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Universal healthcare and education

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posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 03:16 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

All of our education from pre school to higher education is free to all citizens. And no offence but i understand full well the intricacies of the english language. I am typing on a phone so it is convenient to use millenial text speak sometimes




posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I am in no way criticising america either. I would simply like to understand the mindset from an opposing point of view.

If it was not for america and russia i could be speaking german and living in a facist state. No matter the generation we dont forget.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Many in the US ask this same question, especially younger people. I'll do my best to explain why many of us also reject Universal Health Care and Education. If I may, I'd like to ask a few questions too, that I'm curious about. The 1st one is " Do people in your Country have the option of paying for a higher quality of Health Care and Education ? "

In the US, private schools are significantly better then government run schools, it may vary somewhat from area to area because of parent involvement and the areas average incomes, but even then there is a State mandated curriculum, some might even say " agenda " at play. More and more the schools seek to override Family values in place of " Progressive " values.

So, this is a dilemma for parents who can't afford a private school or do home school ( which is still heavily monitored by public schools ) Now here's the rub, public schools receive approximately $12,000 a year per student, funded by taxpayers and property taxes, close to the amount it would cost to send a child to private school. So why are private schools so much better ? Is it because the bureaucracy wastes money ? Is it because we have increasing numbers of illegal immigrants children in the system who pay less taxes ? Is it because the government is full of crooks ? I would say all of the above is a factor. Private schools are better because of competition and the schools ( business ) need to give the parents ( customers ) children a good education and abide by the parents values or they will lose their business.


The amount spent per pupil for public elementary and secondary education (prekindergarten through 12th grade) for all 50 states and the District of Columbia increased by 3.7% to $12,201 per pupil

www.census.gov...

It's really the same idea with Health Care, we already have free health care, but it's not as good. Long waits to see the least experienced doctors or interns for non emergencies. Hospitals will take all emergencies, which is a whole other problem, causing overcrowded hospitals and hospitals charging more to those who can pay to offset the costs of people not paying. Again it's about competition, Private doctors and hospitals are better because their patients ( customers ) expect and demand them to be better. Do people in your Country have the option to pay for higher quality health care ?

I have some friends from Canada who tell me their health care is terrible ( in terms of wait times, tests and long travels to see a specialist ) and People will often come to the US for better quality of care if they can afford it.

To summarize, competition/ Capitalism breeds excellence, Socialism breeds mediocrity and worse, it also provides a means for corrupt governments to fleece their Countries wealth and cause poverty and collapse.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 05:31 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

We haven't had any popular politicians offer a convincing way they could make it happen without increasing taxes and putting us further in debt.

I lean libertarian... So I'm not for it unless I'd be confident it could be done in a smart, efficient, cost effective, and uncompromising way to quality of care. My realism sees little chance of that happening.

Further more, I think it's something states should do, not the federal government.... That way we're still left with choices.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 05:49 AM
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originally posted by: MountainLaurel
If I may, I'd like to ask a few questions too, that I'm curious about. The 1st one is " Do people in your Country have the option of paying for a higher quality of Health Care and Education ? "

Yes, both. Opportunities for private education include what we call "The Public School system", which is actually (confusingly) a network of elite private schools, like Eton and Harrow. Opinions differ about whether this is really better education, or just higher status education providing a better class of old school friends.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

When the pilgrims came to the new world they ran into a problem early on. They tried a socialists system but it failed. Some of them were doing most of the work while others next to nothing. Eventually some said to hell with that system and started creating new settlements. So in a nutshell some valued personal freedom and self reliance more than the common good for all.

Fast forward to today and much of that mindset is still intact in the US. As the saying goes, in the US people live to work. In Europe people work to live. Nothing wrong with either system, both have advantages but the one that values work also values innovation and rewarding that innovation more. A lot more.

And look at the results. There is no denying where most of the innovation and personal wealth resides in the world. Unfortunately however, some will struggle in this system. They could be fully taken care of (healthcare / education) but that would effectively break the system by removing personal freedom and self reliance.

The US though isn't totally a bunch of heartless bastards. Some states do offer free education, healthcare. The US also values military service so they get all the perks as well. If that doesn't work out there are still loans, charities, scholarships. Basically a compromise. Strong workers and innovators are still heavily rewarded without leaning on them and re-distributing their wealth and quality of life too much for the common good.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 06:30 AM
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originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: LuxFer

When the pilgrims came to the new world they ran into a problem early on. They tried a socialists system but it failed. Some of them were doing most of the work while others next to nothing. Eventually some said to hell with that system and started creating new settlements. So in a nutshell some valued personal freedom and self reliance more than the common good for all.

Fast forward to today and much of that mindset is still intact in the US. As the saying goes, in the US people live to work. In Europe people work to live. Nothing wrong with either system, both have advantages but the one that values work also values innovation and rewarding that innovation more. A lot more.

And look at the results. There is no denying where most of the innovation and personal wealth resides in the world. Unfortunately however, some will struggle in this system. They could be fully taken care of (healthcare / education) but that would effectively break the system by removing personal freedom and self reliance.

The US though isn't totally a bunch of heartless bastards. Some states do offer free education, healthcare. The US also values military service so they get all the perks as well. If that doesn't work out there are still loans, charities, scholarships. Basically a compromise. Strong workers and innovators are still heavily rewarded without leaning on them and re-distributing their wealth and quality of life too much for the common good.








The minute government became involved in Funding college and giving it to everyone was the minute the cost of college skyrocketed out of control. University’s had a blank check thanks to government intervention.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Your Country needs to propose a buyout of the United States !!!

