Trans Activism, Trans Regret, and Resources for Desisters and Detransitioners

a reply to: ketsuko

care to point out where i've ever said anything even remotely like "men make better women"? i think you'll find that pretty difficult because it's not remotely what i believe. I think you're getting your strawmen tangled up again! i know, it's a lot of work keeping them separated, isn't it?

And yeah, not to rub it in or anything, but my life is actually pretty pitch perfect right now. The closest thing to a negative i've got going on is that what used to be my favourite website, where i'd go to catch the latest UFO vids, is now a hive of qanons and terfs. Which is fine because it's funny to read to my friends, but it's not the same, you know? yeah it's a bit of a first world problem but like i said, perfect life going on here what can i say

a reply to: Boadicea

There are a few real transgender people that are born in the wrong body type. The rest? Most likely run the gamut of you name it. But at the end of the day. Or at least they they come out with the artificial womb, and really splice the genes on what just makes a male and female.

I would say 99.9% of everything you see when people get together, is just nature, ie just the reproduction drive and urge. The rest? That .1%? Is peoples opinions on it, dressing it up in colorful clothes and making more of it then it really is.

But in all people will be people. May as well ask them about there favorite Pokemon. But nature is no mystery, it always follows the path of least resistance. Or at least till it doesn't? And when it doesn't? Would not want to be in its way. Like I said, there are some people out there who would transition and be transgender because they really are in the wrong body, and some not, the rest? Well they just follow the crowd and the cool thing to do thats in the lime light this minute.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: continuousThunder

You call this living your best life? Here bitching with us bitter women who are watching you tell us that men make better women?

I dont know about that. I have seen some #. And I have come to the conclusion long ago, that it may just take a man to do a woman's job right.

But the weak sauce runs the gamut not only throughout all genders, but through out all life. There are plenty of women out there who suck at being women that's for sure. Much less feminine. And vice versa. But then again, opinions and assholes, two things both genders have in common.

So ya, there are dudes out there who are more feminine then women out there. But that only says something if you stop looking at people as individuals.

In the end. Who cares, even people who transition then latter regret it. It is there decision to make. Its there regret to make....Or not. Either way. The only issue I would have, is the whole craze to shoot up your dump ass kids full of drugs because being transgender is the hip thing to do, or because there parents hold a secret grudge against some ex they had 10 years ago or some other stupid #.

Plenty of stupid # out there for sure.

a reply to: Kalamitous

So so sad... What do you really want me to say? What do you really want to hear? Just keep telling it to yourself, because I seriously doubt you're going to hear it from me.

Any and all Trans people who aren't hurting other people or making demands -- any demands -- upon others are fine with me. Just like any person period who isn't hurting other people or making demands upon others are fine with me.

Do you want to hear about the Trans person who helped me at Jack-in-the-Box with the smile so beautiful I thanked them for it and told them it made my day? I have no idea if they were male transitioning to female or vice versa. It could have been either/or. I really don't know. But their smile was beautiful, I appreciated it, and thanked them for sharing it with me. Or how about the trans cashier at CVS that was swamped, the only one open, and handled themselves so well and so efficiently that I complimented them, and later sent an email to the store manager because I was so impressed? Again, I have no idea what/who they identified as or what/who they were born. Didn't matter. They did their job very well and I was impressed and said so.

Maybe you want to hear about the obviously male but presenting female sales clerk that used to work at my favorite fabric store. He dressed very colorful and flamboyant and had a really fantastic eye for colors and textures and all that good stuff, and he was awesome about letting me pick his brain. He adored my kids too and would set aside pieces of fabric for them and be all happy and excited to show us the next time we came in.

Or maybe the ones you really want to hear about are the trannies on Santa Monica and Highland that I used to hang out with after going to the clubs occasionally. The ones who didn't pretend they were anything except men in dresses. Well, they were working men in dresses if you get my drift, but they knew exactly who and what they were and didn't make any bones about it. I'll never forget one time someone yelled out at them, and one yelled back, "Come here and say that, and I'll kick your ass like a man!" And he would have. I have no doubt. But that was back in the 70s, when people just did their thing and had fun with it... unless and until someone started trouble.

You want sooooooooooooo much to think I'm just some awful hateful TERFy Feminist, and those who know me best know I am nothing like that. But neither do I suffer bullies in silence. The whole reason I am so accepting of people just living and letting live is BECAUSE they are so many craptastic bullies and tyrants in the world that are trouble for the rest of the world. Call me whatever you want. Think whatever you want. I don't care.

If you are really as concerned as you say, then focus on the bullying (and outright violence!) of the Trans Activists that are spoiling it for everyone. It's not the Rad Fems, it's not the TruScum, and it's not me. It's the damn Trans Activists.

a reply to: continuousThunder

Oh dear... what a bunch of fun words for you to say...

