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Universal healthcare and education

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posted on Feb, 7 2020 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: LuxFer

The US has been indoctrinated since the 1950's that anything "collective" is evil communism. It's retarded. Remember lots of people who still believe in creationism and sometimes taught in school.
Not to mention the US is ranked 37th in the WHO's for health care too.
1st world tanks and planes, dark ages society.




posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 04:42 PM
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Im a wee bit overwhelmed but all the responses. Have not had time to read them all yet but i commend all from left and right. A healthy debate is a beautiful thing



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: ziplock9000

Im an outsider so i can only go on what im told. I am finding it hard to understand the american mindset though as you say



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: AaarghZombies

Whyam i not representative of the uk tax payer? You dont know how i earn my income or what tax bracket i fall under so where is your proof?



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: MountainLaurel

I applaud your own evaluation but i must disagree. Your nations education and health outcomes are way down the l international league tables.



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

Almost all european states have a nationalised healthcare system which delivers better outcomes at a cheaper cost than the US. So why so you all keep regurgitating the same old nonsense?



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Stupidsecrets

My country is far from a socialist country. We have a capitalist economic system while still instituting universal education and health care. I still dont understand why americans think universal health care means a socialist system!



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: LuxFer
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

My country is far from a socialist country. We have a capitalist economic system while still instituting universal education and health care. I still dont understand why americans think universal health care means a socialist system!


I understand it doesn't make your country more definable as socialist than capitalist just because citizens have access to Healthcare and college.

That said, our country is very large and populous. Offering it from a federal standpoint would be very hard. It would be costly and wasteful... While allocating wealth more from some states than others while some may reap the benefits from said states moreso.

There's a lot of nuance to it... But I don't see it playing out well. If people want it, they need to vote in their state to make it happen. States would be more accountable.



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

Im sorry but that argument does not hold up. Look at all of the european countries that have universal health care.

Then look at the per capita spend, the tax rates, and the health outcomes of each contry.

The total citizens has no bearing on tje outcome



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Look at your obesity rates, diabetes rates, and the occurances of other preventable diseases to ours.

We have a lot we need to address... And I just don't see the federal government taking it all on efficiently.



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Americans don't see healthcare and education as a right.

It is an option, a purchased service.

We believe in rights.

A "right" is something that is intrinsic to the individual and is not dependent on anyone else.



posted on Feb, 8 2020 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: LuxFer

They are personal responsibilities and choices. I do not want the Govt to tell me what I can and cannot do health wise. These are the same shills whose pockets are lined with Big PHarma $$! No way is that an option. Our govt has not been very successful in its ventures into well anything. That is why we are the wealthiest nation because of balance and representation (laughable.) Oh and we believe that being able to protect yourself from an indoctrinal govt to be basic human rights.

Our public education system is basically an indoctrination school where the programming begins.


edit on 8-2-2020 by CrazyFox because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 06:19 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy
You're wrong. A right can only work if the other people recognise your right . If not your right is just a leaf in the wind.



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 06:59 AM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: DBCowboy
You're wrong. A right can only work if the other people recognise your right . If not your right is just a leaf in the wind.


I don’t need your recognition to speek freely.
edit on 9-2-2020 by DBCowboy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 07:54 AM
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Free healthcare, free education is the government mandating an obligation that people with more pay for people who have less.



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

You see, in principle I don't really see anything wrong with that even though I may be the one giving more.

Of course there's some who just take it for granted and take the piss, but that's another matter altogether.



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: LuxFer

Our education is completely free from pre school all the way through to university if we choose to follow that path.



I see that as an incorrect statement. College is not available to all, now is it? You have a bureaucratic system to pick and choose and not all choices are based on academic achievements. About 1/3 or less are given the ability to attend college, the rest go off to trade schools etc if they choose to do more after high school.



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: DBCowboy

You see, in principle I don't really see anything wrong with that even though I may be the one giving more.

Of course there's some who just take it for granted and take the piss, but that's another matter altogether.



I guess because I see the government as inherently corrupt, ceding more authority, control, my money, to a corrupt entity never will have a happy ending to anyone other than government.



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I'd agree with you 100% on that....in fact I think I have an even lower opinion of my government and the system it represents than you do of yours!

The thing is; the government don't actually run and manage the NHS themselves.

ETA.

And I don't mind paying a little bit extra to help the most disadvantaged, unfortunate and the ill....its the spongers and those who chose benefits as a life choice that I don't like.


edit on 9/2/20 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2020 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
Free healthcare, free education is the government mandating an obligation that people with more pay for people who have less.


Both of those come with disclaimers, where a bureaucracy system picks and chooses who gets what due to limits of what can be funded. For healthcare it comes in the form of time...yes you can get that operation but not for 8 months...This is why many Canadians have US health insurance too, as example. For school, there are about 7 small countries that offer free school at a cost of less than $20k per student for the state with a 4 year University. Small populations can do this much easier and Sweden as example has only 300k students per year. But is that free college really free?

England has long passed away from the idea of free school and students typically take in $10k to $15k per year of debt. The stipulation is once the student starts earning over $27K per year in their job the 4% loan is automatically taken out of their pay check in the form of a tax. Oh BTW that's about 13 bucks an hour... My son working part time at a department store as a full time student makes 13 bucks an hour, so I can't say 13 bucks per hour is a college degree game changer...lol

Sweden is free...well not really... 2019 student loan debt US per student $31k, 2017 Swedish $20k, 2017 England $55k


85% of Swedish students graduate with debt, versus only 50% in the US. Worst of all, new Swedish graduates have the highest debt-to-income ratios of any group of students in the developed world (according to estimates of what they're expected to earn once they get out of school)--somewhere in the neighborhood of 80%. The US, where we're constantly being told that student debt is hitting crisis proportions, the average is more like 60%. Why?


What this means is you still gain debt through student loans and the value of the degree earned is much lower in terms of future income to debt ratio. I'm not saying this is good or bad to America's system, but it isn't free as you seem to suggest.




edit on 9-2-2020 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



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