Why haven't they suggested this ?? 😃



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Our government has a multi billion dollar annual deficit and has put us in trillions of dollars of debt.
Couple that with the fact that they have a near perfect record of not being able to run any program efficiently and on budget so no, I will pass on Washington controlling my healthcare for as long as possible.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: Throes

The US doesn't have a student debt problem. We have a for profit school problem. They hand out worthless paper on the wall then demand tax payers bail them out when their hoodwinked students can't pay them back.

Before for profit schools blew up going to a university on personal loans was totally manageable and the degrees had real value. The loans could be paid back swiftly once the graduate entered the work force.

Now we have another problem. An army of hoodwinked dummy students. They are armed with voting power and attacking the people who had nothing to do with it like myself. That's fine. Go ahead and attack me. Just don't be mad when the army I belong to sends your dumb a** home to mommy and don't be mad when Trump gets re-elected.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Only read your OP so far but.....Good Luck, you're going to need it!




posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:25 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
If I may, I'd like to ask a few questions too, that I'm curious about. The 1st one is " Do people in your Country have the option of paying for a higher quality of Health Care and Education ? "

Yes, both. Opportunities for private education include what we call "The Public School system", which is actually (confusingly) a network of elite private schools, like Eton and Harrow. Opinions differ about whether this is really better education, or just higher status education providing a better class of old school friends.



In a lot of European countries there is much more than just the "elite" schools. There are regular private schools and academies that aren't "elite". Some of them offer a single sex education or a religious education, or are trade schools. Or they are just regular comprehensive schools that have a particular social or political perspective.

You also get special private schools for the blind, or deaf, or for children with other special educational needs where the parents feel that they would benefit from being outside oft he mainstream.

You also get private schools that are simply boarding schools. as well as international schools that teach in specific languages. I used to live near to a Japanese girls school. It was just a regular Japanese girls school, but not in Japan, and before anybody asks, they kept the weebs away.

The truth is that in Europe, you there is a healthy private sector that competes directly wit the public sector. You're not forced to use either one.

I got my teeth fixed at a state dentist. Full train track braces top and bottom, it took about 4 years. I never paid a penny outside of the standard income based taxes as it was considered medical rather than cosmetic due to problems with my jaw. In the US this would have cost thousands of dollars, and I'd not have had it done at all due to the cost even though it caused my problems. The same dentist did private dentistry. Everything from whitening to braces.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Our taxes also fund a military that your nation benefits from. One reason Trump wants Europe paying more into NATO.

Until we do something about military spending its fruitless to talk about healthcare.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:26 AM
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"Free"

It's sad they are so brainwashed they think the govt taking their money and then 100% owning their decisions for them is "free".



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

We just have medical covered where I am and I couldn't imagine living without it.

It must be terrifying to be an american, I assume it's a part of why there is so much aggression inside of them.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: LuxFer
a reply to: Metallicus I don’t consider the government meddling in my healthcare decisions a “benefit”. I think therein lies the answer to your question. We don’t want the government meddling in important decisions like healthcare.


I think this is what confuses a lot of Europeans.

It's not meddling. You get a choice. Most people choose to use the state system as it's very highly regulated and it doesn't cost you extra.

If you don't want to use the state service you can just take your custom elsewhere. There are many private companies that compete directly with the state. Some of them offer enhanced services, or specialist services above what the state offers. Some of them simply offer more convenience.

Sometimes it's tax deductible, sometimes it isn't. Depending on the service.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: LuxFer

Our education system K-12 is pretty much 100% socialized (free), and it is horrible. Some districts in some cities are so bad that by the time kids graduate from high school, they are functionally 50% illiterate as adults.

The research is out there. Most of those same big city school districts spend more per student than many smaller private schools and achiever crap results. Kids are trapped into going to them and end up ignorant.

At the same time, we are constantly told that it's all about not having enough money. If they just had more ... But the US spends more per student on education than almost every other developed nation and never realizes any education gains.

Things like this make us skeptical that the same government apparatus that cannot educate our children, only makes them dumber, should be put in charge of any more programs to provide universal anything to everyone against the will of many.

If the cannot fix what they already run and provide good outcomes for most, then they aren't fit to take over more.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I read somewhere that in France the "public" school system is looser allowing parents more freedom to choose the actual school for the child, closer to the voucher style system people advocate for here in the US. Parents can pick the school, the state chips in a certain amount, and parents are liable for any extra.

Schools compete with perks and specialties, etc., to draw in students.



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: LuxFer

Our taxes also fund a military that your nation benefits from. One reason Trump wants Europe paying more into NATO.

Until we do something about military spending its fruitless to talk about healthcare.


Agreed.

And even then I'd want a clear vision on how they'd make sure they were being cost effective... And that should be at a state, not federal level.

Healthcare: luxury taxes on tobacco, alcohol, and junk food. We also need to stop giving subsidies to the corn industry while acting like it's in a "major food group". This wouldn't solve everything, but truth be told, we're paying for everyone's Healthcare that doesn't participate one way or another. Hospitals cannot deny someone, and if they don't pay, we do.

College: no more state funding to schools who spend on frivolous campuses. If you're state funded, you offer quality education at a reasonable rate. If someone can't afford the 6,000 a year... They can do a stem course and intern with a government agency and replace some salary work.

Those are examples of creative ideas... They may not necessarily work. But the beauty is if different states are trying unique things... We can opt in or out, and we can use the contrast to see what works and what doesn't rather than gambling the feds find success. Because we all know those odds.
edit on 6-2-2020 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2020 @ 07:56 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko
I didn't know about the French system (in fact my knowledge even of our own isn't recent).
I'm not sure if a voucher system has ever been suggested here, but I can imagine it being a controversial proposal. The socialists would be up in arms.




edit on 6-2-2020 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



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