Actually, it wasn't until my gay friends and family started telling me about the very ugly underbelly of the Trans Activism that I became concerned... things like the "Cotton Ceiling" and the grooming of pretty young men and autogynephilia and so much more. I researched further. I learned more than I ever wanted to know.

Worst of all is how this was being silenced. So I'm speaking up loud and proud. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, so I address it from my perspective. I can be informed and educated by others, but I cannot speak for them.

And for everyone who has criticized me for it -- for the obvious reasons -- I have been thanked by even more people. Both here on ATS and in real life. I have even received private messages from transsexuals thanking me.

I have said repeatedly and consistently that folks can dress like they want, adorn themselves like they want, sleep with who they want, and be who and what they want. But they can only live as themselves no matter what superficial accoutrements they choose. When Trans Activists and Trans Activism stops hurting people and stops making unreasonable demands on others, I will have nothing left to say about it.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: continuousThunder

You call this living your best life? Here bitching with us bitter women who are watching you tell us that men make better women?

While dancing in the sun and blissfully unaware of us...

Funny how it's only men identifying as women who need to feel like the "better" woman, eh? Funny that we don't need to be validated like that, eh?

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: ketsuko

care to point out where i've ever said anything even remotely like "men make better women"?

Speaking personally, you have flat out told me before that Trans Women are better women than I am. Not in this thread, but in others.

And not just you of course. I have had my "womanhood" attacked several times by others in defense/promotion of Trans Women.

a reply to: Kalamitous

Looks like an interesting approach... I'm watching.

Thanks for posting.

a reply to: Boadicea

When did it become acceptable -- even expected! -- to kiss and tell?

You said it.

it amazes me is this global (or is it global at all ?) need to expose your sexuality and have it vetted by the world. And not just vetted. It needs to be legally approved, accepted publicly, even with fake smiles if need be. It's unreal.

Like religion, if everybody just kept their sexual preference to themselves and practice it in intimacy with whomever you want...imagine that. What would you have to bi*** about then ? The more you spiral into thinking about it, the more you realize that this is some kind of weird game without an obvious plan. Or the motives for pushing identity politics are anything but...identity issues.

Why would anyone want to define themselves solely by their sexuality?

It is the most pertinent of questions. One, if thinks in silence, should actually be offended having its entire existence, its character, its experiences reduced to a pronoun that apparently generally defines what and who that person is.

It's a laughable concept, embraced wholeheartedly by the left.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Boadicea

There are a few real transgender people that are born in the wrong body type.

I really don't know if that's true. I understand that there are people who relate more to society's gender roles and stereotypes, and I can understand that it would be much easier to get along in current society by living according to that gender role and stereotype. But I don't believe that someone was born in the wrong body. Why is it not the wrong brain in the right body?

The rest? Most likely run the gamut of you name it.

I agree... I snipped for brevity's sake, but I agree with your entire comment. I think there are many many reasons why people decide to identify as the opposite gender... or no gender, or gender fluid, and so on.

But nature is no mystery, it always follows the path of least resistance. Or at least till it doesn't? And when it doesn't? Would not want to be in its way. Like I said, there are some people out there who would transition and be transgender because they really are in the wrong body, and some not, the rest? Well they just follow the crowd and the cool thing to do thats in the lime light this minute.

I think another part of this is that young people especially have been conditioned to think that they should feel like their bio sex. And if they don't, then they believe the reason is because they're really the opposite sex. I don't think the vast majority of people "feel like" their bio sex. It just is.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

(Deleted)

I think I misread your statement... and therefore spouted stupid nonsense in response.

My apologies!!!

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I'm of the opinion we are who we are.

The argument the one poster put up that we "each have our own gender" hits on to my truth which is that gender is a distraction.

We have our biological sex, and we have our individual personalities. It actually offends me to see people looking at little boys who like certain activities or not, or little girls doing the same, and then trying to label them as being gender confused for it.

There are things I do that are more traditionally masculine than my husband prefers while there are things he likes that are more traditionally thought of as feminine. For example, he's the main cook and I grew up the athlete and enjoy sports much more. However, neither of us were ever confused in that way.

We prefer to tell our son there are no "girl" activities or "boy" activities, only activities, and sometimes he'll notice that more boys or more girls will tend to like a certain thing, but that shouldn't put him off if he wants to try it.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird

I dont know about that. I have seen some #. And I have come to the conclusion long ago, that it may just take a man to do a woman's job right.

