The Bernie situation

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

BND serves primarily state government accounts and the state had to make a law by which ALL state of North Dakota banking goes through BND. The bank serves very few private accounts. Also North Dakota is the 4th least populous US state. We are talking about an overall nation and federal government here. A federal government which has a long history of misusing dollars (as evidenced by it's outlandish national debt and even more outlandish unfunded liabilities)... but you think it could operate more efficiently than private industries? Puh-leeze!

No, we’re not. We’re talking about one example, that you requested, where the govt acts as a better, more efficient shepherd of money. I gave it to you. Change the goal posts somewhere else.

It sounds like Bernie Sanders is kicking butt in tonight's Iowa caucus.

a reply to: pexx421

fee.org...

The more interlaced a system is, the more ripples impact multiple portions of that system. The mechanism allowing sub-prime mortgages and setting quotas for the Frannie Mae and Freddie Mac government enterprises impacted the overall market and skewed the rates, opening the doors to the middle class to also refinance their homes and end up with underwater mortgages and payments they couldn't afford. Nothing happens within a bubble.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

BND serves primarily state government accounts and the state had to make a law by which ALL state of North Dakota banking goes through BND. The bank serves very few private accounts. Also North Dakota is the 4th least populous US state. We are talking about an overall nation and federal government here. A federal government which has a long history of misusing dollars (as evidenced by it's outlandish national debt and even more outlandish unfunded liabilities)... but you think it could operate more efficiently than private industries? Puh-leeze!

No, we’re not. We’re talking about one example, that you requested, where the govt acts as a better, more efficient shepherd of money. I gave it to you. Change the goal posts somewhere else.

I figured it was obvious that we were discussing the federal government since Bernie is running for the leadership position in the federal government, not some piss ant micropopulated state with more acres of barren land than people.

originally posted by: carewemust
It sounds like Bernie Sanders is kicking butt in tonight's Iowa caucus.

Yes, he's leading all candidates with zero votes at 0% reporting. Where are you seeing him doing any kicking whatsoever?

originally posted by: carewemust
It sounds like Bernie Sanders is kicking butt in tonight's Iowa caucus.

He did.

And the train has just started rolling down the tracks.

Bernie vs Trump will be a real horse race.

Trump will probably prevail - and he's earned it, but having 2 good candidates with very different ideas about what's good for our country benefits all of us.

I can't understand why some people can't seem to grasp that?

I'm going to enjoy Presidential election race 2020.

originally posted by: pexx421
You’re making the claim. Support it with facts or shut up.

Asking me to prove that government takeover of the economy increases costs and inefficiencies by orders of magnitude when compared to a profit driven private sector is like asking me to prove that water runs downhill.

So, show me a commun[social][fasc]ist state that is anywhere near as successful as our country is right now and provides even half the level of personal freedom - or STFU yourself.

originally posted by: Riffrafter
Bernie vs Trump will be a real horse race.

Rotflmao! Whatever makes you feel better...

Trump will probably prevail

Trump will stomp all over anything the dems wind up bringing, including Commie-Bernie.

but having 2 good candidates with very different ideas about what's good for our country benefits all of us.

In this I agree - the contrast of a vibrant successful business man who loves our country with a decrepit old commun[social][fasc]ist is a great way to wake people up out of their deep sleep they've been in - and it is working, in case you hadn't noticed.

I'm going to enjoy Presidential election race 2020.

You and me both, brother!

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: pexx421
You’re making the claim. Support it with facts or shut up.

Asking me to prove that government takeover of the economy increases costs and inefficiencies by orders of magnitude when compared to a profit driven private sector is like asking me to prove that water runs downhill.

So, show me a commun[social][fasc]ist state that is anywhere near as successful as our country is right now and provides even half the level of personal freedom - or STFU yourself.

Except we’re not talking about “government taking over the economy”. That’s not on anyone’s table. We’re talking about a simple fact. Can government run businesses be as successful or more successful than private ones. And this has been proven true many times over. There are plenty gov run health systems that score much higher than the private, us health system. Govt utilities that provide better services at lower cost than private ones seem to be the majority. Govt provided police seem as effective or more so than private investigators. There’s govt run oil and gas companies such as in Norway, that do just as good. I typically find the usps to be just as good as fedex or ups. It does seem also that black water and the us military are equally good at wasting huge amounts of taxpayer dollars as well.

So, there ya go.

originally posted by: pexx421
Except we’re not talking about “government taking over the economy”. That’s not on anyone’s table.

The health care industry is about 20% of the economy. Anyone who says that a government takeover of that sector of our economy is not 'government taking over our economy' is just stupid.

Are you?

We’re talking about a simple fact.

No. You're yammering about pure fantasies running around in your head.

Can government run businesses be as successful or more successful than private ones. And this has been proven true many times over.

So, by all means... show the evidence.

There are plenty gov run health systems that score much higher than the private, us health system. Govt utilities that provide better services at lower cost than private ones seem to be the majority. Govt provided police seem as effective or more so than private investigators. There’s govt run oil and gas companies such as in Norway, that do just as good. I typically find the usps to be just as good as fedex or ups. It does seem also that black water and the us military are equally good at wasting huge amounts of taxpayer dollars as well.

So, there ya go.

There ya go? A lot of vague references with zero substance to back it up.

One thing I'll give you - small/local municipalities do seem to occasionally be able to provide decent internet service as compared to the government approved monopolies (which are really just government service in disguise) - if they can get past the lawsuits brought forth by the other government service provider(s) - you know them as the government protected monopoly disguised as the local cable company.

originally posted by: network dude
They wouldn't be angry at Trump or Trump's people, we would love to run against Bernie. They would be angry at the DNC. Something about the enemy of my enemy........

