actually.....back In the day Narcan WAS shot into the muscle, never the heart. Nowadays it's just a nasal spray........

Anyway....

I'm actually clean and in recovery from IV use.

Yet I still have the disease of addiction......It's in my brain due to trauma and brain science I won't pretend to fully understand...... however, what I'm saying is an addicts brain is wired differently than yours....

This is not an excuse......Im a f-ckin addict, no shame.......I'm powerless over my addiction always......yet today I have self control......in fact a great deal of it in order to stay clean and get better in life.....

You simply do not understand the world I and my fellow addicts live in and it shows in your opinions........and that's ok, until you start throwing around wrong information with authority from way up there on your horse...

a reply to: SRPrime

And you said "that's all it takes"....

Holy freaking cow..... Smh.....

Substance abuse is a coping mechanism for underlying trauma, toxic shame, mental issues ect.......

Not to mention, a spiritual malady....

Stoping this use of drugs is such a small part of a much bigger picture.....

What do you get when you sober up a horse thief?

A sober horse thief......

a reply to: GoShredAK

Most addicts have two addictions. A physical addiction and a psychological addiction. The physical addiction an can get psst thru detox. The psychological and the brain impairment last a life time.

a reply to: Cmajlz

I agree somewhat...

Getting past the physical dependancy is the first big hurdle....

Depending on the detox setting it can go rather smoothly....

Sadly if one is on their own it can be a miserable hellish experience.........it's not just a physical sickness, its complete physical, mental, emotional torment........(varying in severity obviously)

The underlying psychological problems are the real monsters which can be tamed a variety of ways....

However if no therapy takes place then surely there will be a relapse, or the addiction will manifest in some other horrible way....

Whether or not brain impairment will last a lifetime depends on how far into the depths of addiction one travels.........benzos and alcohol can cause permanent damage in severe cases...

However many times a person can come back stronger than ever before, and the brain does heal.....