But the weak sauce runs the gamut not only throughout all genders, but through out all life. There are plenty of women out there who suck at being women that's for sure. Much less feminine. And vice versa. But then again, opinions and assholes, two things both genders have in common.

No. No no no no no. Just no. There is no right or wrong way to "woman." And I think this is the problem. Beyond our anatomical and biological realities and necessities, we are individuals -- not "man" or "woman."

So ya, there are dudes out there who are more feminine then women out there. But that only says something if you stop looking at people as individuals.

I would say that only matters to those who look at genitals and stereotypes.

And isn't that pretty much what the Transgender ideology does? Only looks at genitals and stereotypes to judge individuals? And that includes themselves.

Plenty of stupid # out there for sure.

Ain't that the truth!!!

I don't see the point of making a political issue of a medical issue. Transgenderism IS a medical issue.
The medical consensus is that its not merely some idea put in one's head based on some politics.

As for treatment , there are different opinions for different individuals. And yes some medical opinion is to do gender assignment as early as possible.
There are many medical treatment for kids without waiting for adulthood , this is just one of them.


As for what is a female , that is individual matter , some don't see Trans Women as female , and some don't see feminists as female ; to each their own.
So Trans Women are as much female as TERF or to some even MORE.

a reply to: dude1

The medical consensus is that its not merely some idea put in one's head based on some politics.

Consensus ? I like that word since...97 %.

Anyway...I doubt there is a general consensus on the issue. Or maybe you wanted to state..there is a consensus among the doctors that are of...err... liberal persuasion.

originally posted by: dude1
I don't see the point of making a political issue of a medical issue.

It only becomes a political issue when folks use the law (enforced by the barrel of a government gun) to force their will on everyone else. If Trans people were not trying to change laws to cater to them, there would be no politics.

ransgenderism IS a medical issue.

Well, yes and no. It might be for some people; for example, autogynephiles. The theory being that they produce too much testosterone, which in turn creates "Erotic Target Location Errors" -- in layman's terms, if I understand correctly, their male bodies are so sexually sensitive that they experience arousal in typically female ways in addition to typically male ways.

The problem is that Trans Activism rejects any medicalization. They do not want a medical diagnosis, much less a psychological diagnosis. They want Self-ID. Nor do they want to know if there is a medical cause that can be corrected with treatment. In fact, there are major efforts to legal ban any and all such "conversion" therapy. So even if it could be shown that the Erotic Target Location Errors can be corrected via hormonal treatment, for example, Trans Activism rejects any and all such efforts.

It is also well documented that transgender identifying persons have an astronomically disproportionately high number of mental disorders, often related to physical and/or sexual abuse as a child. Cluster B disorders -- such as narcissism and OCD -- are very common as well. Autism is also a common diagnosis. But these secondary diagnoses are usually ignored to support their transgender identity, which doesn't help anyone.

The medical consensus is that its not merely some idea put in one's head based on some politics.

But "consensus" is not science or fact or truth. Further, when Trans Activism makes it impossible for ALL medical providers to speak their truth due to fear of losing their jobs, or grants, or otherwise threatened, then "consensus" just means "censored."

As for what is a female , that is individual matter...

Really? Then what is the word for people who have the type of body with vulvas and ovaries and produce small gametes? I'm serious. "Female" is the word for those people. "Woman" is an adult human female. If we're going to re-define "female" and "woman" in man's image, then what is the proper word for those people who have the type of body with vulvas and ovaries and produce small gametes that were formally known as "female" and "woman"?

For all the crying and whining about how us awful TERFs and Rad Fems are denying their existence, what they hell are they doing to those people formerly known as "females" and "women" who still have that specific body??? Who is erasing who???

...some don't see Trans Women as female , and some don't see feminists as female ; to each their own.
So Trans Women are as much female as TERF or to some even MORE.

Really? Feminists with their vulvas and ovaries and small gametes aren't female? Oh dear lordy... Only in Trans Ideology.

Most people understand the difference between fact and opinion (or delusion). Most people understand the difference between what is tangible, objective and measurable (such as physical body types) and what is intangible, subjective and immeasurable (such as "laydee brain").

Trans women are not female, are not women, and never will be. If they cannot accept and embrace their own reality, then they are the one's denying their own existence.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: dude1
Consensus ? I like that word since...97 %.

Sorry , global warming is a Scientific Consensus too.
Science isn't political , there are no liberal evolutionists climate scientists or doctors.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Trans Activism rejects any medicalization

We have to agree on what medical consensus is before medicalization and any Activism.
And gender assignment is very much a medical treatment , proving that Trans Activism support medicalization.

Feminists with their vulvas and ovaries and small gametes aren't female ?

