Progressive taxes do cause people to move

www.illinoispolicy.org...
Hmmm look at that, people don't want to live in progressive taxed states!!

During the past decade, there has been a well-documented exodus of Americans from the Northeast and Midwest to the West and South. However, there has also been another less-documented trend: Americans moving from progressive income tax states to states with no income taxes.

People will say this doesn't happen. It does. When people are moving one of the things that is often talked about is taxes. For some it can be a big pay loss, or a big pay raise. It can mean retiring better, or having to work longer. I think the next time the census comes out there are going to be some shockers in there (well not for me). I've lived in both highly taxed state and some with no income tax. I know there are things that go under the current like higher "fees". Overall though, no income tax state are still better in my opinion.

The problem with these states is that they are becoming too populated. I think of Florida and Washington State. People are just flocking to these places and now there is a housing problem.

Tax rates do cause people to move. There is plenty of data / studies showing that at some point, people decide enough is enough and will leave.

The problem is that the people that push this kind of nonsense aren't affected by the policies. You get people on the lower end of the income scale that don't pay much if anything.... and then you get the ultra rich who aren't really affected either because they can hide all their money or have little to no "income" that would be subject to the tax.

The people it hurts are the most productive in society. The doctor's, lawyers, middle managers, small business owners, etc. The guys who make a good living, but aren't truly rich.

You are correct, of course, but that isn't the total picture. Oregon, for example, has an income tax, but no sales tax. Does that fact override the income tax? Washington has no income tax, but in most places sales tax is approaching 10%. That's a whole lot of money when you are buying a car which you can't avoid even if you buy out of state. California, on the other hand, has both. Point is that you have to take the overall tax burden into account. Here is one accounting that shows Washington and Oregon are approximately the same.

originally posted by: JAGStorm


The problem with these states is that they are becoming too populated. I think of Florida and Washington State. People are just flocking to these places and now there is a housing problem.

Austin is just having a blast with all of the California refugees.
I can see myself as an old man telling the kids about the 'good ol' days' when you could walk down an alley without suffocating on the fumes of human excrement.

a reply to: schuyler

Interesting link. Looks like they all aligned with the chart I listed except for Nevada, they are closer to the middle as far as overall tax burden.

I noticed my list didn't have New York on it, and on yours it was listed as #1 tax burden, so I looked it up.

www.democratandchronicle.com...

ALBANY - New York's population continues to decline faster than any other state, according to new data released Wednesday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

This is from 2018, but I doubt much has changed.

Some are moving for taxes but most are moving for better opportunities. They also bring their politics with them meaning they are not really running from a tax problem; they are re-creating it somewhere else, at least that is what is happening where I live.

Recently I've been seeing Bernie and Beto signs popping up in yards of these new residents and they are slowly changing the tax structure. Pork projects, dangerous municipal bonds..you name it they will vote for it every single time. That was not the case 20 years ago. Eventually they will ruin it like an invasive species.

a reply to: Homefree

I doubt homeless people are moving because of taxes.

Just saying.

a reply to: JAGStorm

a state still needs revenue - to fund all its programs - so how do " zero income tax " states raise revenue ?

a 1 million pupulation - with 25000 km of roads - 95 schools etc - still needs to fund a slew of programs

do you really save anything - or just think you do ??

a reply to: schuyler

Sales tax sucks, but a least everyone pays it no matter how rich or poor you are, so you would think everyone would sort of think twice about voting to increase it.

As people move from states to escape high taxes they bring their liberal policies with them and want all of they assistance programs their former state offered them, and are happy to vote whomever promises the most aid. Red states are turning blue as a result, and will eventually have a massive impact on the electoral college.
My state has always been strongly red, but in recent years have created 'Welcoming Cities", formerly called Sanctuary Cities. These large, major cities have become blue and are slowly branching out to smaller communities.
I see this trend in many other red stats; turn the largest cities blue, and the rest will follow.

a reply to: nugget1

Yeah, they're like locusts. They never learn that the reason they left a craphole was because they made it a craphole.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: JAGStorm

a state still needs revenue - to fund all its programs - so how do " zero income tax " states raise revenue ?

a 1 million pupulation - with 25000 km of roads - 95 schools etc - still needs to fund a slew of programs

do you really save anything - or just think you do ??

Yes they need money from somewhere and each state does it differently:
www.investopedia.com...

Do you save anything, in my personal opinion YES.
You can choose not to buy cigarettes, but you can't stop paying income tax, big difference.

Property taxes are another way those states get funding, BUT keep in mind the high income tax states often have
the highest property taxes too.

The question should not be "do you really save anything"
The question should be why can't all states be more financially responsible?

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
Some are moving for taxes but most are moving for better opportunities. They also bring their politics with them meaning they are not really running from a tax problem; they are re-creating it somewhere else, at least that is what is happening where I live.

Recently I've been seeing Bernie and Beto signs popping up in yards of these new residents and they are slowly changing the tax structure. Pork projects, dangerous municipal bonds..you name it they will vote for it every single time. That was not the case 20 years ago. Eventually they will ruin it like an invasive species.

The problem is leftist are really bad at connecting dots. The mere fact they bring their politics with them shows they don't recognize they screwed up the places they left. All the stuff they are running from they bring with them...

I see it here all the time in my community where they complain about property taxes, crime, and many other issues. Yet, these are the same people who vote for referendums, politicians, and other policies that encourage and create the very things they are complaining about.

They simply cannot connect dots and think logically. They have no ability to look at the broader macro picture of cause and effect.

a reply to: JAGStorm

A lot of states used to hide their high taxes by allowing people to write off a certain amount of state taxes from their federal liability, but the Republican tax cuts stopped that.

That's why you saw so many people on here crying about how they were worse off afterward. I'll bet they lost that particular deduction and got hosed at both federal and state levels.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JAGStorm

A lot of states used to hide their high taxes by allowing people to write off a certain amount of state taxes from their federal liability, but the Republican tax cuts stopped that.

That's why you saw so many people on here crying about how they were worse off afterward. I'll bet they lost that particular deduction and got hosed at both federal and state levels.

There is going to be some crying again very soon.
Sometime mid- late February we're going to hear a lot of crying.

originally posted by: ketsuko
A lot of states used to hide their high taxes by allowing people to write off a certain amount of state taxes from their federal liability, but the Republican tax cuts stopped that.
That's why you saw so many people on here crying about how they were worse off afterward. I'll bet they lost that particular deduction and got hosed at both federal and state levels.

That would be me. As a resident of New Jersey, despite our state sending more to the Treasury than we get back, I now pay an extra $10,000 a year in taxes.

a reply to: ketsuko

I was so happy to see that happen. The tax cuts finally exposed their scam. Let them get mad. I have been mad for a long long time about subsidizing their scheme.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Welcome to the club. I pay a lot in taxes. The tax cuts helped me some. Not much but it was nice to finally get a little relief.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
I was so happy to see that happen. The tax cuts finally exposed their scam. Let them get mad. I have been mad for a long long time about subsidizing their scheme.

What 'scheme' is that? There's only 14 states that pay their way in this country, the rest are all mooches. So not only am I paying someone else's way, I paying even more of it now.

Another interesting tidbit about this is the people leaving their states for new ones are then turning around and attempting to vote in the same failed liberal policies that made them leave their old state in the first place! Texas is in danger of this.