Absolutely correct. The DNC and Bernie’s people are very much NOT the same camp. And oh boy would Bernie’s people love a Bernie vs Trump election.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: pexx421
Except we’re not talking about “government taking over the economy”. That’s not on anyone’s table.

The health care industry is about 20% of the economy. Anyone who says that a government takeover of that sector of our economy is not 'government taking over our economy' is just stupid.

Are you?

We’re talking about a simple fact.

No. You're yammering about pure fantasies running around in your head.

Can government run businesses be as successful or more successful than private ones. And this has been proven true many times over.

So, by all means... show the evidence.

There are plenty gov run health systems that score much higher than the private, us health system. Govt utilities that provide better services at lower cost than private ones seem to be the majority. Govt provided police seem as effective or more so than private investigators. There’s govt run oil and gas companies such as in Norway, that do just as good. I typically find the usps to be just as good as fedex or ups. It does seem also that black water and the us military are equally good at wasting huge amounts of taxpayer dollars as well.

So, there ya go.

There ya go? A lot of vague references with zero substance to back it up.

One thing I'll give you - small/local municipalities do seem to occasionally be able to provide decent internet service as compared to the government approved monopolies (which are really just government service in disguise) - if they can get past the lawsuits brought forth by the other government service provider(s) - you know them as the government protected monopoly disguised as the local cable company.

Ah. I see. You talk around in circles, never putting up facts of your own, and shifting the goal post whenever I provide facts and answers. As if you don’t know that the vast majority of western industrialized nations have gov healthcare that ranks far higher than ours but costs way less. Or that across the board, public us utility companies cost far less and provide the same service as private ones. Or that Norway’s nationalized oil industry is just as effective as our private ones. I’m tired of posting facts and reality while you just baselessly attack those facts with made up lies and deluded opinions. This isn’t a game to win, it’s a discussion, and I prefer honest discussions so feel free to find someone else to troll.

a reply to: network dude
Dude, I think you got me wrong here. I don't hold those fears, I have concerns. Just as I had concerns over the Clinton Machine that has, or had been running the DNC since Slick Willy first won. But I understand those fears, I have an active imagination, it's just that I know it for what it is and don't let my concerns become embedded like that where they turn to fear.

And I try to not let myself slip into thinking less of what you call the opposition. We see that kind of thinking rampant here on ATS don't you agree? The thinking less of the opposition by our conservative spokesmen here can be overwhelming at times. Again, as far as opposition goes, the opposition to my position was threatened by the Clintons who stole the party and made it for a time the Clinton Party that semi-politely allowed Obama to place a ''front'' face on it.

And finishing now I want you to know that you have haunted me now for hours. Your earlier comment ''Watch closely in the near future.'' keeps ringing in my head over these Iowa ferkups.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Trump will stomp all over anything the dems wind up bringing, including Commie-Bernie.

No doubt.

But if Bernie runs, the Dems will turn out in record numbers.

Mark my words.

originally posted by: pneumatikoi

originally posted by: network dude
They wouldn't be angry at Trump or Trump's people, we would love to run against Bernie. They would be angry at the DNC. Something about the enemy of my enemy........

Absolutely correct. The DNC and Bernie’s people are very much NOT the same camp. And oh boy would Bernie’s people love a Bernie vs Trump election.

That's exactly what I've been saying.

If Bernie gets the nomination, the Trumpers better turn out and vote, because I *guarantee* the Dems will turn out in droves...

Huge turnouts. Yuge. And the GOP will pay for it.

OK - I got a little carried away there.

originally posted by: pexx421
Ah. I see. You talk around in circles, never putting up facts of your own, and shifting the goal post whenever I provide facts and answers.

Facts? You havent' provided any facts yet. I'll wait...

As if you don’t know that the vast majority of western industrialized nations have gov healthcare that ranks far higher than ours but costs way less.

I know they make that claim, and I know it is as baseless as your 'facts'.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so that we can finally have a moratorium on the merits of Capitalism versus the merits of Socialism.

The terms are not mutually exclusive. We have plenty of socialistic enterprises and always will. With exception of labor those socialistic enterprises spend their funding on products from capitalistic companies. Not even Bernie is asking to change that. He will however go after undeserved profits on government contracts.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

Bernie is a Communist pretending to be a socialist.

In my humble opinion.

The thing is, he has some points that resonates with a lot of Americans because as much as Trump has bolstered the economy and absolutely crushed the less than optimized deals we had with foreign trade, the payoff to that hasn't hit enough "average" Americans that fall in the always democrat side of things just yet.

What Bernie is promising but could never deliver is equality to all in the United States. That could not only never be true, it's genuinely disturbing to think that any percentage of our population could think that based on one mans presidential power.

That said, and I don't mean to offend anyone, the majority of people coming out and supporting Bernie have no clue how politics, much less the world works. They are sold on the dream and disassociate the reality.

originally posted by: proximo
a reply to: network dude

I can understand why Bernie supporters might be pissed if he gets screwed out of the nomination again.

But - they really should not be too pissed, because he has literally no chance in the general election.

This is the main reason they are trying to screw him over - the DNC knows he has no chance and they want to have a chance - they aren't just doing it because they don't like the guy.

Only Bootyjudge beat him out in Iowa. Does that bode well for Democrats ? My dad used to say “ what’s 50% of nothing “.