"Female" is the word for those people. "Woman" is an adult human female

tangible, objective and measurable (such as physical body types)

What about chromosomal aberration , intersex , sexual orientation , gender roles , and many other ways people view someone as female ?

"laydee brain"

Have brain in it , so physical.

It's not about Trans Ideology (of which I'm unfamiliar) , its the conclusion from the breakdown of the too simple definition you gave.

So don't call trans woman , woman , and use your definition only ; but don't deny the medical consensus about them (like you objection to legal ban any and all such "conversion" therapy). Are you against ban on gay "conversion" therapy too ?

a reply to: dude1

We have to agree on what medical consensus is before medicalization and any Activism.

So, in other words, I have to agree on your newfangled definition of words?

And gender assignment is very much a medical treatment , proving that Trans Activism support medicalization.

Taking cross-sex hormones is no more or less medical treatment than recreational drug use is medical treatment. Using a syringe doesn't make it a medical treatment. Using a syringe to administer medicine for a medical condition is a medical treatment. Likewise, cosmetic surgery for superficial purposes is not medical treatment. If someone doesn't like their nose and has it surgically altered to please their senses, that isn't a medical treatment. Someone who has their nose surgically repaired because it does not function properly -- such as a deviated septum or adnoid issues -- is a medical treatment.

What about chromosomal aberration , intersex , sexual orientation , gender roles , and many other ways people view someone as female ?

You are not answering my very clear and direct question and are using circular logic and re-definitions to obscure the facts.

Chromosomal aberration...What about it? Regardless of chromosomes, the vast majority of people have one of two body types with particular genitals and reproductive organs. Intersex is a defect, not transgender. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with anatomy. Gender roles are subjective, made up out of whole cloth, and have been used to repress, oppress, and impose the will of men on women.

I will ask again: If "female" is whatever the hell someone wants to make it in your dictionary, then what do you call those people with the body type that has a vulva and produces small gametes? We're still here. We still exist. Our anatomical reality has not changed just because you decided to re-define the word used for us.

Have brain in it , so physical...

So you believe that there is such a thing as "laydee brain"? So if we lined up 100 brains on a table, we could identify which ones were "laydee" brains and which ones are not?

More to the point, you believe that there is an objective, measurable and tangible difference in "guy" brains and "laydee" brains?

It's not about Trans Ideology (of which I'm unfamiliar)...

So it comes naturally to you?

its the conclusion from the breakdown of the too simple definition you gave.

Too simple? Oh my. Because men really know how to define women? Because I'm supposed to judge myself by what the men who identify as women dictate that women really are?

Ain't gonna happen.

So don't call trans woman , woman , and use your definition only...

Not my definition. The definitions of "woman" and "female" existed long before you or I graced this earth.

And inquiring minds still want to know, if "female" no longer means the body type that produces small gametes, and "woman" no longer means an adult human female, then what are the appropriate words? We are still here. We exist. We have very different needs and realities than bodies with a penis and testes and produce large gametes. What are we now called? How do we assemble and organize and discuss our specific common needs and realities if we have no word to describe/identify ourselves because those with different bodies and needs and realities re-define our words for themselves?

...but don't deny the medical consensus about them...

Haven't really denied it, just corrected it. Specifically, I expanded and clarified according to long established and documented definitions.

(like you objection to legal ban any and all such "conversion" therapy). Are you against ban on gay "conversion" therapy too ?

I am opposed to forcing anyone to do or not do anything. So, yes, I am opposed to bans on gay conversion therapy. Gay folks can and should make such choices for themselves.

a reply to: Boadicea
I'm not the medical community. Do the same as you do with every other medical consensus.

Because I'm supposed to judge myself by what the men who identify as women dictate that women really are?

You are not suppose to anything. Why would trans woman have to use your judgement of themselves ?

We have very different needs and realities than

Everyone have different needs. Some that have the some bodies as you have different needs and some with different bodies have the same needs.

Haven't really denied it, just corrected it

Is your correction the medical consensus ? If not then that is a denial.

I am opposed to forcing anyone to do or not do anything

Even if its fraudulent and harmful ?

a reply to: dude1

Circular logic. And you still refuse to answer my very clear and direct question:

What is the proper word for those of us now-formerly (to you) known as "females" and "women"?

Don't tell me about our differences. Don't tell me about the varying stages of womanhood. Don't tell me about women with defective or diseased or broken genitals and/or organs. We're not talking about individual differences among women, we're talking about the commonalities of those of us formerly and collectively known as "female" and "women" based entirely upon what we share.

What is the proper word for those of us now-formerly (to you) known as "females" and "women."

I'll throw in a bonus question (that I doubt you'll answer either because there is no valid answer): What commonalities do women share with trans women -- but not with any other man -- that makes them "the same" as us?